THE 2019 Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

[Wheels]

Pretty measured take. I think with this freshman class, they did try to recruit size, speed, and athleticism. I disagree about next year's class though, there are several kids who project out as either possible two-way middies who can impact both sides of the field and transition, or just big/athletic: Ruddy, Rodgers, Chambers, Witman, Handsor, Finley-Ponds, Glassmeyer. Jake Fox's brother, Hayden, is a giant. Maybe they were too late recruiting that type of kid in lieu of smallish munchkins with stick skills and high IQ. I think it would be a huge mistake to just stop recruiting those kinds of players entirely, but a better balance can probably be struck.

Worth noting that this freshman class was supposed to have Griffin Westlin and Sean Kuttin—both switched to Notre Dame and Yale, respectively. Neither are particularly big but it's clear they aren't working with the full arsenal they thought they'd have two years ago.

So I'll clarify a bit on this. Petro's recruiting classes look like Ivy League recruiting classes to me, with the exception of Yale, who recruits like Maryland, Notre Dame, and Ohio State. If I was a Hopkins fan, I'd like to see less prep school and MIAA kids. Yeah, you still grab a couple of elite ones each year from those kinds of schools, but mix in more publics and WMAC-types (you all have a goalie from Gonzaga coming in soon...and I know Connor Reed never met the Rabil expectations). Mix in some more kids from the growing markets out west. If Yale can do it with their admission standards, so can Hopkins. I'd want to see Petro get out of his comfort zone, geographically speaking. Your next coach, Nads at Towson, is going to be a monster, and, as a Terps' fan, I don't look forward to seeing him return to Homewood.

Benson as an OC is in a tough spot. He knows his motion-heavy offense doesn't work so well without at least one guy who force slides. It happened to Penn State last year when Ament hurt his foot. With the shot clock, it's made things way more challenging for such a motion-heavy offense.

[51percentcorn]

Not even Steele Stanwick could have made a difference in the first two games and Shack was never considered an elite dodger. What Shack had was an extremely high lacrosse IQ - an incredible level of unselfishness - and typically more tools to work with than the current Jays squad - e.g. got to play 3 years with Tinney, 2 with Ryan Brown, Fraser's cannon for 4 years etc.

I don't get the comment about changes in recruiting rules unless you are saying Hopkins dependency on early recruiting before the change in the rules hurt. They had a Top 10 recruit - and a successful freshmen year until he got hurt - leave and 2 Top 10/20 recruits choose to decommit and go elsewhere. I haven't seen Yale really play so I don't know anything about Kuttin but Westlin looks like he can play. He was on the field alot in the 4th quarter of the ND/MD game. And I don't believe Petro had a specific goal however many years ago to get smaller. I might bet he tried HARD to recruit guys like Fairman, Brad Smith, etc. It still seems this notion pervades that Petro gets to sift through whatever recruits he wants and he's not interested in these stars for other teams. Most of them simply didn't want to come to Hopkins.

It's also amusing to me that if you were to line up the 4 best offensive players in lacrosse - Spencer, Sowers, Teat and maybe Kraus? 3 of the 4 probably can't get to 6 ft with their helmet on and don't break a buck80 soaking wet. 3 of Duke's stars - Robertson, Manown and Montgomery are under 5'11". The issue is that all the aforementioned are playing their natural position and those teams likely don't have 3 to 4 converted attackmen - who also happen to be small - playing on the first and second mid-fields.

Petro has a real middie on his team - it's Zinn. Yes that was a horrible panic attack the kid had to drop a simple pass and then let the Syracuse longpole steal his lunch money for an easy goal. But pretty much sticking him in the doghouse was not the way to go - not for this year or the next.

No one had Rabil expectations for Connor Reed. I think most thought that after 35 tallies last year and Epstein coming in - Hopkins had two very capable - if not elite - dodgers and it was going to help the offense. That has not materialized - thorugh no fault of Epstein who continually hits kids for step downs that can't hit or even manage to take.

[HopFan16]

Pretty measured take. I think with this freshman class, they did try to recruit size, speed, and athleticism. I disagree about next year's class though, there are several kids who project out as either possible two-way middies who can impact both sides of the field and transition, or just big/athletic: Ruddy, Rodgers, Chambers, Witman, Handsor, Finley-Ponds, Glassmeyer. Jake Fox's brother, Hayden, is a giant. Maybe they were too late recruiting that type of kid in lieu of smallish munchkins with stick skills and high IQ. I think it would be a huge mistake to just stop recruiting those kinds of players entirely, but a better balance can probably be struck.

Worth noting that this freshman class was supposed to have Griffin Westlin and Sean Kuttin—both switched to Notre Dame and Yale, respectively. Neither are particularly big but it's clear they aren't working with the full arsenal they thought they'd have two years ago.

So I'll clarify a bit on this. Petro's recruiting classes look like Ivy League recruiting classes to me, with the exception of Yale, who recruits like Maryland, Notre Dame, and Ohio State. If I was a Hopkins fan, I'd like to see less prep school and MIAA kids. Yeah, you still grab a couple of elite ones each year from those kinds of schools, but mix in more publics and WMAC-types (you all have a goalie from Gonzaga coming in soon...and I know Connor Reed never met the Rabil expectations). Mix in some more kids from the growing markets out west. If Yale can do it with their admission standards, so can Hopkins. I'd want to see Petro get out of his comfort zone, geographically speaking. Your next coach, Nads at Towson, is going to be a monster, and, as a Terps' fan, I don't look forward to seeing him return to Homewood.

Benson as an OC is in a tough spot. He knows his motion-heavy offense doesn't work so well without at least one guy who force slides. It happened to Penn State last year when Ament hurt his foot. With the shot clock, it's made things way more challenging for such a motion-heavy offense.

For what it's worth, the goalie from Gonzaga can really play.

The next two classes are geographically diverse. 2019 has three kids from Culver (Indiana), two from Colorado, one from California. 2020 has two from Florida, one from Utah, one from California, one from Georgia, two from Canada. Brendan Grimes, the consensus #2 recruit in the country in that class, is one of only two kids from Maryland (the other being his BL teammate, Ryan Evans). Compare that to classes of a few years ago when it was 90% Maryland and New York with maybe a random Massachussetts/NJ/PA/VA or two thrown in. There's an obvious effort to start going after kids from other areas. Again, maybe they should have done more of that 5 years ago, but it's happening now.

I too don't recall those expectations for Reed...the expectations were higher for Greeley, who unfortunately never met them, though injuries played a big part in that.

[jhu06]

All the future stuff is meaningless to me. We did not come in counting on evan zinn, we came in expecting big things from cole williams, connor, forry, the 6v6 defense and 6v6 offense and haven't gotten it. Marr and Concannon disappear and kuhn gets beaten more than he should. 2 games this week that should get us back over 500 are a good place to start.

[51percentcorn]

The goalie from Gonzaga - unfortunately - is another Smurf

Put either one of these games in the basket at your peril - especially Saturday - I believe the Hens had a lead late in the third or early in the 4th last year

Would have expected a little more class from one of the true legends of the game (@caseypowell22) than
"Cardinals, Bluejays, Geese, Ducks
Everyone knows Hopkins Sucks"

Frankly sounds like a 10 year old - what's next
"I'm rubber you're glue........"

[OCanada]

06. Ifvyoubczme in counting on the 6x6 offense and players like Forry and a other concerted middies I would ask why?

More pretty much knew that we needed a couple of middies to stand up and they haven’t. Not saying they aren’t playing hard they just are t getting it done. The 6x6 defense I counted on and they haven’t looked good.

GK was an open question as was FOGO. I thought this was maybe a top 10 ten team if all those things worked out. They haven’t. I haven’t seen such a weak midfield for us as we are showing now

[Wheels]

Pretty measured take. I think with this freshman class, they did try to recruit size, speed, and athleticism. I disagree about next year's class though, there are several kids who project out as either possible two-way middies who can impact both sides of the field and transition, or just big/athletic: Ruddy, Rodgers, Chambers, Witman, Handsor, Finley-Ponds, Glassmeyer. Jake Fox's brother, Hayden, is a giant. Maybe they were too late recruiting that type of kid in lieu of smallish munchkins with stick skills and high IQ. I think it would be a huge mistake to just stop recruiting those kinds of players entirely, but a better balance can probably be struck.

Worth noting that this freshman class was supposed to have Griffin Westlin and Sean Kuttin—both switched to Notre Dame and Yale, respectively. Neither are particularly big but it's clear they aren't working with the full arsenal they thought they'd have two years ago.

So I'll clarify a bit on this. Petro's recruiting classes look like Ivy League recruiting classes to me, with the exception of Yale, who recruits like Maryland, Notre Dame, and Ohio State. If I was a Hopkins fan, I'd like to see less prep school and MIAA kids. Yeah, you still grab a couple of elite ones each year from those kinds of schools, but mix in more publics and WMAC-types (you all have a goalie from Gonzaga coming in soon...and I know Connor Reed never met the Rabil expectations). Mix in some more kids from the growing markets out west. If Yale can do it with their admission standards, so can Hopkins. I'd want to see Petro get out of his comfort zone, geographically speaking. Your next coach, Nads at Towson, is going to be a monster, and, as a Terps' fan, I don't look forward to seeing him return to Homewood.

Benson as an OC is in a tough spot. He knows his motion-heavy offense doesn't work so well without at least one guy who force slides. It happened to Penn State last year when Ament hurt his foot. With the shot clock, it's made things way more challenging for such a motion-heavy offense.

For what it's worth, the goalie from Gonzaga can really play.

The next two classes are geographically diverse. 2019 has three kids from Culver (Indiana), two from Colorado, one from California. 2020 has two from Florida, one from Utah, one from California, one from Georgia, two from Canada. Brendan Grimes, the consensus #2 recruit in the country in that class, is one of only two kids from Maryland (the other being his BL teammate, Ryan Evans). Compare that to classes of a few years ago when it was 90% Maryland and New York with maybe a random Massachussetts/NJ/PA/VA or two thrown in. There's an obvious effort to start going after kids from other areas. Again, maybe they should have done more of that 5 years ago, but it's happening now.

I too don't recall those expectations for Reed...the expectations were higher for Greeley, who unfortunately never met them, though injuries played a big part in that.

That's good to see, then. I don't mean to bag on the MIAA (or the Inter-Ac, which is similar to the MIAA), but it's really something I've noticed over the past couple of years. 6 or 7 years ago, a lot of Terp fans were upset that so few BL, Loyola, Gilman, Calvert Hall (aka, UNC North) kids would come to College Park. You don't hear that now. Of course, it helps that Tillman finally won one, but it also seems like Terp fans understand his recruiting philosophy now. He will, of course, grab MIAA kids if they fit his philosophy, but it is noticeable that he's built this Final 4 machine with so few kids from arguably the best high lacrosse conference in the country.

I am interested in getting the boards' thoughts on a conversation that many Maryland fans on a different site had over Petro's future at Hopkins. There's some broad agreement that had he not gotten to the quarterfinals last season that he wouldn't have been back this year. Again, that's a total outside the Hopkins bubble take on the program. If the wheels fall off this year...like a 1-4, miss the B1G tournament kind of season, do you all think he's back next season? Of course, that's worst case scenario. Just curious as to what you all think. I could see the Hopkins administration making the move to get Nads, but, again, I'm a total outsider to the JHU culture.

[HopFan16]

I am interested in getting the boards' thoughts on a conversation that many Maryland fans on a different site had over Petro's future at Hopkins. There's some broad agreement that had he not gotten to the quarterfinals last season that he wouldn't have been back this year. Again, that's a total outside the Hopkins bubble take on the program. If the wheels fall off this year...like a 1-4, miss the B1G tournament kind of season, do you all think he's back next season? Of course, that's worst case scenario. Just curious as to what you all think. I could see the Hopkins administration making the move to get Nads, but, again, I'm a total outsider to the JHU culture.

I don't know any more than you do but he wasn't going anywhere had we lost to Georgetown in the 1st round. He'd still have been back. I believe his contract expires after next season so, if this year goes the way it's currently going and 2020 isn't better, then maybe there are conversations. He has built up a lot of goodwill and rightfully so. I don't think they'd ever push him out unless things got really bad. Some would argue that they already are. But we're less than a year removed from a Big Ten championship, which may have earned some more leeway. The team has won 50% of the conference titles, despite the lack of success in the NCAA tournament...a miracle 2015 run notwithstanding.

That's just my feeling. He's far more likely to go on his own terms. He seems like a pretty self-aware guy and would know if it was time for him to move on. (Cue certain posters disagreeing with that.) But I do tend to think we're closer to the end of his tenure than the beginning, barring something very unexpected happening (like final fours and/or championships) this season or next. Nadelen was pretty adamant about staying at Towson when his name came up during the Michigan search but Hopkins is obviously a different animal. I'd say the chances of him ever coaching at Hopkins are 50-50—he's only 39, so still young in coach years. If Petro were to leave he'd obviously be the first name that comes up. I'm assuming they'd want to keep it in the Hopkins family, which is respectable but if it were up to me I'd just go get the best guy available. Of course it's possible that that person is Nads anyway. Marr, Conry, Raymond, Voelker, Holman's names would probably get tossed out there too. Given all that drama at Albany recently, and after Kyle graduates this year, perhaps Scott Marr would be more inclined to return to his alma mater.

Anyway, as one of our resident cautious optimists—all that is a long way off. This season is still going, and it's far from over. The turnaround starts tomorrow night against the Mount. They've got a kid named Jack Mangan who is pretty incredible—19 GBs, 14 CTs, to go along with 9 pts. They've won three in a row including the win on the road at Richmond. They are a much better team than when the Jays last played them in 2014. Delaware is very solid too with a brick wall for a goalie/defense but not even going to start thinking about them until Wednesday morning.

[wgdsr]

duke also, who has had a pretty good 10-13 years, has relied very little on maryland/miaa recruits.

there are no doubt excellent miaa players, on down the list to very good and good --- right now spencer, conrad, wisnauskas, costabile, curry, there are others, for sure. but in an 11 team league and talent that can be drawn from about anywhere nowadays, even if it's not as concentrated, most rosters really shouldn't have a huge geographic bias. especially the ones that are down south.

about every champion for quite some time back i'd describe as athletic. find them wherever you can.

[51percentcorn]

Since 2013
Hopkins has actually had very few MIAA players that had major roles on the team
Their names:
Wells Stanwick
Ryan Brown
Phil Castronova
Shack Stanwick
Brinton Valis
Tal Bruno
Cole WIlliams

Let's see - 3 of those names are 7,8,9 Top 10 All time in points for Johns Hopkins
Valis did not live up to the hype - was a very good role player his senior year
Bruno and Castro were not Benson E. but OK SSDMs
Williams had 35 goals last year

Please sir may I have some more?

[Homer]

I am interested in getting the boards' thoughts on a conversation that many Maryland fans on a different site had over Petro's future at Hopkins. There's some broad agreement that had he not gotten to the quarterfinals last season that he wouldn't have been back this year. Again, that's a total outside the Hopkins bubble take on the program. If the wheels fall off this year...like a 1-4, miss the B1G tournament kind of season, do you all think he's back next season? Of course, that's worst case scenario. Just curious as to what you all think. I could see the Hopkins administration making the move to get Nads, but, again, I'm a total outsider to the JHU culture.

I don't know any more than you do but he wasn't going anywhere had we lost to Georgetown in the 1st round. He'd still have been back. I believe his contract expires after next season so, if this year goes the way it's currently going and 2020 isn't better, then maybe there are conversations. He has built up a lot of goodwill and rightfully so. I don't think they'd ever push him out unless things got really bad. Some would argue that they already are. But we're less than a year removed from a Big Ten championship, which may have earned some more leeway. The team has won 50% of the conference titles, despite the lack of success in the NCAA tournament...a miracle 2015 run notwithstanding.

That's just my feeling. He's far more likely to go on his own terms.

I also have zero insider insight, but I'd tend to agree that unless things go south this year in a really drastic way, going into 2020 on the hot seat is more likely than the administration making a move at the end of the season. Don't necessarily share 16's view that Petro's invulnerable though. Nor would it necessarily be publicly obvious in the event of a departure whose terms it was on.

I don't doubt there are some folks with pull who'd rather kick the tires on Nadelen at this point. No idea whether Nadelen's interested, or at what price.

Wheels, I'd be curious to read that conversation if it isn't on a private board, do you mind sharing a link?

What's happened to your midfield is a function of recruiting, and two things look clear to me. One, the rule changes around recruiting have really hurt JHU. Two, Petro's recruiting philosophy needs updating. Teams like Maryland, Notre Dame, and Ohio St started recruiting size and athleticism over stick skills. When you look at the rosters of those teams, not only does the size of their players stand out but also the bios of their players. Check out the other sports that so many players on those rosters played. You'll see few soccer player and dozens of football and hockey players. Coaches in those programs have figured out that they can develop players' stick skills once they get on campus. Looking at your incoming recruits for the next two years doesn't lead me to believe that Petro has adapted to realities of the game at this point in time.

Looking at the on-field product I get what you're saying. That said, if you look at our guys' bios it's about the same -- mostly football and hockey backgrounds for a second sport. Coulter, who for whatever reason has never played in 3.5 years, we literally pulled from a D1 hockey roster. I know Foley played soccer but I'm not aware of many others. If you're talking about guys like Sam Hubbard where they're potential two-sport recruits, then sure, it seems like it's been a while since Hopkins has been in play for that type of kid. But I'm not convinced there's been a conscious philosophy of going after smaller finesse players -- or to the extent there has, it's compensating for the previous cycle when we went completely the other direction. Like others have said, after 2013 the standard line was Hopkins was all big dudes who couldn't shoot or pass.

I suspect a big part of this is ER -- you commit to kids at 14, you're going to have a lot more surprises in terms of who gets taller/thicker and who doesn't. Then there's Petro's temperament not really being suited to the philosophy of putting your best athletes out there and letting them learn on the job; the pool of players available to see the field is going to be further restricted to the ones he trusts not to do stupid stuff. This has its pluses and minuses as an approach.

[Homer]

Since 2013
Hopkins has actually had very few MIAA players that had major roles on the team
Their names:
Wells Stanwick
Ryan Brown
Phil Castronova
Shack Stanwick
Brinton Valis
Tal Bruno
Cole WIlliams

Let's see - 3 of those names are 7,8,9 Top 10 All time in points for Johns Hopkins
Valis did not live up to the hype - was a very good role player his senior year
Bruno and Castro were not Benson E. but OK SSDMs
Williams had 35 goals last year

Please sir may I have some more?

And Hunter Moreland. I agree, the "hit" rate for MIAA players for Hopkins the past few recruiting classes has been pretty good overall.

[Wheels]

I am interested in getting the boards' thoughts on a conversation that many Maryland fans on a different site had over Petro's future at Hopkins. There's some broad agreement that had he not gotten to the quarterfinals last season that he wouldn't have been back this year. Again, that's a total outside the Hopkins bubble take on the program. If the wheels fall off this year...like a 1-4, miss the B1G tournament kind of season, do you all think he's back next season? Of course, that's worst case scenario. Just curious as to what you all think. I could see the Hopkins administration making the move to get Nads, but, again, I'm a total outsider to the JHU culture.

I don't know any more than you do but he wasn't going anywhere had we lost to Georgetown in the 1st round. He'd still have been back. I believe his contract expires after next season so, if this year goes the way it's currently going and 2020 isn't better, then maybe there are conversations. He has built up a lot of goodwill and rightfully so. I don't think they'd ever push him out unless things got really bad. Some would argue that they already are. But we're less than a year removed from a Big Ten championship, which may have earned some more leeway. The team has won 50% of the conference titles, despite the lack of success in the NCAA tournament...a miracle 2015 run notwithstanding.

That's just my feeling. He's far more likely to go on his own terms.

I also have zero insider insight, but I'd tend to agree that unless things go south this year in a really drastic way, going into 2020 on the hot seat is more likely than the administration making a move at the end of the season. Don't necessarily share 16's view that Petro's invulnerable though. Nor would it necessarily be publicly obvious in the event of a departure whose terms it was on.

I don't doubt there are some folks with pull who'd rather kick the tires on Nadelen at this point. No idea whether Nadelen's interested, or at what price.

Wheels, I'd be curious to read that conversation if it isn't on a private board, do you mind sharing a link?

What's happened to your midfield is a function of recruiting, and two things look clear to me. One, the rule changes around recruiting have really hurt JHU. Two, Petro's recruiting philosophy needs updating. Teams like Maryland, Notre Dame, and Ohio St started recruiting size and athleticism over stick skills. When you look at the rosters of those teams, not only does the size of their players stand out but also the bios of their players. Check out the other sports that so many players on those rosters played. You'll see few soccer player and dozens of football and hockey players. Coaches in those programs have figured out that they can develop players' stick skills once they get on campus. Looking at your incoming recruits for the next two years doesn't lead me to believe that Petro has adapted to realities of the game at this point in time.

Looking at the on-field product I get what you're saying. That said, if you look at our guys' bios it's about the same -- mostly football and hockey backgrounds for a second sport. Coulter, who for whatever reason has never played in 3.5 years, we literally pulled from a D1 hockey roster. I know Foley played soccer but I'm not aware of many others. If you're talking about guys like Sam Hubbard where they're potential two-sport recruits, then sure, it seems like it's been a while since Hopkins has been in play for that type of kid. But I'm not convinced there's been a conscious philosophy of going after smaller finesse players -- or to the extent there has, it's compensating for the previous cycle when we went completely the other direction. Like others have said, after 2013 the standard line was Hopkins was all big dudes who couldn't shoot or pass.

I suspect a big part of this is ER -- you commit to kids at 14, you're going to have a lot more surprises in terms of who gets taller/thicker and who doesn't. Then there's Petro's temperament not really being suited to the philosophy of putting your best athletes out there and letting them learn on the job; the pool of players available to see the field is going to be further restricted to the ones he trusts not to do stupid stuff. This has its pluses and minuses as an approach.

The conversations happened behind the paywall of a Maryland sports site. It's a bit of an ongoing conversation that some of us on a lacrosse thread have been having for a couple of years now. After Hopkins made a couple of first-round NCAA exits, it became a topic of conversation. Petro doesn't have the best sideline demeanor and is known to be pretty hard on players during practice (something I've heard this from former JHU players, too); so it looks on the outside like Hopkins has an easy escape hatch with Petro. When you're winning, that stuff doesn't matter (see Tierney, Bill). When you're not, well, it does. With Nads up the road in Towson, you wonder how long of a leash Petro has. But, again, I've only been a visitor to Hopkins, and I don't know the disposition of the administration and alumni base toward him. I can only tell you how the Maryland fan base is disposed him!

In terms of roster construction and recruiting, what really stands out is the lack of player development in the midfield. On paper, Hopkins has recruited well all over the field, so it is head scratching that several classes of midfield haven't developed into impact players.

I have no problems with running traditional attackmen in the midfield, and that looks like what you all are doing with Baskin and Forry Smith. With the motion-heavy offense you all run, get the best sticks and smartest players on the field no matter what they played last year, right?

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

The goalie from Gonzaga - unfortunately - is another Smurf

Put either one of these games in the basket at your peril - especially Saturday - I believe the Hens had a lead late in the third or early in the 4th last year

Would have expected a little more class from one of the true legends of the game (@caseypowell22) than
"Cardinals, Bluejays, Geese, Ducks
Everyone knows Hopkins Sucks"

Frankly sounds like a 10 year old - what's next
"I'm rubber you're glue........"

The one I heard years ago at the hurling oranges game was:

Can’t spell SUCKS without SU.

[johnnyonthegunpowder]

The comment on Hop having too many MIAAers is off base. Frankly, they could and should have more. Now, obviously it doesn't all pan out. We've had western talent that has thrived, usaully Canadian west, and American western talent that has been profoundly overhyped simply because they were good in their league out west and, also, because they were not from a hot bed. Pretty ridiculous reasoning, but yes. Then they come to Hop and never catch up, but the hype keeps em on the field. This is an old conversation though, kids from everywhere are good, but silly to think a roster needs to be geographically diverse; it just needs the right talent. However, I imagine coaches feel the need to recruit diversely in order to give the signal that they did their homework. These coaches don't make enough money to warrant the criticism they get on these boards, imo.

What's interesting is seeing Cuse get more prep school guys from Maryland. Curry (what a talent!) is obviously legacy, but they've got Basil Aburn, and Lipka (who is stellar), and a keeper from Olney. All prep school folks. They had Wisnauskas as well, but he transferred and puts up monster numbers for some other team, and there was another BL attackman up there a couple years ago. It's an interesting development in watching Cuse come back to MD for recruits; that wasn't happening a few years ago, but it's back on now.

[jhu06]

I'm not an insider but I would think at Homewood Petro's future would not be up for discussion until the season is done. This isn't a 30 year old program playing Bellarmine and Utah every week w one ncaa tournament bid a decade. we're at 2-3 with 4/5 at home coming up and 4 games we should win and a 5th against a team we've been good against lately so I'm not ready to concede the season. you get 4/5 wins, 5/5 with uva and you're at 6-4, 2-0 in the conference needing 1/3 against osu/psu/terps to at least make the b1g tournament and get a chance to go the ncaas. Not ideal at all, but it's where it is. Given how many towson and loyola kids come in not highly ranked and then play well I'm not interested either in debating the future kids either. we used to have a recruiting thread on the other place. we should probably create a new one so the current forum doesn't get distracted.

cole williams has 12 turnovers in 5 games and 6 goals. concannon has as many goals as kuhn. Forry/connor have 5 combined goals in 5 games. that's a first midfield that's not getting it done and 1/3 of the attack that's creating opportunities for the other team. If you're not supposed to rely on 2 jrs with experience, a sr with 4 years of run and a soph with experience who are you supposed to count on? The transition scoring has been more reliable than the first midfield and williams. Cuse got back into the game and we lost chances to blow them out early with 2 concannon failed picks and williams getting burned on d-after 4 years he should know how to do that. the defense is harder to assess because we don't know what assignments are made, but danny jones helped cuse close it out late with that dumb penalty and again while you always have youth that's a unit with owen, rapine, foley, kuuuuuhn and danny jones that has experience and if they're struggling this year what makes you think it gets better when jones and foley move on? It feels like we're back to the later ranagan years where the bronson kellys and their 1/21 shooting were getting consistent run. With taite out a lot of guys got some run last weekend mabett, zinn etc and maybe they get more of a shot. It's me I'm letting the 2nd midfield start and get the quality minutes until connor/forry can figure it out and concannon can give consistent minutes.

[Wood Sticks 4ever]

A short comment on moving DeSimone off the first midfield. Don't.

For whatever reason, he has been much less aggressive than he was last year or in HS. As an example, he has taken 11 shots in the first 5 games this year. Last year he took 10 shots just against Princeton. He can be just what this offense needs - he can dodge, force slides and make the right pass. I saw him weekly at Smithtown East and two things he never lacked was confidence and a willingness to shoot. Last year too, he was willing to attack the cage at every opportunity.

This year, not so much. I'm not buying the weight gain argument either - I'm seeing tentative, not slow.

My point is this - for whatever reason, the kid lost his mojo. If the team is going to succeed we need a strong dodger and he (and Zinn) are likely our best options. Leave him on the first line, roll him out as often as possible against MSM and Delaware, and hope he snaps out of it. His upside is pretty spectacular.

[HopFan16]

cole williams has 12 turnovers in 5 games and 6 goals.

Pretty sure you've now cited this specific statistic on three separate occasions. We're well aware how many turnovers the kid has. Your overall point is mostly correct—yes, he needs to take better care of the ball. He's a dodging attackman so some turnovers come with the territory but certainly, sure, he can afford to cut down on them. But you're laying it on a bit thick. As one of two, maybe three guys who have demonstrated the ability to beat their man and score, he's not coming out of the lineup. Not sure what pointing this out accomplishes.

williams getting burned on d-after 4 years he should know how to do that.

Now it just seems like you have it out for the guy. Blaming an attackman for getting beat on defense? If he's playing defense then that means somebody else didn't do their jobs. It also means that the D guys should have helped him out and slid to his guy earlier. And this isn't the point but he's a junior, so it's 3 years, not 4. I'm sure that as an experienced lacrosse player he has some idea of how to play defense but "knowing" and "doing" are very different things. Blaming an attackman for getting beat on defense is like blaming Foley if he were to end up on offense for some reason and not be able to beat his matchup. Yes he knows HOW to split dodge, but he's got a longpole, and he doesn't practice that everyday.

A short comment on moving DeSimone off the first midfield. Don't.

For whatever reason, he has been much less aggressive than he was last year or in HS. As an example, he has taken 11 shots in the first 5 games this year. Last year he took 10 shots just against Princeton. He can be just what this offense needs - he can dodge, force slides and make the right pass. I saw him weekly at Smithtown East and two things he never lacked was confidence and a willingness to shoot. Last year too, he was willing to attack the cage at every opportunity.

This year, not so much. I'm not buying the weight gain argument either - I'm seeing tentative, not slow.

My point is this - for whatever reason, the kid lost his mojo. If the team is going to succeed we need a strong dodger and he (and Zinn) are likely our best options. Leave him on the first line, roll him out as often as possible against MSM and Delaware, and hope he snaps out of it. His upside is pretty spectacular.

Agree with most of this, and while I do think he may have lost some of his confidence, I'd also argue that whatever was going on with him physically (whether it being sick or getting slower, or both) had something to do with how that started.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

I wonder how much of this is related to the new shot clock.

Maybe most of the offense is pressing too hard, trying to adapt.

One big thing, and I got this from a parent years ago: players develop “rabbit ears”, trying to hear commands from their sideline, and also with those rabbit ears they develop hesitancy and a desire to not be the one who makes a mistake.

Combine that with the pressure of the shot clock, and it makes sense that people are trying to squeeze strategically placed charcoal into diamonds.

Epstein might be standing out partially because it’s all new to him, whereas everyone else is adapting to the change from the much slower pace of previous seasons.

Pressure really does come from the top down.

Go out and play the damn game and have fun.

[Old Lax Fan]

In the first 13 games of 2018, DeSimone had 15 goals, 1 assist on 54 shots.
In the last 4 games of 2018, DeSimone had 1 goal, 1 assist on 3 shots.

This year it is 1 goal, 4 assists, on 11 shots.

Something happened in 2018. Either teams figured him out or he was injured or both.