January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

[MDlaxfan76]

If you're going to force all service members to get vaxxed, then round up all their fellow un-vaxxed citizens & force them to get vaxxed.

What the F are you talking about? YOU had to get vaccinations to do your job around the world, OS. Did you whine and complain about it? Did you ask them to google the side effects for you so that you could "do your own research"? F no.

My five year old HAD to get SEVERAL vaccines to attend school. Are you telling me that our troops and military leaders are now so scared and weak.... that my five year old is braver than they are? Really?

Your one-size-fits all logic does not work here either.

We were vaccinated for protection against infectious diseases peculiar to the area to which we were deploying (like malaria & yellow fever), not against a universal pandemic which to us, as young, healthy deploy-able human specimens, would be no more serious than a cold or flu.

Covid is no longer a threat to the young & the healthy. If service members had covid risk factors, they'd already be medically disqualified from serving.

Your toddler is vaxxed against diseases like measels which can be nearly eliminated, as we were vaxxed against polio.

Covid has become endemic, like the flu or the common cold. Covid boosters will become like annual flu shots, possibly combined with them.

The military is like any other employer. It's hard to find enough people willing to serve who are qualified, meet the physical standards & are willing to surrender their rights, as it is. Symbolic mandates like this, will force (or drive) more people out of the service than the virus would take. Most troops will take the shot if ordered, even more if combined with an extra day of weekend liberty.

This is a stupid fight to pick. Biden should focus on getting his Amtrak friends vaxxed.

So sad to see you post this, over many years I learned a lot from your postings; this is just lame.

Lame why? Because you don't like hearing how other people think?
Dealing with the vaccine mandate at my work, and a large number of veterans (~60% at my company), this is the way a significant chunk of people feel. Remember, Biden won 51% to 47%. There are tons of people who generally don't agree with Biden's decisions.

Because "Biden"...it's a partisan, not rational reaction.

97+% of the military followed orders...

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronaviru ... vaccinated

[kramerica.inc]

As aFan likes to point out- it's the same for the other side too.
Because "Trump" .... it's a partisan, not rational reaction.
That negates pretty much everything said on these boards.

My point is- wherever the reasoning came from (even if it's flawed) it's still a reality in the country we live in.

[CU88]

I thought that joining the US military meant you had to follow simple basic orders. Apparently not any more; take the paycheck and do what you what you want, when you want.


I seem to recall OS railing against Capt. Brett Crozier for taking a stand and not following orders.

[kramerica.inc]

I thought that joining the US military meant you had to follow simple basic orders. Apparently not any more; take the paycheck and do what you what you want, when you want.


I seem to recall OS railing against Capt. Brett Crozier for taking a stand and not following orders.

You're truly surprised? Why do they have to follow basic orders? You can do whatever you feel these days. "Live your best life." No one can tell you what your reality is. Don't be deterred by what others foist upon you. This mindset of the importance of me over we has bled over into every segment of society. Of course we are seeing it pop up everywhere.

[youthathletics]

I thought that joining the US military meant you had to follow simple basic orders. Apparently not any more; take the paycheck and do what you what you want, when you want.


I seem to recall OS railing against Capt. Brett Crozier for taking a stand and not following orders.

You're truly surprised? Why do they have to follow basic orders? You can do whatever you feel these days. "Live your best life." No one can tell you what your reality is. Don't be deterred by what others foist upon you. This mindset of the importance of me over we has bled over into every segment of society. Of course we are seeing it pop up everywhere.

So very true....and when it is right in the face of those lobbying for it, they avoid acknowledging it and double down. I

[cradleandshoot]

Um.

Guys get run out of the military all the time for not following the rules. That’s how the military works.

Since when do we let the soldiers pick and choose between which rules they feel like following (the 17 other required vaccines) and the ones they don’t (just one vaccine with no valid reason).

Buh bye mouth breathers. Thanks for your service, but if you value maga bull shirt political views more than your duty and following orders, you are no longer fit to serve.

Not if your RA. Uncle Sam invested a lot of money training you. You ever heard of " Charlie's chicken farm" ?
You should stick to the law counselor. When it comes to how our military operates you do not know your ass from a hole in the ground.

https://usarmybasic.com/about-the-army/army-shots?amp

https://www.thebalancecareers.com/milit ... ns-4058318

Dishonorable discharge the guys that refuse orders.

They should be let go with a general discharge. The problem is the NG will find themselves short on soldiers especially those with more MOS. Nobody wins in this scenario.

[youthathletics]

Um.

Guys get run out of the military all the time for not following the rules. That’s how the military works.

Since when do we let the soldiers pick and choose between which rules they feel like following (the 17 other required vaccines) and the ones they don’t (just one vaccine with no valid reason).

Buh bye mouth breathers. Thanks for your service, but if you value maga bull shirt political views more than your duty and following orders, you are no longer fit to serve.

Not if your RA. Uncle Sam invested a lot of money training you. You ever heard of " Charlie's chicken farm" ?
You should stick to the law counselor. When it comes to how our military operates you do not know your ass from a hole in the ground.

https://usarmybasic.com/about-the-army/army-shots?amp

https://www.thebalancecareers.com/milit ... ns-4058318

Dishonorable discharge the guys that refuse orders.

They should be let go with a general discharge. The problem is the NG will find themselves short on soldiers especially those with more MOS. Nobody wins in this scenario.

yep and next time we all need them, they'll be screwed. Look no further than the current policing situation where the the fed, in all their infinite wisdom are sending in help for local police, that never really needed it prior to 2021

[seacoaster]

Um.

Guys get run out of the military all the time for not following the rules. That’s how the military works.

Since when do we let the soldiers pick and choose between which rules they feel like following (the 17 other required vaccines) and the ones they don’t (just one vaccine with no valid reason).

Buh bye mouth breathers. Thanks for your service, but if you value maga bull shirt political views more than your duty and following orders, you are no longer fit to serve.

Not if your RA. Uncle Sam invested a lot of money training you. You ever heard of " Charlie's chicken farm" ?
You should stick to the law counselor. When it comes to how our military operates you do not know your ass from a hole in the ground.

https://usarmybasic.com/about-the-army/army-shots?amp

https://www.thebalancecareers.com/milit ... ns-4058318

Dishonorable discharge the guys that refuse orders.

They should be let go with a general discharge. The problem is the NG will find themselves short on soldiers especially those with more MOS. Nobody wins in this scenario.

yep and next time we all need them, they'll be screwed. Look no further than the current policing situation where the the fed, in all their infinite wisdom are sending in help for local police, that never really needed it prior to 2021

I thought strict adherence to command orders was kind of a big thing in the armed services. I think ggait has it pretty much right on the nose. Again.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Um.

Guys get run out of the military all the time for not following the rules. That’s how the military works.

Since when do we let the soldiers pick and choose between which rules they feel like following (the 17 other required vaccines) and the ones they don’t (just one vaccine with no valid reason).

Buh bye mouth breathers. Thanks for your service, but if you value maga bull shirt political views more than your duty and following orders, you are no longer fit to serve.

Not if your RA. Uncle Sam invested a lot of money training you. You ever heard of " Charlie's chicken farm" ?
You should stick to the law counselor. When it comes to how our military operates you do not know your ass from a hole in the ground.

https://usarmybasic.com/about-the-army/army-shots?amp

https://www.thebalancecareers.com/milit ... ns-4058318

Dishonorable discharge the guys that refuse orders.

They should be let go with a general discharge. The problem is the NG will find themselves short on soldiers especially those with more MOS. Nobody wins in this scenario.

yep and next time we all need them, they'll be screwed. Look no further than the current policing situation where the the fed, in all their infinite wisdom are sending in help for local police, that never really needed it prior to 2021

I thought strict adherence to command orders was kind of a big thing in the armed services. I think ggait has it pretty much right on the nose. Again.

Nope. We are desperate for bodies so soldiers no longer have to obey orders they don’t like. Get them off my dime….seems to be 2% of them or so.

[a fan]

If you're going to force all service members to get vaxxed, then round up all their fellow un-vaxxed citizens & force them to get vaxxed.

What the F are you talking about? YOU had to get vaccinations to do your job around the world, OS. Did you whine and complain about it? Did you ask them to google the side effects for you so that you could "do your own research"? F no.

My five year old HAD to get SEVERAL vaccines to attend school. Are you telling me that our troops and military leaders are now so scared and weak.... that my five year old is braver than they are? Really?

Your one-size-fits all logic does not work here either.

On a partisan Republican? I agree. Logic doesn't work. Clearly. US Troops are dying unnecessarily because of right wing propaganda, OS.

Remember when everyone went full on bonkers over...what was it.....13 KIA in the botched Afghanistan withdrawal? I guess I was fooled into thinking that we should avoid unnecessary military deaths like that, but I guess not.

Because we now have 52 KIA from Covid, OS....all unvaxxed, according to the military. Last I checked, 52 is more than 13. So should we avoid getting these men and women killed for no reason, or not?

What's next for your military suggestions? Get rid of the dumb ol' helmets, because hey, the odds of taking a round to the head are the same as dying from the common cold.....or some other dumb*ss metaphor that makes zero sense?

This is the height of absurdity, and you know it. Stop trolling.

* https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pent ... wo-months/

So let's throw several thousand out of the service because they refuse to get vaxxed. The numbers don't work in your favor.

Correction: they're 1000% fine with getting vaccines. All except (3) Covid Vaccines, OS. And what does that tell you?

It tells you these people are political nutjobs that are easily swayed by propaganda, with a IQ below room temperature. Why in heaven's name would we want to train them, and show them how to kill people? Pass. I don't want them in our military.


And what happens with the next virus, OS? You've just told our troops that vaccines are optional. Which will take our vaxx rate from 97%, down to the US average for that age group---what, like 58% vaxxed? Gee, OS, I just can't see any problems with your "plan".

All because you want to placate the American right. At this point? I don't really care anymore. Whatever serves those little R's, I'm on board. Anything to get your fellow R's from complaining for five straight minutes will be a relief.

[a fan]

I thought that joining the US military meant you had to follow simple basic orders. Apparently not any more; take the paycheck and do what you what you want, when you want.


I seem to recall OS railing against Capt. Brett Crozier for taking a stand and not following orders.

You're truly surprised? Why do they have to follow basic orders? You can do whatever you feel these days. "Live your best life." No one can tell you what your reality is. Don't be deterred by what others foist upon you. This mindset of the importance of me over we has bled over into every segment of society. Of course we are seeing it pop up everywhere.

So very true....and when it is right in the face of those lobbying for it, they avoid acknowledging it and double down. I

So which is it that you two believe in? Do you believe in having our military following orders, or not?

You believe in following orders. So does OS. Stop pretending that you don't to try and "win" an argument.

The ONLY reason you guys are pretending to be on board with this nonsense is that vaccine mandates are the Republican Soup of the Day. In any other situation, you'd tell these soldiers to follow orders, or get discharged. Stop trolling.

[Kismet]

I thought that joining the US military meant you had to follow simple basic orders. Apparently not any more; take the paycheck and do what you what you want, when you want.


I seem to recall OS railing against Capt. Brett Crozier for taking a stand and not following orders.

You're truly surprised? Why do they have to follow basic orders? You can do whatever you feel these days. "Live your best life." No one can tell you what your reality is. Don't be deterred by what others foist upon you. This mindset of the importance of me over we has bled over into every segment of society. Of course we are seeing it pop up everywhere.

So very true....and when it is right in the face of those lobbying for it, they avoid acknowledging it and double down. I

So which is it that you two believe in? Do you believe in having our military following orders, or not?

You believe in following orders. So does OS. Stop pretending that you don't to try and "win" an argument.

The ONLY reason you guys are pretending to be on board with this nonsense is that vaccine mandates are the Republican Soup of the Day. In any other situation, you'd tell these soldiers to follow orders, or get discharged. Stop trolling.

Yep. When the Captain of the USS Roosevelt didn't follow the chain of command and independently decided what was best for his crew OS threw him immediately under the bus, but now its OK for officers and enlisted ranks to make orders from above optional and ignore those orders you don't agree with. Got it.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I thought that joining the US military meant you had to follow simple basic orders. Apparently not any more; take the paycheck and do what you what you want, when you want.


I seem to recall OS railing against Capt. Brett Crozier for taking a stand and not following orders.

You're truly surprised? Why do they have to follow basic orders? You can do whatever you feel these days. "Live your best life." No one can tell you what your reality is. Don't be deterred by what others foist upon you. This mindset of the importance of me over we has bled over into every segment of society. Of course we are seeing it pop up everywhere.

So very true....and when it is right in the face of those lobbying for it, they avoid acknowledging it and double down. I

So which is it that you two believe in? Do you believe in having our military following orders, or not?

You believe in following orders. So does OS. Stop pretending that you don't to try and "win" an argument.

The ONLY reason you guys are pretending to be on board with this nonsense is that vaccine mandates are the Republican Soup of the Day. In any other situation, you'd tell these soldiers to follow orders, or get discharged. Stop trolling.

Yep. When the Captain of the USS Roosevelt didn't follow the chain of command and independently decided what was best for his crew OS threw him immediately under the bus, but now its OK for officers and enlisted ranks to make orders from above optional and ignore those orders you don't agree with. Got it.

Those folks are hard to replace now. We are scraping the barrel to find people.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspec ... port-shows

[ggait]

I thought strict adherence to command orders was kind of a big thing in the armed services.

Nope. We are desperate for bodies so soldiers no longer have to obey orders they don’t like.

I'd sign up for service tomorrow, so long as I didn't have to get up early, make my bunk every day, shine my shoes, show up on time for things, and wear my hair as long as I liked.

That should be OK, right, because those are my sincerely and deeply held personal beliefs?

And in my day job, I sincerely and deeply believe I already know everything I need to know. So I have a right to keep my law license if I just blow off the mandatory CLE requirements.

I mean the crazy stupid shirt people post on here is ridiculous. Talk about derangement syndrome.

[dislaxxic]

"HEY! Just let me be free to be a numbnut!" Who does THAT harm??

umm...

..

[PizzaSnake]

This is nothing new. Apparently Biden, & those advising him, learned nothing from the anthrax vaccination fiasco.
How many healthy young service members, with acquired immunity, perfectly able to survive if infected,
will be needlessly run out of the service ?
It's as if we've learned nothing about Covid in the past 2 years.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pent ... igh-price/

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-arm ... -failures/

https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/opinio ... -his-case/

What I’m learning is that some people believe orders are optional in the military. That doesn't jibe with my understanding. How about yours, OS?

[DMac]

This ranks as one of the more ridiculous discussions on Fanlax.
Just sayin'.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-ne ... ontext=amp

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pent ... ines-pass/

[old salt]

All because you want to placate the American right. At this point? I don't really care anymore. Whatever serves those little R's, I'm on board. Anything to get your fellow R's from complaining for five straight minutes will be a relief.

All because I don't want to throw out thousands of service members who refuse to be treated like lab rats when they see the inconsistencies in mandates that are forced upon them, for political rather than practical reasons, while others evade mandates & keep their jobs, thanks to the courts or their unions.

If ALL the troops have to do it, no exceptions, so should every govt employee & govt contractor employee -- no exceptions.
It is being mandated for the entire military because it can be. This is what happens when you surrender your rights.

Nobody's more pro-vaxx than me. The military has a higher vax % than their civilian counterparts. DoD made it work without throwing anyone out. This mandate is being done for political rather than readiness reasons. Throw out thousands of service members & it will degrade readiness more than if we continue with positive incentives & education.

We know a lot more about covid now than when Capt Crozier jumped the chain of command. If he knew then what we know now about the effects of the disease & the danger to his crew, he probably would have acted differently. The TR's crew came through fine, following the process the chain of command had on the way.

[Typical Lax Dad]

All because you want to placate the American right. At this point? I don't really care anymore. Whatever serves those little R's, I'm on board. Anything to get your fellow R's from complaining for five straight minutes will be a relief.

All because I don't want to throw out thousands of service members who refuse to be treated like lab rats when they see the inconsistencies in mandates that are forced upon them, for political rather than practical reasons, while others evade mandates & keep their jobs, thanks to the courts or their unions.

If ALL the troops have to do it, no exceptions, so should every govt employee & govt contractor employee -- no exceptions.
It is being mandated for the entire military because it can be. This is what happens when you surrender your rights.

Nobody's more pro-vaxx than me. The military has a higher vax % than their civilian counterparts. DoD made it work without throwing anyone out. This mandate is being done for political rather than readiness reasons. Throw out thousands of service members & it will degrade readiness more than if we continue with positive incentives & education.

We know a lot more about covid now than when Capt Crozier jumped the chain of command. If he knew then what we know now about the effects of the disease & the danger to his crew, he probably would have acted differently. The TR's crew came through fine, following the process the chain of command had on the way.

We are tacking towards more isolationism. We can downsize. NATO can pick up the slack.