All things CoronaVirus

[Typical Lax Dad]

I see that Covid vaccine zealotry has raised it's ugly head again.

First of all, we lost my bro-in-law, a victim of lymphoma a few years ago. It was a systemic infection, post bone marrow transplant, not lymphoma that did him in. So I know full well how the immune system is compromised following these kinds of operations. Knowing him well, my b-i-l would have accepted any vaccination updates (and probably did, I would need to ask my sister) that his doctors would have recommended...he was that sort of guy. But that's not the point, is it? The patient in Boston feels/thinks differently.

The Boston hospital my well have a policy but that is based upon recommendation, possibly mandatory requirement, but not law.

“Post any transplant, kidney, heart whatever, your immune system is shut off. The flu could kill you, a cold could kill you, Covid could kill you,” said Dr Arthur Caplan, the head of medical ethics at NYU Grossman School of Medicine, told CBS Boston.

Hypothetically... If I'm the Covid vaccine-hesitant patient and I'm considering a cost/benefit analysis and understand that anything might kill me, even a common cold, that fact could certainly make me less likely to take the vaccine, not more. Considering the patient's anti-Covid-vaxx justification, in his mind, why do the vaccine when the chances that something common, that I'm not going to be vaccinated against might do me in anyway. He will accept the risk of passing on the vaccine, based on his obviously strong feelings and clear conscience.

“The organs are scarce: we are not going to distribute them to someone who has a poor chance of living when others who are vaccinated have a better chance post-surgery of surviving.”

No one has a problem with the statement above? Does the Hippocratic Oath need to be mentioned again?

This patient needs timely care and has already been given "prioritized" status (whatever that means at this hospital). Because he doesn't wish to follow the rules, having weighed the risks and his conscience to make a personal healthcare decision, the hospital pulls him out of line in order to give his "prioritized" spot to someone who doesn't share his vaxx-hesitancy and follows the rules. I'm no lawyer of course, but IMO, it seems a case for discrimination could be made.

I hope this guy finds another hospital that will be more tolerant/compromising, considering his needs, and in time.

He needs a heart transplant….so world class transplant team says it is safer get vaccinated and get a heart transplant or if you don’t get vaccinated you get no heart transplant….What does Joe Rogan say? Maybe Carney Hospital will do it.

[MDlaxfan76]

I see that Covid vaccine zealotry has raised it's ugly head again.

First of all, we lost my bro-in-law, a victim of lymphoma a few years ago. It was a systemic infection, post bone marrow transplant, not lymphoma that did him in. So I know full well how the immune system is compromised following these kinds of operations. Knowing him well, my b-i-l would have accepted any vaccination updates (and probably did, I would need to ask my sister) that his doctors would have recommended...he was that sort of guy. But that's not the point, is it? The patient in Boston feels/thinks differently.

The Boston hospital my well have a policy but that is based upon recommendation, possibly mandatory requirement, but not law.

“Post any transplant, kidney, heart whatever, your immune system is shut off. The flu could kill you, a cold could kill you, Covid could kill you,” said Dr Arthur Caplan, the head of medical ethics at NYU Grossman School of Medicine, told CBS Boston.

Hypothetically... If I'm the Covid vaccine-hesitant patient and I'm considering a cost/benefit analysis and understand that anything might kill me, even a common cold, that fact could certainly make me less likely to take the vaccine, not more. Considering the patient's anti-Covid-vaxx justification, in his mind, why do the vaccine when the chances that something common, that I'm not going to be vaccinated against might do me in anyway. He will accept the risk of passing on the vaccine, based on his obviously strong feelings and clear conscience.

“The organs are scarce: we are not going to distribute them to someone who has a poor chance of living when others who are vaccinated have a better chance post-surgery of surviving.”

No one has a problem with the statement above? Does the Hippocratic Oath need to be mentioned again?

This patient needs timely care and has already been given "prioritized" status (whatever that means at this hospital). Because he doesn't wish to follow the rules, having weighed the risks and his conscience to make a personal healthcare decision, the hospital pulls him out of line in order to give his "prioritized" spot to someone who doesn't share his vaxx-hesitancy and follows the rules. I'm no lawyer of course, but IMO, it seems a case for discrimination could be made.

I hope this guy finds another hospital that will be more tolerant/compromising, considering his needs, and in time.

The whole business is troubling, of course, and I think we can all feel for the guy at some level. But (serious question, because I don't know) isn't this what hospitals in the transplant business do: make decisions about an exceedingly finite resource being matched with a proper recipient? No drunks or drug addicts allowed. Certainly likely that other medical and personal issues are disqualifying. Not sure how this is different except for the extremely political environment in which all things vaccination are now discussed.

Sorry about your brother-in-law; hope your sister and her family are doing OK.

+1

Prioritization of the very scarce resource of organs is a complicated multi-factor process including when one registered, the acuteness of the need to survival timing, the appropriateness of a particular organ to recipient (children do better with children's organs) and finally likelihood of survival from the procedure. That's where the requirement to be vaccinated against all threats that can be mediated (Covid is just one) and lifestyle (alcohol or other substance abuse) etc.

A choice not be vaccinated against COVID is a disqualifier just as is a choice to not be vaccinated against the flu. If there was a common cold vaccine that would be included as well.

So, they move to the next deserving recipient...and there are plenty.

[Farfromgeneva]

Discrimination is the act of making unjustified distinctions between people based on the groups, classes, or other categories to which they belong or are perceived to belong.[1] People may be discriminated on the basis of race, gender, age, religion, or sexual orientation, as well as other categories.[2] Discrimination especially occurs when individuals or groups are unfairly treated in a way which is worse than other people are treated, on the basis of their actual or perceived membership in certain groups or social categories.[2][3] It involves restricting members of one group from opportunities or privileges that are available to members of another group.[4]

Then there’s something called mathematical probabilities showing distributions and would easily demonstrate what is just or unjust.

Allocation of finite resources means not everyone gets what they want. Even the selfish ones.

[seacoaster]

I see that Covid vaccine zealotry has raised it's ugly head again.

First of all, we lost my bro-in-law, a victim of lymphoma a few years ago. It was a systemic infection, post bone marrow transplant, not lymphoma that did him in. So I know full well how the immune system is compromised following these kinds of operations. Knowing him well, my b-i-l would have accepted any vaccination updates (and probably did, I would need to ask my sister) that his doctors would have recommended...he was that sort of guy. But that's not the point, is it? The patient in Boston feels/thinks differently.

The Boston hospital my well have a policy but that is based upon recommendation, possibly mandatory requirement, but not law.

“Post any transplant, kidney, heart whatever, your immune system is shut off. The flu could kill you, a cold could kill you, Covid could kill you,” said Dr Arthur Caplan, the head of medical ethics at NYU Grossman School of Medicine, told CBS Boston.

Hypothetically... If I'm the Covid vaccine-hesitant patient and I'm considering a cost/benefit analysis and understand that anything might kill me, even a common cold, that fact could certainly make me less likely to take the vaccine, not more. Considering the patient's anti-Covid-vaxx justification, in his mind, why do the vaccine when the chances that something common, that I'm not going to be vaccinated against might do me in anyway. He will accept the risk of passing on the vaccine, based on his obviously strong feelings and clear conscience.

“The organs are scarce: we are not going to distribute them to someone who has a poor chance of living when others who are vaccinated have a better chance post-surgery of surviving.”

No one has a problem with the statement above? Does the Hippocratic Oath need to be mentioned again?

This patient needs timely care and has already been given "prioritized" status (whatever that means at this hospital). Because he doesn't wish to follow the rules, having weighed the risks and his conscience to make a personal healthcare decision, the hospital pulls him out of line in order to give his "prioritized" spot to someone who doesn't share his vaxx-hesitancy and follows the rules. I'm no lawyer of course, but IMO, it seems a case for discrimination could be made.

I hope this guy finds another hospital that will be more tolerant/compromising, considering his needs, and in time.

The whole business is troubling, of course, and I think we can all feel for the guy at some level. But (serious question, because I don't know) isn't this what hospitals in the transplant business do: make decisions about an exceedingly finite resource being matched with a proper recipient? No drunks or drug addicts allowed. Certainly likely that other medical and personal issues are disqualifying. Not sure how this is different except for the extremely political environment in which all things vaccination are now discussed.

Sorry about your brother-in-law; hope your sister and her family are doing OK.

Thanks sc. Yep, everyone doing well!

What would happen to this guy if he refused the vaccine based on religious grounds? Would/could the hospital still yank him out of line?

Again, I don't know the answer. But I don't think it is the basis for the failure to vax that matters; it is just the fact of declining to be vaccinated with the medical establishment in the transplant business have mandated certain precautions. That is the quid pro quo: scarce resource = certain medically prescribed pre-requirements. It's not discriminatory as long as all potential recipients are faced with the same eligibility requirements.

[jhu72]

... it is really simple. This guy is decreasing (BY CHOICE) the chance of the organ transplant being long term successful. Increasing the likelihood that a very valuable resource that could be used to save someone else's life is wasted. There is a long line of people waiting for organs.

This guy has his chance of being selected for organ transplant increased because of his age. All else being equal, other older patients have to wait behind him for that reason. Is this fair?? Religion is not a factor considered by Transplant Boards. Yes, boards. A single individual does not make these decisions.

[Farfromgeneva]

To even suggest this event would be discrimination is the same privileged victim mindset we see all to often.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/6036157001

Do what the experts suggest….not Joe Rogan or the Brit running his own experiment.

“Experts say it's important to be vaccinated before a transplant because the vaccine is less effective if administered after a transplant due to anti-rejection medications.”

[Farfromgeneva]

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/6036157001

Do what the experts suggest….not Joe Rogan or the Brit running his own experiment.

“Experts say it's important to be vaccinated before a transplant because the vaccine is less effective if administered after a transplant due to anti-rejection medications.”

Could you provide me a YouTube link to that recommendation please?

[jhu72]

Military COVID status.

[youthathletics]

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/6036157001

Do what the experts suggest….not Joe Rogan or the Brit running his own experiment.

“Experts say it's important to be vaccinated before a transplant because the vaccine is less effective if administered after a transplant due to anti-rejection medications.”

Could you provide me a YouTube link to that recommendation please?

Curious....what has the Brit running his own experiment suggested?

[Farfromgeneva]

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/6036157001

Do what the experts suggest….not Joe Rogan or the Brit running his own experiment.

“Experts say it's important to be vaccinated before a transplant because the vaccine is less effective if administered after a transplant due to anti-rejection medications.”

Could you provide me a YouTube link to that recommendation please?

Curious....what has the Brit running his own experiment suggested?

https://books.google.com/books?id=KVGd- ... AF6BAgEEAM

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/6036157001

Do what the experts suggest….not Joe Rogan or the Brit running his own experiment.

“Experts say it's important to be vaccinated before a transplant because the vaccine is less effective if administered after a transplant due to anti-rejection medications.”

Could you provide me a YouTube link to that recommendation please?

Curious....what has the Brit running his own experiment suggested?

Nothing, yet. Maybe he will, maybe he won’t. I don’t know. Have you noticed you have a propensity to look to other people for guidance? Even strangers with no proven credentials? Has taht always been part of your makeup? A flock that needs shepherding?

[a fan]

Hypothetically... If I'm the Covid vaccine-hesitant patient and I'm considering a cost/benefit analysis and understand that anything might kill me, even a common cold, that fact could certainly make me less likely to take the vaccine, not more.

Anything might kill you AFTER the transplant, Tech. Not before.

What I want to know is: how does this guy know he needs a heart transplant? Where did he get that information?

[Farfromgeneva]

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/6036157001

Do what the experts suggest….not Joe Rogan or the Brit running his own experiment.

“Experts say it's important to be vaccinated before a transplant because the vaccine is less effective if administered after a transplant due to anti-rejection medications.”

Could you provide me a YouTube link to that recommendation please?

Curious....what has the Brit running his own experiment suggested?

Nothing, yet. Maybe he will, maybe he won’t. I don’t know. Have you noticed you have a propensity to look to other people for guidance? Even strangers with no proven credentials? Has taht always been part of your makeup? A flock that needs shepherding?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5T9IiO0ZLOM

[youthathletics]

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/6036157001

Do what the experts suggest….not Joe Rogan or the Brit running his own experiment.

“Experts say it's important to be vaccinated before a transplant because the vaccine is less effective if administered after a transplant due to anti-rejection medications.”

Could you provide me a YouTube link to that recommendation please?

Curious....what has the Brit running his own experiment suggested?

Nothing, yet. Maybe he will, maybe he won’t. I don’t know. Have you noticed you have a propensity to look to other people for guidance? Even strangers with no proven credentials? Has taht always been part of your makeup? A flock that needs shepherding?

So why did you imply he had, then need to walk it back after being asked? It’s how I was raised, to listen far more than I speak to have a better informed opinion, you should try it.

Ever noticed you have a propensity to post like you think you know it all, when you don’t.

Stop bitin’.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/6036157001

Do what the experts suggest….not Joe Rogan or the Brit running his own experiment.

“Experts say it's important to be vaccinated before a transplant because the vaccine is less effective if administered after a transplant due to anti-rejection medications.”

Could you provide me a YouTube link to that recommendation please?

Curious....what has the Brit running his own experiment suggested?

Nothing, yet. Maybe he will, maybe he won’t. I don’t know. Have you noticed you have a propensity to look to other people for guidance? Even strangers with no proven credentials? Has taht always been part of your makeup? A flock that needs shepherding?

So why did you imply he had, then need to walk it back after being asked? It’s how I was raised, to listen far more than I speak to have a better informed opinion, you should try it.

Ever noticed you have a propensity to post like you think you know it all, when you don’t.

Stop bitin’.

You should have taken more English composition. I didn't imply anything... you inferred it. Did I use a past tense? and listening and following are two different things....

Get off my tip, son.

[youthathletics]

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/6036157001

Do what the experts suggest….not Joe Rogan or the Brit running his own experiment.

“Experts say it's important to be vaccinated before a transplant because the vaccine is less effective if administered after a transplant due to anti-rejection medications.”

Could you provide me a YouTube link to that recommendation please?

Curious....what has the Brit running his own experiment suggested?

Nothing, yet. Maybe he will, maybe he won’t. I don’t know. Have you noticed you have a propensity to look to other people for guidance? Even strangers with no proven credentials? Has taht always been part of your makeup? A flock that needs shepherding?

So why did you imply he had, then need to walk it back after being asked? It’s how I was raised, to listen far more than I speak to have a better informed opinion, you should try it.

Ever noticed you have a propensity to post like you think you know it all, when you don’t.

Stop bitin’.

You should have taken more English composition. I didn't imply anything... you inferred it. Did I used a past tense? and listening and following are two different things....

Get off my tip, son.

just as expected, no accounting to your own word. Past tense has nothing to do with current experiment you said he is running. Seems your projection on others is more about you.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/6036157001

Do what the experts suggest….not Joe Rogan or the Brit running his own experiment.

“Experts say it's important to be vaccinated before a transplant because the vaccine is less effective if administered after a transplant due to anti-rejection medications.”

Could you provide me a YouTube link to that recommendation please?

Curious....what has the Brit running his own experiment suggested?

Nothing, yet. Maybe he will, maybe he won’t. I don’t know. Have you noticed you have a propensity to look to other people for guidance? Even strangers with no proven credentials? Has taht always been part of your makeup? A flock that needs shepherding?

So why did you imply he had, then need to walk it back after being asked? It’s how I was raised, to listen far more than I speak to have a better informed opinion, you should try it.

Ever noticed you have a propensity to post like you think you know it all, when you don’t.

Stop bitin’.

You should have taken more English composition. I didn't imply anything... you inferred it. Did I use a past tense? and listening and following are two different things....

Get off my tip, son.

just as expected, no accounting to your own word. Past tense has nothing to do with current experiment you said he is running. Seems your projection on others is more about you.

You are delusional. (EDIT above : I fixed my typo BTW).

[jhu72]

... it is really simple. This guy is decreasing (BY CHOICE) the chance of the organ transplant being long term successful. Increasing the likelihood that a very valuable resource that could be used to save someone else's life is wasted. There is a long line of people waiting for organs.

This guy has his chance of being selected for organ transplant increased because of his age. All else being equal, other older patients have to wait behind him for that reason. Is this fair?? Religion is not a factor considered by Transplant Boards. Yes, boards. A single individual does not make these decisions.

UPDATE: The fellow in question decided to go the mechanical heart route, which does not have a vaccination requirement. An interesting note, he has been aware of his condition for 4 years and is only now addressing the problem because he suffered heart failure in recent days. His parents claim he is not antivax, he is concerned about the COVID vaccine's reputation for causing heart inflammation. The doctors think not taking the vaccination is higher risk.

I am guessing this is a backup plan which solves the immediate problem, gives him another 5 years and hopes that we are past the COVID issue during that time. With a stronger heart he might be willing to get the vaccination. I infer this from his parent's most recent comments.

Updated story.

UPDATE #2: Just saw an Inside Edition report that is incompatible with the "Updated story" above. Parents appear to say different things regarding why the son won't take the vaccine. It could also be that the son who is in a hospital bed is changing his mind. In this Inside Edition story the mother says her son doesn't believe it is possible to develop a vaccine so quickly so he doesn't trust it. Typical response from someone listening to "Internet experts".

This updated story (UPDATE #2) appears to have been published earlier Wednesday, than the original "Updated story" above which was published Wednesday evening. Leading one to believe the patient has thought better of it.

[tech37]

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/6036157001

Do what the experts suggest….not Joe Rogan or the Brit running his own experiment.

“Experts say it's important to be vaccinated before a transplant because the vaccine is less effective if administered after a transplant due to anti-rejection medications.”

Could you provide me a YouTube link to that recommendation please?

Curious....what has the Brit running his own experiment suggested?

Nothing, yet. Maybe he will, maybe he won’t. I don’t know. Have you noticed you have a propensity to look to other people for guidance? Even strangers with no proven credentials? Has taht always been part of your makeup? A flock that needs shepherding?

So why did you imply he had, then need to walk it back after being asked? It’s how I was raised, to listen far more than I speak to have a better informed opinion, you should try it.

Ever noticed you have a propensity to post like you think you know it all, when you don’t.

Stop bitin’.

You should have taken more English composition. I didn't imply anything... you inferred it. Did I use a past tense? and listening and following are two different things....

Get off my tip, son.

just as expected, no accounting to your own word. Past tense has nothing to do with current experiment you said he is running. Seems your projection on others is more about you.

You are delusional. (EDIT above : I fixed my typo BTW).

You're right youth... the faux hipster, establishment lackey adds nothing but ridicule... the epitome of insecurity.