All things CoronaVirus

[Typical Lax Dad]

Lot's of therapeutics in the pipeline, great. Way late though. Makes my point.

https://ir.alexion.com/news-releases/ne ... ultomirisr

They started in Spring of 2020. This is all old news. You ignored it.

Bleach and sunlight and HCQ were so much more interesting that the assumption was that no one was trying to actually develop therapeutics that had a real shot at working.

Then we got ivermectin...how many times did tech tell us that was the savior?

Companies have been working on it since Spring 2020…..Tech and the gang says that was too late…..too focused on vaccines. Everyone knows that therapeutics are the way out of a rapidly spreading, deadly infectious pandemic.

[tech37]

Lot's of therapeutics in the pipeline, great. Way late though. Makes my point.

https://ir.alexion.com/news-releases/ne ... ultomirisr

They started in Spring of 2020. This is all old news. You ignored it.

Bleach and sunlight and HCQ were so much more interesting that the assumption was that no one was trying to actually develop therapeutics that had a real shot at working.

Then we got ivermectin...how many times did tech tell us that was the savior?
How about never. Keep on pathetically lying

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

As sensible a discussion of the underlying biology! And simple enough to be for anyone.

Given his conservative political persuasion, I hope his message gets taken seriously within the vax skeptical crowd, as he presents exactly why vaccination still is important.

Thanks Red. One thing I have come to see now that I have had a change in perspective and have received my first vaccine is that name calling and stereotyping only make others dig in their heels, regardless of whether their reasoning for not getting vaccinated is selfish, rational, logical or otherwise. I see it on the news all the time and I've read it here on these boards.

Typically, those who should know better are the ones doing the stereotyping. Most of the name calling comes from those who comport themselves as the Enlightened Ones; those who aren't Under-Educated Trailer Trash Conspiracy Theorist Trump Supporters. If folks are as educated and intelligent as they purport, they should know a little something about human nature in this regard. Ridicule and/or stereotype another for their stance and they will typically become even more determined to hold to their viewpoint. Resentment dries to a very powerful cement. Does anyone really think they will get people to change their minds by casting these kinds of aspersions? It has no end result other than to divide people and keep them divided.

Stereotyping is also intellectually lazy, not to mention ignorant. How does anyone truly know why an individual makes the choices they do? I was reluctant to get vaccinated because I was wary of the possible side effects--short and long term. Plus I've never been big on doctors. I've had good health lo these 59 years and try to eat right and keep myself in relatively good shape and I thought that would be enough as long as I masked up and socially distanced when around others. But once I listened to this guy on the youtube clip spell it out, my reservations disappeared. In addition to the facts he clearly communicated, he spoke as an equal, not as one who was exasperated or one who condescended. He also spoke in layman's terms so I could grasp the principle of how vaccines work. As he said in the clip--covid isn't going anywhere. It will always be with us because of its particular characteristics and makeup.

All to say, I'm glad there are reasonable folks out there who are able to change minds in a factual, yet winsome manner.

[tech37]

As sensible a discussion of the underlying biology! And simple enough to be for anyone.

Given his conservative political persuasion, I hope his message gets taken seriously within the vax skeptical crowd, as he presents exactly why vaccination still is important.

Thanks Red. One thing I have come to see now that I have had a change in perspective and have received my first vaccine is that name calling and stereotyping only make others dig in their heels, regardless of whether their reasoning for not getting vaccinated is selfish, rational, logical or otherwise. I see it on the news all the time and I've read it here on these boards.

Typically, those who should know better are the ones doing the stereotyping. Most of the name calling comes from those who comport themselves as the Enlightened Ones; those who aren't Under-Educated Trailer Trash Conspiracy Theorist Trump Supporters. If folks are as educated and intelligent as they purport, they should know a little something about human nature in this regard. Ridicule and/or stereotype another for their stance and they will typically become even more determined to hold to their viewpoint. Resentment dries to a very powerful cement. Does anyone really think they will get people to change their minds by casting these kinds of aspersions? It has no end result other than to divide people and keep them divided.

Stereotyping is also intellectually lazy, not to mention ignorant. How does anyone truly know why an individual makes the choices they do? I was reluctant to get vaccinated because I was wary of the possible side effects--short and long term. Plus I've never been big on doctors. I've had good health lo these 59 years and try to eat right and keep myself in relatively good shape and I thought that would be enough as long as I masked up and socially distanced when around others. But once I listened to this guy on the youtube clip spell it out, my reservations disappeared. In addition to the facts he clearly communicated, he spoke as an equal, not as one who was exasperated or one who condescended. He also spoke in layman's terms so I could grasp the principle of how vaccines work. As he said in the clip--covid isn't going anywhere. It will always be with us because of its particular characteristics and makeup.

All to say, I'm glad there are reasonable folks out there who are able to change minds in a factual, yet winsome manner.

Excellent post ONW!

[MDlaxfan76]

Most recently.

I disagree with your almost immediate dismissal of Paxlovid before it has even been put to work and data can be reviewed. Your pessimistic POV may end up being correct but I certainly hope not. [/color][/b]

I'm not dismissing ANY drug. I'm with you----I hope they're wonderful, and have said so in the past. I have NO interest in any more of my fellow Americans dying.

But what I'm trying to tell you East Coast lot that things are different out this way. So when Old Salt links John Madden quotes as if I'm not working with these people on a daily basis--------truck drivers, orchardists, farmers, etc.------it tells me that he's forgotten where I live, and what I do for a living.

I"m now up to five dead. Five rural colleagues and/or friends.....dead from stubbornness. They didn't die from Covid, IMHO. They died from a mixture of social media and stubbornness. That's why I brought up Reagan, btw-----every one of these wonderful, hardcore, salt of the Earth conservatives are the people who run blood drives in their rural towns. Baked goods for HS trips. And 20+ years ago? They would have been out there, running a vaccine drive for their community.

Would've been six dead if my brother's best friend from HS didn't make it out of ICU around Thanksgiving. Staunch anti-vaxxer. Whole family is unvaxxed----five kids, all of them dependent on dad to put food on the table. Did he consider them when making his silly choices? F no. And, of course, he took the full range of treatments/advice the doctor had on hand when he arrived near-dead. Could he tell you what was in the drugs and treatments he received? Did he "do his research" on this care he received? F no. Hypocrisy that nearly killed him.

So yep------I'm angry, frustrated, tired, and freaking sad. And yep, it may come across as condescension....but when someone acts like a child, instead of the rational adult that you've known for years? You owe it to them to tell them they're not making any sense, and are acting like irresponsible children.

a fan, I'm sorry to hear this pandemic has become personal for you. That does add perspective.

And I'm sorry if this stuff gets me grumpy to others here....don't have too many outlets. I know everyone here has followed their Doc's orders when it comes to vaccines. I have no quarrel with anyone here.
Well, since you're replying to me and just to be accurate, I didn't follow any doctor's orders when I decided, all things considered, that vaxx would be best for me.

If I may, I'd like to add some personal perspective but from a more selfish angle (as in, looking out for #1). A while ago, you and I went back and forth re my doctor visit in Oct. I was trying to get an idea of what advice/decisions I could expect from him should I come down with Covid. When I asked about monoclonals, he said I would qualify based on age but based on my physical results (no brag, just fact ), I probably wouldn't be sick enough to qualify. I guess he thought he was making me feel better Seriously though, where would that leave me? I want treatment options to go home and wait this sh!t out with. Paxlovid is something I would hope to have as an option. Sans Pax, I would take Ivermectin and/or Fluvoxamine, based upon the years they've been utilized (I fully realize it would be off-label) and their safety records. Re the Merck pill, I would not feel very confident based on what I've read/heard.

I would love to see those options and more available for everyone, but as you know, charity begins at home.

Yes. I and I agree that these avenues need to be explored. I just wish that the availability of these treatments weren't leading to some folks choosing to not get vaccinated.....
I doubt that has anything to do with not getting vaccinated, they wouldn't anyway... just IMO.

[tech37]

Most recently.

I disagree with your almost immediate dismissal of Paxlovid before it has even been put to work and data can be reviewed. Your pessimistic POV may end up being correct but I certainly hope not. [/color][/b]

I'm not dismissing ANY drug. I'm with you----I hope they're wonderful, and have said so in the past. I have NO interest in any more of my fellow Americans dying.

But what I'm trying to tell you East Coast lot that things are different out this way. So when Old Salt links John Madden quotes as if I'm not working with these people on a daily basis--------truck drivers, orchardists, farmers, etc.------it tells me that he's forgotten where I live, and what I do for a living.

I"m now up to five dead. Five rural colleagues and/or friends.....dead from stubbornness. They didn't die from Covid, IMHO. They died from a mixture of social media and stubbornness. That's why I brought up Reagan, btw-----every one of these wonderful, hardcore, salt of the Earth conservatives are the people who run blood drives in their rural towns. Baked goods for HS trips. And 20+ years ago? They would have been out there, running a vaccine drive for their community.

Would've been six dead if my brother's best friend from HS didn't make it out of ICU around Thanksgiving. Staunch anti-vaxxer. Whole family is unvaxxed----five kids, all of them dependent on dad to put food on the table. Did he consider them when making his silly choices? F no. And, of course, he took the full range of treatments/advice the doctor had on hand when he arrived near-dead. Could he tell you what was in the drugs and treatments he received? Did he "do his research" on this care he received? F no. Hypocrisy that nearly killed him.

So yep------I'm angry, frustrated, tired, and freaking sad. And yep, it may come across as condescension....but when someone acts like a child, instead of the rational adult that you've known for years? You owe it to them to tell them they're not making any sense, and are acting like irresponsible children.

a fan, I'm sorry to hear this pandemic has become personal for you. That does add perspective.

And I'm sorry if this stuff gets me grumpy to others here....don't have too many outlets. I know everyone here has followed their Doc's orders when it comes to vaccines. I have no quarrel with anyone here.
Well, since you're replying to me and just to be accurate, I didn't follow any doctor's orders when I decided, all things considered, that vaxx would be best for me.

If I may, I'd like to add some personal perspective but from a more selfish angle (as in, looking out for #1). A while ago, you and I went back and forth re my doctor visit in Oct. I was trying to get an idea of what advice/decisions I could expect from him should I come down with Covid. When I asked about monoclonals, he said I would qualify based on age but based on my physical results (no brag, just fact ), I probably wouldn't be sick enough to qualify. I guess he thought he was making me feel better Seriously though, where would that leave me? I want treatment options to go home and wait this sh!t out with. Paxlovid is something I would hope to have as an option. Sans Pax, I would take Ivermectin and/or Fluvoxamine, based upon the years they've been utilized (I fully realize it would be off-label) and their safety records. Re the Merck pill, I would not feel very confident based on what I've read/heard.

I would love to see those options and more available for everyone, but as you know, charity begins at home.

Yes. I and I agree that these avenues need to be explored. I just wish that the availability of these treatments weren't leading to some folks choosing to not get vaccinated.....
I doubt that has anything to do with not getting vaccinated, they wouldn't anyway... just IMO.

Where did I come anywhere near claiming it was a panacea or "savior" in your words? Context... I was referring to home-treatment options which don't exist. Stop lying. It's a bad look for someone so self-righteous and moralizing.

[MDlaxfan76]

Most recently.

I disagree with your almost immediate dismissal of Paxlovid before it has even been put to work and data can be reviewed. Your pessimistic POV may end up being correct but I certainly hope not. [/color][/b]

I'm not dismissing ANY drug. I'm with you----I hope they're wonderful, and have said so in the past. I have NO interest in any more of my fellow Americans dying.

But what I'm trying to tell you East Coast lot that things are different out this way. So when Old Salt links John Madden quotes as if I'm not working with these people on a daily basis--------truck drivers, orchardists, farmers, etc.------it tells me that he's forgotten where I live, and what I do for a living.

I"m now up to five dead. Five rural colleagues and/or friends.....dead from stubbornness. They didn't die from Covid, IMHO. They died from a mixture of social media and stubbornness. That's why I brought up Reagan, btw-----every one of these wonderful, hardcore, salt of the Earth conservatives are the people who run blood drives in their rural towns. Baked goods for HS trips. And 20+ years ago? They would have been out there, running a vaccine drive for their community.

Would've been six dead if my brother's best friend from HS didn't make it out of ICU around Thanksgiving. Staunch anti-vaxxer. Whole family is unvaxxed----five kids, all of them dependent on dad to put food on the table. Did he consider them when making his silly choices? F no. And, of course, he took the full range of treatments/advice the doctor had on hand when he arrived near-dead. Could he tell you what was in the drugs and treatments he received? Did he "do his research" on this care he received? F no. Hypocrisy that nearly killed him.

So yep------I'm angry, frustrated, tired, and freaking sad. And yep, it may come across as condescension....but when someone acts like a child, instead of the rational adult that you've known for years? You owe it to them to tell them they're not making any sense, and are acting like irresponsible children.

a fan, I'm sorry to hear this pandemic has become personal for you. That does add perspective.

And I'm sorry if this stuff gets me grumpy to others here....don't have too many outlets. I know everyone here has followed their Doc's orders when it comes to vaccines. I have no quarrel with anyone here.
Well, since you're replying to me and just to be accurate, I didn't follow any doctor's orders when I decided, all things considered, that vaxx would be best for me.

If I may, I'd like to add some personal perspective but from a more selfish angle (as in, looking out for #1). A while ago, you and I went back and forth re my doctor visit in Oct. I was trying to get an idea of what advice/decisions I could expect from him should I come down with Covid. When I asked about monoclonals, he said I would qualify based on age but based on my physical results (no brag, just fact ), I probably wouldn't be sick enough to qualify. I guess he thought he was making me feel better Seriously though, where would that leave me? I want treatment options to go home and wait this sh!t out with. Paxlovid is something I would hope to have as an option. Sans Pax, I would take Ivermectin and/or Fluvoxamine, based upon the years they've been utilized (I fully realize it would be off-label) and their safety records. Re the Merck pill, I would not feel very confident based on what I've read/heard.

I would love to see those options and more available for everyone, but as you know, charity begins at home.

Yes. I and I agree that these avenues need to be explored. I just wish that the availability of these treatments weren't leading to some folks choosing to not get vaccinated.....
I doubt that has anything to do with not getting vaccinated, they wouldn't anyway... just IMO.

Where did I come anywhere near claiming it was a panacea or "savior" in your words? Context... I was referring to home-treatment options which don't exist. Stop lying. It's a bad look for someone so self-righteous and moralizing.

therapeutics tech, not just ivermectin...but we had a long back and forth about Brett Weinstein who was hot and bothered on ivermectin. And Weinstein's promotion of ivermectin was exactly what I was objecting to.

My view has consistently been that I want the scientists to be successful in developing effective and safe therapeutics and proving that they work and are safe through rigorous trials with repeatable processes and oversight. I want them to be approved by the appropriate agencies.

By contrast, I don't want any unproven or ineffective "therapies" being promoted as having "promise" or, even worse, that they are 'safe' for off label use because they've been used for other issues. I don't want any touting of therapies that are not proven by the appropriate regulators.

That view is in direct contrast to your own.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

As sensible a discussion of the underlying biology! And simple enough to be for anyone.

Given his conservative political persuasion, I hope his message gets taken seriously within the vax skeptical crowd, as he presents exactly why vaccination still is important.

Thanks Red. One thing I have come to see now that I have had a change in perspective and have received my first vaccine is that name calling and stereotyping only make others dig in their heels, regardless of whether their reasoning for not getting vaccinated is selfish, rational, logical or otherwise. I see it on the news all the time and I've read it here on these boards.

Typically, those who should know better are the ones doing the stereotyping. Most of the name calling comes from those who comport themselves as the Enlightened Ones; those who aren't Under-Educated Trailer Trash Conspiracy Theorist Trump Supporters. If folks are as educated and intelligent as they purport, they should know a little something about human nature in this regard. Ridicule and/or stereotype another for their stance and they will typically become even more determined to hold to their viewpoint. Resentment dries to a very powerful cement. Does anyone really think they will get people to change their minds by casting these kinds of aspersions? It has no end result other than to divide people and keep them divided.

Stereotyping is also intellectually lazy, not to mention ignorant. How does anyone truly know why an individual makes the choices they do? I was reluctant to get vaccinated because I was wary of the possible side effects--short and long term. Plus I've never been big on doctors. I've had good health lo these 59 years and try to eat right and keep myself in relatively good shape and I thought that would be enough as long as I masked up and socially distanced when around others. But once I listened to this guy on the youtube clip spell it out, my reservations disappeared. In addition to the facts he clearly communicated, he spoke as an equal, not as one who was exasperated or one who condescended. He also spoke in layman's terms so I could grasp the principle of how vaccines work. As he said in the clip--covid isn't going anywhere. It will always be with us because of its particular characteristics and makeup.

All to say, I'm glad there are reasonable folks out there who are able to change minds in a factual, yet winsome manner.

Excellent post ONW!

Thanks, tech.

[Peter Brown]

Most recently.

I disagree with your almost immediate dismissal of Paxlovid before it has even been put to work and data can be reviewed. Your pessimistic POV may end up being correct but I certainly hope not. [/color][/b]

I'm not dismissing ANY drug. I'm with you----I hope they're wonderful, and have said so in the past. I have NO interest in any more of my fellow Americans dying.

But what I'm trying to tell you East Coast lot that things are different out this way. So when Old Salt links John Madden quotes as if I'm not working with these people on a daily basis--------truck drivers, orchardists, farmers, etc.------it tells me that he's forgotten where I live, and what I do for a living.

I"m now up to five dead. Five rural colleagues and/or friends.....dead from stubbornness. They didn't die from Covid, IMHO. They died from a mixture of social media and stubbornness. That's why I brought up Reagan, btw-----every one of these wonderful, hardcore, salt of the Earth conservatives are the people who run blood drives in their rural towns. Baked goods for HS trips. And 20+ years ago? They would have been out there, running a vaccine drive for their community.

Would've been six dead if my brother's best friend from HS didn't make it out of ICU around Thanksgiving. Staunch anti-vaxxer. Whole family is unvaxxed----five kids, all of them dependent on dad to put food on the table. Did he consider them when making his silly choices? F no. And, of course, he took the full range of treatments/advice the doctor had on hand when he arrived near-dead. Could he tell you what was in the drugs and treatments he received? Did he "do his research" on this care he received? F no. Hypocrisy that nearly killed him.

So yep------I'm angry, frustrated, tired, and freaking sad. And yep, it may come across as condescension....but when someone acts like a child, instead of the rational adult that you've known for years? You owe it to them to tell them they're not making any sense, and are acting like irresponsible children.

a fan, I'm sorry to hear this pandemic has become personal for you. That does add perspective.

And I'm sorry if this stuff gets me grumpy to others here....don't have too many outlets. I know everyone here has followed their Doc's orders when it comes to vaccines. I have no quarrel with anyone here.
Well, since you're replying to me and just to be accurate, I didn't follow any doctor's orders when I decided, all things considered, that vaxx would be best for me.

If I may, I'd like to add some personal perspective but from a more selfish angle (as in, looking out for #1). A while ago, you and I went back and forth re my doctor visit in Oct. I was trying to get an idea of what advice/decisions I could expect from him should I come down with Covid. When I asked about monoclonals, he said I would qualify based on age but based on my physical results (no brag, just fact ), I probably wouldn't be sick enough to qualify. I guess he thought he was making me feel better Seriously though, where would that leave me? I want treatment options to go home and wait this sh!t out with. Paxlovid is something I would hope to have as an option. Sans Pax, I would take Ivermectin and/or Fluvoxamine, based upon the years they've been utilized (I fully realize it would be off-label) and their safety records. Re the Merck pill, I would not feel very confident based on what I've read/heard.

I would love to see those options and more available for everyone, but as you know, charity begins at home.

Yes. I and I agree that these avenues need to be explored. I just wish that the availability of these treatments weren't leading to some folks choosing to not get vaccinated.....
I doubt that has anything to do with not getting vaccinated, they wouldn't anyway... just IMO.

Where did I come anywhere near claiming it was a panacea or "savior" in your words? Context... I was referring to home-treatment options which don't exist. Stop lying. It's a bad look for someone so self-righteous and moralizing.

therapeutics tech, not just ivermectin...but we had a long back and forth about Brett Weinstein who was hot and bothered on ivermectin. And Weinstein's promotion of ivermectin was exactly what I was objecting to.

My view has consistently been that I want the scientists to be successful in developing effective and safe therapeutics and proving that they work and are safe through rigorous trials with repeatable processes and oversight. I want them to be approved by the appropriate agencies.

By contrast, I don't want any unproven or ineffective "therapies" being promoted as having "promise" or, even worse, that they are 'safe' for off label use because they've been used for other issues. I don't want any touting of therapies that are not proven by the appropriate regulators.

That view is in direct contrast to your own.

Japan's Kowa says ivermectin showed 'antiviral effect' against Omicron in research

https://www.reuters.com/business/health ... 022-01-31/

[runrussellrun]

Small

[tech37]

Most recently.

I disagree with your almost immediate dismissal of Paxlovid before it has even been put to work and data can be reviewed. Your pessimistic POV may end up being correct but I certainly hope not. [/color][/b]

I'm not dismissing ANY drug. I'm with you----I hope they're wonderful, and have said so in the past. I have NO interest in any more of my fellow Americans dying.

But what I'm trying to tell you East Coast lot that things are different out this way. So when Old Salt links John Madden quotes as if I'm not working with these people on a daily basis--------truck drivers, orchardists, farmers, etc.------it tells me that he's forgotten where I live, and what I do for a living.

I"m now up to five dead. Five rural colleagues and/or friends.....dead from stubbornness. They didn't die from Covid, IMHO. They died from a mixture of social media and stubbornness. That's why I brought up Reagan, btw-----every one of these wonderful, hardcore, salt of the Earth conservatives are the people who run blood drives in their rural towns. Baked goods for HS trips. And 20+ years ago? They would have been out there, running a vaccine drive for their community.

Would've been six dead if my brother's best friend from HS didn't make it out of ICU around Thanksgiving. Staunch anti-vaxxer. Whole family is unvaxxed----five kids, all of them dependent on dad to put food on the table. Did he consider them when making his silly choices? F no. And, of course, he took the full range of treatments/advice the doctor had on hand when he arrived near-dead. Could he tell you what was in the drugs and treatments he received? Did he "do his research" on this care he received? F no. Hypocrisy that nearly killed him.

So yep------I'm angry, frustrated, tired, and freaking sad. And yep, it may come across as condescension....but when someone acts like a child, instead of the rational adult that you've known for years? You owe it to them to tell them they're not making any sense, and are acting like irresponsible children.

a fan, I'm sorry to hear this pandemic has become personal for you. That does add perspective.

And I'm sorry if this stuff gets me grumpy to others here....don't have too many outlets. I know everyone here has followed their Doc's orders when it comes to vaccines. I have no quarrel with anyone here.
Well, since you're replying to me and just to be accurate, I didn't follow any doctor's orders when I decided, all things considered, that vaxx would be best for me.

If I may, I'd like to add some personal perspective but from a more selfish angle (as in, looking out for #1). A while ago, you and I went back and forth re my doctor visit in Oct. I was trying to get an idea of what advice/decisions I could expect from him should I come down with Covid. When I asked about monoclonals, he said I would qualify based on age but based on my physical results (no brag, just fact ), I probably wouldn't be sick enough to qualify. I guess he thought he was making me feel better Seriously though, where would that leave me? I want treatment options to go home and wait this sh!t out with. Paxlovid is something I would hope to have as an option. Sans Pax, I would take Ivermectin and/or Fluvoxamine, based upon the years they've been utilized (I fully realize it would be off-label) and their safety records. Re the Merck pill, I would not feel very confident based on what I've read/heard.

I would love to see those options and more available for everyone, but as you know, charity begins at home.

Yes. I and I agree that these avenues need to be explored. I just wish that the availability of these treatments weren't leading to some folks choosing to not get vaccinated.....
I doubt that has anything to do with not getting vaccinated, they wouldn't anyway... just IMO.

Where did I come anywhere near claiming it was a panacea or "savior" in your words? Context... I was referring to home-treatment options which don't exist. Stop lying. It's a bad look for someone so self-righteous and moralizing.

therapeutics tech, not just ivermectin...but we had a long back and forth about Brett Weinstein who was hot and bothered on ivermectin. And Weinstein's promotion of ivermectin was exactly what I was objecting to.

My view has consistently been that I want the scientists to be successful in developing effective and safe therapeutics and proving that they work and are safe through rigorous trials with repeatable processes and oversight. I want them to be approved by the appropriate agencies.

By contrast, I don't want any unproven or ineffective "therapies" being promoted as having "promise" or, even worse, that they are 'safe' for off label use because they've been used for other issues. I don't want any touting of therapies that are not proven by the appropriate regulators.
Based on your immutable stance re unproven effectiveness and safety, it must have been awful trying to decide if you should take the novel Covid vaccine or not. Poor guy...

That view is in direct contrast to your own.

[MDlaxfan76]

Most recently.

I disagree with your almost immediate dismissal of Paxlovid before it has even been put to work and data can be reviewed. Your pessimistic POV may end up being correct but I certainly hope not. [/color][/b]

I'm not dismissing ANY drug. I'm with you----I hope they're wonderful, and have said so in the past. I have NO interest in any more of my fellow Americans dying.

But what I'm trying to tell you East Coast lot that things are different out this way. So when Old Salt links John Madden quotes as if I'm not working with these people on a daily basis--------truck drivers, orchardists, farmers, etc.------it tells me that he's forgotten where I live, and what I do for a living.

I"m now up to five dead. Five rural colleagues and/or friends.....dead from stubbornness. They didn't die from Covid, IMHO. They died from a mixture of social media and stubbornness. That's why I brought up Reagan, btw-----every one of these wonderful, hardcore, salt of the Earth conservatives are the people who run blood drives in their rural towns. Baked goods for HS trips. And 20+ years ago? They would have been out there, running a vaccine drive for their community.

Would've been six dead if my brother's best friend from HS didn't make it out of ICU around Thanksgiving. Staunch anti-vaxxer. Whole family is unvaxxed----five kids, all of them dependent on dad to put food on the table. Did he consider them when making his silly choices? F no. And, of course, he took the full range of treatments/advice the doctor had on hand when he arrived near-dead. Could he tell you what was in the drugs and treatments he received? Did he "do his research" on this care he received? F no. Hypocrisy that nearly killed him.

So yep------I'm angry, frustrated, tired, and freaking sad. And yep, it may come across as condescension....but when someone acts like a child, instead of the rational adult that you've known for years? You owe it to them to tell them they're not making any sense, and are acting like irresponsible children.

a fan, I'm sorry to hear this pandemic has become personal for you. That does add perspective.

And I'm sorry if this stuff gets me grumpy to others here....don't have too many outlets. I know everyone here has followed their Doc's orders when it comes to vaccines. I have no quarrel with anyone here.
Well, since you're replying to me and just to be accurate, I didn't follow any doctor's orders when I decided, all things considered, that vaxx would be best for me.

If I may, I'd like to add some personal perspective but from a more selfish angle (as in, looking out for #1). A while ago, you and I went back and forth re my doctor visit in Oct. I was trying to get an idea of what advice/decisions I could expect from him should I come down with Covid. When I asked about monoclonals, he said I would qualify based on age but based on my physical results (no brag, just fact ), I probably wouldn't be sick enough to qualify. I guess he thought he was making me feel better Seriously though, where would that leave me? I want treatment options to go home and wait this sh!t out with. Paxlovid is something I would hope to have as an option. Sans Pax, I would take Ivermectin and/or Fluvoxamine, based upon the years they've been utilized (I fully realize it would be off-label) and their safety records. Re the Merck pill, I would not feel very confident based on what I've read/heard.

I would love to see those options and more available for everyone, but as you know, charity begins at home.

Yes. I and I agree that these avenues need to be explored. I just wish that the availability of these treatments weren't leading to some folks choosing to not get vaccinated.....
I doubt that has anything to do with not getting vaccinated, they wouldn't anyway... just IMO.

Where did I come anywhere near claiming it was a panacea or "savior" in your words? Context... I was referring to home-treatment options which don't exist. Stop lying. It's a bad look for someone so self-righteous and moralizing.

therapeutics tech, not just ivermectin...but we had a long back and forth about Brett Weinstein who was hot and bothered on ivermectin. And Weinstein's promotion of ivermectin was exactly what I was objecting to.

My view has consistently been that I want the scientists to be successful in developing effective and safe therapeutics and proving that they work and are safe through rigorous trials with repeatable processes and oversight. I want them to be approved by the appropriate agencies.

By contrast, I don't want any unproven or ineffective "therapies" being promoted as having "promise" or, even worse, that they are 'safe' for off label use because they've been used for other issues. I don't want any touting of therapies that are not proven by the appropriate regulators.
Based on your immutable stance re unproven effectiveness and safety, it must have been awful trying to decide if you should take the novel Covid vaccine or not. Poor guy...

That view is in direct contrast to your own.

Not in the slightest, the studies were on very large populations and the data was quite convincing on both safety and effectiveness. Reputably performed and reviewed. I did not have a panacea objective for the vaccine, given indeed the novel aspects of the virus, but it was clearly a major first step in reducing risk. I expected ongoing work on the vaccines, potential boosters, and of course attention to any side effects, whether short or long term...that's the process. But when weighing the clear risks posed with catching Alpha, especially for my age group and older, it was a huge relief to have a measure of protection with such tiny risk set from taking the vaccine. (looks now to be well within placebo range).

So, getting my 85 year old mom to have some degree of protection was the top priority, my age group coming later, and later still my son...and of course all of our other family and friends, and the community at large.

I'm not surprised that boosters have and will be necessary going forward, it's extremely rare to have a one and done vaccine for any virus, and certainly this one has characteristics that enable a lot of variant evolution. I knew much less about this area of science two years ago, but I've paid attention since then...to those who are actually experts in this specific area, not "some guy of the internet" degrees or no degrees. And I trust my own doctors to have their heads screwed on straight to tell me if there was any reason I, individually, should be concerned about getting vaccinated. Quite the opposite was the case. It was strongly recommended. Even more so for my brother in law with Type II diabetes and even more so for my mom and mother in law.

Easy decision.

And it was an easy decision for my now 28 year old son...he confessed that he was planning to delay getting the booster as he'd not enjoyed the two day reactions he'd had to the shots, but as Omicron began to explode, he got it done.

We've now had Omicron as well and definitely are glad to have been vaccinated and boosted and therefore at dramatically lower risk of severe outcomes.

Meanwhile, the unvaccinated have clogged the healthcare system, with all sorts of costs to all of the rest of us.

To be clear once again, I'm very enthusiastic about the prospect of therapeutics that can be taken at home either to prevent infection or to dramatically reduce hospitalization rate...as long as they've been developed and tested rigorously before they get touted. No snake oil.

The good news is that there may well be some in the pipeline. Like the vaccines, let's hope they do prove to be safe and effective.

[jhu72]

Hey guys, you'll by happy to hear that since I came down with an Omicron Cold a month ago, my cat allergy has disappeared. How cool is that?

[tech37]

Meanwhile, the unvaccinated have clogged the healthcare system, with all sorts of costs to all of the rest of us.

Exterminate them

[MDlaxfan76]

Meanwhile, the unvaccinated have clogged the healthcare system, with all sorts of costs to all of the rest of us.

Exterminate them

[Farfromgeneva]

Hey guys, you'll by happy to hear that since I came down with an Omicron Cold a month ago, my cat allergy has disappeared. How cool is that?

I’m still avoiding the Omi because I’ve been told you lose your taste for meat for like 6-9 months. Death might be a better option that recovery given that.

[PizzaSnake]

“It’s just a flesh wound.”

https://wpde.com/amp/news/local/i-will- ... y-hospital

[PizzaSnake]

'CLAIM
the COVID-19 vaccines are experimental and ineffective; “natural immunity is superior to the vaccine induced immunity”; vaccine-induced spike protein is dangerous, causes serious side effects; “Omicron is a mild variant. It is absolutely able to escape prior vaccination”
VERDICT

SOURCE: Robert Malone, The Joe Rogan Experience, 31 Dec. 2021

DETAILS
Inaccurate: COVID-19 vaccines aren’t experimental. They demonstrated their efficacy and safety in clinical trials before receiving authorization.
Unsupported: No scientific evidence suggests that the spike protein generated by vaccination causes any harm. Large clinical trials found no evidence that hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin are effective at preventing or treating COVID-19.
Misleading: Contrary to Malone’s claims, COVID-19 vaccines have a high safety profile, and remain effective against severe illness caused by the Omicron variant; a booster dose enhances and prolongs protection."

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/ ... y-podcast/

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Meanwhile, the unvaccinated have clogged the healthcare system, with all sorts of costs to all of the rest of us.

What are your thoughts on people who clog the healthcare system for other reasons--like poor nutrition or lack of exercise, for example?

[Peter Brown]

Meanwhile, the unvaccinated have clogged the healthcare system, with all sorts of costs to all of the rest of us.

What are your thoughts on people who clog the healthcare system for other reasons--like poor nutrition or lack of exercise, for example?

Data show that 75% of Covid deaths in America have occurred in obese individuals.