January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Question: was there any meaningful link between Trump or members of his Administration or his or RNC lawyers and the false certifications received from the seven states?

https://www.inquirer.com/opinion/fake-e ... 20113.html

"On Dec. 14, 2020, 20 prominent Pennsylvania Democrats gathered in Harrisburg — in a ceremony shorn of some of its pomp and circumstance because of COVID-19, but witnessed by a gaggle of reporters — to cast the state’s Electoral College votes for the president-elect, Joe Biden. They dropped their ballots in a wooden box designed by Benjamin Franklin.

Then-Secretary of State Kathy Boockvar, who had certified that Biden defeated Donald Trump here by more than 80,000 votes, told the gathering, “Today you will follow the tradition of the first Electoral College that convened in Pennsylvania 231 years ago and cast your votes based on the outcome of that election, to carry out the will of the voters of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.”

But at another undisclosed location in Harrisburg, with no press coverage, a band of 20 top state Republicans had other ideas. Meeting at what they said was “the request of the Trump campaign,” the GOP luminaries — including two men now running for governor, former Congressman Lou Barletta and consultant Charlie Gerow — cast what they called “a procedural vote” that claimed Trump as the winner. The documentation claimed the ballots were cast just in case a court ruling or some other proceeding overturned Biden’s victory.

The existence of this vote was not a secret. It was even heralded by the Pennsylvania Republican Party in a news release, and mentioned by The Inquirer that day. But what wasn’t yet known on Dec. 14, 2020, was the full extent of plotting among Trump’s inner circle to have Vice President Mike Pence and Congress somehow invalidate Biden victories in battleground states like Pennsylvania — or that a violent pro-Trump mob would overrun the Capitol on Jan. 6, in an attempted coup to stop the certification of the legitimate electors."

A violent pro Trump mob??? GMAB, it was also then a violent mob that crashed the fence at Woodstock. That is quite the well coordinated coup attempt. When these effing idiots actually found their way inside the Capital building they wandered around aimlessly like lost children at Disneyland. I thought rule #1 of a coup would be to have a plan to achieve an objective. If these morons actually had a plan or an objective they sure did a great job keeping it so secret that even the violent Trump mob was unaware of it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-55975442

You could not find a more relevant link??

It’s relevant. Thats the unfortunate part

I guess not all coups are created equal.

Now you are using your brain.

[old salt]

When asked what Pres Biden can do to pivot to save himself & reverse his falling approval ratings,
(D) pollster Mark Penn recommended he pardon all the non-violent Jan 6th protesters.

[seacoaster]

Man, lookit Cradle...he really OWNS us libs and all the FLP's around here. He's just ya outright Legend in His Own Mind!

..

Reading is fundamental. Sigh….

Question for you counselor. I won't reply until you give me an answer. Your telling me that the individuals that stormed into the Capital building were all a part of a coup to overthrow an election if not the government. If your half the lawyer I think you are, you should already know my next question to you.

Sorry, mate, I missed this yesterday. I have, I have to say, tried to explain this to you several times already.

The folks who assaulted the Capitol were a small part of this -- an important piece of performance art to show the consequences of the efforts of GOP operatives, lawyers, and political functionaries working to impede the implementation of the votes of the states and the electoral college. You are focused for some reason on the folks at the Capitol as a "fighting force," in any sense resembling the force you worked and fought with during your service years. Of course, they were not an integrated battalion working with immediate command structure, etc., etc. This misses the real point, in my opinion.

You've been led to this apparent mono-focus, maybe, by the unvarnished access to and use of your "common sense," and perhaps by folks that want you to overlook real (il)legal and legislative planning, like Eastman, Navarro, the Trumps, the people who presented false certifications of votes of the states to Congress, the people who supported and underwrote that effort, and the myriad GOP Congressmen who supported nothing less than a countermanding of the popular and electoral votes of the nation. Do you not understand that the assault on January 6 was one of the results of an effort to overturn an election by the President of the United States?

[dislaxxic]

Do you not understand that the assault on January 6 was one of the results of an effort to overturn an election by the President of the United States?

You have the patience of Job, seacoaster. Good ON ya. Thanks for trying. Again.

Sadly, i don't think he does understand this, even a little bit. But that's the cross we bear around here isn't it, trying to cut thru the partisan lying, grifting trumpist fog...

..

[cradleandshoot]

Man, lookit Cradle...he really OWNS us libs and all the FLP's around here. He's just ya outright Legend in His Own Mind!

..

Reading is fundamental. Sigh….

Question for you counselor. I won't reply until you give me an answer. Your telling me that the individuals that stormed into the Capital building were all a part of a coup to overthrow an election if not the government. If your half the lawyer I think you are, you should already know my next question to you.

Sorry, mate, I missed this yesterday. I have, I have to say, tried to explain this to you several times already.

The folks who assaulted the Capitol were a small part of this -- an important piece of performance art to show the consequences of the efforts of GOP operatives, lawyers, and political functionaries working to impede the implementation of the votes of the states and the electoral college. You are focused for some reason on the folks at the Capitol as a "fighting force," in any sense resembling the force you worked and fought with during your service years. Of course, they were not an integrated battalion working with immediate command structure, etc., etc. This misses the real point, in my opinion.

You've been led to this apparent mono-focus, maybe, by the unvarnished access to and use of your "common sense," and perhaps by folks that want you to overlook real (il)legal and legislative planning, like Eastman, Navarro, the Trumps, the people who presented false certifications of votes of the states to Congress, the people who supported and underwrote that effort, and the myriad GOP Congressmen who supported nothing less than a countermanding of the popular and electoral votes of the nation. Do you not understand that the assault on January 6 was one of the results of an effort to overturn an election by the President of the United States?

So my reply to you counselor on the first issue... What was the objective of the initial attack on our Capital? If as you claim this was an assault and an attempted coup, where is your pooooof? Explain to us all HOW your pathetic ass coup theory was going to succeed? The only person who could validate your theory was VP Mike Pence. Common sense is something you may want to consider in your perspective on life. If in your opinion the attack on the Capital was the threat to our country and attempted coup, why didnt the capital police treat these FRC anarchists as such? Your saying out of one side of your mouth how dangerous these protesters were. The other side of your mouth that the Capital police should have not attempted to stop these dangerous people from storming our Capital. I already made my opinion clear about how these FRC protesters should have been dealt with counselor. One of them attempting to gain access was shot dead in her tracks. I agree 100% the officer did the right thing. where were you defending my opinion counselor????? Your friends on this forum ridiculed me for wanting to "shoot them down" i don't recall you defending my position counselor. If these people, as you claim were attempting a "coup" on our government, why wasn't the use of lethal force authorized?

[cradleandshoot]

Do you not understand that the assault on January 6 was one of the results of an effort to overturn an election by the President of the United States?

You have the patience of Job, seacoaster. Good ON ya. Thanks for trying. Again.

Sadly, i don't think he does understand this, even a little bit. But that's the cross we bear around here isn't it, trying to cut thru the partisan lying, grifting trumpist fog...

..

I was going to respond to your nonsense Dis. Then i realized the futility of responding to FLP stupid chit. I found the perfect spot in your honor to plant my daisies this spring.

[MDlaxfan76]

cradle, if you don't bother to read what people have written, many times, you really shouldn't keep attacking them, misrepresenting their prior explanations and arguments.

[cradleandshoot]

Man, lookit Cradle...he really OWNS us libs and all the FLP's around here. He's just ya outright Legend in His Own Mind!

..

Reading is fundamental. Sigh….

Question for you counselor. I won't reply until you give me an answer. Your telling me that the individuals that stormed into the Capital building were all a part of a coup to overthrow an election if not the government. If your half the lawyer I think you are, you should already know my next question to you.
[/quote
Sorry, mate, I missed this yesterday. I have, I have to say, tried to explain this to you several times already.

The folks who assaulted the Capitol were a small part of this -- an important piece of performance art to show the consequences of the efforts of GOP operatives, lawyers, and political functionaries working to impede the implementation of the votes of the states and the electoral college. You are focused for some reason on the folks at the Capitol as a "fighting force," in any sense resembling the force you worked and fought with during your service years. Of course, they were not an integrated battalion working with immediate command structure, etc., etc. This misses the real point, in my opinion.

You've been led to this apparent mono-focus, maybe, by the unvarnished access to and use of your "common sense," and perhaps by folks that want you to overlook real (il)legal and legislative planning, like Eastman, Navarro, the Trumps, the people who presented false certifications of votes of the states to Congress, the people who supported and underwrote that effort, and the myriad GOP Congressmen who supported nothing less than a countermanding of the popular and electoral votes of the nation. Do you not understand that the assault on January 6 was one of the results of an effort to overturn an election by the President of the United States?

Sorry counselor, your not on a retainer, I am not paying for your free advise. When ANY lawyer starts lecturing me in the art of legal bullchit, i consider the source of the criticism... My question still stands, were these dumbass, hillbilly rednecks part of a coup to overthrown an election? Maybe your mistake is in your use of terminology. You may have a point if your telling me these hillbilly rednecks wanted to make a lame ass attempt to reverse the election. If your trying to convince me these people were attempting a coup... taking a chit in the halls of Congress is about as lame as it gets if you want to reverse election results. My opinion still is the same. On 1/6/21 the Capital police had every legal authority to use lethal force to prevent these FRC scum from entering our nations capital. If as YOU claim this was an attempt to over ride the election of the POTUS... why didn't the Capital police take the threat seriously? You are the person counselor making the claim of a coup. Explain to us why the Capital police allowed the breach of the US Capital by people intent on overthrowing our election? Lethal force should have been authorized and would have been justified. That is if we are to believe YOUR claim that this protest was an attempted coup...

[cradleandshoot]

cradle, if you don't bother to read what people have written, many tis, you really shouldn't keep attacking them, misrepresenting their prior explanations and arguments.

Thank you for your kind advice... I guess i am the red haired step child here MD. A bunch of dumb ass red neck hillbillies breached our nations capital on 1/6/21. Your good friends here are screaming at me telling me this was an attempted coup and an attempt to reverse the election of the new POTUS. I still maintain the same effing opinion I have had all along. Especially since your friends here maintain this was an attempted coup. The people that attempted to enter our nations capital on 1/6/21 should have been given ONE WARNING. That is assuming there is a PA system at our nations capital. THIS PROTEST HAS BEEN DETERMINED TO BE A THREAT TO NATIONAL SECURITY. YOU HAVE 5 MINUTES TO LEAVE THE GROUNDS OF THE US CAPITAL. THE USE OF LETHAL FORCE HAS BEEN AUTHORIZED..... I am attacking the same thing I have said all along MD. These mother effers should NEVER have been allowed to enter our Capital building. If that meant them being shot down with the use of lethal force, then so be it. Of course those optics would not have played out all that well would they MD? When i was in the the army and doing division guard at heavy drop rigging there were 4 of us guards. Two at the front gate and two of us at the back dock. We were all armed with shotguns and radios. What we were guarding was a fenced in area of vehicles that were fully equipped with every type of ammunition that would be needed and deployed in 24 hours. You name it brother, TOW Missiles with optical trackers, mortar rounds, artillery rounds, M60 machine guns, 50 Caliber machine guns, hand grenades, claymore mines LAW rockets and untold thousands of rounds of small arms ammunition. We were nothing more than a tripwire. Anybody wanting to attack this facility would have killed us in about 2 seconds flat. What we would have done was send a message over our radio for the cavalry to show up. I would have died trying to guard my post. I would not have wanted to, but those were our orders. We understood the importance of why we were there. I wonder why the capital police were not aware of what their mission was that day? They had one mission, to protect the nations capital and the people inside. I don't blame the capital police, i blame the higher ups that did not let them do their job that day.

[RedFromMI]

Cradle - there are two things at issue with the Capitol attack.

One, the Oath Keepers group was actually intending to occupy the Capitol, including bringing stored arms over from Arlington VA hotels if needed, to forcibly stop the final receiving of the EC votes and confirm Biden as president. There is ample recent reporting about their intent, modeled loosely after methods used in Serbia to force Milosovich out of power. Supplies were there for a small force to be supplied for some time.

Whether it was anything more than a fever dream is actually material to prosecuting them, and they have been charged in this case with crimes including seditious conspiracy. It is not yet known publicly how much "encouragement, etc" they were getting from people more directly connected to Trump (say Roger Stone or Rudy Giuliani). They did not need their arms as others (the angry mob incited by Trump et al earlier) actually broke in for them, but they were observed entering in phalanx formations and from the release videos of people moving within the Capitol after the break in seemed to know where they were going. Speculation is tough here, but some of the people inside the Capitol had in their mind to capture/kill Pence and a number of prominent Democrats...

Two, the Trump crowd (including Giuliani and Powell) were not getting any traction in their attempt to overturn particular state elections (GA, PA, AZ, WI, etc) so there seems to be some desire to use the protests to get Congress to delay their duty to finish certifying the election. Then the hope seems to be to actually get some court(s) to override or get Pence to override to force the direct election via the House of Representatives, where the Rs hold the majority of delegations and then would elect Trump. Pressure was what they wanted, and a mob scene was what they got.

The actions of Trump in the WH after the violence is pretty telling - he is reported (multiple ways) to have been delighted, and seems to have ignored for some considerable time suggestions from his own staff and daughter to intercede earlier to call off the violence.

IMHO, the only issues at hand are how deep the criminality/conspiracy, and whether it can be successfully prosecuted.

[cradleandshoot]

Cradle - there are two things at issue with the Capitol attack.

One, the Oath Keepers group was actually intending to occupy the Capitol, including bringing stored arms over from Arlington VA hotels if needed, to forcibly stop the final receiving of the EC votes and confirm Biden as president. There is ample recent reporting about their intent, modeled loosely after methods used in Serbia to force Milosovich out of power. Supplies were there for a small force to be supplied for some time.

Whether it was anything more than a fever dream is actually material to prosecuting them, and they have been charged in this case with crimes including seditious conspiracy. It is not yet known publicly how much "encouragement, etc" they were getting from people more directly connected to Trump (say Roger Stone or Rudy Giuliani). They did not need their arms as others (the angry mob incited by Trump et al earlier) actually broke in for them, but they were observed entering in phalanx formations and from the release videos of people moving within the Capitol after the break in seemed to know where they were going. Speculation is tough here, but some of the people inside the Capitol had in their mind to capture/kill Pence and a number of prominent Democrats...

Two, the Trump crowd (including Giuliani and Powell) were not getting any traction in their attempt to overturn particular state elections (GA, PA, AZ, WI, etc) so there seems to be some desire to use the protests to get Congress to delay their duty to finish certifying the election. Then the hope seems to be to actually get some court(s) to override or get Pence to override to force the direct election via the House of Representatives, where the Rs hold the majority of delegations and then would elect Trump. Pressure was what they wanted, and a mob scene was what they got.

The actions of Trump in the WH after the violence is pretty telling - he is reported (multiple ways) to have been delighted, and seems to have ignored for some considerable time suggestions from his own staff and daughter to intercede earlier to call off the violence.

IMHO, the only issues at hand are how deep the criminality/conspiracy, and whether it can be successfully prosecuted.

I understand your point. Then prosecute these people and throw them in jail for life if convicted. The problem is, trying to prosecute these people becomes a convoluted chitshow. I am what I have always considered a good American. i served my country with integrity, loyalty and dedication. When i saw these people on 1/6 desecrating our nations capital waving the American flag I was mad and angry beyond words. I still am today. Something changed between when i served and what these traitorous people did that day. I may disagree with POTUS Biden but i will be damned if anybody claiming to be an American does not think he won a fair and honest election. Maybe this country has become FUBAR?

[RedFromMI]

Report: Trump Had Secret WH Meetings In Days Before Insurrection, Grisham Told Jan. 6 Panel

From TalkingPointsMemo.com

Former White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham shared some new details of what ex-President Donald Trump was up to pre-Capitol insurrection with the House Jan. 6 Select Committee during her interview in early January, according to the Guardian.

Grisham told the committee that Trump held off-the-books meetings at the White House that apparently only a few staffers knew about and were mostly scheduled by then-White House chief of staff Mark Meadows, the Guardian reports.

The former press secretary reportedly told the committee that she wasn’t sure who went to the meetings. However, she directed the panel toward former chief usher Timothy Harleth, who Grisham said waved the meeting participants upstairs to the gatherings, according to the Guardian.

Grisham also reportedly told the committee which White House documents would be useful for certain questions in the panel’s investigation. Specifically, the former Trump aide pointed to the presidential line-by-line, a document that tracks the President’s movements and gets sent to the Secret Service, the Guardian reports.

Additionally, Grisham reportedly discussed how the White House and the Secret Service coordinated plans with the organizers of the pre-insurrection rally for Trump to speak at the event.

drip, drip, drip...

[MDlaxfan76]

cradle, as a reminder, I'm one of those who constructively engaged with you on your ire about the violence on Jan 6, your insistence on a much harsher violent response from the Capitol Police, your critique of the tactics.

I don't see the point in re-hashing those discussions, which were largely reasonable and thorough, however a couple of thoughts.

We cannot prove the counterfactual of what would have happened if the Capitol Police had opened full fire on the mob, not knowing whether the mob was armed with guns as well. Would they have been overrun, losing their positions and their lives and failing to stop the mob long enough to evacuate the VP, Congress and their staff, with a blood bath instead? Dunno...or would it have meant hundreds or more of dead Americans on the steps of the Capitol?

We'll never know.

But that discussion of What Ifs is not material to the recognition of the intent of those involved, whether those in the mob more generally, or the most violent vanguard, or the coordination with those seeking any pretense, at any cost, to overthrow the election results.

In the opinion of many posters on here, though certainly very serious, the violent mob was the least important part of the coup attempt. This least important part involved low-level violent conspirators and/or the witless 'cultish' followers of Trump and the Big Lie....however, if they were also coordinating with the far more important seditionists as may well be the case with some, then those directing and coordinating with them are the more serious criminals.

But the Most serious criminals need not have directly coordinated the violence...these most serious criminals are those who created and promoted the Big Lie and who coordinated to overthrow the election results on false pretenses of such.

And those aiding and abetting their crimes by providing 'cover' for them during or thereafter make themselves complicit as well.

I want every single one of the people to be punished as severely as legally permissible for these crimes.

[seacoaster]

Man, lookit Cradle...he really OWNS us libs and all the FLP's around here. He's just ya outright Legend in His Own Mind!

..

Reading is fundamental. Sigh….

Question for you counselor. I won't reply until you give me an answer. Your telling me that the individuals that stormed into the Capital building were all a part of a coup to overthrow an election if not the government. If your half the lawyer I think you are, you should already know my next question to you.
[/quote
Sorry, mate, I missed this yesterday. I have, I have to say, tried to explain this to you several times already.

The folks who assaulted the Capitol were a small part of this -- an important piece of performance art to show the consequences of the efforts of GOP operatives, lawyers, and political functionaries working to impede the implementation of the votes of the states and the electoral college. You are focused for some reason on the folks at the Capitol as a "fighting force," in any sense resembling the force you worked and fought with during your service years. Of course, they were not an integrated battalion working with immediate command structure, etc., etc. This misses the real point, in my opinion.

You've been led to this apparent mono-focus, maybe, by the unvarnished access to and use of your "common sense," and perhaps by folks that want you to overlook real (il)legal and legislative planning, like Eastman, Navarro, the Trumps, the people who presented false certifications of votes of the states to Congress, the people who supported and underwrote that effort, and the myriad GOP Congressmen who supported nothing less than a countermanding of the popular and electoral votes of the nation. Do you not understand that the assault on January 6 was one of the results of an effort to overturn an election by the President of the United States?

Sorry counselor, your not on a retainer, I am not paying for your free advise. When ANY lawyer starts lecturing me in the art of legal bullchit, i consider the source of the criticism... My question still stands, were these dumbass, hillbilly rednecks part of a coup to overthrown an election? Maybe your mistake is in your use of terminology. You may have a point if your telling me these hillbilly rednecks wanted to make a lame ass attempt to reverse the election. If your trying to convince me these people were attempting a coup... taking a chit in the halls of Congress is about as lame as it gets if you want to reverse election results. My opinion still is the same. On 1/6/21 the Capital police had every legal authority to use lethal force to prevent these FRC scum from entering our nations capital. If as YOU claim this was an attempt to over ride the election of the POTUS... why didn't the Capital police take the threat seriously? You are the person counselor making the claim of a coup. Explain to us why the Capital police allowed the breach of the US Capital by people intent on overthrowing our election? Lethal force should have been authorized and would have been justified. That is if we are to believe YOUR claim that this protest was an attempted coup...

I made a mistake: I thought you might want a dialogue, even if it was one destined to end in disagreement.

Do you not realize that you are saying the same thing, over and over and over, and folks keep trying to help you see a larger portrait of what was happening?

Your suggestion -- apparently; it's hard to know what you are really saying here -- that the Capitol Police use lethal force against this crowd is one of the dumbest things you have said here, and that is really saying something. Piling up the dead and injured, made up of the poor fools who were unwittingly euchred into doing this really stupid and un-American thing, would have been the worst sort of outcome for the Capitol Police and the country. Their restraint was purposeful and remarkable. And again, you maybe deliberately -- it's hard to know -- miss the point about what exactly was the "coup" attempt part of this.

[seacoaster]

C&S, I made a mistake: I thought you might want a dialogue, even if it was one destined to end in disagreement.

Do you not realize that you are saying the same thing, over and over and over, and folks keep trying to help you see a larger portrait of what was happening?

Your suggestion -- apparently; it's hard to know what you are really saying here -- that the Capitol Police use lethal force against this crowd is one of the dumbest things you have said here, and that is really saying something. Piling up the dead and injured, made up of the poor fools who were unwittingly euchred into doing this really stupid and un-American thing, would have been the worst sort of outcome for the Capitol Police and the country. Their restraint was purposeful and remarkable. And again, you maybe deliberately -- it's hard to know -- miss the point about what exactly was the "coup" attempt part of this.

[Typical Lax Dad]

C&S, I made a mistake: I thought you might want a dialogue, even if it was one destined to end in disagreement.

Do you not realize that you are saying the same thing, over and over and over, and folks keep trying to help you see a larger portrait of what was happening?

Your suggestion -- apparently; it's hard to know what you are really saying here -- that the Capitol Police use lethal force against this crowd is one of the dumbest things you have said here, and that is really saying something. Piling up the dead and injured, made up of the poor fools who were unwittingly euchred into doing this really stupid and un-American thing, would have been the worst sort of outcome for the Capitol Police and the country. Their restraint was purposeful and remarkable. And again, you maybe deliberately -- it's hard to know -- miss the point about what exactly was the "coup" attempt part of this.

C&S believes Officer Goodman should have emptied his clips.

[seacoaster]

Interesting:

https://www.justsecurity.org/79889/excl ... d-threats/

[ggait]

Cradle -- there was a riot. And then there was the coup attempt.

They are different. But they are related.

The coup is really the main event. It went on for months and had many different pieces. It was sprawling, crazy, outrageous, dangerous and (hopefully) found to be illegal.

The riot is just one piece of the coup attempt.

[cradleandshoot]

C&S, I made a mistake: I thought you might want a dialogue, even if it was one destined to end in disagreement.

Do you not realize that you are saying the same thing, over and over and over, and folks keep trying to help you see a larger portrait of what was happening?

Your suggestion -- apparently; it's hard to know what you are really saying here -- that the Capitol Police use lethal force against this crowd is one of the dumbest things you have said here, and that is really saying something. Piling up the dead and injured, made up of the poor fools who were unwittingly euchred into doing this really stupid and un-American thing, would have been the worst sort of outcome for the Capitol Police and the country. Their restraint was purposeful and remarkable. And again, you maybe deliberately -- it's hard to know -- miss the point about what exactly was the "coup" attempt part of this.

I keep telling you the same thing over and over and over counselor. Your the one telling me this was an attempt by a rabid horde of crazy FRC extremists to overturn a lawful election. They were an imminent threat to our nation and the constitution of the USA. The moment these people decided to break down the doors and storm our Capital they became a clear and present danger to our nation, that is interpreting YOUR definition of what these people were trying to accomplish. It should have taken ONE WARNING from the PA system at the Capital declaring the mob a threat to national security and the use of lethal force has been authorized. The mob should then have been ordered to cease and desist and immediately evacuate the grounds of the Capital building. What the unruly mob chose to do then would have been their decision. If you want to get really anal retentive about the threat of " lethal force" by the US Government just take a gander at those signs at the perimeter of Area 51. You think they f***ing don't mean they will shoot your ass if you try and trespass on that facility? You don't think I would have not your ass if you were going to trespass on my guard post at Heavy Drop rigging at Ft Bragg? I understand the high visibility optics of the protesters in front of the US Capital. The dynamics change the minute people decide to break into the building and become a threat to the people that run this country. I don't know what the rules of engagement were for the Capital police on that day. Clearly there should have been a warning given that the use of lethal force had been authorized and a very brief time frame given for the mob to disperse. If they chose to ignore those warnings then so be it.

[PizzaSnake]

C&S, I made a mistake: I thought you might want a dialogue, even if it was one destined to end in disagreement.

Do you not realize that you are saying the same thing, over and over and over, and folks keep trying to help you see a larger portrait of what was happening?

Your suggestion -- apparently; it's hard to know what you are really saying here -- that the Capitol Police use lethal force against this crowd is one of the dumbest things you have said here, and that is really saying something. Piling up the dead and injured, made up of the poor fools who were unwittingly euchred into doing this really stupid and un-American thing, would have been the worst sort of outcome for the Capitol Police and the country. Their restraint was purposeful and remarkable. And again, you maybe deliberately -- it's hard to know -- miss the point about what exactly was the "coup" attempt part of this.

I keep telling you the same thing over and over and over counselor. Your the one telling me this was an attempt by a rabid horde of crazy FRC extremists to overturn a lawful election. They were an imminent threat to our nation and the constitution of the USA. The moment these people decided to break down the doors and storm our Capital they became a clear and present danger to our nation, that is interpreting YOUR definition of what these people were trying to accomplish. It should have taken ONE WARNING from the PA system at the Capital declaring the mob a threat to national security and the use of lethal force has been authorized. The mob should then have been ordered to cease and desist and immediately evacuate the grounds of the Capital building. What the unruly mob chose to do then would have been their decision. If you want to get really anal retentive about the threat of " lethal force" by the US Government just take a gander at those signs at the perimeter of Area 51. You think they f***ing don't mean they will shoot your ass if you try and trespass on that facility? You don't think I would have not your ass if you were going to trespass on my guard post at Heavy Drop rigging at Ft Bragg? I understand the high visibility optics of the protesters in front of the US Capital. The dynamics change the minute people decide to break into the building and become a threat to the people that run this country. I don't know what the rules of engagement were for the Capital police on that day. Clearly there should have been a warning given that the use of lethal force had been authorized and a very brief time frame given for the mob to disperse. If they chose to ignore those warnings then so be it.

The FBI Hostage Rescue team was on-site at the Capitol on January 6. The people who entered the Capitol were pretty close to leaving in a bodybag.

Some of their handiwork.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcdfw ... 698/%3famp