All things CoronaVirus

[MDlaxfan76]

DEPLORABLE


https://www.cleveland.com/coronavirus/2 ... eople.html

‘Was just briefed by a major hospital network CEO,” Weinstein writes. “It’s not just that they’re beyond capacity. The families of their unvaccinated patients are ATTACKING caregivers for not giving them the ‘right’ meds and (quack) treatments.

caste system..."camps".

Give'em some land and tents in Oklahoma or the Ozarks and send all the docs and nurses who refuse to be vaccinated there, and all the unvaccinated refuseniks who get infected and sick...let'em pay for it themselves.

But no more access to medical care paid by the rest of us.

[a fan]

https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2 ... ts/360089/

US Army Creates Single Vaccine Effective Against All COVID, SARS Variants
Within weeks, Walter Reed researchers expect to announce that human trials show success against Omicron—and even future strains.

All well and good I suppose. Let's hope it works as advertised and is safe of course.

The anti-vax issue doesn't go away and probably won't. Unless mandates are enforced, we're not going to see any new takers, just my opinion.

I keep harping on it but that is why we need therapeutics access for everyone no matter how many vaccines are developed. That will be the game changer.

Helpful? Sure. Game changer? Completely disagree.

You have rational, relatively wealthy people in mind when you picture how these therapeutics are going to work. Folks who see the doctor a couple times a year, dentist once a year, optometrist once a year.....and money for all of the above.

You have to, instead, picture the average anti-vaxxer. More likely to be: poor, uneducated, under 50, uninsured, and suburban-rural.

These therapeutics aren't the same as the vaccine. Vaccines? You can take them any time. Therapuetics? You have to take them at the right time for them to work. And everything I just wrote about anti-vaxxers is working against that timing. Plus they don't trust doctors (supposedly) or science (supposedly). And even if they want to go...... doctors aren't all that easy to get to for most/many of these people. So how do you get them in to get these therapeutics at the correct time? And I'm talking about getting them in in large enough numbers to be a "game changer".

We can't get out of this fully without them taking vaccines. IMHO. I'd be delighted to be wrong.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2 ... ts/360089/

US Army Creates Single Vaccine Effective Against All COVID, SARS Variants
Within weeks, Walter Reed researchers expect to announce that human trials show success against Omicron—and even future strains.

All well and good I suppose. Let's hope it works as advertised and is safe of course.

The anti-vax issue doesn't go away and probably won't. Unless mandates are enforced, we're not going to see any new takers, just my opinion.

I keep harping on it but that is why we need therapeutics access for everyone no matter how many vaccines are developed. That will be the game changer.

Helpful? Sure. Game changer? Completely disagree.

You have rational, relatively wealthy people in mind when you picture how these therapeutics are going to work. Folks who see the doctor a couple times a year, dentist once a year, optometrist once a year.....and money for all of the above.

You have to, instead, picture the average anti-vaxxer. More likely to be: poor, uneducated, under 50, uninsured, and suburban-rural.

These therapeutics aren't the same as the vaccine. Vaccines? You can take them any time. Therapuetics? You have to take them at the right time for them to work. And everything I just wrote about anti-vaxxers is working against that timing. Plus they don't trust doctors (supposedly) or science (supposedly). And even if they want to go...... doctors aren't all that easy to get to for most/many of these people. So how do you get them in to get these therapeutics at the correct time? And I'm talking about getting them in in large enough numbers to be a "game changer".

We can't get out of this fully without them taking vaccines. IMHO. I'd be delighted to be wrong.

These people expect to move to the front of the line at the expense of others.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2 ... ts/360089/

US Army Creates Single Vaccine Effective Against All COVID, SARS Variants
Within weeks, Walter Reed researchers expect to announce that human trials show success against Omicron—and even future strains.

All well and good I suppose. Let's hope it works as advertised and is safe of course.

The anti-vax issue doesn't go away and probably won't. Unless mandates are enforced, we're not going to see any new takers, just my opinion.

I keep harping on it but that is why we need therapeutics access for everyone no matter how many vaccines are developed. That will be the game changer.

Nice choice of words. Just as circumspect with Ivermectin and HCL.

[Bart]

apparently the monoclonals that worked with delta don't work with omicron; new formula is in production, but supplies are short...delta continues to be causing most deaths, but that could change as omicron progresses.

Not true. Sotrovimab still works on omicron, according to them. Problem is supply.

[tech37]

Amazing. Vaccination Zealots rule! I'll have to take responsibility for that phrase on here.

I'm referring to people on here who castigate, shame, belittle, from some imagined moral high ground, anyone who may have personal reasons or simply disagree with them re Covid vaccines. Vaccination Zealots have slapped a contemporary "scarlet letter" on the un-vaxxed.

Here's the thing...if the idea is to defeat the virus, why wouldn't these same people, who complain the most, not want to give anyone who tests positive, access to as many tools to defeat the virus as possible? Otherwise, perhaps their motives aren't so enlightened and certainly not logical or as ethical as they believe.

To say treatment should be withheld from the un-vaxxed is simply heinous. Doctors who have adopted this attitude have forgotten they took the Hippocratic Oath.

IMO, this attitude (including Biden and the administration) is the biggest obstacle to defeating the virus and hopefully regaining some sense of normalcy.

[PizzaSnake]

Amazing. Vaccination Zealots rule! I'll have to take responsibility for that phrase on here.

I'm referring to people on here who castigate, shame, belittle, from some imagined moral high ground, anyone who may have personal reasons or simply disagree with them re Covid vaccines. Vaccination Zealots have slapped a contemporary "scarlet letter" on the un-vaxxed.

Here's the thing...if the idea is to defeat the virus, why wouldn't these same people, who complain the most, not want to give anyone who tests positive, access to as many tools to defeat the virus as possible? Otherwise, perhaps their motives aren't so enlightened and certainly not logical or as ethical as they believe.

To say treatment should be withheld from the un-vaxxed is simply heinous. Doctors who have adopted this attitude have forgotten they took the Hippocratic Oath.

IMO, this attitude (including Biden and the administration) is the biggest obstacle to defeating the virus and hopefully regaining some sense of normalcy.

Treating them after they have contracted (and possibly incubated a new and lethal subclade) is not particularly useful to controlling this virus.

Or, to speak in the vernacular, “fork ‘em!!”

[Bart]

https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2 ... ts/360089/

US Army Creates Single Vaccine Effective Against All COVID, SARS Variants
Within weeks, Walter Reed researchers expect to announce that human trials show success against Omicron—and even future strains.

All well and good I suppose. Let's hope it works as advertised and is safe of course.

The anti-vax issue doesn't go away and probably won't. Unless mandates are enforced, we're not going to see any new takers, just my opinion.

I keep harping on it but that is why we need therapeutics access for everyone no matter how many vaccines are developed. That will be the game changer.

Helpful? Sure. Game changer? Completely disagree.

You have rational, relatively wealthy people in mind when you picture how these therapeutics are going to work. Folks who see the doctor a couple times a year, dentist once a year, optometrist once a year.....and money for all of the above.

You have to, instead, picture the average anti-vaxxer. More likely to be: poor, uneducated, under 50, uninsured, and suburban-rural.

These therapeutics aren't the same as the vaccine. Vaccines? You can take them any time. Therapuetics? You have to take them at the right time for them to work. And everything I just wrote about anti-vaxxers is working against that timing. Plus they don't trust doctors (supposedly) or science (supposedly). And even if they want to go...... doctors aren't all that easy to get to for most/many of these people. So how do you get them in to get these therapeutics at the correct time? And I'm talking about getting them in in large enough numbers to be a "game changer".

We can't get out of this fully without them taking vaccines. IMHO. I'd be delighted to be wrong.

Sorry but I disagree. IT is absolutely a game changer. If it decreases the amount of individuals in the hospital then that changes the game. immensely. Plaxovid was looked at from 3 days and 5 days onset and found to be almost equally effective. What is the maximum time frame that they will work? Has yet to be determined. Is it the thing that will get us out of the mess? Probably not alone but it changes the game.

I highly doubt that we as a country will vaccinate ourselves out of this mess.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Amazing. Vaccination Zealots rule! I'll have to take responsibility for that phrase on here.

I'm referring to people on here who castigate, shame, belittle, from some imagined moral high ground, anyone who may have personal reasons or simply disagree with them re Covid vaccines. Vaccination Zealots have slapped a contemporary "scarlet letter" on the un-vaxxed.

Here's the thing...if the idea is to defeat the virus, why wouldn't these same people, who complain the most, not want to give anyone who tests positive, access to as many tools to defeat the virus as possible? Otherwise, perhaps their motives aren't so enlightened and certainly not logical or as ethical as they believe.

To say treatment should be withheld from the un-vaxxed is simply heinous. Doctors who have adopted this attitude have forgotten they took the Hippocratic Oath.

IMO, this attitude (including Biden and the administration) is the biggest obstacle to defeating the virus and hopefully regaining some sense of normalcy.

If you test positive and have been vaccinated or have a legitimate medical reason for not being vaccinated, full suite of services for you and your insurance picks up the tab. If you test positive and have refused vaccines for no legitimate reason, full suite of services for you to, but you pay for it, pay increased premiums or a higher deductible or wait at the end of the line for service or like being seated at a restaurant next to the kitchen. I am tired of subsidizing people that don’t respect person responsibility….aren’t you?

[MDlaxfan76]

apparently the monoclonals that worked with delta don't work with omicron; new formula is in production, but supplies are short...delta continues to be causing most deaths, but that could change as omicron progresses.

Not true. Sotrovimab still works on omicron, according to them. Problem is supply.

I'm not a scientist and this ain't my field, didn't even stay in a Holiday Inn last night...but...https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03829-0

Sotrovimab is the best of the lot. Even so, the concentration required to halve viral replication was roughly three times higher for Omicron than for other coronavirus variants. Although sotrovimab’s drop in potency against the new variant is significant, says Stuart Turville, a virologist at the Kirby Institute in Sydney, Australia, and a co-author of one of the preprints2, “it’s nothing like what we saw for the others”. That might be because sotrovimab targets a part of the spike protein that is unchanged across many related coronaviruses.

Apparently, sotrivimab is the best of the original monoclonals for omicron, but it loses 3X potency. The rest are worse.

Plenty of supply of monoclonals, just not those that are effective against omicron.

Supposedly there's a new formula now in production that works better.

But note, despite the availability of monoclonals we'd been bumping along at 1,000 + deaths these past months with Delta, pre Omicron.

Not a panacea, at best.

On the other hand, vaxxed and boosted seems close to perfect protection against death or even serious hospitalization from omicron...but time will tell if that holds up. Hope so.

And these pills may prove to be better than the monoclonals and much less expensive if I understand correctly...haven't studied as yet...is there a timing issue for them? Gotta do it right away or such? EDIT: yes.

Seems to me that we're parsing the meaning of 'game changer'...I agree that keeping more people out of the hospital is a very good thing. But I also agree that it shouldn't be thought of as a complete answer, nor an excuse to be unvaxxed.

[jhu72]

Pfizer pill just given FDA OK.

[Bart]

Pfizer pill just given FDA OK.

nice

[Bart]

Amazing. Vaccination Zealots rule! I'll have to take responsibility for that phrase on here.

I'm referring to people on here who castigate, shame, belittle, from some imagined moral high ground, anyone who may have personal reasons or simply disagree with them re Covid vaccines. Vaccination Zealots have slapped a contemporary "scarlet letter" on the un-vaxxed.

Here's the thing...if the idea is to defeat the virus, why wouldn't these same people, who complain the most, not want to give anyone who tests positive, access to as many tools to defeat the virus as possible? Otherwise, perhaps their motives aren't so enlightened and certainly not logical or as ethical as they believe.

To say treatment should be withheld from the un-vaxxed is simply heinous. Doctors who have adopted this attitude have forgotten they took the Hippocratic Oath.

IMO, this attitude (including Biden and the administration) is the biggest obstacle to defeating the virus and hopefully regaining some sense of normalcy.

If you test positive and have been vaccinated or have a legitimate medical reason for not being vaccinated, full suite of services for you and your insurance picks up the tab. If you test positive and have refused vaccines for no legitimate reason, full suite of services for you to, but you pay for it, pay increased premiums or a higher deductible or wait at the end of the line for service or like being seated at a restaurant next to the kitchen. I am tired of subsidizing people that don’t respect person responsibility….aren’t you?

same thing for the Flu?

[SCLaxAttack]

Amazing. Vaccination Zealots rule! I'll have to take responsibility for that phrase on here.

I'm referring to people on here who castigate, shame, belittle, from some imagined moral high ground, anyone who may have personal reasons or simply disagree with them re Covid vaccines. Vaccination Zealots have slapped a contemporary "scarlet letter" on the un-vaxxed.

Here's the thing...if the idea is to defeat the virus, why wouldn't these same people, who complain the most, not want to give anyone who tests positive, access to as many tools to defeat the virus as possible? Otherwise, perhaps their motives aren't so enlightened and certainly not logical or as ethical as they believe.

To say treatment should be withheld from the un-vaxxed is simply heinous. Doctors who have adopted this attitude have forgotten they took the Hippocratic Oath.

IMO, this attitude (including Biden and the administration) is the biggest obstacle to defeating the virus and hopefully regaining some sense of normalcy.

What’s missing from most of the discussions I read here and in other places, and I believe should be constantly harped on, continues to be that higher vaccination rates will significantly reduce the opportunity for Covid to mutate to variants that may ultimately completely beat both our current vaccines and therapeutics.

[a fan]

Sorry but I disagree. IT is absolutely a game changer. If it decreases the amount of individuals in the hospital then that changes the game

That's my point: where do you think these people are going to get these therapeutics, if not the hospital?

They have to know they have Covid (how do they find that out?). They have to believe in Covid. Then they have to arrive at wherever you think they're going to get these therapeutics within the correct time window. Someone has to track their progress. And again...these folks have already signaled that they either don't have access to a doctor....or do not trust said doctor.

Do you not see the problem here?

I highly doubt that we as a country will vaccinate ourselves out of this mess.

I agree. That's the entire problem.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Amazing. Vaccination Zealots rule! I'll have to take responsibility for that phrase on here.

I'm referring to people on here who castigate, shame, belittle, from some imagined moral high ground, anyone who may have personal reasons or simply disagree with them re Covid vaccines. Vaccination Zealots have slapped a contemporary "scarlet letter" on the un-vaxxed.

Here's the thing...if the idea is to defeat the virus, why wouldn't these same people, who complain the most, not want to give anyone who tests positive, access to as many tools to defeat the virus as possible? Otherwise, perhaps their motives aren't so enlightened and certainly not logical or as ethical as they believe.

To say treatment should be withheld from the un-vaxxed is simply heinous. Doctors who have adopted this attitude have forgotten they took the Hippocratic Oath.

IMO, this attitude (including Biden and the administration) is the biggest obstacle to defeating the virus and hopefully regaining some sense of normalcy.

If you test positive and have been vaccinated or have a legitimate medical reason for not being vaccinated, full suite of services for you and your insurance picks up the tab. If you test positive and have refused vaccines for no legitimate reason, full suite of services for you to, but you pay for it, pay increased premiums or a higher deductible or wait at the end of the line for service or like being seated at a restaurant next to the kitchen. I am tired of subsidizing people that don’t respect person responsibility….aren’t you?

same thing for the Flu?

I don’t have a problem with it. Sometimes a stick and a stick works best. Could tie it to resource allocation as a trigger.

[MDlaxfan76]

Amazing. Vaccination Zealots rule! I'll have to take responsibility for that phrase on here.

I'm referring to people on here who castigate, shame, belittle, from some imagined moral high ground, anyone who may have personal reasons or simply disagree with them re Covid vaccines. Vaccination Zealots have slapped a contemporary "scarlet letter" on the un-vaxxed.

Here's the thing...if the idea is to defeat the virus, why wouldn't these same people, who complain the most, not want to give anyone who tests positive, access to as many tools to defeat the virus as possible? Otherwise, perhaps their motives aren't so enlightened and certainly not logical or as ethical as they believe.

To say treatment should be withheld from the un-vaxxed is simply heinous. Doctors who have adopted this attitude have forgotten they took the Hippocratic Oath.

IMO, this attitude (including Biden and the administration) is the biggest obstacle to defeating the virus and hopefully regaining some sense of normalcy.

I'm not advocating 'withholding treatment", my proposal (which won't be considered) is to send them to a 'camp' hospital staffed with doctors and nurses who also refuse to be vaccinated, and have them pay for the service themselves (or through charity) or through a private insurance set-up for such folks, paid by the insured. There may well be docs and nurses and hospitals, fully vaxxed etc, who are willing to provide care as well...but not at the expense of the taxpayers or fellow insureds who are vaxxed and doing their share to reduce spread and hospitalizations.

But fellow taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for them.

[Bart]

Sorry but I disagree. IT is absolutely a game changer. If it decreases the amount of individuals in the hospital then that changes the game

That's my point: where do you think these people are going to get these therapeutics, if not the hospital?

They have to know they have Covid (how do they find that out?). They have to believe in Covid. Then they have to arrive at wherever you think they're going to get these therapeutics within the correct time window. Someone has to track their progress. And again...these folks have already signaled that they either don't have access to a doctor....or do not trust said doctor.

Do you not see the problem here?

I highly doubt that we as a country will vaccinate ourselves out of this mess.

I agree. That's the entire problem.

When will these individuals go see a Doctor? When they are sick. Then they will listen intently. I had this very conversation with my Dr the other day regarding the monoclonal treatment. Would not listen to the Dr until they are sick then it becomes real. Once it is real then the specter of the EUA goes away when they get the same thing with the monoclonal treatment. These individuals are already streaming to see medical professionals at the ER.

I will acknowledge the timing issue as a potential factor. As I said, I do not or have not read the ultimate stop date for any effectiveness.

I do not live in a real rural (kind of sometimes rural) area so access is not as much an issue but this nonsense is not coming just from people who do not have access to medical advice. I hear about it almost every evening at home.

So while I may agree with you in some respect. I absolutely think the anti viral is a game changer if it continues to perform as it did during the trials.

[jhu72]

Amazing. Vaccination Zealots rule! I'll have to take responsibility for that phrase on here.

I'm referring to people on here who castigate, shame, belittle, from some imagined moral high ground, anyone who may have personal reasons or simply disagree with them re Covid vaccines. Vaccination Zealots have slapped a contemporary "scarlet letter" on the un-vaxxed.

Here's the thing...if the idea is to defeat the virus, why wouldn't these same people, who complain the most, not want to give anyone who tests positive, access to as many tools to defeat the virus as possible? Otherwise, perhaps their motives aren't so enlightened and certainly not logical or as ethical as they believe.

To say treatment should be withheld from the un-vaxxed is simply heinous. Doctors who have adopted this attitude have forgotten they took the Hippocratic Oath.

IMO, this attitude (including Biden and the administration) is the biggest obstacle to defeating the virus and hopefully regaining some sense of normalcy.

What’s missing from most of the discussions I read here and in other places, and I believe should be constantly harped on, continues to be that higher vaccination rates will significantly reduce the opportunity for Covid to mutate to variants that may ultimately completely beat both our current vaccines and therapeutics.

... yep!! Not saying therapeutics don't have a place, but we have too many people that have NO GOOD REASON to not take the vaccination. Medicine is not "have it your way" with a happy meal. Therapeutics don't solve the problem.

[ggait]

IMO, this attitude (including Biden and the administration) is the biggest obstacle to defeating the virus and hopefully regaining some sense of normalcy.

Tech -- on this, you are 1000% wrong. The evidence is OVERWHELMING. The vax refusers are just going to refuse.

It doesn't matter if you give them more medical information. It doesn't matter if you treat them nice. It doesn't mater if you call them dumb fork MAGA mouth breathers (which is exactly what they are). They still refuse. Doesn't matter if they get Covid, they still refuse. Doesn't matter if people around them die, they still refuse. Doesn't matter if you give them lottery tickets or gift cards or scholarships -- they still refuse. They are unreachable and unpersuade-able and beyond facts.

We've been far too accommodating to the mouth breathers. Only one thing works -- forget the carrots and smack them with sticks. Take the shot or you are fired. Take the shot or pay $200 extra per month. Voila -- they all take the shot.

Our Gov. Polis has it right. At this point, it is your own darn fault if you get sick. There's plenty of life jackets to go around. But some dumb forks refuse to put them on as the boat sinks.

While we would never actually refuse to treat the dumb ass MAGA mouth breathers when they get sick, it is completely appropriate for the rest of us to call them out for being so stupid, so selfish and so forking hypocritical.

Wah wah wah -- I don't trust Fauci and doctors and being forced to be a lab rat. My body, my choice (unless pregnant), muh ruy-iots!!

Wait wait wait -- I'm sick now. Please give me a bed in the ICU and pump me up with every experimental EUA treatment available. Who cares if those cost like 10,000X more than the shot I've refused to take for a whole forking year.

The obvious and overwhelming facts are clear. At this point, it is all their forking fault.

But since they are, in fact, so forking deplorable, it probably does make sense to spend extra resources to design yellow life jackets (i.e. therapeutics) since the mouth breathers just won't wear the orange ones (which are cheaper and work better and in plentiful supply).