January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

[Typical Lax Dad]

The basis for illegitimacy is that Trump lost. No other part of any State's ballots from the 2020 are deemed illegitimate...and you're intentionally lying here, pretending that you don't know that.

Hillary said, "Trump knows he's an illegitimate president...There were many funny things that happened in my election. That will not happen again."

Lets not forget the previous losing side spearheaded contentious investigations about an anomalous election that lasted 3 years. And yielded little of substance.

But NOW things have gone too far. There is a “threat to democracy" and a questioning of elections that Trump, and his side alone, inspired.

[old salt]

Lying ? ....the basis for stop the steal is election fraud in key swing states where the election rules were changed due to the covid emerg -- those are the states to which the Congress members objected.

And now we've arrived, again, at Kismet's question----that you're avoiding:

If the Republicans in those key swing States claim the ballots in those States were illegitimate, explain why the Republican "winners" in those States took their seats, without hesitation?

Which members of Congress objected to certifying the electoral votes from their home state ?

Still avoiding the question.....this time pretending that you don't understand the question. Neat-o.

Questions are hard, I'm not unsympathetic.

Show us where I said the election was "stolen" -- you are demanding that I defend something I did not say.

My objection is to making permanent the last minute temporary covid emergency rules used in 2020.
imho -- they increase the opportunity for fraud, undermine public confidence in the outcome & enable a big lie like stop the steal;

I prefer reverting to the 2018 rules. Were results from 2018 & before illegitimate ?
I do not reply to questions that are not applicable & are a diversion.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Lying ? ....the basis for stop the steal is election fraud in key swing states where the election rules were changed due to the covid emerg -- those are the states to which the Congress members objected.

And now we've arrived, again, at Kismet's question----that you're avoiding:

If the Republicans in those key swing States claim the ballots in those States were illegitimate, explain why the Republican "winners" in those States took their seats, without hesitation?

Which members of Congress objected to certifying the electoral votes from their home state ?

Still avoiding the question.....this time pretending that you don't understand the question. Neat-o.

Questions are hard, I'm not unsympathetic.

Show us where I said the election was "stolen" -- you are demanding that I defend something I did not say.

My objection is to making permanent the last minute temporary covid emergency rules used in 2020.
imho -- they increase the opportunity for fraud, undermine public confidence in the outcome & enable a big lie like stop the steal;

I prefer reverting to the 2018 rules. Were results from 2018 & before illegitimate ?
I do not reply to questions that are not applicable & are a diversion.

[a fan]

The basis for illegitimacy is that Trump lost. No other part of any State's ballots from the 2020 are deemed illegitimate...and you're intentionally lying here, pretending that you don't know that.

Hillary said, "Trump knows he's an illegitimate president...There were many funny things that happened in my election. That will not happen again."

Yes. Recall I just said that I wouldn't care about the election whining as much if the Republicans weren't messing with ACTUAL election procedures throughout the country. Hillary is a civilian with no power. The current Republicans messing with State election procedures is a different kettle of fish.

But as I have said dozens of times now----this is a dangerous, dangerous game we're playing with these petty claims. I agree with you...and have from the get-go, that Hillary should shut up and take her well-earned loss like an adult. Like Al Gore did, to his great credit.

Lets not forget the previous losing side spearheaded contentious investigations about an anomalous election that lasted 3 years. And yielded little of substance.

That's not the same thing, and it wasn't the "other side" who looked into Russian interference.....that was US Intel looking into Russian election games, my man. Big, big difference between Russian actually hacking into voter rolls (and doing nothing, by all accounts), and claiming ONLY the Trump-Biden part of the ballots were fraudulent.

[MDlaxfan76]

Lying ? ....the basis for stop the steal is election fraud in key swing states where the election rules were changed due to the covid emerg -- those are the states to which the Congress members objected.

And now we've arrived, again, at Kismet's question----that you're avoiding:

If the Republicans in those key swing States claim the ballots in those States were illegitimate, explain why the Republican "winners" in those States took their seats, without hesitation?

Which members of Congress objected to certifying the electoral votes from their home state ?

Still avoiding the question.....this time pretending that you don't understand the question. Neat-o.

Questions are hard, I'm not unsympathetic.

Show us where I said the election was "stolen" -- you are demanding that I defend something I did not say.

My objection is to making permanent the last minute temporary covid emergency rules used in 2020.
imho -- they increase the opportunity for fraud, undermined public confidence in the outcome & enabled a big lie like stop the steal;

I prefer reverting to the 2018 rules. Were results from 2018 & before illegitimate ?
I do not reply to questions that are not applicable & a diversion.

But why, if there's no actual basis to not have public confidence other than the LIE from those upset they lost? Remember, it's a LIE. Not fraud.

The issue isn't that there was any fraud, nor any actual "opportunity for fraud" (there isn't, that too is a LIE), the issue was that they made it easier to cast a legitimate, traceable, verifiable vote from legitimate voters...that's the only actual issue.

Everything else is made up by those upset to have lost and that BS, the LIE, is further being used by those whose only interest is power and who think they can't win if all legitimate voters vote. It's a very old story.

And you're indeed also "lying" if you claim that what GOP legislatures are doing is just "reverting to the 2018 rules."...nope, they've making it harder to vote, wherever they can, than in 2018. Pretty sure you know that.

Want to make elections even more secure than what GOP officials said was the most secure US election ever held? Make sure all voting has a paper trail, all voting is traceable. Have large penalties for intentional fraud.

Want to increase "public confidence"?
Also make a law against election fraud claims that are known to be slanderous, known to be untrue.
Punish the liars.

[get it to x]

Lying ? ....the basis for stop the steal is election fraud in key swing states where the election rules were changed due to the covid emerg -- those are the states to which the Congress members objected.

And now we've arrived, again, at Kismet's question----that you're avoiding:

If the Republicans in those key swing States claim the ballots in those States were illegitimate, explain why the Republican "winners" in those States took their seats, without hesitation?

Which members of Congress objected to certifying the electoral votes from their home state ?

Still avoiding the question.....this time pretending that you don't understand the question. Neat-o.

Questions are hard, I'm not unsympathetic.

Show us where I said the election was "stolen" -- you are demanding that I defend something I did not say.

My objection is to making permanent the last minute temporary covid emergency rules used in 2020.
imho -- they increase the opportunity for fraud, undermined public confidence in the outcome & enabled a big lie like stop the steal;

I prefer reverting to the 2018 rules. Were results from 2018 & before illegitimate ?
I do not reply to questions that are not applicable & a diversion.

But why, if there's no actual basis to not have public confidence other than the LIE from those upset they lost? Remember, it's a LIE. Not fraud.

The issue isn't that there was any fraud, nor any actual "opportunity for fraud" (there isn't, that too is a LIE), the issue was that they made it easier to cast a legitimate, traceable, verifiable vote from legitimate voters...that's the only actual issue.

Everything else is made up by those upset to have lost and that BS, the LIE, is further being used by those whose only interest is power and who think they can't win if all legitimate voters vote. It's a very old story.

And you're indeed also "lying" if you claim that what GOP legislatures are doing is just "reverting to the 2018 rules."...nope, they've making it harder to vote, wherever they can, than in 2018. Pretty sure you know that.

Want to make elections even more secure than what GOP officials said was the most secure US election ever held? Make sure all voting has a paper trail, all voting is traceable. Have large penalties for intentional fraud.

Want to increase "public confidence"?
Also make a law against election fraud claims that are known to be slanderous, known to be untrue.
Punish the liars.

Most of the new voter laws deal with identification. They may be a roll back some of 2020's situational rules, again unauthorized by the Constitution. However, Georgia will have ballot drop boxes again. Now, if you're going to throw out minorities not being able to get an I.D., well that's just plain insulting to them. Stop being so paternal with everyone else's children.

As to your last point, having the government jail a citizen for speech doesn't exactly instill "public confidence". Maybe you meant "instill fear of my own government".

[ggait]

I prefer reverting to the 2018 rules. Were results from 2018 & before illegitimate ?

110% bull shirt.

The GOP has been falsely whining about election integrity for decades. Trump merely turned that up to 11. Per GOP election lawyer Ben Ginsberg:

Nearly every Election Day since 1984 I’ve worked with Republican poll watchers, observers and lawyers to record and litigate any fraud or election irregularities discovered. The truth is that over all those years Republicans found only isolated incidents of fraud. Proof of systematic fraud has become the Loch Ness Monster of the Republican Party. People have spent a lot of time looking for it, but it doesn’t exist.

The GOP has for years used the myth of widespread fraud to justify voter suppression measures. Which is why they were under a federal court order from 1982 thru 2018:

After more than three decades, Republicans are free of a federal court consent decree that sharply limited the Republican National Committee's ability to challenge voters' qualifications and target the kind of fraud President Donald Trump has alleged affected the 2016 presidential race. Newark-based U.S. District Court Judge John Michael Vazquez ruled in an order released Tuesday that the longstanding decree ended Dec. 1 and will not be extended.

The decree, which dated to 1982, arose from a Democratic National Committee lawsuit charging the RNC with seeking to discourage African-Americans from voting through targeted mailings warning about penalties for violating election laws and by posting armed, off-duty law enforcement officers at the polls in minority neighborhoods.

Salty's canard is that everything was fine until Covid hit in 2020. Boy was he not paying attention in U.S. history class -- he missed the last 150 years!!

[MDlaxfan76]

Lying ? ....the basis for stop the steal is election fraud in key swing states where the election rules were changed due to the covid emerg -- those are the states to which the Congress members objected.

And now we've arrived, again, at Kismet's question----that you're avoiding:

If the Republicans in those key swing States claim the ballots in those States were illegitimate, explain why the Republican "winners" in those States took their seats, without hesitation?

Which members of Congress objected to certifying the electoral votes from their home state ?

Still avoiding the question.....this time pretending that you don't understand the question. Neat-o.

Questions are hard, I'm not unsympathetic.

Show us where I said the election was "stolen" -- you are demanding that I defend something I did not say.

My objection is to making permanent the last minute temporary covid emergency rules used in 2020.
imho -- they increase the opportunity for fraud, undermined public confidence in the outcome & enabled a big lie like stop the steal;

I prefer reverting to the 2018 rules. Were results from 2018 & before illegitimate ?
I do not reply to questions that are not applicable & a diversion.

But why, if there's no actual basis to not have public confidence other than the LIE from those upset they lost? Remember, it's a LIE. Not fraud.

The issue isn't that there was any fraud, nor any actual "opportunity for fraud" (there isn't, that too is a LIE), the issue was that they made it easier to cast a legitimate, traceable, verifiable vote from legitimate voters...that's the only actual issue.

Everything else is made up by those upset to have lost and that BS, the LIE, is further being used by those whose only interest is power and who think they can't win if all legitimate voters vote. It's a very old story.

And you're indeed also "lying" if you claim that what GOP legislatures are doing is just "reverting to the 2018 rules."...nope, they've making it harder to vote, wherever they can, than in 2018. Pretty sure you know that.

Want to make elections even more secure than what GOP officials said was the most secure US election ever held? Make sure all voting has a paper trail, all voting is traceable. Have large penalties for intentional fraud.

Want to increase "public confidence"?
Also make a law against election fraud claims that are known to be slanderous, known to be untrue.
Punish the liars.

Most of the new voter laws deal with identification. They may be a roll back some of 2020's situational rules, again unauthorized by the Constitution. However, Georgia will have ballot drop boxes again. Now, if you're going to throw out minorities not being able to get an I.D., well that's just plain insulting to them. Stop being so paternal with everyone else's children.

As to your last point, having the government jail a citizen for speech doesn't exactly instill "public confidence". Maybe you meant "instill fear of my own government".

No, you seem to have ignored the actual content of the law changes that are disturbing. They include closing or moving polling places, including where public transportation doesn't reach, reducing polling places in areas with high density of voters considered likely to vote for the other party, limiting the number of voting machines and designating them by party affiliation even if there are many times more registered voters from the opponent's party...and giving the legislatures the right to simply overrule the actual vote count, sending an unelected slate of electors in their stead.

And reducing days of voting, hours of voting, and/or drop boxes, mail-in, etc...very little actually has to do with verifying identity...again, there's been extremely low identity fraud and there are strong procedures in place (and should be) for picking out actual fraudulent attempts.

There are also various onerous, unnecessary hurdles for proving identity...again, there's extremely low identity fraud with mail-in voting.

But some states (GOP led) don't want any mail-in voting...https://www.kshb.com/news/election-2020 ... estrictive

No, I'm not asking for limiting free, honest speech, as protected under the First Amendment...but fraudulent speech, slanderous speech, provably so, should be illegal. Of course, if you think lying is cool, I get it...par for the course.

[MDlaxfan76]

I prefer reverting to the 2018 rules. Were results from 2018 & before illegitimate ?

110% bull shirt.

The GOP has been falsely whining about election integrity for decades. Trump merely turned that up to 11. Per GOP election lawyer Ben Ginsberg:

Nearly every Election Day since 1984 I’ve worked with Republican poll watchers, observers and lawyers to record and litigate any fraud or election irregularities discovered. The truth is that over all those years Republicans found only isolated incidents of fraud. Proof of systematic fraud has become the Loch Ness Monster of the Republican Party. People have spent a lot of time looking for it, but it doesn’t exist.

The GOP has for years used the myth of widespread fraud to justify voter suppression measures. Which is why they were under a federal court order from 1982 thru 2018:

After more than three decades, Republicans are free of a federal court consent decree that sharply limited the Republican National Committee's ability to challenge voters' qualifications and target the kind of fraud President Donald Trump has alleged affected the 2016 presidential race. Newark-based U.S. District Court Judge John Michael Vazquez ruled in an order released Tuesday that the longstanding decree ended Dec. 1 and will not be extended.

The decree, which dated to 1982, arose from a Democratic National Committee lawsuit charging the RNC with seeking to discourage African-Americans from voting through targeted mailings warning about penalties for violating election laws and by posting armed, off-duty law enforcement officers at the polls in minority neighborhoods.

Salty's canard is that everything was fine until Covid hit in 2020. Boy was he not paying attention in U.S. history class -- he missed the last 150 years!!

You're giving him too much benefit of the doubt.
I think Salty's well aware of the 150 years...Jim Crow, the whole enchilada of voter suppression.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/282896/

While income and education levels were not recorded in the survey, race and age were major factors influencing who made it to the polls on Election Day and what kind of barriers they faced. Black and Hispanic citizens, for whom the poverty rate is close to three times that of whites, were three times as likely as whites to not have the requisite I.D. and to have difficulty finding the correct polling place. They were more than three times as likely as whites to not receive a requested absentee ballots, and roughly twice as likely to be out of town on Election Day or to have to wait in long lines. They were also substantially more likely than whites to report transportation problems and bad time and location as reasons for not getting to the polls, while white voters were the most likely to cite disapproval of candidate choices. Taken together, the surveys suggest that white citizens who abstain from voting do so primarily by choice, while the majority of minority non-voters face problems along the way.

[NattyBohChamps04]

Clown was calling pre-2018 elections into question. It's definitely not a new thing, even though RR and others are harping on the "COVID rules".

October 2016: US election 2016: Trump says election 'rigged at polling places'

[old salt]

I prefer reverting to the 2018 rules. Were results from 2018 & before illegitimate ?

110% bull shirt.

The GOP has been falsely whining about election integrity for decades. Trump merely turned that up to 11. Per GOP election lawyer Ben Ginsberg:

Nearly every Election Day since 1984 I’ve worked with Republican poll watchers, observers and lawyers to record and litigate any fraud or election irregularities discovered. The truth is that over all those years Republicans found only isolated incidents of fraud. Proof of systematic fraud has become the Loch Ness Monster of the Republican Party. People have spent a lot of time looking for it, but it doesn’t exist.

The GOP has for years used the myth of widespread fraud to justify voter suppression measures. Which is why they were under a federal court order from 1982 thru 2018:

After more than three decades, Republicans are free of a federal court consent decree that sharply limited the Republican National Committee's ability to challenge voters' qualifications and target the kind of fraud President Donald Trump has alleged affected the 2016 presidential race. Newark-based U.S. District Court Judge John Michael Vazquez ruled in an order released Tuesday that the longstanding decree ended Dec. 1 and will not be extended.

The decree, which dated to 1982, arose from a Democratic National Committee lawsuit charging the RNC with seeking to discourage African-Americans from voting through targeted mailings warning about penalties for violating election laws and by posting armed, off-duty law enforcement officers at the polls in minority neighborhoods.

Salty's canard is that everything was fine until Covid hit in 2020. Boy was he not paying attention in U.S. history class -- he missed the last 150 years!!

You're giving him too much benefit of the doubt.
I think Salty's well aware of the 150 years...Jim Crow, the whole enchilada of voter suppression.

Doing the math : 2018 - 150 = 1868 was our last legit election. Okie Dokie. We're a horrible country.
What good was all that REAL ID torture ? Just to pick up our packages at the UPS/FEDEX/Amazon storefronts ?
Never let a good crisis go unexploited.

[Typical Lax Dad]

[Typical Lax Dad]

[Typical Lax Dad]

[Typical Lax Dad]

Minority voters disproportionately lack ID. Nationally, up to 25% of African-American citizens of voting age lack government-issued photo ID, compared to only 8% of whites.6
States exclude forms of ID in a discriminatory manner. Texas allows concealed weapons permits for voting, but does not accept student ID cards. Until its voter ID law was struck down, North Carolina prohibited public assistance IDs and state employee ID cards, which are disproportionately held by Black voters. And until recently, Wisconsin permitted active duty military ID cards, but prohibited Veterans Affairs ID cards for voting.
Voter ID laws are enforced in a discriminatory manner. A Caltech/MIT study found that minority voters are more frequently questioned about ID than are white voters.7

[a fan]

Doing the math : 2018 - 150 = 1868 was our last legit election. Okie Dokie. We're a horrible country.
What good was all that REAL ID torture ? Just to pick up our packages at the UPS/FEDEX/Amazon storefronts ?
Never let a good crisis go unexploited.

Aaaaand you're back to telling me why we should vote in person-only, ID in hand.

You just can't avoid it. All roads lead to it....it's so fun to watch your complaints lead you to the same exact conclusion, every time.

Because if you can pick up a FedEx package at their storefront, as you're mocking here? SURELY you can get off your lazy Republican duffs and show up at a Voting Booth, right?

Yet you CHOOSE not to make in person only voting a law.

It's like listening to a teenager whine to dad about not having money...and the Dad simply says "get a job, problem solved".

Then the teenager REFUSES to get a job...and keeps whining about not having money.

The solution to your fake complaint is right there for ya, OS. You don't want to solve the problem.

It's right up there with immigration reform. Vote for Trump again, and THIS time he'll fix immigration, right?

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/10/politics ... index.html

[Typical Lax Dad]

Doing the math : 2018 - 150 = 1868 was our last legit election. Okie Dokie. We're a horrible country.
What good was all that REAL ID torture ? Just to pick up our packages at the UPS/FEDEX/Amazon storefronts ?
Never let a good crisis go unexploited.

Aaaaand you're back to telling me why we should vote in person-only, ID in hand.

You just can't avoid it. All roads lead to it....it's so fun to watch your complaints lead you to the same exact conclusion, every time.

Because if you can pick up a FedEx package at their storefront, as you're mocking here? SURELY you can get off your lazy Republican duffs and show up at a Voting Booth, right?

Yet you CHOOSE not to make in person only voting a law.

It's like listening to a teenager whine to dad about not having money...and the Dad simply says "get a job, problem solved".

Then the teenager REFUSES to get a job...and keeps whining about not having money.

The solution to your fake complaint is right there for ya, OS. You don't want to solve the problem.

It's right up there with immigration reform. Vote for Trump again, and THIS time he'll fix immigration, right?

He wants his country back.

[Brooklyn]

Doing the math : 2018 - 150 = 1868 was our last legit election. Okie Dokie. We're a horrible country.
What good was all that REAL ID torture ? Just to pick up our packages at the UPS/FEDEX/Amazon storefronts ?
Never let a good crisis go unexploited.

Aaaaand you're back to telling me why we should vote in person-only, ID in hand.

Right wingers make me laugh when they demand that people produce ID when voting but not when buying a gun or some other weapon.