All things CoronaVirus

[jhu72]

Sorry but I disagree. IT is absolutely a game changer. If it decreases the amount of individuals in the hospital then that changes the game

That's my point: where do you think these people are going to get these therapeutics, if not the hospital?

They have to know they have Covid (how do they find that out?). They have to believe in Covid. Then they have to arrive at wherever you think they're going to get these therapeutics within the correct time window. Someone has to track their progress. And again...these folks have already signaled that they either don't have access to a doctor....or do not trust said doctor.

Do you not see the problem here?

I highly doubt that we as a country will vaccinate ourselves out of this mess.

I agree. That's the entire problem.

When will these individuals go see a Doctor? When they are sick. Then they will listen intently. I had this very conversation with my Dr the other day regarding the monoclonal treatment. Would not listen to the Dr until they are sick then it becomes real. Once it is real then the specter of the EUA goes away when they get the same thing with the monoclonal treatment. These individuals are already streaming to see medical professionals at the ER.

I will acknowledge the timing issue as a potential factor. As I said, I do not or have not read the ultimate stop date for any effectiveness.

I do not live in a real rural (kind of sometimes rural) area so access is not as much an issue but this nonsense is not coming just from people who do not have access to medical advice. I hear about it almost every evening at home.

So while I may agree with you in some respect. I absolutely think the anti viral is a game changer if it continues to perform as it did during the trials.

... these people won't go see the doctor when they are sick -- certainly the case for the men. They go when they are on their death beds, maybe. It is a continuum. Medicine and preventive medicine especially is anathema to them.

[SCLaxAttack]

IMO, this attitude (including Biden and the administration) is the biggest obstacle to defeating the virus and hopefully regaining some sense of normalcy.

Tech -- on this, you are 1000% wrong. The evidence is OVERWHELMING. The vax refusers are just going to refuse.

It doesn't matter if you give them more medical information. It doesn't matter if you treat them nice. It doesn't mater if you call them dumb fork MAGA mouth breathers (which is exactly what they are). They still refuse. Doesn't matter if they get Covid, they still refuse. Doesn't matter if people around them die, they still refuse. Doesn't matter if you give them lottery tickets or gift cards or scholarships -- they still refuse. They are unreachable and unpersuade-able and beyond facts.

We've been far too accommodating to the mouth breathers. Only one thing works -- forget the carrots and smack them with sticks. Take the shot or you are fired. Take the shot or pay $200 extra per month. Voila -- they all take the shot.

Our Gov. Polis has it right. At this point, it is your own darn fault if you get sick. There's plenty of life jackets to go around. But some dumb forks refuse to put them on as the boat sinks.

While we would never actually refuse to treat the dumb ass MAGA mouth breathers when they get sick, it is completely appropriate for the rest of us to call them out for being so stupid, so selfish and so forking hypocritical.

Wah wah wah -- I don't trust Fauci and doctors and being forced to be a lab rat. My body, my choice (unless pregnant), muh ruy-iots!!

Wait wait wait -- I'm sick now. Please give me a bed in the ICU and pump me up with every experimental EUA treatment available. Who cares if those cost like 10,000X more than the shot I've refused to take for a whole forking year.

The obvious and overwhelming facts are clear. At this point, it is all their forking fault.

But since they are, in fact, so forking deplorable, it probably does make sense to spend extra resources to design yellow life jackets (i.e. therapeutics) since the mouth breathers just won't wear the orange ones (which are cheaper and work better and in plentiful supply).

Whoop, whoop! Yes. YES. YESSSSS!

Is there any medical reason why someone infected can’t be vaccinated, i.e. if you’re sick and come in for a monoclonal it isn’t provided unless you take your first vaccine shot first?

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.statnews.com/2021/12/22/a-c ... -forecast/

I wonder if Joe Rogan or the guy from Men In Black can get him on?

[Bart]

Sorry but I disagree. IT is absolutely a game changer. If it decreases the amount of individuals in the hospital then that changes the game

That's my point: where do you think these people are going to get these therapeutics, if not the hospital?

They have to know they have Covid (how do they find that out?). They have to believe in Covid. Then they have to arrive at wherever you think they're going to get these therapeutics within the correct time window. Someone has to track their progress. And again...these folks have already signaled that they either don't have access to a doctor....or do not trust said doctor.

Do you not see the problem here?

I highly doubt that we as a country will vaccinate ourselves out of this mess.

I agree. That's the entire problem.

When will these individuals go see a Doctor? When they are sick. Then they will listen intently. I had this very conversation with my Dr the other day regarding the monoclonal treatment. Would not listen to the Dr until they are sick then it becomes real. Once it is real then the specter of the EUA goes away when they get the same thing with the monoclonal treatment. These individuals are already streaming to see medical professionals at the ER.

I will acknowledge the timing issue as a potential factor. As I said, I do not or have not read the ultimate stop date for any effectiveness.

I do not live in a real rural (kind of sometimes rural) area so access is not as much an issue but this nonsense is not coming just from people who do not have access to medical advice. I hear about it almost every evening at home.

So while I may agree with you in some respect. I absolutely think the anti viral is a game changer if it continues to perform as it did during the trials.

... these people won't go see the doctor when they are sick -- certainly the case for the men. They go when they are on their death beds, maybe. It is a continuum. Medicine and preventive medicine especially is anathema to them.

Well I’m basing some of my thoughts on a conversation with My Dr just last week regarding people coming into his monoclonal ab clinic. He certainly didn’t say that all his patients were women snd obviously none were on their death beds. Certainly a small anecdotal sample . Gee maybe we just have more enlightened mouth breathers.

The ones swmbo sees at the hospital are sick. Icu full of men snd women but as you know for some reason this hits males harder.

[PizzaSnake]

Amazing. Vaccination Zealots rule! I'll have to take responsibility for that phrase on here.

I'm referring to people on here who castigate, shame, belittle, from some imagined moral high ground, anyone who may have personal reasons or simply disagree with them re Covid vaccines. Vaccination Zealots have slapped a contemporary "scarlet letter" on the un-vaxxed.

Here's the thing...if the idea is to defeat the virus, why wouldn't these same people, who complain the most, not want to give anyone who tests positive, access to as many tools to defeat the virus as possible? Otherwise, perhaps their motives aren't so enlightened and certainly not logical or as ethical as they believe.

To say treatment should be withheld from the un-vaxxed is simply heinous. Doctors who have adopted this attitude have forgotten they took the Hippocratic Oath.

IMO, this attitude (including Biden and the administration) is the biggest obstacle to defeating the virus and hopefully regaining some sense of normalcy.

What’s missing from most of the discussions I read here and in other places, and I believe should be constantly harped on, continues to be that higher vaccination rates will significantly reduce the opportunity for Covid to mutate to variants that may ultimately completely beat both our current vaccines and therapeutics.

Earlier on thread:

“ Treating them after they have contracted (and possibly incubated a new and lethal subclade) is not particularly useful to controlling this virus.”

“ Everything that needs to be said has already been said. But since no one was listening, everything must be said again.”
André Gide

[jhu72]

Sorry but I disagree. IT is absolutely a game changer. If it decreases the amount of individuals in the hospital then that changes the game

That's my point: where do you think these people are going to get these therapeutics, if not the hospital?

They have to know they have Covid (how do they find that out?). They have to believe in Covid. Then they have to arrive at wherever you think they're going to get these therapeutics within the correct time window. Someone has to track their progress. And again...these folks have already signaled that they either don't have access to a doctor....or do not trust said doctor.

Do you not see the problem here?

I highly doubt that we as a country will vaccinate ourselves out of this mess.

I agree. That's the entire problem.

When will these individuals go see a Doctor? When they are sick. Then they will listen intently. I had this very conversation with my Dr the other day regarding the monoclonal treatment. Would not listen to the Dr until they are sick then it becomes real. Once it is real then the specter of the EUA goes away when they get the same thing with the monoclonal treatment. These individuals are already streaming to see medical professionals at the ER.

I will acknowledge the timing issue as a potential factor. As I said, I do not or have not read the ultimate stop date for any effectiveness.

I do not live in a real rural (kind of sometimes rural) area so access is not as much an issue but this nonsense is not coming just from people who do not have access to medical advice. I hear about it almost every evening at home.

So while I may agree with you in some respect. I absolutely think the anti viral is a game changer if it continues to perform as it did during the trials.

... these people won't go see the doctor when they are sick -- certainly the case for the men. They go when they are on their death beds, maybe. It is a continuum. Medicine and preventive medicine especially is anathema to them.

Well I’m basing some of my thoughts on a conversation with My Dr just last week regarding people coming into his monoclonal ab clinic. He certainly didn’t say that all his patients were women snd obviously none were on their death beds. Certainly a small anecdotal sample . Gee maybe we just have more enlightened mouth breathers.

The ones swmbo sees at the hospital are sick. Icu full of men snd women but as you know for some reason this hits males harder.

... I was describing a class that makes up the unvaccinated. I am basing my description on a life lead with the types of individuals I described. These "men" were MAGA types before it became a thing. Very much against doctors and medicine. Trust no one who is an "expert". Preventative medicine is just a scam to enrich doctors. Everything in life is a scam/conspiracy to try and part them from their money. The world has always been against them.

If sick they would never go to a doctor, would just live through it, until they got better, or sometimes got much worse ("death bed" or not quite). You could at that point with badgering (their wives could) get them to a doctor or hospital. Very different situation when it came to their wives and children, in some cases, although not all. There was an economic component, medicine costs money, I will deny myself.

Not sure these people today understand, the medicine for COVID is free, but then you run into their "I built it myself, don't need handouts" mentality.

Once they get an idea in their head, there is no shaking it -- even if they know deep inside they are wrong.

The women are loyal to and subservient to the men at least when the women are young. This seems to change as the women age, as in many cases they separate/diverge from their husbands worldview. Seems especially true if the woman (wife) takes up a job after raising the kids.

This describes a significant class of folks you are up against when trying to vaccinate the population. Probably the largest unvaccinated class remaining. They are not inherently anti-vaxx.

[a fan]

Sorry but I disagree. IT is absolutely a game changer. If it decreases the amount of individuals in the hospital then that changes the game

That's my point: where do you think these people are going to get these therapeutics, if not the hospital?

They have to know they have Covid (how do they find that out?). They have to believe in Covid. Then they have to arrive at wherever you think they're going to get these therapeutics within the correct time window. Someone has to track their progress. And again...these folks have already signaled that they either don't have access to a doctor....or do not trust said doctor.

Do you not see the problem here?

I highly doubt that we as a country will vaccinate ourselves out of this mess.

I agree. That's the entire problem.

When will these individuals go see a Doctor? When they are sick.

Right. That's my point: HOW sick? Too sick for these new treatments to help?

You're assuming these are rational patients, Bart. IMHO, it's a mistake to assume we know how they will behave.

I was 1000% wrong in that when I thought the rubber met the road, that these free thinkers would quietly get the vaccine, and we'd be well north of 90% vaxx rate. Boy, was I wrong.

So while I may agree with you in some respect. I absolutely think the anti viral is a game changer if it continues to perform as it did during the trials.

I'd say that we need to remember that we're talking about tens of millions of Americans here. It ain't like we're just hoping to take care of a few stragglers......

We'll see. I hope you're right, and I'm wrong yet again.

I can say this.....if I'm Putin? I'm filling the internet with conspiracy theories about all new treatments. And no, i'm not kidding.

Which is why we HAD to discharge those who refused the shot. You can't have people serving that are psychologically inclined to buy nonsense that they read on social media, and choose THAT over things like the simple fact that all their leaders are vaccinated.

[jhu72]

Birx refused to participate in some Trump dog and pony shows.

[youthathletics]

Sorry but I disagree. IT is absolutely a game changer. If it decreases the amount of individuals in the hospital then that changes the game

That's my point: where do you think these people are going to get these therapeutics, if not the hospital?

They have to know they have Covid (how do they find that out?). They have to believe in Covid. Then they have to arrive at wherever you think they're going to get these therapeutics within the correct time window. Someone has to track their progress. And again...these folks have already signaled that they either don't have access to a doctor....or do not trust said doctor.

Do you not see the problem here?

I highly doubt that we as a country will vaccinate ourselves out of this mess.

I agree. That's the entire problem.

When will these individuals go see a Doctor? When they are sick.

Right. That's my point: HOW sick? Too sick for these new treatments to help?

You're assuming these are rational patients, Bart. IMHO, it's a mistake to assume we know how they will behave.

I was 1000% wrong in that when I thought the rubber met the road, that these free thinkers would quietly get the vaccine, and we'd be well north of 90% vaxx rate. Boy, was I wrong.

So while I may agree with you in some respect. I absolutely think the anti viral is a game changer if it continues to perform as it did during the trials.

I'd say that we need to remember that we're talking about tens of millions of Americans here. It ain't like we're just hoping to take care of a few stragglers......

We'll see. I hope you're right, and I'm wrong yet again.

I can say this.....if I'm Putin? I'm filling the internet with conspiracy theories about all new treatments. And no, i'm not kidding.

Which is why we HAD to discharge those who refused the shot. You can't have people serving that are psychologically inclined to buy nonsense that they read on social media, and choose THAT over things like the simple fact that all their leaders are vaccinated.

My boss and his family were down with cv-19 this week. They were told a 7 day wait for monoclonal anti-bodies. Got a call yesterday and Kaiser DR. went to their home.....nice.

[tech37]

IMO, this attitude (including Biden and the administration) is the biggest obstacle to defeating the virus and hopefully regaining some sense of normalcy.

Tech -- on this, you are 1000% wrong. The evidence is OVERWHELMING. The vax refusers are just going to refuse.

It doesn't matter if you give them more medical information. It doesn't matter if you treat them nice. It doesn't mater if you call them dumb fork MAGA mouth breathers (which is exactly what they are). They still refuse. Doesn't matter if they get Covid, they still refuse. Doesn't matter if people around them die, they still refuse. Doesn't matter if you give them lottery tickets or gift cards or scholarships -- they still refuse. They are unreachable and unpersuade-able and beyond facts.

We've been far too accommodating to the mouth breathers. Only one thing works -- forget the carrots and smack them with sticks. Take the shot or you are fired. Take the shot or pay $200 extra per month. Voila -- they all take the shot.

Our Gov. Polis has it right. At this point, it is your own darn fault if you get sick. There's plenty of life jackets to go around. But some dumb forks refuse to put them on as the boat sinks.

While we would never actually refuse to treat the dumb ass MAGA mouth breathers when they get sick, it is completely appropriate for the rest of us to call them out for being so stupid, so selfish and so forking hypocritical.

Wah wah wah -- I don't trust Fauci and doctors and being forced to be a lab rat. My body, my choice (unless pregnant), muh ruy-iots!!

Wait wait wait -- I'm sick now. Please give me a bed in the ICU and pump me up with every experimental EUA treatment available. Who cares if those cost like 10,000X more than the shot I've refused to take for a whole forking year.

The obvious and overwhelming facts are clear. At this point, it is all their forking fault.

But since they are, in fact, so forking deplorable, it probably does make sense to spend extra resources to design yellow life jackets (i.e. therapeutics) since the mouth breathers just won't wear the orange ones (which are cheaper and work better and in plentiful supply).

Whoop, whoop! Yes. YES. YESSSSS!

Is there any medical reason why someone infected can’t be vaccinated, i.e. if you’re sick and come in for a monoclonal it isn’t provided unless you take your first vaccine shot first?

You guys are "1000% wrong." It's simple human nature. If a person is sick and really feels like sh!t, and aside from feeling awful they are scared, they will take pills. Unless they're a Christian Scientist, I guarantee they're takers.

And a fan, therapeutics should be available at ERs for less fortunate folks.

[jhu72]

IHME model makes an interesting prediction.

[Typical Lax Dad]

IHME model makes an interesting prediction.

I thought in Spring of 2020 the Oracles of Fanlax were telling us that most of the population had already been exposed and we just didn’t know it…..and then we would reach heard immunity by May 2020…..well La di da it looks like only 40% have been exposed!

[ggait]

From my little anecdotal window on the world, IHME is probably right.

There are way more Covid infections flying around our family/neighborhood/friend group right now than at any prior time during the pandemic. The Mrs. may have just picked it up, although we don't know since she can't get a rapid test until tomorrow. And the PCR test available today would not come back until Saturday.

All the cases are mild, as expected, since I run with the fully vaxed crowd. But positive break throughs are everywhere! And now with Omicron, they are basically unavoidable. No matter how many tests you throw at them.

I think we are going to see in the next 6-8 weeks what a pandemic of the unvaxed really looks like. Too late now to get vaxed before the wave hits in earnest. Not enough supply of therapeutics to go around. Only hope at this point for the unvaxed is that Omicron is much milder than Delta. But as the saying goes, hope really isn't a strategy.

And the vaxed will pretty much be fine.

[wgdsr]

IHME model makes an interesting prediction.

I thought in Spring of 2020 the Oracles of Fanlax were telling us that most of the population had already been exposed and we just didn’t know it…..and then we would reach heard immunity by May 2020…..well La di da it looks like only 40% have been exposed!

that is one crazy article!!!

models are back!!!

you're hitching your wagon to ihme? > 90% asymptomatic, where did murray get that?!?!? imperial says 20-45% less hospitalization, murray has 90-96%!! and 97-99% less lethal, it's not even the flu!

it's a cage match, ihme vs imperial for the trilogy!!!

[tech37]

IHME model makes an interesting prediction.

I thought in Spring of 2020 the Oracles of Fanlax were telling us that most of the population had already been exposed and we just didn’t know it…..and then we would reach heard immunity by May 2020…..well La di da it looks like only 40% have been exposed!

You of all people referring to others as "oracles of fanlax"!?

[wgdsr]

Amazing. Vaccination Zealots rule! I'll have to take responsibility for that phrase on here.

I'm referring to people on here who castigate, shame, belittle, from some imagined moral high ground, anyone who may have personal reasons or simply disagree with them re Covid vaccines. Vaccination Zealots have slapped a contemporary "scarlet letter" on the un-vaxxed.

Here's the thing...if the idea is to defeat the virus, why wouldn't these same people, who complain the most, not want to give anyone who tests positive, access to as many tools to defeat the virus as possible? Otherwise, perhaps their motives aren't so enlightened and certainly not logical or as ethical as they believe.

To say treatment should be withheld from the un-vaxxed is simply heinous. Doctors who have adopted this attitude have forgotten they took the Hippocratic Oath.

IMO, this attitude (including Biden and the administration) is the biggest obstacle to defeating the virus and hopefully regaining some sense of normalcy.

What’s missing from most of the discussions I read here and in other places, and I believe should be constantly harped on, continues to be that higher vaccination rates will significantly reduce the opportunity for Covid to mutate to variants that may ultimately completely beat both our current vaccines and therapeutics.

WHO says Covid vaccine booster programs will prolong pandemic

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/22/who-say ... idappshare

this is tangentially what i thought of on your post and a number of other posts over the months. until and unless both our borders are closed and every country gets vaccinations at the same rate... a more susceptible area is just more likely to be the genesis of a variant that will hop on over and then take over. see: alpha, delta, omicron.

this thing is going to send us on twists and turns until, hopefully, it's not.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Amazing. Vaccination Zealots rule! I'll have to take responsibility for that phrase on here.

I'm referring to people on here who castigate, shame, belittle, from some imagined moral high ground, anyone who may have personal reasons or simply disagree with them re Covid vaccines. Vaccination Zealots have slapped a contemporary "scarlet letter" on the un-vaxxed.

Here's the thing...if the idea is to defeat the virus, why wouldn't these same people, who complain the most, not want to give anyone who tests positive, access to as many tools to defeat the virus as possible? Otherwise, perhaps their motives aren't so enlightened and certainly not logical or as ethical as they believe.

To say treatment should be withheld from the un-vaxxed is simply heinous. Doctors who have adopted this attitude have forgotten they took the Hippocratic Oath.

IMO, this attitude (including Biden and the administration) is the biggest obstacle to defeating the virus and hopefully regaining some sense of normalcy.

What’s missing from most of the discussions I read here and in other places, and I believe should be constantly harped on, continues to be that higher vaccination rates will significantly reduce the opportunity for Covid to mutate to variants that may ultimately completely beat both our current vaccines and therapeutics.

WHO says Covid vaccine booster programs will prolong pandemic

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/22/who-say ... idappshare

this is tangentially what i thought of on your post and a number of other posts over the months. until and unless both our borders are closed and every country gets vaccinations at the same rate... a more susceptible area is just more likely to be the genesis of a variant that will hop on over and then take over. see: alpha, delta, omicron.

this thing is going to send us on twists and turns until, hopefully, it's not.

I agree. If you are an American and you haven’t been vaccinated, it’s too late. We are sending excess supply, over the quantity needed for boosters to poor countries. You had your chance.

[a fan]

And a fan, therapeutics should be available at ERs for less fortunate folks.

That's not how it works. The doctors dole treatment out according who they deem to be at most risk, rich or poor.

[jhu72]

IHME model makes an interesting prediction.

I thought in Spring of 2020 the Oracles of Fanlax were telling us that most of the population had already been exposed and we just didn’t know it…..and then we would reach heard immunity by May 2020…..well La di da it looks like only 40% have been exposed!

that is one crazy article!!!

models are back!!!

you're hitching your wagon to ihme? > 90% asymptomatic, where did murray get that?!?!? imperial says 20-45% less hospitalization, murray has 90-96%!! and 97-99% less lethal, it's not even the flu!

it's a cage match, ihme vs imperial for the trilogy!!!

... I warned you, it was interesting.

[jhu72]

From my little anecdotal window on the world, IHME is probably right.

There are way more Covid infections flying around our family/neighborhood/friend group right now than at any prior time during the pandemic. The Mrs. may have just picked it up, although we don't know since she can't get a rapid test until tomorrow. And the PCR test available today would not come back until Saturday.

All the cases are mild, as expected, since I run with the fully vaxed crowd. But positive break throughs are everywhere! And now with Omicron, they are basically unavoidable. No matter how many tests you throw at them.

I think we are going to see in the next 6-8 weeks what a pandemic of the unvaxed really looks like. Too late now to get vaxed before the wave hits in earnest. Not enough supply of therapeutics to go around. Only hope at this point for the unvaxed is that Omicron is much milder than Delta. But as the saying goes, hope really isn't a strategy.

And the vaxed will pretty much be fine.

-- not sure this agrees with IHME model, but your analysis agrees with my gut (which is sometimes right and sometimes wrong).