The Biden - Harris Era.

[Peter Brown]

Does it?

We assume that's the case, but are "outcomes" always improved merely by more "competition"?

It’s the same natural law that capitalism (even messy, not-completely-fair capitalism) has lifted more people around the world out of poverty and improved more lives with better health deliverables. It doesn’t eliminate all bad outcomes; it merely enhances the overall one.

And Capitalism thrives with competition.

In my little industry we use a marketing line to every airport director: Allow us on your field to compete, for two reasons, we’ll reduce pricing and improve customer service.

Extrapolated to schools and other industries, it doesn’t preclude some unfortunate individual situations. But on the whole, most everyone’s life is better with competition. I’m a big believer in that.

As am I.

But you made an absolutist statement that I don't see you actually defending above.

"always".

That, I don't buy.

I also don't buy that unregulated capitalism reliably and "alway "improves outcomes"...nope, unregulated capitalism leads to really, really awful outcomes. Just as does "competition" if there are no societal restraints on such...wars are "competition".

BTW, how do you define "absolute school choice"?

I haven't heard that term before.

I’m not going to do a deep dive into the efficacy and results of the Denver school system which you claim has absolute school choice yet fails to improve. I just don’t have that time right now. I am skeptical of your claim though.

Competition improves everyone, always, in every vocation. This is a natural law not some Newt Gingrich political money shot. I don’t care what we’re discussing. Competition, provided its real competition, always improves outcomes.

Believe it or not I have to go work right now but wanted to answer this.

To me it’s funding the parents not the schools. Hand vouchers to parents. They select where to send their children. Schools compete to attract the vouchers (and kids). Schools can be regulated by the state to assure certain minimum standards, but the state would no longer be the school operators.

[kramerica.inc]

Pretty fun:

https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/stat ... 9291308034

Biden talking to you. Trump talking in words everyone understands, even elitists. Your disdain for "the great unwashed" is palpable.

Sure. That’s it.

What is your position on safer crack pipes?

That old, used up white guys sitting on their couches don't know anything about the problems facing communities of color.

And yet an old, used up white guy, sitting on his couch insists he DOES know about the problems facing communities of color.



https://www.newsweek.com/why-biden-admi ... es-1677439

By making sure we use the crack-pipe grant to help serve people who identify as "under-resourced populations" (such as racial, sexual, gender and ethnic minority groups), is that truly helping or hurting those communities in the long run by putting those stigmas on them?

[jhu72]

.. there is no solution to the school problem until you solve the problems at home. Food insecurity, physical insecurity, financial insecurity, health insecurity, the single parent problem, etc.

The free market isn't solving these. Your free market solution just shifts the money to people you think you like.

[MDlaxfan76]

Does it?

We assume that's the case, but are "outcomes" always improved merely by more "competition"?

It’s the same natural law that capitalism (even messy, not-completely-fair capitalism) has lifted more people around the world out of poverty and improved more lives with better health deliverables. It doesn’t eliminate all bad outcomes; it merely enhances the overall one.

And Capitalism thrives with competition.

In my little industry we use a marketing line to every airport director: Allow us on your field to compete, for two reasons, we’ll reduce pricing and improve customer service.

Extrapolated to schools and other industries, it doesn’t preclude some unfortunate individual situations. But on the whole, most everyone’s life is better with competition. I’m a big believer in that.

As am I.

But you made an absolutist statement that I don't see you actually defending above.

"always".

That, I don't buy.

I also don't buy that unregulated capitalism reliably and "alway "improves outcomes"...nope, unregulated capitalism leads to really, really awful outcomes. Just as does "competition" if there are no societal restraints on such...wars are "competition".

BTW, how do you define "absolute school choice"?

I haven't heard that term before.

I’m not going to do a deep dive into the efficacy and results of the Denver school system which you claim has absolute school choice yet fails to improve. I just don’t have that time right now. I am skeptical of your claim though.

Competition improves everyone, always, in every vocation. This is a natural law not some Newt Gingrich political money shot. I don’t care what we’re discussing. Competition, provided its real competition, always improves outcomes.

Believe it or not I have to go work right now but wanted to answer this.

To me it’s funding the parents not the schools. Hand vouchers to parents. They select where to send their children. Schools compete to attract the vouchers (and kids). Schools can be regulated by the state to assure certain minimum standards, but the state would no longer be the school operators.

Ok, so no public schools anymore.

Just public money.

How do you budget for this?
How do the schools budget?

Why does there need to be state regulation? Isn't "competition" sufficient?

What happens when schools go bankrupt? What happens to their students?

Denver has open enrollment meaning parents can decide where to send their kids to school, including out of district. Money does flow with that enrollment, but the schools receive funding for infrastructure and base level costs.

Competition.

Difference? it isn't a voucher to go to a "private" school.

Pretty good review of the research on vouchers: https://www.chalkbeat.org/2017/7/12/211 ... eally-says

Seems to me that biggest problem with these measurements is that the families most likely to seek them out and use them are also the families where the kid already had the best support system, the most likelihood of success. The impact is minimal.

[a fan]

It’s the same natural law that capitalism (even messy, not-completely-fair capitalism) has lifted more people around the world out of poverty and improved more lives with better health deliverables. It doesn’t eliminate all bad outcomes; it merely enhances the overall one.

And Capitalism thrives with competition.

In my little industry we use a marketing line to every airport director: Allow us on your field to compete, for two reasons, we’ll reduce pricing and improve customer service.

Extrapolated to schools and other industries, it doesn’t preclude some unfortunate individual situations. But on the whole, most everyone’s life is better with competition. I’m a big believer in that.

If this was remotely true, all those socialized nations that have no competition wouldn’t be cleaning our clocks in the K-12 arena.

How do you explain that? And they’re all unionized too.

So now what Pete? Competition doesn’t help in education at the school level.

Any other ideas?

[kramerica.inc]

Cleaning our clocks, how? How is that accurately measured when curriculums vary so much?
The Unions don't want schools to be different. Or compete. They want one-size/style education to make life easier for its members, not better for the students.

Competition does work. Depending on the implementation. It is working in our own school district. The local tech schools and magnet schools who have the better programs (CADD, sports medicine, veterinary, engineering, mathematics focuses) have wait-lists to get in. Not surprising, those are the schools that perform the best. Give parents a choice and you'll see what schools are succeeding.

In our county, they have a certain number of slots per program/school:
Step 1 - performance based criteria admittance for 50% of the slots per academic focus.
Step 2 - performance based criteria for lottery admittance for the remaining 50% of the slots.
Step 3 - waitlist.

[jhu72]

... just cherry picking students. What happens to the ones who don't apply or perform badly. You can always save a few, and that doesn't require special schools. We are trying to lift every student up.

[MDlaxfan76]

Cleaning our clocks, how? How is that accurately measured when curriculums vary so much?
The Unions don't want schools to be different. Or compete. They want one-size/style education to make life easier for its members, not better for the students.

Competition does work. Depending on the implementation. It is working in our own school district. The local tech schools and magnet schools who have the better programs (CADD, sports medicine, veterinary, engineering, mathematics focuses) have wait-lists to get in. Not surprising, those are the schools that perform the best. Give parents a choice and you'll see what schools are succeeding.

In our county, they have a certain number of slots per program/school:
Step 1 - performance based criteria admittance for 50% of the slots per academic focus.
Step 2 - performance based criteria for lottery admittance for the remaining 50% of the slots.
Step 3 - waitlist.

I think that's a bit of jumble, Kram.

Yes, by most any measure, at least any academic measure, quite a few countries out perform US schools.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... h-science/

I think that self-selection is a huge factor in "perform the best". Motivated students with motivated, supportive parents will do better than those without such social support systems encouraging academic ambitions.

Which doesn't mean that we shouldn't have magnet schools, trade schools, all sorts of "choice".

However, we also need to spend far more on making up for the social support system lacking in many families and neighborhoods. We need to do this federally, not by local tax jurisdiction.

I also think it's a quite wrong myth when you say Unions want one size fits all...that's simply and completely false.

[a fan]

... just cherry picking students. What happens to the ones who don't apply or perform badly. You can always save a few, and that doesn't require special schools. We are trying to lift every student up.

I’ve tried to get Kramerica to admit this is the game….school choice robs peter to pay Paul. And shocker—-Pauls doing just fine.

Yeah. We know. My kid will thrive in Denver’s school choice system, to the surprise of precisely no one. In other news, water is wet.

How’s Peter doing, Kramerica? Or does your county not have any poor kids?

[seacoaster]

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1491481962632069123

[cradleandshoot]

.. there is no solution to the school problem until you solve the problems at home. Food insecurity, physical insecurity, financial insecurity, health insecurity, the single parent problem, etc.

The free market isn't solving these. Your free market solution just shifts the money to people you think you like.

Holy smokes there Doc.. there sure is alot of insecurity in your world. Well, maybe not in YOUR WORLD. When your standing on top of your ivory tower you certainly get a birdseye view of what the common folk struggle with. The only insecurity in the 72 household is has the wine cellar been restocked and how much caviar is left.

[jhu72]

.. there is no solution to the school problem until you solve the problems at home. Food insecurity, physical insecurity, financial insecurity, health insecurity, the single parent problem, etc.

The free market isn't solving these. Your free market solution just shifts the money to people you think you like.

Holy smokes there Doc.. there sure is alot of insecurity in your world. Well, maybe not in YOUR WORLD. When your standing on top of your ivory tower you certainly get a birdseye view of what the common folk struggle with. The only insecurity in the 72 household is has the wine cellar been restocked and how much caviar is left.

... no caviar (don't care for it)
... Mrs. is in charge of wine. She hides it from me.

[cradleandshoot]

.. there is no solution to the school problem until you solve the problems at home. Food insecurity, physical insecurity, financial insecurity, health insecurity, the single parent problem, etc.

The free market isn't solving these. Your free market solution just shifts the money to people you think you like.

Holy smokes there Doc.. there sure is alot of insecurity in your world. Well, maybe not in YOUR WORLD. When your standing on top of your ivory tower you certainly get a birdseye view of what the common folk struggle with. The only insecurity in the 72 household is has the wine cellar been restocked and how much caviar is left.

... no caviar (don't care for it)
... Mrs. is in charge of wine. She hides it from me.

Thank you for the laugh Doc. We agree on practically nothing but i love your sense of humor. Do you even have a key for the wine cellar?? It is not caviar but i love raw fresh shucked oysters and clams.

[Peter Brown]

Cleaning our clocks, how? How is that accurately measured when curriculums vary so much?
The Unions don't want schools to be different. Or compete. They want one-size/style education to make life easier for its members, not better for the students.

Competition does work. Depending on the implementation. It is working in our own school district. The local tech schools and magnet schools who have the better programs (CADD, sports medicine, veterinary, engineering, mathematics focuses) have wait-lists to get in. Not surprising, those are the schools that perform the best. Give parents a choice and you'll see what schools are succeeding.

In our county, they have a certain number of slots per program/school:
Step 1 - performance based criteria admittance for 50% of the slots per academic focus.
Step 2 - performance based criteria for lottery admittance for the remaining 50% of the slots.
Step 3 - waitlist.

+1 solid post

[kramerica.inc]

Cleaning our clocks, how? How is that accurately measured when curriculums vary so much?
The Unions don't want schools to be different. Or compete. They want one-size/style education to make life easier for its members, not better for the students.

Competition does work. Depending on the implementation. It is working in our own school district. The local tech schools and magnet schools who have the better programs (CADD, sports medicine, veterinary, engineering, mathematics focuses) have wait-lists to get in. Not surprising, those are the schools that perform the best. Give parents a choice and you'll see what schools are succeeding.

In our county, they have a certain number of slots per program/school:
Step 1 - performance based criteria admittance for 50% of the slots per academic focus.
Step 2 - performance based criteria for lottery admittance for the remaining 50% of the slots.
Step 3 - waitlist.

I think that's a bit of jumble, Kram.

Yes, by most any measure, at least any academic measure, quite a few countries out perform US schools.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... h-science/

I think that self-selection is a huge factor in "perform the best". Motivated students with motivated, supportive parents will do better than those without such social support systems encouraging academic ambitions.

Which doesn't mean that we shouldn't have magnet schools, trade schools, all sorts of "choice".

However, we also need to spend far more on making up for the social support system lacking in many families and neighborhoods. We need to do this federally, not by local tax jurisdiction.

I also think it's a quite wrong myth when you say Unions want one size fits all...that's simply and completely false.

How does the government implement social support systems federally? Too cumbersome. The people in DC don't even know what the needs of people in every city/rural are, yet alone able to provide it efficiently.
Federal implementation of education just isn't feasible, or able to be even remotely efficient or successful, on a large scale.
IMO, the only model that even remotely comes close to being successful is one like NCLB. That provided very general outlines for use of federal funding and showing measured success. But having covered education for a newspaper during that program's heyday, even that was way too cumbersome, clumsy and inefficient. Good idea. Hard to implement. If you even want to start talking about federal implementations, the framework has to be even more general than NCLB. Want to improve education? The biggest challenge to US education is disparity in facilities on a district by district basis. Let the feds keep giving money. But only to cover school building, modernization, technology and construction costs. That would take a huge burden off the local school systems, and do more to help disadvantages/underserved kids than anything else. A construction and maintenance program is something the gov't COULD implement successfully and use markets of scale, and competition in it's federal contracting system already in place.

[MDlaxfan76]

Cleaning our clocks, how? How is that accurately measured when curriculums vary so much?
The Unions don't want schools to be different. Or compete. They want one-size/style education to make life easier for its members, not better for the students.

Competition does work. Depending on the implementation. It is working in our own school district. The local tech schools and magnet schools who have the better programs (CADD, sports medicine, veterinary, engineering, mathematics focuses) have wait-lists to get in. Not surprising, those are the schools that perform the best. Give parents a choice and you'll see what schools are succeeding.

In our county, they have a certain number of slots per program/school:
Step 1 - performance based criteria admittance for 50% of the slots per academic focus.
Step 2 - performance based criteria for lottery admittance for the remaining 50% of the slots.
Step 3 - waitlist.

I think that's a bit of jumble, Kram.

Yes, by most any measure, at least any academic measure, quite a few countries out perform US schools.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... h-science/

I think that self-selection is a huge factor in "perform the best". Motivated students with motivated, supportive parents will do better than those without such social support systems encouraging academic ambitions.

Which doesn't mean that we shouldn't have magnet schools, trade schools, all sorts of "choice".

However, we also need to spend far more on making up for the social support system lacking in many families and neighborhoods. We need to do this federally, not by local tax jurisdiction.

I also think it's a quite wrong myth when you say Unions want one size fits all...that's simply and completely false.

How does the government implement social support systems federally? Too cumbersome. The people in DC don't even know what the needs of people in every city/rural are, yet alone able to provide it efficiently.
Federal implementation of education just isn't feasible, or able to be even remotely efficient or successful, on a large scale.
IMO, the only model that even remotely comes close to being successful is one like NCLB. That provided very general outlines for use of federal funding and showing measured success. But having covered education for a newspaper during that program's heyday, even that was way too cumbersome, clumsy and inefficient. Good idea. Hard to implement. If you even want to start talking about federal implementations, the framework has to be even more general than NCLB. Want to improve education? The biggest challenge to US education is disparity in facilities on a district by district basis. Let the feds keep giving money. But only to cover school building, modernization, technology and construction costs. That would take a huge burden off the local school systems, and do more to help disadvantages/underserved kids than anything else. A construction and maintenance program is something the gov't COULD implement successfully and use markets of scale, and competition in it's federal contracting system already in place.

$ need to be federal, not administered...but need to take the financing of public education away from the dynamics of geography. Sounds like we agree on this.

[Peter Brown]

74 percent of NYC voters say crime is very serious problem in Big Apple: poll

Nearly three-quarters of New York City voters — 74 percent — think crime is a very serious problem, the highest ever recorded since the Quinnipiac College Poll first asked the question in 1999.

“This is a very high number. It’s eye-popping,” Quinnipiac Poll analyst Mary Snow told The Post.

“The number shows the urgency of the issue. The number is so different from what we’ve seen in the past.”

https://nypost.com/2022/02/09/74-percen ... s-problem/

November not far away….

[youthathletics]

74 percent of NYC voters say crime is very serious problem in Big Apple: poll

Nearly three-quarters of New York City voters — 74 percent — think crime is a very serious problem, the highest ever recorded since the Quinnipiac College Poll first asked the question in 1999.

“This is a very high number. It’s eye-popping,” Quinnipiac Poll analyst Mary Snow told The Post.

“The number shows the urgency of the issue. The number is so different from what we’ve seen in the past.”

https://nypost.com/2022/02/09/74-percen ... s-problem/

November not far away….

Mayor Adams laying it out there. https://twitter.com/nycmayor/status/149 ... 79785?s=21

[a fan]

To me it’s funding the parents not the schools. Hand vouchers to parents. They select where to send their children. Schools compete to attract the vouchers (and kids). Schools can be regulated by the state to assure certain minimum standards, but the state would no longer be the school operators.

Yeah, that's not what you mean. That's NEVER what Republicans mean.

What you mean to say is: we'll let the rich kids pick from the rich schools. And the poor kids pick from the poor schools. And then pat ourselves on the back for allowing "choice".

I'll know that you and Kramerica are serious about school choice when the MIAA are filled entirely with poor kids.....transportation and lunches all paid in full. Let the poor kids choose first, fellas, if you're REALLY serious about this stuff.

We all know that that's not what Republicans mean by "school choice".

Best part of filling all the private schools with poor kids? That means the rich kids pick last.

Guess where the rich kids will bus to, fellas? Republicans won't whine about nosebleed level taxes for schools anymore.

Where do I sign to get this?

[a fan]

74 percent of NYC voters say crime is very serious problem in Big Apple: poll

Nearly three-quarters of New York City voters — 74 percent — think crime is a very serious problem, the highest ever recorded since the Quinnipiac College Poll first asked the question in 1999.

“This is a very high number. It’s eye-popping,” Quinnipiac Poll analyst Mary Snow told The Post.

“The number shows the urgency of the issue. The number is so different from what we’ve seen in the past.”

https://nypost.com/2022/02/09/74-percen ... s-problem/

November not far away….

Great! Can't wait for your team to get in charge, and come up with ways to fix these problems.

Everyone? Get ready for Government to get a whole lot bigger this fall!