Is America a racist nation?

[SCLaxAttack]

.. don't believe it took 100 odd years before anyone noticed it.

You may be wrong. It depends on whether, through intimidation or actual law, black people frequented the park all those years ago so that they may have even been able to see, and be critical, of it. Case in point: https://www.wect.com/2020/07/13/commiss ... crae-park/

"Hugh MacRae Park name change.....

The park was originally named after Hugh MacRae, a noted white supremacist who was deeply involved in the 1898 Wilmington massacre when an unspecified number of black people were killed by white men on a mission to take over the city. MacRae and his wife, Rena, donated the land to the county on April 10, 1925, with the stipulation the property was for white people only. While black people started going to the park in the late 1960′s, it wasn’t until December 24, 1980, that Hugh Morton, an heir of Hugh MacRae’s, had the restrictions officially released."

[cradleandshoot]

Maybe we should have just used some C4 and blown up the sculpture in question???? That is what the Thallllybhan would do and did.

I'm ok with that for Stone Mountain, though doubt it would be so crude.
Stone Mountain ain't a UNESCO World Heritage site and will never be one.
It's a monument to slavery, white supremacy, and sedition.
I guess for some that's a "religion"...

But Salty's free to explain his intent. We merely asked...

I'm guessing you didn't read my link to the Dentzel Carousel at Charlotte Beach? Read it and get back to me. The carousel has been designated as a historical national landmark. Sooooo you have no problem with removing that panel until your vision of " proper context" is defined? Even if it took a 110 years for anybody to notice it.

Yeah, I don't know hardly anything about your Carousel or the issue at hand, but I'd wager that this wasn't just "noticed" now...I'd wager it was noticed aplenty but no one thought it worthy to listen, and paling in comparison to other 'symbols' offensiveness so didn't draw much attention when there were much worse 'symbols' to focus on...believe me, Aunt Jemima wasn't first noticed to be offensive in the wake of George Floyd, it just wasn't being listened to by the white majority. That's what's really changed, more white folks willing to listen and consider taking action. Eyes more open, hearts more open.

I'd have to know more about the particular issue of the Carousel, options to address...my first instinct is usually to think about ways that things can be preserved for further education, not destroyed. Not always worth preserving, though, and certainly not always worth presenting in a place of honor.

Doesn't sound like that's what going on with this panel, so perhaps some signage that actually draws attention and delivers real educational value would suffice. If not, then removal of the single panel could well be appropriate...but there are indeed hoops to go through if designated as an historical landmark. So, I'd look first to addressing it through an educational exhibit and signage.

Read the damn link and educate yourself. YES it took that long before someone noticed that one panel. So your back to your same dumb ass original point... Just provide some historical perspective and context and everything will be just fine.

I clicked through all your links, cradle, I don't see anything confirming that no one noticed the offensiveness of this panel until just now. Perhaps I missed something, so feel free to re-link and point it out where they know that to be the case...the only thing I see is a guy named Brandon Fagan saying he'd visited there many times and hadn't noticed it...he goes on to say he doesn't see anything racist about it...ok Brandon Fagan doesn't get it.

But then we see a link TLD provided from 2015...that's pre-BLM and all the heightened interest in such symbols that goes into great detail as to why the panel is so offensive...as I said, I'd "wager" that just now isn't the first time someone noticed and was offended (won that wager)...indeed, I'd be willing to bet that it was noticed many, many times over many decades...but voicing that offense had costs.

Maybe somebody did notice it MD. The chit never hit the fan publicly until recently. I said before, I rode this carousel when I was young. The typical warm summer day was ride the bus to Charlotte Beach ( pronounced Shalott Beach by us locals) you grab an ice cream cone from Abbotts, chocolate custard thank you, then head to the we were looking to ride the carousel, we were not looking for racist panels. I did the same damn thing with my sons MD. I never paid attention to this artwork. If any person ever complained about this panel before it never made the news. Rochester is about as liberal a city as you will find. This is not the kind of issue that gets swept under the rug. I admit when the pictures of this artwork hit the news, I was just as stunned as anybody. They could not be more inappropriate. In 1980 this carousel was granted status as an historical national landmark. IMO when you look at this marvelous carousel and the beautiful hand carved horses, that is all you notice. The question now was what to do with this panel? You could not destroy it. IMO there is no historical context that can properly explain it 110 years down the road.

FTR, the panel was removed and put into storage somewhere. IMO the panel should have been kept at the carousel in another location with a plaque describing its history at the carousel and informing visitors to its racist history and why it was removed. I'm certainly not trying to defend the picture. I will say that to my knowledge for many decades nobody noticed it.

You leaving a Swastika up there and two kids in striped pajamas, wise one?

About as idiotic an analogy to be made. You ever take your kid for a ride on a merry go round? The kids are more excited about what animal they want to ride.

You didn’t answer the question. You a kid?

Why answer an idiot question put forth by a moron?

[cradleandshoot]

.. don't believe it took 100 odd years before anyone noticed it.

You may be wrong. It depends on whether, through intimidation or actual law, black people frequented the park all those years ago so that they may have even been able to see, and be critical, of it. Case in point: https://www.wect.com/2020/07/13/commiss ... crae-park/

"Hugh MacRae Park name change.....

The park was originally named after Hugh MacRae, a noted white supremacist who was deeply involved in the 1898 Wilmington massacre when an unspecified number of black people were killed by white men on a mission to take over the city. MacRae and his wife, Rena, donated the land to the county on April 10, 1925, with the stipulation the property was for white people only. While black people started going to the park in the late 1960′s, it wasn’t until December 24, 1980, that Hugh Morton, an heir of Hugh MacRae’s, had the restrictions officially released."

I do know for a fact the Dentzel Carousel at Ontario Beach Park was declared a National Historic Monument in 1980. I have no freaking idea at what point in time this racist panel was ever noticed or acknowledged by anyone. I know my mom took us there to ride it in the mid 60s. I took my kids there in the early 90s. I never noticed ever. I was never paying any attention to these art panels the animals that make up the carousel were the attractions. I likely spent more time wiping melting ice cream of my kids and making sure they didn't fall off the horse. I just was always more focused on my kids having fun. I do know that in the 1980s my internet availability was like almost non existent. Im sure some of some noticed back in the day. Who did you go to so you could complain?

[jhu72]

.. don't believe it took 100 odd years before anyone noticed it.

You may be wrong. It depends on whether, through intimidation or actual law, black people frequented the park all those years ago so that they may have even been able to see, and be critical, of it. Case in point: https://www.wect.com/2020/07/13/commiss ... crae-park/

"Hugh MacRae Park name change.....

The park was originally named after Hugh MacRae, a noted white supremacist who was deeply involved in the 1898 Wilmington massacre when an unspecified number of black people were killed by white men on a mission to take over the city. MacRae and his wife, Rena, donated the land to the county on April 10, 1925, with the stipulation the property was for white people only. While black people started going to the park in the late 1960′s, it wasn’t until December 24, 1980, that Hugh Morton, an heir of Hugh MacRae’s, had the restrictions officially released."

... certainly under those kind of circumstances it might be possible.

[Farfromgeneva]

People weren’t so sensitive in the old days…..

Nobody paid attention to JayZs The Story of OJ apparently.

Nope. I have mentioned that I was a mass media communications minor in college…One of the courses I took was “The History of Minorities in The Mass Media”. It was an excellent course. Media and The Government was also fantastic.

If only I could pull the Chappelle reparation clip with Al Roker “this is how I Really talk! I’m paid”

[Farfromgeneva]

Maybe we should have just used some C4 and blown up the sculpture in question???? That is what the Thallllybhan would do and did.

I'm ok with that for Stone Mountain, though doubt it would be so crude.
Stone Mountain ain't a UNESCO World Heritage site and will never be one.
It's a monument to slavery, white supremacy, and sedition.
I guess for some that's a "religion"...

But Salty's free to explain his intent. We merely asked...

I'm guessing you didn't read my link to the Dentzel Carousel at Charlotte Beach? Read it and get back to me. The carousel has been designated as a historical national landmark. Sooooo you have no problem with removing that panel until your vision of " proper context" is defined? Even if it took a 110 years for anybody to notice it.

Yeah, I don't know hardly anything about your Carousel or the issue at hand, but I'd wager that this wasn't just "noticed" now...I'd wager it was noticed aplenty but no one thought it worthy to listen, and paling in comparison to other 'symbols' offensiveness so didn't draw much attention when there were much worse 'symbols' to focus on...believe me, Aunt Jemima wasn't first noticed to be offensive in the wake of George Floyd, it just wasn't being listened to by the white majority. That's what's really changed, more white folks willing to listen and consider taking action. Eyes more open, hearts more open.

I'd have to know more about the particular issue of the Carousel, options to address...my first instinct is usually to think about ways that things can be preserved for further education, not destroyed. Not always worth preserving, though, and certainly not always worth presenting in a place of honor.

Doesn't sound like that's what going on with this panel, so perhaps some signage that actually draws attention and delivers real educational value would suffice. If not, then removal of the single panel could well be appropriate...but there are indeed hoops to go through if designated as an historical landmark. So, I'd look first to addressing it through an educational exhibit and signage.

Read the damn link and educate yourself. YES it took that long before someone noticed that one panel. So your back to your same dumb ass original point... Just provide some historical perspective and context and everything will be just fine.

https://www.rochestersubway.com/topics/ ... -ridicule/

I am with you Cradle…. I don’t know why anyone would be offended….if anything, that chicken should be scared

Damn gangbangers are getting into cockfighting now?!?!

Who in Rochester protecting that kid from that Rooster??!! Where is BLM/Antifa?

It’s the mayors fault.

I never said I wasn't offended. What I said was I never paid much attention to the artwork on all of the panels. The carousel has been in the same location for over 110 years. It was designated an historical national landmark in 1980. Maybe enjoying a chocolate custard from Abbotts and a walk on the pier was enough if a distraction for any child or adult.

What happened to SeaBreeze and Roseland?

[cradleandshoot]

Maybe we should have just used some C4 and blown up the sculpture in question???? That is what the Thallllybhan would do and did.

I'm ok with that for Stone Mountain, though doubt it would be so crude.
Stone Mountain ain't a UNESCO World Heritage site and will never be one.
It's a monument to slavery, white supremacy, and sedition.
I guess for some that's a "religion"...

But Salty's free to explain his intent. We merely asked...

I'm guessing you didn't read my link to the Dentzel Carousel at Charlotte Beach? Read it and get back to me. The carousel has been designated as a historical national landmark. Sooooo you have no problem with removing that panel until your vision of " proper context" is defined? Even if it took a 110 years for anybody to notice it.

Yeah, I don't know hardly anything about your Carousel or the issue at hand, but I'd wager that this wasn't just "noticed" now...I'd wager it was noticed aplenty but no one thought it worthy to listen, and paling in comparison to other 'symbols' offensiveness so didn't draw much attention when there were much worse 'symbols' to focus on...believe me, Aunt Jemima wasn't first noticed to be offensive in the wake of George Floyd, it just wasn't being listened to by the white majority. That's what's really changed, more white folks willing to listen and consider taking action. Eyes more open, hearts more open.

I'd have to know more about the particular issue of the Carousel, options to address...my first instinct is usually to think about ways that things can be preserved for further education, not destroyed. Not always worth preserving, though, and certainly not always worth presenting in a place of honor.

Doesn't sound like that's what going on with this panel, so perhaps some signage that actually draws attention and delivers real educational value would suffice. If not, then removal of the single panel could well be appropriate...but there are indeed hoops to go through if designated as an historical landmark. So, I'd look first to addressing it through an educational exhibit and signage.

Read the damn link and educate yourself. YES it took that long before someone noticed that one panel. So your back to your same dumb ass original point... Just provide some historical perspective and context and everything will be just fine.

https://www.rochestersubway.com/topics/ ... -ridicule/

I am with you Cradle…. I don’t know why anyone would be offended….if anything, that chicken should be scared

Damn gangbangers are getting into cockfighting now?!?!

Who in Rochester protecting that kid from that Rooster??!! Where is BLM/Antifa?

It’s the mayors fault.

I never said I wasn't offended. What I said was I never paid much attention to the artwork on all of the panels. The carousel has been in the same location for over 110 years. It was designated an historical national landmark in 1980. Maybe enjoying a chocolate custard from Abbotts and a walk on the pier was enough if a distraction for any child or adult.

What happened to SeaBreeze and Roseland?

Roseland is long gone. Seabreeze Park is still a huge summer destination. Seabreeze had its own century old carousel destroyed in a fire in 1994. It is amazing to me that seabreeze park survived Covid. they were closed all of 2020 and their season only runs from May to September.

[cradleandshoot]

Maybe we should have just used some C4 and blown up the sculpture in question???? That is what the Thallllybhan would do and did.

I'm ok with that for Stone Mountain, though doubt it would be so crude.
Stone Mountain ain't a UNESCO World Heritage site and will never be one.
It's a monument to slavery, white supremacy, and sedition.
I guess for some that's a "religion"...

But Salty's free to explain his intent. We merely asked...

I'm guessing you didn't read my link to the Dentzel Carousel at Charlotte Beach? Read it and get back to me. The carousel has been designated as a historical national landmark. Sooooo you have no problem with removing that panel until your vision of " proper context" is defined? Even if it took a 110 years for anybody to notice it.

Yeah, I don't know hardly anything about your Carousel or the issue at hand, but I'd wager that this wasn't just "noticed" now...I'd wager it was noticed aplenty but no one thought it worthy to listen, and paling in comparison to other 'symbols' offensiveness so didn't draw much attention when there were much worse 'symbols' to focus on...believe me, Aunt Jemima wasn't first noticed to be offensive in the wake of George Floyd, it just wasn't being listened to by the white majority. That's what's really changed, more white folks willing to listen and consider taking action. Eyes more open, hearts more open.

I'd have to know more about the particular issue of the Carousel, options to address...my first instinct is usually to think about ways that things can be preserved for further education, not destroyed. Not always worth preserving, though, and certainly not always worth presenting in a place of honor.

Doesn't sound like that's what going on with this panel, so perhaps some signage that actually draws attention and delivers real educational value would suffice. If not, then removal of the single panel could well be appropriate...but there are indeed hoops to go through if designated as an historical landmark. So, I'd look first to addressing it through an educational exhibit and signage.

Read the damn link and educate yourself. YES it took that long before someone noticed that one panel. So your back to your same dumb ass original point... Just provide some historical perspective and context and everything will be just fine.

I clicked through all your links, cradle, I don't see anything confirming that no one noticed the offensiveness of this panel until just now. Perhaps I missed something, so feel free to re-link and point it out where they know that to be the case...the only thing I see is a guy named Brandon Fagan saying he'd visited there many times and hadn't noticed it...he goes on to say he doesn't see anything racist about it...ok Brandon Fagan doesn't get it.

But then we see a link TLD provided from 2015...that's pre-BLM and all the heightened interest in such symbols that goes into great detail as to why the panel is so offensive...as I said, I'd "wager" that just now isn't the first time someone noticed and was offended (won that wager)...indeed, I'd be willing to bet that it was noticed many, many times over many decades...but voicing that offense had costs.

Maybe somebody did notice it MD. The chit never hit the fan publicly until recently. I said before, I rode this carousel when I was young. The typical warm summer day was ride the bus to Charlotte Beach ( pronounced Shalott Beach by us locals) you grab an ice cream cone from Abbotts, chocolate custard thank you, then head to the we were looking to ride the carousel, we were not looking for racist panels. I did the same damn thing with my sons MD. I never paid attention to this artwork. If any person ever complained about this panel before it never made the news. Rochester is about as liberal a city as you will find. This is not the kind of issue that gets swept under the rug. I admit when the pictures of this artwork hit the news, I was just as stunned as anybody. They could not be more inappropriate. In 1980 this carousel was granted status as an historical national landmark. IMO when you look at this marvelous carousel and the beautiful hand carved horses, that is all you notice. The question now was what to do with this panel? You could not destroy it. IMO there is no historical context that can properly explain it 110 years down the road.

FTR, the panel was removed and put into storage somewhere. IMO the panel should have been kept at the carousel in another location with a plaque describing its history at the carousel and informing visitors to its racist history and why it was removed. I'm certainly not trying to defend the picture. I will say that to my knowledge for many decades nobody noticed it.

First, I appreciate your recognition that it's offensive, "could not be more inappropriate".

So, I hope you'll understand that I'm joking when I say "color me surprised that you didn't notice it"...actually, it's not at all surprising that most white folks are oblivious to such unless specifically pointed out...and of course there are the Brandons of that story who even so don't think it's racist.

And I totally understand that with so much other other visual and auditory stimuli, it's darn easy not to pay attention to every image presented, even if it is/was rather prominent.

But let's examine this a moment for what it actually tells us, that decades have gone by in which, at least to your knowledge (again white guy) no one "noticed" or at least didn't make a fuss about it? (note someone did in 2015, which you didn't know, but no action then). I'll guarantee you folks "noticed" and were offended, but simply kept their mouths shut...others may well have spoken up but were told to move along, shut up and enjoy the rides...whatever. But didn't break through into the larger community's consciousness. Yup, like a lot of such...

To be clear, I likely wouldn't have noticed it either...well, maybe...but if I close my eyes and imagine all the sights and sounds of an old fashioned merry-go-round I definitely can imagine never noticing. Eyes simply drawn elsewhere.

But the Historical Commission in 1980 surely looked at the carousel through a much closer examination. No way they could have entirely missed it. So, what does that tell us about the sensitivities or lack thereof of those commission members? What was the racial make-up of that group?

No argument about the Historical designation, but surely that was possible with the removal of that particular panel and replacement with something more appropriate to the overall joyful purpose. But they didn't...

Food for thought.
Not as delicious as the ice cream or custard, but worth 'tasting' for a moment...

Agree on finding an appropriate place to display and educate...don't know whether that could be done at that location, but I'd assume Rochester has an Historical Society or other museum for such displays from time to time that address the history of region, good and bad. Important to understand that prevailing attitudes have changed...

If your not from Rochester the Ontario Beach Park experience that we all call going up to Shalot is a truly local experience. The carousel has always been a part of the experience for the young folks. For myself it was always a chocolate custard at Abbotts. If you have never had one you don't know what your missing. A walk over to the beach and then a walk on the pier. You bring a bag of stale bread and feed the ducks. You watch all the boats coming in and out the Genesee River to and from Lake Ontario. You take your kids to the playground, you toss a frisbee, or a football or bring your mitts and play catch. The volleyball nets are up on the beach. If the Lake is having a good day you can even go swimming. I didn't think about the carousel until the fit hit the shan there a few years ago. I guess i am not an astute observer of what goes on around me. I can't recall how many times I have been to that carousel and never noticed those art panels inside. I do know a poster here said he had walked past that statue of Teddy R a number of times never paying close attention to it. The memories don't change for me. The fun my kids had riding that carousel are priceless. They aint young for that long so you cherish all those memories your given.

FTR, 2015 is when everybody became aware of the racist artwork. It became a big deal when the city wanted it removed. The fact that the carousel was a historic national landmark made removing it a very complicated procedure. You can't just remove anything from a historic national landmark without jumping through a lot of hoops.

[Farfromgeneva]

Maybe we should have just used some C4 and blown up the sculpture in question???? That is what the Thallllybhan would do and did.

I'm ok with that for Stone Mountain, though doubt it would be so crude.
Stone Mountain ain't a UNESCO World Heritage site and will never be one.
It's a monument to slavery, white supremacy, and sedition.
I guess for some that's a "religion"...

But Salty's free to explain his intent. We merely asked...

I'm guessing you didn't read my link to the Dentzel Carousel at Charlotte Beach? Read it and get back to me. The carousel has been designated as a historical national landmark. Sooooo you have no problem with removing that panel until your vision of " proper context" is defined? Even if it took a 110 years for anybody to notice it.

Yeah, I don't know hardly anything about your Carousel or the issue at hand, but I'd wager that this wasn't just "noticed" now...I'd wager it was noticed aplenty but no one thought it worthy to listen, and paling in comparison to other 'symbols' offensiveness so didn't draw much attention when there were much worse 'symbols' to focus on...believe me, Aunt Jemima wasn't first noticed to be offensive in the wake of George Floyd, it just wasn't being listened to by the white majority. That's what's really changed, more white folks willing to listen and consider taking action. Eyes more open, hearts more open.

I'd have to know more about the particular issue of the Carousel, options to address...my first instinct is usually to think about ways that things can be preserved for further education, not destroyed. Not always worth preserving, though, and certainly not always worth presenting in a place of honor.

Doesn't sound like that's what going on with this panel, so perhaps some signage that actually draws attention and delivers real educational value would suffice. If not, then removal of the single panel could well be appropriate...but there are indeed hoops to go through if designated as an historical landmark. So, I'd look first to addressing it through an educational exhibit and signage.

Read the damn link and educate yourself. YES it took that long before someone noticed that one panel. So your back to your same dumb ass original point... Just provide some historical perspective and context and everything will be just fine.

https://www.rochestersubway.com/topics/ ... -ridicule/

I am with you Cradle…. I don’t know why anyone would be offended….if anything, that chicken should be scared

Damn gangbangers are getting into cockfighting now?!?!

Who in Rochester protecting that kid from that Rooster??!! Where is BLM/Antifa?

It’s the mayors fault.

I never said I wasn't offended. What I said was I never paid much attention to the artwork on all of the panels. The carousel has been in the same location for over 110 years. It was designated an historical national landmark in 1980. Maybe enjoying a chocolate custard from Abbotts and a walk on the pier was enough if a distraction for any child or adult.

What happened to SeaBreeze and Roseland?

Roseland is long gone. Seabreeze Park is still a huge summer destination. Seabreeze had its own century old carousel destroyed in a fire in 1994. It is amazing to me that seabreeze park survived Covid. they were closed all of 2020 and their season only runs from May to September.

My family took my up for a trip the last week and last days roseland was open want to say 1984 or so. Miss the log flume ride at SeaBreeze. Went to my aunts funeral probably 15yrs ago and looked like SeaBreeze was permanently closed but not tore down but it was Jan/Feb so wasn’t sure. Was living in NYC at that point. Waterfront real estate don’t work anymore for amusement park economics.

[cradleandshoot]

Maybe we should have just used some C4 and blown up the sculpture in question???? That is what the Thallllybhan would do and did.

I'm ok with that for Stone Mountain, though doubt it would be so crude.
Stone Mountain ain't a UNESCO World Heritage site and will never be one.
It's a monument to slavery, white supremacy, and sedition.
I guess for some that's a "religion"...

But Salty's free to explain his intent. We merely asked...

I'm guessing you didn't read my link to the Dentzel Carousel at Charlotte Beach? Read it and get back to me. The carousel has been designated as a historical national landmark. Sooooo you have no problem with removing that panel until your vision of " proper context" is defined? Even if it took a 110 years for anybody to notice it.

Yeah, I don't know hardly anything about your Carousel or the issue at hand, but I'd wager that this wasn't just "noticed" now...I'd wager it was noticed aplenty but no one thought it worthy to listen, and paling in comparison to other 'symbols' offensiveness so didn't draw much attention when there were much worse 'symbols' to focus on...believe me, Aunt Jemima wasn't first noticed to be offensive in the wake of George Floyd, it just wasn't being listened to by the white majority. That's what's really changed, more white folks willing to listen and consider taking action. Eyes more open, hearts more open.

I'd have to know more about the particular issue of the Carousel, options to address...my first instinct is usually to think about ways that things can be preserved for further education, not destroyed. Not always worth preserving, though, and certainly not always worth presenting in a place of honor.

Doesn't sound like that's what going on with this panel, so perhaps some signage that actually draws attention and delivers real educational value would suffice. If not, then removal of the single panel could well be appropriate...but there are indeed hoops to go through if designated as an historical landmark. So, I'd look first to addressing it through an educational exhibit and signage.

Read the damn link and educate yourself. YES it took that long before someone noticed that one panel. So your back to your same dumb ass original point... Just provide some historical perspective and context and everything will be just fine.

https://www.rochestersubway.com/topics/ ... -ridicule/

I am with you Cradle…. I don’t know why anyone would be offended….if anything, that chicken should be scared

Damn gangbangers are getting into cockfighting now?!?!

Who in Rochester protecting that kid from that Rooster??!! Where is BLM/Antifa?

It’s the mayors fault.

I never said I wasn't offended. What I said was I never paid much attention to the artwork on all of the panels. The carousel has been in the same location for over 110 years. It was designated an historical national landmark in 1980. Maybe enjoying a chocolate custard from Abbotts and a walk on the pier was enough if a distraction for any child or adult.

What happened to SeaBreeze and Roseland?

Roseland is long gone. Seabreeze Park is still a huge summer destination. Seabreeze had its own century old carousel destroyed in a fire in 1994. It is amazing to me that seabreeze park survived Covid. they were closed all of 2020 and their season only runs from May to September.

My family took my up for a trip the last week and last days roseland was open want to say 1984 or so. Miss the log flume ride at SeaBreeze. Went to my aunts funeral probably 15yrs ago and looked like SeaBreeze was permanently closed but not tore down but it was Jan/Feb so wasn’t sure. Was living in NYC at that point. Waterfront real estate don’t work anymore for amusement park economics.

Seabreeze does not have any water front. it is damn close and you can see the lake. It simply has the charm of a very small amusement park that has been there forever. I think the Jack Rabbit is one of the oldest wooden rollercoasters still around. They call it a "gully coaster" because it was built into a ravine. I drive by Seabreeze almost every day. It is a desolate looking place in January. I like looking at the ice on Lake Onterio and watching the bikers racing on the ice on Irondequoit Bay.

[Typical Lax Dad]

People weren’t so sensitive in the old days…..

Nobody paid attention to JayZs The Story of OJ apparently.

Nope. I have mentioned that I was a mass media communications minor in college…One of the courses I took was “The History of Minorities in The Mass Media”. It was an excellent course. Media and The Government was also fantastic.

If only I could pull the Chappelle reparation clip with Al Roker “this is how I Really talk! I’m paid”

A classic!

[Typical Lax Dad]

Maybe we should have just used some C4 and blown up the sculpture in question???? That is what the Thallllybhan would do and did.

I'm ok with that for Stone Mountain, though doubt it would be so crude.
Stone Mountain ain't a UNESCO World Heritage site and will never be one.
It's a monument to slavery, white supremacy, and sedition.
I guess for some that's a "religion"...

But Salty's free to explain his intent. We merely asked...

I'm guessing you didn't read my link to the Dentzel Carousel at Charlotte Beach? Read it and get back to me. The carousel has been designated as a historical national landmark. Sooooo you have no problem with removing that panel until your vision of " proper context" is defined? Even if it took a 110 years for anybody to notice it.

Yeah, I don't know hardly anything about your Carousel or the issue at hand, but I'd wager that this wasn't just "noticed" now...I'd wager it was noticed aplenty but no one thought it worthy to listen, and paling in comparison to other 'symbols' offensiveness so didn't draw much attention when there were much worse 'symbols' to focus on...believe me, Aunt Jemima wasn't first noticed to be offensive in the wake of George Floyd, it just wasn't being listened to by the white majority. That's what's really changed, more white folks willing to listen and consider taking action. Eyes more open, hearts more open.

I'd have to know more about the particular issue of the Carousel, options to address...my first instinct is usually to think about ways that things can be preserved for further education, not destroyed. Not always worth preserving, though, and certainly not always worth presenting in a place of honor.

Doesn't sound like that's what going on with this panel, so perhaps some signage that actually draws attention and delivers real educational value would suffice. If not, then removal of the single panel could well be appropriate...but there are indeed hoops to go through if designated as an historical landmark. So, I'd look first to addressing it through an educational exhibit and signage.

Read the damn link and educate yourself. YES it took that long before someone noticed that one panel. So your back to your same dumb ass original point... Just provide some historical perspective and context and everything will be just fine.

I clicked through all your links, cradle, I don't see anything confirming that no one noticed the offensiveness of this panel until just now. Perhaps I missed something, so feel free to re-link and point it out where they know that to be the case...the only thing I see is a guy named Brandon Fagan saying he'd visited there many times and hadn't noticed it...he goes on to say he doesn't see anything racist about it...ok Brandon Fagan doesn't get it.

But then we see a link TLD provided from 2015...that's pre-BLM and all the heightened interest in such symbols that goes into great detail as to why the panel is so offensive...as I said, I'd "wager" that just now isn't the first time someone noticed and was offended (won that wager)...indeed, I'd be willing to bet that it was noticed many, many times over many decades...but voicing that offense had costs.

Maybe somebody did notice it MD. The chit never hit the fan publicly until recently. I said before, I rode this carousel when I was young. The typical warm summer day was ride the bus to Charlotte Beach ( pronounced Shalott Beach by us locals) you grab an ice cream cone from Abbotts, chocolate custard thank you, then head to the we were looking to ride the carousel, we were not looking for racist panels. I did the same damn thing with my sons MD. I never paid attention to this artwork. If any person ever complained about this panel before it never made the news. Rochester is about as liberal a city as you will find. This is not the kind of issue that gets swept under the rug. I admit when the pictures of this artwork hit the news, I was just as stunned as anybody. They could not be more inappropriate. In 1980 this carousel was granted status as an historical national landmark. IMO when you look at this marvelous carousel and the beautiful hand carved horses, that is all you notice. The question now was what to do with this panel? You could not destroy it. IMO there is no historical context that can properly explain it 110 years down the road.

FTR, the panel was removed and put into storage somewhere. IMO the panel should have been kept at the carousel in another location with a plaque describing its history at the carousel and informing visitors to its racist history and why it was removed. I'm certainly not trying to defend the picture. I will say that to my knowledge for many decades nobody noticed it.

You leaving a Swastika up there and two kids in striped pajamas, wise one?

About as idiotic an analogy to be made. You ever take your kid for a ride on a merry go round? The kids are more excited about what animal they want to ride.

You didn’t answer the question. You a kid?

Why answer an idiot question put forth by a moron?

Because you are an adult that should know better and not a child…maybe?

[cradleandshoot]

Maybe we should have just used some C4 and blown up the sculpture in question???? That is what the Thallllybhan would do and did.

I'm ok with that for Stone Mountain, though doubt it would be so crude.
Stone Mountain ain't a UNESCO World Heritage site and will never be one.
It's a monument to slavery, white supremacy, and sedition.
I guess for some that's a "religion"...

But Salty's free to explain his intent. We merely asked...

I'm guessing you didn't read my link to the Dentzel Carousel at Charlotte Beach? Read it and get back to me. The carousel has been designated as a historical national landmark. Sooooo you have no problem with removing that panel until your vision of " proper context" is defined? Even if it took a 110 years for anybody to notice it.

Yeah, I don't know hardly anything about your Carousel or the issue at hand, but I'd wager that this wasn't just "noticed" now...I'd wager it was noticed aplenty but no one thought it worthy to listen, and paling in comparison to other 'symbols' offensiveness so didn't draw much attention when there were much worse 'symbols' to focus on...believe me, Aunt Jemima wasn't first noticed to be offensive in the wake of George Floyd, it just wasn't being listened to by the white majority. That's what's really changed, more white folks willing to listen and consider taking action. Eyes more open, hearts more open.

I'd have to know more about the particular issue of the Carousel, options to address...my first instinct is usually to think about ways that things can be preserved for further education, not destroyed. Not always worth preserving, though, and certainly not always worth presenting in a place of honor.

Doesn't sound like that's what going on with this panel, so perhaps some signage that actually draws attention and delivers real educational value would suffice. If not, then removal of the single panel could well be appropriate...but there are indeed hoops to go through if designated as an historical landmark. So, I'd look first to addressing it through an educational exhibit and signage.

Read the damn link and educate yourself. YES it took that long before someone noticed that one panel. So your back to your same dumb ass original point... Just provide some historical perspective and context and everything will be just fine.

I clicked through all your links, cradle, I don't see anything confirming that no one noticed the offensiveness of this panel until just now. Perhaps I missed something, so feel free to re-link and point it out where they know that to be the case...the only thing I see is a guy named Brandon Fagan saying he'd visited there many times and hadn't noticed it...he goes on to say he doesn't see anything racist about it...ok Brandon Fagan doesn't get it.

But then we see a link TLD provided from 2015...that's pre-BLM and all the heightened interest in such symbols that goes into great detail as to why the panel is so offensive...as I said, I'd "wager" that just now isn't the first time someone noticed and was offended (won that wager)...indeed, I'd be willing to bet that it was noticed many, many times over many decades...but voicing that offense had costs.

Maybe somebody did notice it MD. The chit never hit the fan publicly until recently. I said before, I rode this carousel when I was young. The typical warm summer day was ride the bus to Charlotte Beach ( pronounced Shalott Beach by us locals) you grab an ice cream cone from Abbotts, chocolate custard thank you, then head to the we were looking to ride the carousel, we were not looking for racist panels. I did the same damn thing with my sons MD. I never paid attention to this artwork. If any person ever complained about this panel before it never made the news. Rochester is about as liberal a city as you will find. This is not the kind of issue that gets swept under the rug. I admit when the pictures of this artwork hit the news, I was just as stunned as anybody. They could not be more inappropriate. In 1980 this carousel was granted status as an historical national landmark. IMO when you look at this marvelous carousel and the beautiful hand carved horses, that is all you notice. The question now was what to do with this panel? You could not destroy it. IMO there is no historical context that can properly explain it 110 years down the road.

FTR, the panel was removed and put into storage somewhere. IMO the panel should have been kept at the carousel in another location with a plaque describing its history at the carousel and informing visitors to its racist history and why it was removed. I'm certainly not trying to defend the picture. I will say that to my knowledge for many decades nobody noticed it.

You leaving a Swastika up there and two kids in striped pajamas, wise one?

About as idiotic an analogy to be made. You ever take your kid for a ride on a merry go round? The kids are more excited about what animal they want to ride.

You didn’t answer the question. You a kid?

Why answer an idiot question put forth by a moron?

Because you are an adult that should know better and not a child…maybe?

I have not the slightest idea what your talking about. I just figured you were busting my balls as you tend to from time to time. Maybe you can explain to my feeble old mind what your point was? You lost me with Nazi swastikas and striped pajamas. That is when I stopped taking you seriously.

[CU88]

r VA Governor just set up a tip line to report schools & teachers who teach about racism. This is classic fascism, informing on teachers.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... tip-line-/

Email: [email protected]

Whatever you do, don't make a mockery of this with fake tips. That would be a terrible thing to do...
I suggest something similar to this:

"My daughter’s teacher is inserting unnecessary questions about race in her math homework. I have included an example question below.

'Sally and Bob are racing for a 220 yard dash, if Sally ran a quarter mine in 2 minutes and Bob ran a quarter mile in 120 seconds, who won the race?'

I find this very offensive because I’m not able to help my daughter (it’s too hard).

- Deplorable r"

[Farfromgeneva]

Maybe we should have just used some C4 and blown up the sculpture in question???? That is what the Thallllybhan would do and did.

I'm ok with that for Stone Mountain, though doubt it would be so crude.
Stone Mountain ain't a UNESCO World Heritage site and will never be one.
It's a monument to slavery, white supremacy, and sedition.
I guess for some that's a "religion"...

But Salty's free to explain his intent. We merely asked...

I'm guessing you didn't read my link to the Dentzel Carousel at Charlotte Beach? Read it and get back to me. The carousel has been designated as a historical national landmark. Sooooo you have no problem with removing that panel until your vision of " proper context" is defined? Even if it took a 110 years for anybody to notice it.

Yeah, I don't know hardly anything about your Carousel or the issue at hand, but I'd wager that this wasn't just "noticed" now...I'd wager it was noticed aplenty but no one thought it worthy to listen, and paling in comparison to other 'symbols' offensiveness so didn't draw much attention when there were much worse 'symbols' to focus on...believe me, Aunt Jemima wasn't first noticed to be offensive in the wake of George Floyd, it just wasn't being listened to by the white majority. That's what's really changed, more white folks willing to listen and consider taking action. Eyes more open, hearts more open.

I'd have to know more about the particular issue of the Carousel, options to address...my first instinct is usually to think about ways that things can be preserved for further education, not destroyed. Not always worth preserving, though, and certainly not always worth presenting in a place of honor.

Doesn't sound like that's what going on with this panel, so perhaps some signage that actually draws attention and delivers real educational value would suffice. If not, then removal of the single panel could well be appropriate...but there are indeed hoops to go through if designated as an historical landmark. So, I'd look first to addressing it through an educational exhibit and signage.

Read the damn link and educate yourself. YES it took that long before someone noticed that one panel. So your back to your same dumb ass original point... Just provide some historical perspective and context and everything will be just fine.

https://www.rochestersubway.com/topics/ ... -ridicule/

I am with you Cradle…. I don’t know why anyone would be offended….if anything, that chicken should be scared

Damn gangbangers are getting into cockfighting now?!?!

Who in Rochester protecting that kid from that Rooster??!! Where is BLM/Antifa?

It’s the mayors fault.

I never said I wasn't offended. What I said was I never paid much attention to the artwork on all of the panels. The carousel has been in the same location for over 110 years. It was designated an historical national landmark in 1980. Maybe enjoying a chocolate custard from Abbotts and a walk on the pier was enough if a distraction for any child or adult.

What happened to SeaBreeze and Roseland?

Roseland is long gone. Seabreeze Park is still a huge summer destination. Seabreeze had its own century old carousel destroyed in a fire in 1994. It is amazing to me that seabreeze park survived Covid. they were closed all of 2020 and their season only runs from May to September.

My family took my up for a trip the last week and last days roseland was open want to say 1984 or so. Miss the log flume ride at SeaBreeze. Went to my aunts funeral probably 15yrs ago and looked like SeaBreeze was permanently closed but not tore down but it was Jan/Feb so wasn’t sure. Was living in NYC at that point. Waterfront real estate don’t work anymore for amusement park economics.

Seabreeze does not have any water front. it is damn close and you can see the lake. It simply has the charm of a very small amusement park that has been there forever. I think the Jack Rabbit is one of the oldest wooden rollercoasters still around. They call it a "gully coaster" because it was built into a ravine. I drive by Seabreeze almost every day. It is a desolate looking place in January. I like looking at the ice on Lake Onterio and watching the bikers racing on the ice on Irondequoit Bay.

I know but it’s like a 2 block walk w views.

[PizzaSnake]

If your not from Rochester the Ontario Beach Park experience that we all call going up to Shalot is a truly local experience. The carousel has always been a part of the experience for the young folks. For myself it was always a chocolate custard at Abbotts. If you have never had one you don't know what your missing. A walk over to the beach and then a walk on the pier. You bring a bag of stale bread and feed the ducks. You watch all the boats coming in and out the Genesee River to and from Lake Ontario. You take your kids to the playground, you toss a frisbee, or a football or bring your mitts and play catch. The volleyball nets are up on the beach. If the Lake is having a good day you can even go swimming. I didn't think about the carousel until the fit hit the shan there a few years ago. I guess i am not an astute observer of what goes on around me. I can't recall how many times I have been to that carousel and never noticed those art panels inside. I do know a poster here said he had walked past that statue of Teddy R a number of times never paying close attention to it. The memories don't change for me. The fun my kids had riding that carousel are priceless. They aint young for that long so you cherish all those memories your given.

FTR, 2015 is when everybody became aware of the racist artwork. It became a big deal when the city wanted it removed. The fact that the carousel was a historic national landmark made removing it a very complicated procedure. You can't just remove anything from a historic national landmark without jumping through a lot of hoops.

“ I guess i am not an astute observer of what goes on around me.”

Petard?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Maybe we should have just used some C4 and blown up the sculpture in question???? That is what the Thallllybhan would do and did.

I'm ok with that for Stone Mountain, though doubt it would be so crude.
Stone Mountain ain't a UNESCO World Heritage site and will never be one.
It's a monument to slavery, white supremacy, and sedition.
I guess for some that's a "religion"...

But Salty's free to explain his intent. We merely asked...

I'm guessing you didn't read my link to the Dentzel Carousel at Charlotte Beach? Read it and get back to me. The carousel has been designated as a historical national landmark. Sooooo you have no problem with removing that panel until your vision of " proper context" is defined? Even if it took a 110 years for anybody to notice it.

Yeah, I don't know hardly anything about your Carousel or the issue at hand, but I'd wager that this wasn't just "noticed" now...I'd wager it was noticed aplenty but no one thought it worthy to listen, and paling in comparison to other 'symbols' offensiveness so didn't draw much attention when there were much worse 'symbols' to focus on...believe me, Aunt Jemima wasn't first noticed to be offensive in the wake of George Floyd, it just wasn't being listened to by the white majority. That's what's really changed, more white folks willing to listen and consider taking action. Eyes more open, hearts more open.

I'd have to know more about the particular issue of the Carousel, options to address...my first instinct is usually to think about ways that things can be preserved for further education, not destroyed. Not always worth preserving, though, and certainly not always worth presenting in a place of honor.

Doesn't sound like that's what going on with this panel, so perhaps some signage that actually draws attention and delivers real educational value would suffice. If not, then removal of the single panel could well be appropriate...but there are indeed hoops to go through if designated as an historical landmark. So, I'd look first to addressing it through an educational exhibit and signage.

Read the damn link and educate yourself. YES it took that long before someone noticed that one panel. So your back to your same dumb ass original point... Just provide some historical perspective and context and everything will be just fine.

I clicked through all your links, cradle, I don't see anything confirming that no one noticed the offensiveness of this panel until just now. Perhaps I missed something, so feel free to re-link and point it out where they know that to be the case...the only thing I see is a guy named Brandon Fagan saying he'd visited there many times and hadn't noticed it...he goes on to say he doesn't see anything racist about it...ok Brandon Fagan doesn't get it.

But then we see a link TLD provided from 2015...that's pre-BLM and all the heightened interest in such symbols that goes into great detail as to why the panel is so offensive...as I said, I'd "wager" that just now isn't the first time someone noticed and was offended (won that wager)...indeed, I'd be willing to bet that it was noticed many, many times over many decades...but voicing that offense had costs.

Maybe somebody did notice it MD. The chit never hit the fan publicly until recently. I said before, I rode this carousel when I was young. The typical warm summer day was ride the bus to Charlotte Beach ( pronounced Shalott Beach by us locals) you grab an ice cream cone from Abbotts, chocolate custard thank you, then head to the we were looking to ride the carousel, we were not looking for racist panels. I did the same damn thing with my sons MD. I never paid attention to this artwork. If any person ever complained about this panel before it never made the news. Rochester is about as liberal a city as you will find. This is not the kind of issue that gets swept under the rug. I admit when the pictures of this artwork hit the news, I was just as stunned as anybody. They could not be more inappropriate. In 1980 this carousel was granted status as an historical national landmark. IMO when you look at this marvelous carousel and the beautiful hand carved horses, that is all you notice. The question now was what to do with this panel? You could not destroy it. IMO there is no historical context that can properly explain it 110 years down the road.

FTR, the panel was removed and put into storage somewhere. IMO the panel should have been kept at the carousel in another location with a plaque describing its history at the carousel and informing visitors to its racist history and why it was removed. I'm certainly not trying to defend the picture. I will say that to my knowledge for many decades nobody noticed it.

You leaving a Swastika up there and two kids in striped pajamas, wise one?

About as idiotic an analogy to be made. You ever take your kid for a ride on a merry go round? The kids are more excited about what animal they want to ride.

You didn’t answer the question. You a kid?

Why answer an idiot question put forth by a moron?

Because you are an adult that should know better and not a child…maybe?

I have not the slightest idea what your talking about. I just figured you were busting my balls as you tend to from time to time. Maybe you can explain to my feeble old mind what your point was? You lost me with Nazi swastikas and striped pajamas. That is when I stopped taking you seriously.

It’s a simple question. If a panel had those images (swastika and kids in stripped pajamas) do you believe it should stay in place or is a pickaninny with a sambo peeking around the corner with a chicken in front of them different? If so, in what way?

[jhu72]

Current SCOTUS affirmative action case uses Asian-American students to support a white supremacist position against the less well off people of color, including Asian-Americans.

[cradleandshoot]

Maybe we should have just used some C4 and blown up the sculpture in question???? That is what the Thallllybhan would do and did.

I'm ok with that for Stone Mountain, though doubt it would be so crude.
Stone Mountain ain't a UNESCO World Heritage site and will never be one.
It's a monument to slavery, white supremacy, and sedition.
I guess for some that's a "religion"...

But Salty's free to explain his intent. We merely asked...

I'm guessing you didn't read my link to the Dentzel Carousel at Charlotte Beach? Read it and get back to me. The carousel has been designated as a historical national landmark. Sooooo you have no problem with removing that panel until your vision of " proper context" is defined? Even if it took a 110 years for anybody to notice it.

Yeah, I don't know hardly anything about your Carousel or the issue at hand, but I'd wager that this wasn't just "noticed" now...I'd wager it was noticed aplenty but no one thought it worthy to listen, and paling in comparison to other 'symbols' offensiveness so didn't draw much attention when there were much worse 'symbols' to focus on...believe me, Aunt Jemima wasn't first noticed to be offensive in the wake of George Floyd, it just wasn't being listened to by the white majority. That's what's really changed, more white folks willing to listen and consider taking action. Eyes more open, hearts more open.

I'd have to know more about the particular issue of the Carousel, options to address...my first instinct is usually to think about ways that things can be preserved for further education, not destroyed. Not always worth preserving, though, and certainly not always worth presenting in a place of honor.

Doesn't sound like that's what going on with this panel, so perhaps some signage that actually draws attention and delivers real educational value would suffice. If not, then removal of the single panel could well be appropriate...but there are indeed hoops to go through if designated as an historical landmark. So, I'd look first to addressing it through an educational exhibit and signage.

Read the damn link and educate yourself. YES it took that long before someone noticed that one panel. So your back to your same dumb ass original point... Just provide some historical perspective and context and everything will be just fine.

I clicked through all your links, cradle, I don't see anything confirming that no one noticed the offensiveness of this panel until just now. Perhaps I missed something, so feel free to re-link and point it out where they know that to be the case...the only thing I see is a guy named Brandon Fagan saying he'd visited there many times and hadn't noticed it...he goes on to say he doesn't see anything racist about it...ok Brandon Fagan doesn't get it.

But then we see a link TLD provided from 2015...that's pre-BLM and all the heightened interest in such symbols that goes into great detail as to why the panel is so offensive...as I said, I'd "wager" that just now isn't the first time someone noticed and was offended (won that wager)...indeed, I'd be willing to bet that it was noticed many, many times over many decades...but voicing that offense had costs.

Maybe somebody did notice it MD. The chit never hit the fan publicly until recently. I said before, I rode this carousel when I was young. The typical warm summer day was ride the bus to Charlotte Beach ( pronounced Shalott Beach by us locals) you grab an ice cream cone from Abbotts, chocolate custard thank you, then head to the we were looking to ride the carousel, we were not looking for racist panels. I did the same damn thing with my sons MD. I never paid attention to this artwork. If any person ever complained about this panel before it never made the news. Rochester is about as liberal a city as you will find. This is not the kind of issue that gets swept under the rug. I admit when the pictures of this artwork hit the news, I was just as stunned as anybody. They could not be more inappropriate. In 1980 this carousel was granted status as an historical national landmark. IMO when you look at this marvelous carousel and the beautiful hand carved horses, that is all you notice. The question now was what to do with this panel? You could not destroy it. IMO there is no historical context that can properly explain it 110 years down the road.

FTR, the panel was removed and put into storage somewhere. IMO the panel should have been kept at the carousel in another location with a plaque describing its history at the carousel and informing visitors to its racist history and why it was removed. I'm certainly not trying to defend the picture. I will say that to my knowledge for many decades nobody noticed it.

You leaving a Swastika up there and two kids in striped pajamas, wise one?

About as idiotic an analogy to be made. You ever take your kid for a ride on a merry go round? The kids are more excited about what animal they want to ride.

You didn’t answer the question. You a kid?

Why answer an idiot question put forth by a moron?

Because you are an adult that should know better and not a child…maybe?

I have not the slightest idea what your talking about. I just figured you were busting my balls as you tend to from time to time. Maybe you can explain to my feeble old mind what your point was? You lost me with Nazi swastikas and striped pajamas. That is when I stopped taking you seriously.

It’s a simple question. If a panel had those images (swastika and kids in stripped pajamas) do you believe it should stay in place or is a pickaninny with a sambo peeking around the corner with a chicken in front of them different? If so, in what way?

Your making a nonsensical analogy. To my knowledge there were no swastikas or striped clothes or for that matter there were no Nazis in 1907 when the carousel was installed. 99.9999% of everybody taking their kids there were only focused on one thing watching your kid ride his or her favorite animal. When the picture became common knowledge because of the internet and cell phones with cameras there was a mad scramble by local leaders to do something about it. They started for a period of time by keeping the panel covered by a tarp. Since this carousel is a registered historical national land mark simply taking the panel down was not an option. They had to go through all the proper channels to make that happen. This historical status happened in 1980, how this panel was missed at that time is a fair and logical question. I remember when I was a kid there were houses all over that had those brightly painted cement lawn jockeys in their front yards. Most of them had black faces not painted in a flattering way holding those lanterns. I know you don't see them anymore.. ever. I remember there use to be a chain restaurant locally called " Sambos" Folks ate their bacon and eggs there for years clueless to the racist background behind that name. Americans not being aware of the subliminal racism that existed in the world around them was tolerated and accepted for decades. Why, I have no idea.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Maybe we should have just used some C4 and blown up the sculpture in question???? That is what the Thallllybhan would do and did.

I'm ok with that for Stone Mountain, though doubt it would be so crude.
Stone Mountain ain't a UNESCO World Heritage site and will never be one.
It's a monument to slavery, white supremacy, and sedition.
I guess for some that's a "religion"...

But Salty's free to explain his intent. We merely asked...

I'm guessing you didn't read my link to the Dentzel Carousel at Charlotte Beach? Read it and get back to me. The carousel has been designated as a historical national landmark. Sooooo you have no problem with removing that panel until your vision of " proper context" is defined? Even if it took a 110 years for anybody to notice it.

Yeah, I don't know hardly anything about your Carousel or the issue at hand, but I'd wager that this wasn't just "noticed" now...I'd wager it was noticed aplenty but no one thought it worthy to listen, and paling in comparison to other 'symbols' offensiveness so didn't draw much attention when there were much worse 'symbols' to focus on...believe me, Aunt Jemima wasn't first noticed to be offensive in the wake of George Floyd, it just wasn't being listened to by the white majority. That's what's really changed, more white folks willing to listen and consider taking action. Eyes more open, hearts more open.

I'd have to know more about the particular issue of the Carousel, options to address...my first instinct is usually to think about ways that things can be preserved for further education, not destroyed. Not always worth preserving, though, and certainly not always worth presenting in a place of honor.

Doesn't sound like that's what going on with this panel, so perhaps some signage that actually draws attention and delivers real educational value would suffice. If not, then removal of the single panel could well be appropriate...but there are indeed hoops to go through if designated as an historical landmark. So, I'd look first to addressing it through an educational exhibit and signage.

Read the damn link and educate yourself. YES it took that long before someone noticed that one panel. So your back to your same dumb ass original point... Just provide some historical perspective and context and everything will be just fine.

I clicked through all your links, cradle, I don't see anything confirming that no one noticed the offensiveness of this panel until just now. Perhaps I missed something, so feel free to re-link and point it out where they know that to be the case...the only thing I see is a guy named Brandon Fagan saying he'd visited there many times and hadn't noticed it...he goes on to say he doesn't see anything racist about it...ok Brandon Fagan doesn't get it.

But then we see a link TLD provided from 2015...that's pre-BLM and all the heightened interest in such symbols that goes into great detail as to why the panel is so offensive...as I said, I'd "wager" that just now isn't the first time someone noticed and was offended (won that wager)...indeed, I'd be willing to bet that it was noticed many, many times over many decades...but voicing that offense had costs.

Maybe somebody did notice it MD. The chit never hit the fan publicly until recently. I said before, I rode this carousel when I was young. The typical warm summer day was ride the bus to Charlotte Beach ( pronounced Shalott Beach by us locals) you grab an ice cream cone from Abbotts, chocolate custard thank you, then head to the we were looking to ride the carousel, we were not looking for racist panels. I did the same damn thing with my sons MD. I never paid attention to this artwork. If any person ever complained about this panel before it never made the news. Rochester is about as liberal a city as you will find. This is not the kind of issue that gets swept under the rug. I admit when the pictures of this artwork hit the news, I was just as stunned as anybody. They could not be more inappropriate. In 1980 this carousel was granted status as an historical national landmark. IMO when you look at this marvelous carousel and the beautiful hand carved horses, that is all you notice. The question now was what to do with this panel? You could not destroy it. IMO there is no historical context that can properly explain it 110 years down the road.

FTR, the panel was removed and put into storage somewhere. IMO the panel should have been kept at the carousel in another location with a plaque describing its history at the carousel and informing visitors to its racist history and why it was removed. I'm certainly not trying to defend the picture. I will say that to my knowledge for many decades nobody noticed it.

You leaving a Swastika up there and two kids in striped pajamas, wise one?

About as idiotic an analogy to be made. You ever take your kid for a ride on a merry go round? The kids are more excited about what animal they want to ride.

You didn’t answer the question. You a kid?

Why answer an idiot question put forth by a moron?

Because you are an adult that should know better and not a child…maybe?

I have not the slightest idea what your talking about. I just figured you were busting my balls as you tend to from time to time. Maybe you can explain to my feeble old mind what your point was? You lost me with Nazi swastikas and striped pajamas. That is when I stopped taking you seriously.

It’s a simple question. If a panel had those images (swastika and kids in stripped pajamas) do you believe it should stay in place or is a pickaninny with a sambo peeking around the corner with a chicken in front of them different? If so, in what way?

Your making a nonsensical analogy. To my knowledge there were no swastikas or striped clothes or for that matter there were no Nazis in 1907 when the carousel was installed. 99.9999% of everybody taking their kids there were only focused on one thing watching your kid ride his or her favorite animal. When the picture became common knowledge because of the internet and cell phones with cameras there was a mad scramble by local leaders to do something about it. They started for a period of time by keeping the panel covered by a tarp. Since this carousel is a registered historical national land mark simply taking the panel down was not an option. They had to go through all the proper channels to make that happen. This historical status happened in 1980, how this panel was missed at that time is a fair and logical question. I remember when I was a kid there were houses all over that had those brightly painted cement lawn jockeys in their front yards. Most of them had black faces not painted in a flattering way holding those lanterns. I know you don't see them anymore.. ever. I remember there use to be a chain restaurant locally called " Sambos" Folks ate their bacon and eggs there for years clueless to the racist background behind that name. Americans not being aware of the subliminal racism that existed in the world around them was tolerated and accepted for decades. Why, I have no idea.

I was asking a hypothetical. I wasn’t asking Americans a question. I was asking you. Easy enough question. You ever eat at Sambos?