January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

[old salt]

All because you want to placate the American right. At this point? I don't really care anymore. Whatever serves those little R's, I'm on board. Anything to get your fellow R's from complaining for five straight minutes will be a relief.

All because I don't want to throw out thousands of service members who refuse to be treated like lab rats when they see the inconsistencies in mandates that are forced upon them, for political rather than practical reasons, while others evade mandates & keep their jobs, thanks to the courts or their unions.

If ALL the troops have to do it, no exceptions, so should every govt employee & govt contractor employee -- no exceptions.
It is being mandated for the entire military because it can be. This is what happens when you surrender your rights.

Nobody's more pro-vaxx than me. The military has a higher vax % than their civilian counterparts. DoD made it work without throwing anyone out. This mandate is being done for political rather than readiness reasons. Throw out thousands of service members & it will degrade readiness more than if we continue with positive incentives & education. A mandate was not necessary & will do more harm than good.

We know a lot more about covid now than when Capt Crozier jumped the chain of command. If he knew then what we know now about the effects of the disease & the danger to his crew, he probably would have acted differently. The TR's crew came through fine, following the process the chain of command had on the way.

https://www.inhofe.senate.gov/imo/media ... ndates.pdf

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-arm ... en-budget/

We can downsize and save on benefits if these guys don’t want to comply.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/vikrammitt ... ation/amp/

Paradigm shift (antiquated term).

https://themilitarywallet.com/join-mili ... ownsizing/

[seacoaster]

This ranks as one of the more ridiculous discussions on Fanlax.
Just sayin'.

No sh*t. And it really has nothing to do with the January 6 business, or even Old Salt's effort to arrange the deck chairs for the NG, Capitol Police and DOD on this Titanic.

[youthathletics]

This ranks as one of the more ridiculous discussions on Fanlax.
Just sayin'.

No sh*t. And it really has nothing to do with the January 6 business, or even Old Salt's effort to arrange the deck chairs for the NG, Capitol Police and DOD on this Titanic.

Happens every year, just around the time college football dies down and itching for lacrosse to start back up. Its not personal, just keeps the competitive juices flowing; you have to appreciate not giving up, no?

[seacoaster]

This ranks as one of the more ridiculous discussions on Fanlax.
Just sayin'.

No sh*t. And it really has nothing to do with the January 6 business, or even Old Salt's effort to arrange the deck chairs for the NG, Capitol Police and DOD on this Titanic.

Happens every year, just around the time college football dies down and itching for lacrosse to start back up. Its not personal, just keeps the competitive juices flowing; you have to appreciate not giving up, no?

What I "appreciate" -- in the sense of understanding -- is, in fact, that the right in this country has "given up" on democracy in favor of having their team, and only their team win. You guys are just gonna give it all away.

[ggait]

So salty objects to using the USA military as “lab rats” for the Covid vax.

Um…fully approved by the fda for many months now. Nine BILLION vax shots administered worldwide already.

So who thinks Salty’s comment is the single most dumb forking thing ever posted on Laxpower (excluding junk posted by Peter)?

Way to ring out the old year Salty. What the fork is wrong with you?

[DMac]

I don't. I refused to get the swine flu shot because I didn't want to be a lab rat.
According to you guys I should have been dishonorably discharged.
Oh, and what some of you think about NG and reservists is laughable.
Ever serve with any of them?

[tech37]

So salty objects to using the USA military as “lab rats” for the Covid vax.

Um…fully approved by the fda for many months now. Nine BILLION vax shots administered worldwide already.

So who thinks Salty’s comment is the single most dumb forking thing ever posted on Laxpower (excluding junk posted by Peter)?

Way to ring out the old year Salty. What the fork is wrong with you?

There are some obnoxious, hateful mother'fers on here but you get top billing ggait.

[a fan]

All because you want to placate the American right. At this point? I don't really care anymore. Whatever serves those little R's, I'm on board. Anything to get your fellow R's from complaining for five straight minutes will be a relief.

All because I don't want to throw out thousands of service members who refuse to be treated like lab rats when they see the inconsistencies in mandates that are forced upon them, for political rather than practical reasons, while others evade mandates & keep their jobs, thanks to the courts or their unions.

If ALL the troops have to do it, no exceptions, so should every govt employee & govt contractor employee -- no exceptions.
It is being mandated for the entire military because it can be. This is what happens when you surrender your rights.

Nobody's more pro-vaxx than me. The military has a higher vax % than their civilian counterparts. DoD made it work without throwing anyone out. This mandate is being done for political rather than readiness reasons. Throw out thousands of service members & it will degrade readiness more than if we continue with positive incentives & education. A mandate was not necessary & will do more harm than good.

We know a lot more about covid now than when Capt Crozier jumped the chain of command. If he knew then what we know now about the effects of the disease & the danger to his crew, he probably would have acted differently. The TR's crew came through fine, following the process the chain of command had on the way.

https://www.inhofe.senate.gov/imo/media ... ndates.pdf

Great. So lets follow your and Inhofe's plan, and make vaccinations optional.

What do you do in ten years, when the vaxx rate hits the US median for 18-24 year olds, and almost half of our troops are unvaccinated?

[DMac]

That won't happen, a fan, in ten years with a history the troops will have a record to go on and won't consider themselves lab rats.

[CU88]

https://www.newsweek.com/2021/12/31/mil ... 60953.html

[a fan]

That won't happen, a fan, in ten years with a history the troops will have a record to go on and won't consider themselves lab rats.

I'd understand position if, for example, the US government rolled out the vaccine by forcing troops to take the vaccine before anyone else. And if troops were the ONLY people taking the vaccine.

But that's not what happened. Every former and current President has been vaccinated, for example. A full year ago. Biden took his in Dec of 2020. And as GGait points out, we're at 8 Billion and counting taking it.

But to my questions to OS: what's your military plan for the next virus if 42% of troops (the current unvaxxed between 18-24 yo in the US) won't take the same vaccine that a 7 year old girl takes, with no ill effects?

[youthathletics]

This ranks as one of the more ridiculous discussions on Fanlax.
Just sayin'.

No sh*t. And it really has nothing to do with the January 6 business, or even Old Salt's effort to arrange the deck chairs for the NG, Capitol Police and DOD on this Titanic.

Happens every year, just around the time college football dies down and itching for lacrosse to start back up. Its not personal, just keeps the competitive juices flowing; you have to appreciate not giving up, no?

What I "appreciate" -- in the sense of understanding -- is, in fact, that the right in this country has "given up" on democracy in favor of having their team, and only their team win. You guys are just gonna give it all away.

Cmon man...Biden and PSaki et al, are doing a fine job throwing Manchin under the bus, keeping democracy alive for us. The "statesman' is revealing how he gets things done....with an iron fist and public shaming. He's no better than Trump. Keep drinking the blue kool-aide, I prefer to mix the red and blue....life is simpler when you can look both ways.

[DMac]

That won't happen, a fan, in ten years with a history the troops will have a record to go on and won't consider themselves lab rats.

I'd understand position if, for example, the US government rolled out the vaccine by forcing troops to take the vaccine before anyone else. And if troops were the ONLY people taking the vaccine.

But that's not what happened. Every former and current President has been vaccinated, for example. A full year ago. Biden took his in Dec of 2020. And as GGait points out, we're at 8 Billion and counting taking it.

But to my questions to OS: what's your military plan for the next virus if 42% of troops (the current unvaxxed between 18-24 yo in the US) won't take the same vaccine that a 7 year old girl takes, with no ill effects?

In the grand scheme of things this is relatively new and many still have questions about it all.
While you do indeed give up many rights and learn to follow orders in the military, speaking
for myself I never felt as if I gave up the right to not be injected with something that was pretty
much brand new and I had questions about. I don't think I was wrong in my decision, and I don't
have any trouble understanding why many are still leery, military or not.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2020 ... ir-of-1976

[Typical Lax Dad]

That won't happen, a fan, in ten years with a history the troops will have a record to go on and won't consider themselves lab rats.

I'd understand position if, for example, the US government rolled out the vaccine by forcing troops to take the vaccine before anyone else. And if troops were the ONLY people taking the vaccine.

But that's not what happened. Every former and current President has been vaccinated, for example. A full year ago. Biden took his in Dec of 2020. And as GGait points out, we're at 8 Billion and counting taking it.

But to my questions to OS: what's your military plan for the next virus if 42% of troops (the current unvaxxed between 18-24 yo in the US) won't take the same vaccine that a 7 year old girl takes, with no ill effects?

In the grand scheme of things this is relatively new and many still have questions about it all.
While you do indeed give up many rights and learn to follow orders in the military, speaking
for myself I never felt as if I gave up the right to not be injected with something that was pretty
much brand new and I had questions about. I don't think I was wrong in my decision, and I don't
have any trouble understanding why many are still leery, military or not.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2020 ... ir-of-1976

I am convinced that had COVID-19 hit in a non election cycle, the virus response would have been less political.

[kramerica.inc]

That won't happen, a fan, in ten years with a history the troops will have a record to go on and won't consider themselves lab rats.

I'd understand position if, for example, the US government rolled out the vaccine by forcing troops to take the vaccine before anyone else. And if troops were the ONLY people taking the vaccine.

But that's not what happened. Every former and current President has been vaccinated, for example. A full year ago. Biden took his in Dec of 2020. And as GGait points out, we're at 8 Billion and counting taking it.

But to my questions to OS: what's your military plan for the next virus if 42% of troops (the current unvaxxed between 18-24 yo in the US) won't take the same vaccine that a 7 year old girl takes, with no ill effects?

"No ill effects." Many at my workplace are asking, "What are the potential long-term effects of that vaccine on that 7 year old girl?" I got mine for personal reasons. It's a personal decision. I say either way, "to each their own." I have zero care or sympathy for the unvaxxed. They haven't harmed me or directly effected my family. And we have been recently gone through the medical system with an ongoing health issue.

https://www.newsweek.com/2021/12/31/mil ... 60953.html

As for Jan 6, it was scary, yes. The history and life of a nation can be scary. All of these events are part of history. What comes next we can only guess. Are we at the precipice of the nation falling or a major change? Was it just a blip? Unless you know how to influence the nation, it is what it is.

[a fan]

"No ill effects." Many at my workplace are asking, "What are the potential long-term effects of that vaccine on that 7 year old girl?"

Ask them what the side effects are for the MMR vaccine. Or the vaccine for polio.

And when they can't answer those two questions, then you realize their question about ONLY the Covid vaccine is entirely political---or if you prefer, shallow and topical. They're 'woke' on this vaccine, and this vaccine only.

I got mine for personal reasons. It's a personal decision. I say either way, "to each their own." I have zero care or sympathy for the unvaxxed. They haven't harmed me or directly effected my family.

Oh, yes they have. The bill hasn't arrived yet, though, because Biden is bailing them out, and making you and your family pay for their health care choices. Those ICU's and hospital beds ain't cheap. And right now? The antivaxxers are staying there on YOUR dime, Kram.

But I'll remind you of this point when not only insurance premiums go up...but when you complain about inflation from all the borrowed billions we're still spending on Covid because we're not at that 93%+ vaccinated rate.

[Typical Lax Dad]

That won't happen, a fan, in ten years with a history the troops will have a record to go on and won't consider themselves lab rats.

I'd understand position if, for example, the US government rolled out the vaccine by forcing troops to take the vaccine before anyone else. And if troops were the ONLY people taking the vaccine.

But that's not what happened. Every former and current President has been vaccinated, for example. A full year ago. Biden took his in Dec of 2020. And as GGait points out, we're at 8 Billion and counting taking it.

But to my questions to OS: what's your military plan for the next virus if 42% of troops (the current unvaxxed between 18-24 yo in the US) won't take the same vaccine that a 7 year old girl takes, with no ill effects?

"No ill effects." Many at my workplace are asking, "What are the potential long-term effects of that vaccine on that 7 year old girl?" I got mine for personal reasons. It's a personal decision. I say either way, "to each their own." I have zero care or sympathy for the unvaxxed. They haven't harmed me or directly effected my family. And we have been recently gone through the medical system with an ongoing health issue.

https://www.newsweek.com/2021/12/31/mil ... 60953.html

As for Jan 6, it was scary, yes. The history and life of a nation can be scary. All of these events are part of history. What comes next we can only guess. Are we at the precipice of the nation falling or a major change? Was it just a blip? Unless you know how to influence the nation, it is what it is.

Fall of the American Empire.

[seacoaster]

That won't happen, a fan, in ten years with a history the troops will have a record to go on and won't consider themselves lab rats.

I'd understand position if, for example, the US government rolled out the vaccine by forcing troops to take the vaccine before anyone else. And if troops were the ONLY people taking the vaccine.

But that's not what happened. Every former and current President has been vaccinated, for example. A full year ago. Biden took his in Dec of 2020. And as GGait points out, we're at 8 Billion and counting taking it.

But to my questions to OS: what's your military plan for the next virus if 42% of troops (the current unvaxxed between 18-24 yo in the US) won't take the same vaccine that a 7 year old girl takes, with no ill effects?

"No ill effects." Many at my workplace are asking, "What are the potential long-term effects of that vaccine on that 7 year old girl?" I got mine for personal reasons. It's a personal decision. I say either way, "to each their own." I have zero care or sympathy for the unvaxxed. They haven't harmed me or directly effected my family. And we have been recently gone through the medical system with an ongoing health issue.

https://www.newsweek.com/2021/12/31/mil ... 60953.html

As for Jan 6, it was scary, yes. The history and life of a nation can be scary. All of these events are part of history. What comes next we can only guess. Are we at the precipice of the nation falling or a major change? Was it just a blip? Unless you know how to influence the nation, it is what it is.

January 6: “…it is what it is.” You should probably be a speechwriter for democracy.

[cradleandshoot]

Um.

Guys get run out of the military all the time for not following the rules. That’s how the military works.

Since when do we let the soldiers pick and choose between which rules they feel like following (the 17 other required vaccines) and the ones they don’t (just one vaccine with no valid reason).

Buh bye mouth breathers. Thanks for your service, but if you value maga bull shirt political views more than your duty and following orders, you are no longer fit to serve.

Not if your RA. Uncle Sam invested a lot of money training you. You ever heard of " Charlie's chicken farm" ?
You should stick to the law counselor. When it comes to how our military operates you do not know your ass from a hole in the ground.

https://usarmybasic.com/about-the-army/army-shots?amp

https://www.thebalancecareers.com/milit ... ns-4058318

Dishonorable discharge the guys that refuse orders.

They should be let go with a general discharge. The problem is the NG will find themselves short on soldiers especially those with more MOS. Nobody wins in this scenario.

yep and next time we all need them, they'll be screwed. Look no further than the current policing situation where the the fed, in all their infinite wisdom are sending in help for local police, that never really needed it prior to 2021

I thought strict adherence to command orders was kind of a big thing in the armed services. I think ggait has it pretty much right on the nose. Again.

Or this could be a prime example of biting off your nose to spite your face. If a scenario arises where you need NG combat engineers to build a bridge and there ain't enough engineers to complete the job in time.. who wins then? It is a conundrum at best. The solution creates new and bigger problems. So when they need the help of NG soldiers to fight wildfires and the numbers are not there to do the job?? Is the family that watches their house burn to the ground then going to care about who was or wasn't vaccinated? Maybe the final outcome will be that increasing numbers of citizen/soldiers will not be willing to step up and serve?