All things CoronaVirus

[Typical Lax Dad]

I believe this is now two JHU professionals discredited on this thread..given time, they will be considered a shithole university.

Makary is a pancreatic cancer surgeon. So while he's a doctor, he's not inside his expertise when it comes to Covid. He's gotten lots of criticism over the past two years:

During the COVID-19 pandemic, Makary has been an outspoken opponent of vaccine mandates, CDC policies, and restrictions at colleges and universities. He has been repeatedly criticized by infectious disease specialists for overstating the protection offered by previous COVID-19 infection and for making public health recommendations "beyond his area of expertise" that have been characterized as dubious and misleading.

Hanke is an economist. So even more out of his element. And he's a big time partisan.

TBD if their ideas hold up under scrutiny. Which isn't suppression or cancellation. Just honest discussion and debate.

Definitely not a coincidence that both seem to only show up inside the friendly confines of FNC. Where few critical questions will be asked.

My friend, whose wife works at the Hopkins Hospital, was hapoybto point me to an article that Makary penned in the Wall Street Journal that indicated that the USA would reach herd immunity by May of 2021 and of course he must right because the guy was from “Hopkins” and in was in the “WSJ”. I read it and told him the guy didn’t know what he was talking about and there is a reason why I don’t read the WSJ “OPINION” pages any longer. He thought I was crazy….He’s no different than Trump’s ortho guy from Stanford that was providing infectious disease expertise.

trump's guy at the FDA, now at pfizer, is just A....ok...with you ?

insane.

Phony is back in town I see. I see you enjoying that joint. Putting you back in timeout.

[Bart]

vaccine: a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

So, how did mdlaxfan get infected ? jhu72? others ?

oh, right, the snake oil spin........change what was on the FDA application.

"less mild", etc.....nowhere to be found

So, that "better call Saul" storyline about the Mesa Verde address being wrong was an inaccurate depiction of the details govt. agencies want to see in applications for approvals.

Ahh......what's a decimal point, or two. Just shut up, and take trumps fake "vaccine"

Yeah, got it Bart, thanks. Maryland isn't tracking infections of the vaccinated. Prove that they are ? nah don't.........we are all dug in. Remember, the Jand J vaccine is still being given, yes? That keep you out of the hospital, like mrna.

Why does mRNA spell out....MR. NA,,,,,,as in no....mr. no.

Fauci is 80 years old, but JHU72 goes after a collegue of the same age as being .......yikes. Keep on staying unsick, you vaxxed up people. Who else on these threads got covid, fully vaccinated. yikes. yup....they work. Keep the fraud lie, that "less sick" was being spun, prior to last summer? prove that such language exists? Oh well, we have supreme ct. justices that are spewing unfacts. insane.

C'mon. You need to come up with a new rant. How many times have you used this in the past few pages.

As many times as its brought up as the reason for the season..........vaccines don't prevent, they subdue....narrative.

Got it that posting videos and "articles", saying that the purpose of the shots are....to reduce...isn't the same rant. over and over. Cut me some slack, plenty of posts claiming, falsely, that "vaccines" were always set up to only reduce, not prevent.

Should I rant about natural immunity as being ........

exactly

carry on, geez

Yup. The fact that the neutralizing antibodies produced by the vaccine versus a strain of the virus several mutations ago do not prevent an infection is disappointing. While disappointing that fact does not make this the windmill of a "fake" vaccine. You are a smart guy and know absolutely that there is more to the immune response than neutralizing Abs. The fact that there is a robust T cell response from the vaccine that deadens the virulence of the response may not have been the original goal it is a huge benefit. You do not agree with that, which is your prerogative, but that is a false leader IMO.

You continue to beat this drum. I will continue to accept the limitations of this "real" vaccine in preventing severe disease by producing a robust immune response after the initial wane of neutralizing Abs.

I'd hate to have seen your response to the first Salk vaccine for polio.

[wgdsr]

Hospitals by their very definition are places where both viruses exist (sick people) and where people with immunocompromised conditions seek help. Of course employees should wear masks.

Oh....so masks do indeed work. Nice to know.

Schools are not hospitals. Workplaces are not hospitals. Restaurants are not hospitals. Christmas parties are not surgical centers.

The media has convinced too many of us that every American is a walking disease vector.

No. That would be scientists, Pete. Which is why surgeons scrub up and wear gloves and masks. And why brewers, for example, sanitize all their equipment before brewing...because bacteria is literally everywhere on planet Earth.

I thought you had pulled back on the trolling, Pete? I'm back to explaining things that we figured out in the 1880s to you. What gives?

the who made a delineation from hospitals and (other) real world situations for a reason in 2020. they still do, to this day.

why? because measuring how it works or doesn't doesn't happen in a lab. and clinical trials are too dangerous.

Masks don’t work. Those crazy Asians have been wearing them for years for nothing. What do they know. They should take them off….what have they got to lose?

exactly.

You know what doesn’t work?

what you said. i thought that was what we were doing?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Hospitals by their very definition are places where both viruses exist (sick people) and where people with immunocompromised conditions seek help. Of course employees should wear masks.

Oh....so masks do indeed work. Nice to know.

Schools are not hospitals. Workplaces are not hospitals. Restaurants are not hospitals. Christmas parties are not surgical centers.

The media has convinced too many of us that every American is a walking disease vector.

No. That would be scientists, Pete. Which is why surgeons scrub up and wear gloves and masks. And why brewers, for example, sanitize all their equipment before brewing...because bacteria is literally everywhere on planet Earth.

I thought you had pulled back on the trolling, Pete? I'm back to explaining things that we figured out in the 1880s to you. What gives?

the who made a delineation from hospitals and (other) real world situations for a reason in 2020. they still do, to this day.

why? because measuring how it works or doesn't doesn't happen in a lab. and clinical trials are too dangerous.

Masks don’t work. Those crazy Asians have been wearing them for years for nothing. What do they know. They should take them off….what have they got to lose?

exactly.

You know what doesn’t work?

what you said. i thought that was what we were doing?

Wearing a mask incorrectly doesn’t work. Wearing a gaiter doesn’t work, removing your mask to talk or sneeze doesn’t work…. So you are right, telling someone to wear a mask and they do it incorrectly or don’t comply, it doesn’t work. You need to study that?

[Typical Lax Dad]

I think you are missing the point....

For example. Someone like MD has had 3 shots of Moderna (if I understand correctly) went cruising the 7 seas, and got sick....fever, sore throat etc. If he were in his 80's he'd likely be admitted to the hospital, and of course they'd run a battery of tests, keeping him overnight quite possibly.....tying up a bed. They ALL are not unvaxxed in there.

You're missing the point...

The POINT is that the unvaccinated make up a large majority of COVID hospitalizations right now.

Hospitalization rates are much higher for the unvaccinated. Yes, I know people can still get COVID if vaccinated. Some of them end up in the hospital. Just nowhere near the same rate as the unvaxxed. My dad had it in August and was double vaxxed. Wasn't a fun week but he avoided the hospital and severe COVID.

We could reduce cases, hospitalizations, deaths, lack of hospital beds and surgical suites if people would just get vaccinated.

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid ... s-benefits
https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o5
https://time.com/6138566/pandemic-of-unvaccinated/
https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Docume ... inated.pdf

duh!

Look what I saw….thought of you:

https://twitter.com/richeisen/status/14 ... 72864?s=21

[youthathletics]

Hospitals by their very definition are places where both viruses exist (sick people) and where people with immunocompromised conditions seek help. Of course employees should wear masks.

Oh....so masks do indeed work. Nice to know.

Schools are not hospitals. Workplaces are not hospitals. Restaurants are not hospitals. Christmas parties are not surgical centers.

The media has convinced too many of us that every American is a walking disease vector.

No. That would be scientists, Pete. Which is why surgeons scrub up and wear gloves and masks. And why brewers, for example, sanitize all their equipment before brewing...because bacteria is literally everywhere on planet Earth.

I thought you had pulled back on the trolling, Pete? I'm back to explaining things that we figured out in the 1880s to you. What gives?

the who made a delineation from hospitals and (other) real world situations for a reason in 2020. they still do, to this day.

why? because measuring how it works or doesn't doesn't happen in a lab. and clinical trials are too dangerous.

Masks don’t work. Those crazy Asians have been wearing them for years for nothing. What do they know. They should take them off….what have they got to lose?

exactly.

You know what doesn’t work?

what you said. i thought that was what we were doing?

[youthathletics]

I think you are missing the point....

For example. Someone like MD has had 3 shots of Moderna (if I understand correctly) went cruising the 7 seas, and got sick....fever, sore throat etc. If he were in his 80's he'd likely be admitted to the hospital, and of course they'd run a battery of tests, keeping him overnight quite possibly.....tying up a bed. They ALL are not unvaxxed in there.

You're missing the point...

The POINT is that the unvaccinated make up a large majority of COVID hospitalizations right now.

Hospitalization rates are much higher for the unvaccinated. Yes, I know people can still get COVID if vaccinated. Some of them end up in the hospital. Just nowhere near the same rate as the unvaxxed. My dad had it in August and was double vaxxed. Wasn't a fun week but he avoided the hospital and severe COVID.

We could reduce cases, hospitalizations, deaths, lack of hospital beds and surgical suites if people would just get vaccinated.

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid ... s-benefits
https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o5
https://time.com/6138566/pandemic-of-unvaccinated/
https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Docume ... inated.pdf

duh!

Look what I saw….thought of you:

https://twitter.com/richeisen/status/14 ... 72864?s=21

[wgdsr]

Hospitals by their very definition are places where both viruses exist (sick people) and where people with immunocompromised conditions seek help. Of course employees should wear masks.

Oh....so masks do indeed work. Nice to know.

Schools are not hospitals. Workplaces are not hospitals. Restaurants are not hospitals. Christmas parties are not surgical centers.

The media has convinced too many of us that every American is a walking disease vector.

No. That would be scientists, Pete. Which is why surgeons scrub up and wear gloves and masks. And why brewers, for example, sanitize all their equipment before brewing...because bacteria is literally everywhere on planet Earth.

I thought you had pulled back on the trolling, Pete? I'm back to explaining things that we figured out in the 1880s to you. What gives?

the who made a delineation from hospitals and (other) real world situations for a reason in 2020. they still do, to this day.

why? because measuring how it works or doesn't doesn't happen in a lab. and clinical trials are too dangerous.

Masks don’t work. Those crazy Asians have been wearing them for years for nothing. What do they know. They should take them off….what have they got to lose?

exactly.

You know what doesn’t work?

what you said. i thought that was what we were doing?

Wearing a mask incorrectly doesn’t work. Wearing a gaiter doesn’t work, removing your mask to talk or sneeze doesn’t work…. So you are right, telling someone to wear a mask and they do it incorrectly or don’t comply, it doesn’t work. You need to study that?

i don't need a study. said about a year (and a half?) ago we won't get one. good speculation?

[runrussellrun]

vaccine: a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

So, how did mdlaxfan get infected ? jhu72? others ?

oh, right, the snake oil spin........change what was on the FDA application.

"less mild", etc.....nowhere to be found

So, that "better call Saul" storyline about the Mesa Verde address being wrong was an inaccurate depiction of the details govt. agencies want to see in applications for approvals.

Ahh......what's a decimal point, or two. Just shut up, and take trumps fake "vaccine"

Yeah, got it Bart, thanks. Maryland isn't tracking infections of the vaccinated. Prove that they are ? nah don't.........we are all dug in. Remember, the Jand J vaccine is still being given, yes? That keep you out of the hospital, like mrna.

Why does mRNA spell out....MR. NA,,,,,,as in no....mr. no.

Fauci is 80 years old, but JHU72 goes after a collegue of the same age as being .......yikes. Keep on staying unsick, you vaxxed up people. Who else on these threads got covid, fully vaccinated. yikes. yup....they work. Keep the fraud lie, that "less sick" was being spun, prior to last summer? prove that such language exists? Oh well, we have supreme ct. justices that are spewing unfacts. insane.

C'mon. You need to come up with a new rant. How many times have you used this in the past few pages.

As many times as its brought up as the reason for the season..........vaccines don't prevent, they subdue....narrative.

Got it that posting videos and "articles", saying that the purpose of the shots are....to reduce...isn't the same rant. over and over. Cut me some slack, plenty of posts claiming, falsely, that "vaccines" were always set up to only reduce, not prevent.

Should I rant about natural immunity as being ........

exactly

carry on, geez

Yup. The fact that the neutralizing antibodies produced by the vaccine versus a strain of the virus several mutations ago do not prevent an infection is disappointing. While disappointing that fact does not make this the windmill of a "fake" vaccine. You are a smart guy and know absolutely that there is more to the immune response than neutralizing Abs. The fact that there is a robust T cell response from the vaccine that deadens the virulence of the response may not have been the original goal it is a huge benefit. You do not agree with that, which is your prerogative, but that is a false leader IMO.

You continue to beat this drum. I will continue to accept the limitations of this "real" vaccine in preventing severe disease by producing a robust immune response after the initial wane of neutralizing Abs.

I'd hate to have seen your response to the first Salk vaccine for polio.

Apologize if I am embellishing this narrative, from the POTUSA on down to the group of "grave dancers" around these here parts........to literal FU's to this group, especially if they happen to get sick. For anything. You know, the mouthbreather, unvaxxed, regardless of prior infections.

I will continue to beat the drum, while folks like me, can't EAT food anywhere in DC, Boston, NYC.........b/c for tons or reasons, remain unvaccinated, millions got covid.......ignored. No "drum beat" for the grave dancers? spare us, how is THAT not repetitive.

[runrussellrun]

I believe this is now two JHU professionals discredited on this thread..given time, they will be considered a shithole university.

Makary is a pancreatic cancer surgeon. So while he's a doctor, he's not inside his expertise when it comes to Covid. He's gotten lots of criticism over the past two years:

During the COVID-19 pandemic, Makary has been an outspoken opponent of vaccine mandates, CDC policies, and restrictions at colleges and universities. He has been repeatedly criticized by infectious disease specialists for overstating the protection offered by previous COVID-19 infection and for making public health recommendations "beyond his area of expertise" that have been characterized as dubious and misleading.

Hanke is an economist. So even more out of his element. And he's a big time partisan.

TBD if their ideas hold up under scrutiny. Which isn't suppression or cancellation. Just honest discussion and debate.

Definitely not a coincidence that both seem to only show up inside the friendly confines of FNC. Where few critical questions will be asked.

My friend, whose wife works at the Hopkins Hospital, was hapoybto point me to an article that Makary penned in the Wall Street Journal that indicated that the USA would reach herd immunity by May of 2021 and of course he must right because the guy was from “Hopkins” and in was in the “WSJ”. I read it and told him the guy didn’t know what he was talking about and there is a reason why I don’t read the WSJ “OPINION” pages any longer. He thought I was crazy….He’s no different than Trump’s ortho guy from Stanford that was providing infectious disease expertise.

trump's guy at the FDA, now at pfizer, is just A....ok...with you ?

insane.

Phony is back in town I see. I see you enjoying that joint. Putting you back in timeout.

It's only a matter of tyme........don't waste energy thinking about "WHERE" you got it.....you just got it. b/c they work. Like the Hartford Civic center roofing system worked............but blame it on Jerry's "sugaree"

[Typical Lax Dad]

I think you are missing the point....

For example. Someone like MD has had 3 shots of Moderna (if I understand correctly) went cruising the 7 seas, and got sick....fever, sore throat etc. If he were in his 80's he'd likely be admitted to the hospital, and of course they'd run a battery of tests, keeping him overnight quite possibly.....tying up a bed. They ALL are not unvaxxed in there.

You're missing the point...

The POINT is that the unvaccinated make up a large majority of COVID hospitalizations right now.

Hospitalization rates are much higher for the unvaccinated. Yes, I know people can still get COVID if vaccinated. Some of them end up in the hospital. Just nowhere near the same rate as the unvaxxed. My dad had it in August and was double vaxxed. Wasn't a fun week but he avoided the hospital and severe COVID.

We could reduce cases, hospitalizations, deaths, lack of hospital beds and surgical suites if people would just get vaccinated.

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid ... s-benefits
https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o5
https://time.com/6138566/pandemic-of-unvaccinated/
https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Docume ... inated.pdf

duh!

Look what I saw….thought of you:

https://twitter.com/richeisen/status/14 ... 72864?s=21

I like her already!

[Typical Lax Dad]

United States

Coronavirus Cases:
77,493,697

Deaths:
924,517

Recovered:
47,557,914

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Docume ... inated.pdf

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://deadline.com/2022/02/four-omicr ... 25304/amp/

[a fan]

Herewith, Dr. Stefanos Kales of Harvard. I’ll wait to see which details of this doctor and professor we all find wanting, but let me first tell you what he’s saying:

Dr. Stefanos Kales, a professor of medicine at Harvard Medical school, told CNBC this week that the government made mistakes early on by choosing to value the opinions of infectious disease experts over all others during the early stages of the pandemic.

'I think what we saw is the danger of turning over public policy and public health recommendations to people who have had their careers exclusively focused on infectious diseases as opposed to public health in general,' he said.

Last month, he published an article on LinkedIn calling for pandemic-related measures to be focused on the vulnerable instead the population as a whole. While some people with comorbidities that put them at risk of serious complications from the virus still do need some safeguards, the average healthy, vaccinated, person is totally OK, he said.

'We badly need to allow the general public, particularly the young, to get back to normal life,' he wrote.

I agree with him, Pete. Now what? Vaccine is here for all school aged kids. I say get rid of masks and move on.....or reload PPP for the economic damage. I'd prefer the former, just like Kales.

But you understand that this doesn't mean that Kales is right, and I am right....and anyone who disagrees is wrong. It's his opinion. It's my opinion.

Couple thousand of your fellow Americans are dying a day from this thing.....with no "right" answer in the wings.

The previous "google research" I was rightly mocking wasn't someone giving an opinion, like Kales. It was a bunch of economists with an axe to grind. If someone as slow as I am can poke holes through their ridiculous definitions and methodologies....I hate to see what a specialist would do to that garbage.

[a fan]

Hospitals by their very definition are places where both viruses exist (sick people) and where people with immunocompromised conditions seek help. Of course employees should wear masks.

Oh....so masks do indeed work. Nice to know.

Schools are not hospitals. Workplaces are not hospitals. Restaurants are not hospitals. Christmas parties are not surgical centers.

The media has convinced too many of us that every American is a walking disease vector.

No. That would be scientists, Pete. Which is why surgeons scrub up and wear gloves and masks. And why brewers, for example, sanitize all their equipment before brewing...because bacteria is literally everywhere on planet Earth.

I thought you had pulled back on the trolling, Pete? I'm back to explaining things that we figured out in the 1880s to you. What gives?

the who made a delineation from hospitals and (other) real world situations for a reason in 2020. they still do, to this day.

https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease ... -use-masks

[youthathletics]

Hospitals by their very definition are places where both viruses exist (sick people) and where people with immunocompromised conditions seek help. Of course employees should wear masks.

Oh....so masks do indeed work. Nice to know.

Schools are not hospitals. Workplaces are not hospitals. Restaurants are not hospitals. Christmas parties are not surgical centers.

The media has convinced too many of us that every American is a walking disease vector.

No. That would be scientists, Pete. Which is why surgeons scrub up and wear gloves and masks. And why brewers, for example, sanitize all their equipment before brewing...because bacteria is literally everywhere on planet Earth.

I thought you had pulled back on the trolling, Pete? I'm back to explaining things that we figured out in the 1880s to you. What gives?

the who made a delineation from hospitals and (other) real world situations for a reason in 2020. they still do, to this day.

https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease ... -use-masks

the masks in schools must really feel violated, they are not treated nearly is well as their counterparts in hospitals. They masks in hospitals get to always have clean hands, no boogies, no dirt or cheeto powder, stored in a clean enviornment and not stuffed in a backpack...oh yea, and re-used daily. #MaskLivesMatter

[Peter Brown]

Herewith, Dr. Stefanos Kales of Harvard. I’ll wait to see which details of this doctor and professor we all find wanting, but let me first tell you what he’s saying:

Dr. Stefanos Kales, a professor of medicine at Harvard Medical school, told CNBC this week that the government made mistakes early on by choosing to value the opinions of infectious disease experts over all others during the early stages of the pandemic.

'I think what we saw is the danger of turning over public policy and public health recommendations to people who have had their careers exclusively focused on infectious diseases as opposed to public health in general,' he said.

Last month, he published an article on LinkedIn calling for pandemic-related measures to be focused on the vulnerable instead the population as a whole. While some people with comorbidities that put them at risk of serious complications from the virus still do need some safeguards, the average healthy, vaccinated, person is totally OK, he said.

'We badly need to allow the general public, particularly the young, to get back to normal life,' he wrote.

I agree with him, Pete. Now what? Vaccine is here for all school aged kids. I say get rid of masks and move on.....or reload PPP for the economic damage. I'd prefer the former, just like Kales.

But you understand that this doesn't mean that Kales is right, and I am right....and anyone who disagrees is wrong. It's his opinion. It's my opinion.

Couple thousand of your fellow Americans are dying a day from this thing.....with no "right" answer in the wings.

The previous "google research" I was rightly mocking wasn't someone giving an opinion, like Kales. It was a bunch of economists with an axe to grind. If someone as slow as I am can poke holes through their ridiculous definitions and methodologies....I hate to see what a specialist would do to that garbage.

You really didn’t poke any holes. Sorry to burst that bubble.

Hanke et al produced a document where they’re seeking comments on, especially by the mask and mandate lunatics; they’re practically begging others to review their work, in order to make it more robust. That’s the nature of excellence. Feedback and open dialogue, on the other hand, are what the left fears the most, for obvious reasons. See the coordinated efforts to pressure Spotify to only produce leftist drek, or on GoFundMe allowing the raise money for riots in Portland, but not for drivers in Ottawa.

It’s not really a worry though. As the left gets more fanatical, the votes in November simply tilt ever higher for Republicans.

[jhu72]

fairy tales can come true,
it can happen to you'
when you watch Faux News.

[Farfromgeneva]

vaccine: a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

So, how did mdlaxfan get infected ? jhu72? others ?

oh, right, the snake oil spin........change what was on the FDA application.

"less mild", etc.....nowhere to be found

So, that "better call Saul" storyline about the Mesa Verde address being wrong was an inaccurate depiction of the details govt. agencies want to see in applications for approvals.

Ahh......what's a decimal point, or two. Just shut up, and take trumps fake "vaccine"

Yeah, got it Bart, thanks. Maryland isn't tracking infections of the vaccinated. Prove that they are ? nah don't.........we are all dug in. Remember, the Jand J vaccine is still being given, yes? That keep you out of the hospital, like mrna.

Why does mRNA spell out....MR. NA,,,,,,as in no....mr. no.

Fauci is 80 years old, but JHU72 goes after a collegue of the same age as being .......yikes. Keep on staying unsick, you vaxxed up people. Who else on these threads got covid, fully vaccinated. yikes. yup....they work. Keep the fraud lie, that "less sick" was being spun, prior to last summer? prove that such language exists? Oh well, we have supreme ct. justices that are spewing unfacts. insane.

C'mon. You need to come up with a new rant. How many times have you used this in the past few pages.

As many times as its brought up as the reason for the season..........vaccines don't prevent, they subdue....narrative.

Got it that posting videos and "articles", saying that the purpose of the shots are....to reduce...isn't the same rant. over and over. Cut me some slack, plenty of posts claiming, falsely, that "vaccines" were always set up to only reduce, not prevent.

Should I rant about natural immunity as being ........

exactly

carry on, geez

Yup. The fact that the neutralizing antibodies produced by the vaccine versus a strain of the virus several mutations ago do not prevent an infection is disappointing. While disappointing that fact does not make this the windmill of a "fake" vaccine. You are a smart guy and know absolutely that there is more to the immune response than neutralizing Abs. The fact that there is a robust T cell response from the vaccine that deadens the virulence of the response may not have been the original goal it is a huge benefit. You do not agree with that, which is your prerogative, but that is a false leader IMO.

You continue to beat this drum. I will continue to accept the limitations of this "real" vaccine in preventing severe disease by producing a robust immune response after the initial wane of neutralizing Abs.

I'd hate to have seen your response to the first Salk vaccine for polio.

You’ve seen the drill long enough ago: have a theory/idea/position, find idiosyncratic, non wholistic, micro evidence and pound that trade until you’ve stuffed the consumer channel so full they turn it off.