January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

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dislaxxic
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by dislaxxic »

Mitch McConnell, on the Senate floor, January 13, 2021...and i QUOTE:
January 6th was a disgrace. American citizens attacked their own government. They used terrorism to try to stop a specific piece of domestic business they did not like. Fellow Americans beat and bloodied our own police. They stormed the center floor. They tried to hunt down the Speaker of the House. They built a gallows and chanted about murdering the vice president. They did this because they’d been fed wild falsehoods by the most powerful man on earth because he was angry. He lost an election. Former President Trump’s actions preceded the riot are a disgraceful dereliction of duty. The House accused the former president of quote “Incitement”. That is a specific term from the criminal law. Let me just put that aside for a moment and reiterate something I said weeks ago. There’s no question, none, that President Trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day. No question about it.

The people who stormed this building believed they were acting on the wishes and instructions of their president and having that belief was a foreseeable consequence of the growing crescendo of false statements, conspiracy theories, and reckless hyperbole, which the defeated president kept shouting into the largest megaphone on planet Earth. The issue is not only the president's intemperate language on January 6th. It is not just his endorsement of remarks in which an associate urged quote “Trial by combat”. It was also the entire manufactured atmosphere of looming catastrophe. The increasingly wild myths about a reverse landslide election that was somehow being stolen. Some secret coup by our now president.

Now I defended the president’s right to bring any complaints to our legal system. The legal system spoke, the electoral college spoke. As I stood up and said, clearly at that time, the election was settled. It was over, but that just really opened a new chapter of even wilder and more unfounded claims. The leader of the free world cannot spend weeks thundering that shadowy forces are stealing our country and then feign surprise when people believe him and do reckless things. I said many politicians sometimes make overheated comments or use metaphors. We saw that. That unhinged listeners might take literally, but that was different. That’s different from what we saw. This was an intensifying crescendo of conspiracy theories orchestrated by an outgoing president who seemed determined to either overturn the voter’s decision or else torch our institutions on the way out. The unconscionable behavior did not end when the violence actually began.

Whatever our ex president claims he thought might happen that day, whatever right reaction he’s says he meant to produce by that afternoon we know he was watching the same live television as the rest of us. A mob was assaulting the Capitol in his name, these criminals who are carrying his banners, hanging his flags and screaming their loyalty to him. It was obvious that only President Trump could end this. He was the only one who could. Former aides publicly begged him to do so. Loyal allies frantically called the administration. The president did not act swiftly. He did not do his job. He didn’t take steps so federal law could be faithfully executed and order restored. No, instead, according to public reports, he watched television happily as the chaos unfolded. He kept pressing his scheme to overturn the election. Now, even after it was clear to any reasonable observer that Vice President Pence was in serious danger. Even as the mob carrying Trump banners was beating cops and breaching perimeters their president sent a further tweet, attacking his own vice president.

Now predictably and foreseeably under the circumstances, members of the mob seemed to interpret this as a further inspiration to lawlessness and violence, not surprisingly. Later, even when the president did halfheartedly began calling for peace he didn’t call right away for the riot to end. He did not tell the mob to depart until even later. And even then with police officers bleeding and broken glass covering Capitol floors, he kept repeating election lies and praising the criminals. In recent weeks, our ex-president’s associates have tried to use the 74 million Americans who voted to reelect him as a kind of human shield against criticism. Using the 74 million who voted for him as kind of a human seal shield against criticism. Anyone who decries his awful behavior is accused of insulting millions of voters. That’s an absurd deflection. 74 million Americans did not invade the Capitol, hundreds of rioters did. 74 million Americans did not engineer the campaign of disinformation and rage that provoked it. One person did, just one.
The January 6 Panel needs to get off its keister and SUBPOENA TRUMP!

..
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dislaxxic
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by dislaxxic »

FINALLY, EVERYONE IS TALKING ABOUT TRUMP’S OBSTRUCTION ON JANUARY 6
...for the moment, it seems that all three branches of government — prosecutors charging obstruction, judges affirming the viability of the application, and senior members of Congress invoking it as part of the January 6 investigation — agree that the events of the day may amount to obstruction.

Back when I begged TV lawyers to start focusing on this application, I laid out the things that Trump had or may have done, that might be proof of obstruction.

- Agreeing (and ordering subordinates) to plan and participate in an effort to obstruct the vote certification
- Encouraging the Proud Boys to believe they are his army
- Personally sowing the Big Lie about voter fraud to lead supporters to believe Trump has been robbed of his rightful election win
- Asking subordinates and Republican politicians to lie about the vote to encourage supporters to feel they were robbed
- Encouraging surrogates and campaign staffers to fund buses to make travel to DC easier
- Using the January 6 rally to encourage as many people as possible to come to DC
- Applauding violence in advance of January 6 and tacitly encouraging it on the day
- Recruiting members of Congress to raise challenges to the vote count
-Asking members of Congress to delay evacuation even as the rioters entered the building, heightening the chance of direct physical threat (and likely contributing to Ashli Babbitt’s death)
-Asking Mike Pence to do something unconstitutional, then targeting him after he refused, virtually ensuring he would be personally threatened
- Possibly muddling the line of command on which civilian agency would coordinate response, ensuring there would be none
- Possibly taking steps to delay any Guard response at the Capitol
- Possibly ignoring immediate requests from help from leaders of Congress

The January 6 Committee has already collected evidence demonstrating many of these issues, for example, the efforts to sow the Big Lie, including coordination with Congress, reveling in the collecting mobs, directing Guard deployment in ways that would support the insurrection, the unbelievable pressure on Mike Pence to violate his oath to the Constitution. In the interim four months, the press and Committee have identified other potential means of obstruction, such as ordering Alex Jones to bring his mob to the Capitol.

This is not a guarantee that Trump will be prosecuted. But all three branches of government now agree on the framework with which he might be held accountable.
Lock Him Up.

..
"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog." - Calvin, to Hobbes
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by kramerica.inc »

youthathletics wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:02 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 12:57 pm From the text on Jan 7, it's not clear that they were "sorry" that the insurrection had happened, rather they were "sorry" that they couldn't overturn the election results. There was no cheating, nor any legal basis at that point for any further challenge...the attack had occurred because they'd encouraged the Big Lie, and moreover had actually continued to try to overturn the election even after all legal avenues had been thoroughly exhausted.
Thank you. That was my point in asking....that life existed prior to January 6 and they exhausted everything. Meaning the text may very well have been taken out of context.

I say fry em'. Maybe that'll get rid of the fringe.
Agree, but what's the penalty?

Up to 6 mos (house arrest or minimum security) and $1k for criminal contempt of congress?

Seems like a speeding ticket. Seems easier to pay the fine than fight it in court.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by Kismet »

kramerica.inc wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 3:16 pm
youthathletics wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:02 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 12:57 pm From the text on Jan 7, it's not clear that they were "sorry" that the insurrection had happened, rather they were "sorry" that they couldn't overturn the election results. There was no cheating, nor any legal basis at that point for any further challenge...the attack had occurred because they'd encouraged the Big Lie, and moreover had actually continued to try to overturn the election even after all legal avenues had been thoroughly exhausted.
Thank you. That was my point in asking....that life existed prior to January 6 and they exhausted everything. Meaning the text may very well have been taken out of context.

I say fry em'. Maybe that'll get rid of the fringe.
Agree, but what's the penalty?

Up to 6 mos (house arrest or minimum security) and $1k for criminal contempt of congress?

Seems like a speeding ticket. Seems easier to pay the fine than fight it in court.
Get a court to cite them for violation of 14th Amendment Section 3 and toss them from their seats in Congress.
I suspect that might get the attention of modern-day Confederates in the Congress.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by kramerica.inc »

Yes, but guys like Meadows probably stood to benefit financially more from the sale of his book, rather than testifying.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by cradleandshoot »

dislaxxic wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:17 pm Mitch McConnell, on the Senate floor, January 13, 2021...and i QUOTE:
January 6th was a disgrace. American citizens attacked their own government. They used terrorism to try to stop a specific piece of domestic business they did not like. Fellow Americans beat and bloodied our own police. They stormed the center floor. They tried to hunt down the Speaker of the House. They built a gallows and chanted about murdering the vice president. They did this because they’d been fed wild falsehoods by the most powerful man on earth because he was angry. He lost an election. Former President Trump’s actions preceded the riot are a disgraceful dereliction of duty. The House accused the former president of quote “Incitement”. That is a specific term from the criminal law. Let me just put that aside for a moment and reiterate something I said weeks ago. There’s no question, none, that President Trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day. No question about it.

The people who stormed this building believed they were acting on the wishes and instructions of their president and having that belief was a foreseeable consequence of the growing crescendo of false statements, conspiracy theories, and reckless hyperbole, which the defeated president kept shouting into the largest megaphone on planet Earth. The issue is not only the president's intemperate language on January 6th. It is not just his endorsement of remarks in which an associate urged quote “Trial by combat”. It was also the entire manufactured atmosphere of looming catastrophe. The increasingly wild myths about a reverse landslide election that was somehow being stolen. Some secret coup by our now president.

Now I defended the president’s right to bring any complaints to our legal system. The legal system spoke, the electoral college spoke. As I stood up and said, clearly at that time, the election was settled. It was over, but that just really opened a new chapter of even wilder and more unfounded claims. The leader of the free world cannot spend weeks thundering that shadowy forces are stealing our country and then feign surprise when people believe him and do reckless things. I said many politicians sometimes make overheated comments or use metaphors. We saw that. That unhinged listeners might take literally, but that was different. That’s different from what we saw. This was an intensifying crescendo of conspiracy theories orchestrated by an outgoing president who seemed determined to either overturn the voter’s decision or else torch our institutions on the way out. The unconscionable behavior did not end when the violence actually began.

Whatever our ex president claims he thought might happen that day, whatever right reaction he’s says he meant to produce by that afternoon we know he was watching the same live television as the rest of us. A mob was assaulting the Capitol in his name, these criminals who are carrying his banners, hanging his flags and screaming their loyalty to him. It was obvious that only President Trump could end this. He was the only one who could. Former aides publicly begged him to do so. Loyal allies frantically called the administration. The president did not act swiftly. He did not do his job. He didn’t take steps so federal law could be faithfully executed and order restored. No, instead, according to public reports, he watched television happily as the chaos unfolded. He kept pressing his scheme to overturn the election. Now, even after it was clear to any reasonable observer that Vice President Pence was in serious danger. Even as the mob carrying Trump banners was beating cops and breaching perimeters their president sent a further tweet, attacking his own vice president.

Now predictably and foreseeably under the circumstances, members of the mob seemed to interpret this as a further inspiration to lawlessness and violence, not surprisingly. Later, even when the president did halfheartedly began calling for peace he didn’t call right away for the riot to end. He did not tell the mob to depart until even later. And even then with police officers bleeding and broken glass covering Capitol floors, he kept repeating election lies and praising the criminals. In recent weeks, our ex-president’s associates have tried to use the 74 million Americans who voted to reelect him as a kind of human shield against criticism. Using the 74 million who voted for him as kind of a human seal shield against criticism. Anyone who decries his awful behavior is accused of insulting millions of voters. That’s an absurd deflection. 74 million Americans did not invade the Capitol, hundreds of rioters did. 74 million Americans did not engineer the campaign of disinformation and rage that provoked it. One person did, just one.
The January 6 Panel needs to get off its keister and SUBPOENA TRUMP!

..
The J6 panel will need to go to Florida and drag Trump back in an oversized wheel barrel. What is the point? Trump will never testify to Congress under oath. What is Congress going to do to make him?
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by Kismet »

kramerica.inc wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:01 pm Yes, but guys like Meadows probably stood to benefit financially more from the sale of his book, rather than testifying.
His book sales are in the Christie Zone. Translation: Not exactly jumping off the shelves.
That said, they probably sold a dozen to the select committee though. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Not going to make much $$$$ while residing in a federal lockup for 12 months for contempt even minimum security. :oops:
Last edited by Kismet on Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by cradleandshoot »

Kismet wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:42 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:01 pm Yes, but guys like Meadows probably stood to benefit financially more from the sale of his book, rather than testifying.
His book sales are in the Christie Zone. Translation: Not exactly jumping off the shelves.
That said, they probably sold a dozen to the select committee though. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
So tell me who buys books from these nimrods to begin with?
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

kramerica.inc wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 3:16 pm
youthathletics wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:02 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 12:57 pm From the text on Jan 7, it's not clear that they were "sorry" that the insurrection had happened, rather they were "sorry" that they couldn't overturn the election results. There was no cheating, nor any legal basis at that point for any further challenge...the attack had occurred because they'd encouraged the Big Lie, and moreover had actually continued to try to overturn the election even after all legal avenues had been thoroughly exhausted.
Thank you. That was my point in asking....that life existed prior to January 6 and they exhausted everything. Meaning the text may very well have been taken out of context.

I say fry em'. Maybe that'll get rid of the fringe.
Agree, but what's the penalty?

Up to 6 mos (house arrest or minimum security) and $1k for criminal contempt of congress?

Seems like a speeding ticket. Seems easier to pay the fine than fight it in court.
Max penalty, per count, is 1 year in prison and $100,000 in cash.

Is Meadows up for 2 counts, docs and testimony?
Throw the book at him.

Frankly, if I was Meadows I'd also be worried about counts for violating records act, but that's all small potatoes compared to the serious charges of conspiracy and sedition.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

kramerica.inc wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:01 pm Yes, but guys like Meadows probably stood to benefit financially more from the sale of his book, rather than testifying.
#284 on Amazon and falling?
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by old salt »

The text messages revealed by Cheney show how little support Trump had for his crazy "insurrection" scheme from within the GOP, his Admin, & even his family. Jan 6th was political theater that spun out of control, made possible by a failure to defend the Capitol grounds & building.

Trump's delusion that he could block the election certification was not shared by enough of his party or admin to make it happen, up to & including his VP. Nobody, beyond Trump & a few true believers & fellow grifters, was buying the whacko legal theories proposed by the likes of Eastman & Clark.

Trump was/is nuts, but I've yet to see evidence of anyone within the govt fomenting a violent insurrection, & specifically -- anyone who acted to subvert or delay a response by Federal police & security forces or the National Guard.

The whole National Guard flap is a diversion & smokescreen to paper over the failure of the Capitol Police Board & the DC Mayor to request the forces to adequately defend the Capitol, for fear of the optics of a militaristic police presence. All the above = imho.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by NattyBohChamps04 »

cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:44 pm
Kismet wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:42 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:01 pm Yes, but guys like Meadows probably stood to benefit financially more from the sale of his book, rather than testifying.
His book sales are in the Christie Zone. Translation: Not exactly jumping off the shelves.
That said, they probably sold a dozen to the select committee though. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
So tell me who buys books from these nimrods to begin with?
The National Republican Congressional Committee and the Republican National Committee.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by Kismet »

old salt wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:14 am The text messages revealed by Cheney show how little support Trump had for his crazy "insurrection" scheme from within the GOP, his Admin, & even his family. Jan 6th was political theater that spun out of control, made possible by a failure to defend the Capitol grounds & building.

Trump's delusion that he could block the election certification was not shared by enough of his party or admin to make it happen, up to & including his VP. Nobody, beyond Trump & a few true believers & fellow grifters, was buying the whacko legal theories proposed by the likes of Eastman & Clark.

Trump was/is nuts, but I've yet to see evidence of anyone within the govt fomenting a violent insurrection, & specifically -- anyone who acted to subvert or delay a response by Federal police & security forces or the National Guard.

The whole National Guard flap is a diversion & smokescreen to paper over the failure of the Capitol Police Board & the DC Mayor to request the forces to adequately defend the Capitol, for fear of the optics of a militaristic police presence. All the above = imho.
Actually, it appears that ONE PERSON - the Vice President was the only person not playing ball with the plan. Kindly let us know who else wasn't overtly challenging these plans as you claim. ...

As usual, you're DELUSIONAL. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

Kismet wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:06 pm
old salt wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:14 am The text messages revealed by Cheney show how little support Trump had for his crazy "insurrection" scheme from within the GOP, his Admin, & even his family. Jan 6th was political theater that spun out of control, made possible by a failure to defend the Capitol grounds & building.

Trump's delusion that he could block the election certification was not shared by enough of his party or admin to make it happen, up to & including his VP. Nobody, beyond Trump & a few true believers & fellow grifters, was buying the whacko legal theories proposed by the likes of Eastman & Clark.

Trump was/is nuts, but I've yet to see evidence of anyone within the govt fomenting a violent insurrection, & specifically -- anyone who acted to subvert or delay a response by Federal police & security forces or the National Guard.

The whole National Guard flap is a diversion & smokescreen to paper over the failure of the Capitol Police Board & the DC Mayor to request the forces to adequately defend the Capitol, for fear of the optics of a militaristic police presence. All the above = imho.
Actually, it appears that ONE PERSON - the Vice President was the only person not playing ball with the plan. Kindly let us know who else wasn't overtly challenging these plans as you claim. ...

As usual, you're DELUSIONAL. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Salty's trying to move the goalposts.

What he's saying is that it is not yet proven ("not yet seen evidence") that there were members of the Admin actually wanting violence or (other than Trump's inaction) "acted to subvert or delay a response by Federal police & security forces or the National Guard".

First, he's pretending that's where the goalpost should be, rather than on the intent to overturn the election results. Gotta want violence.

He admits that "Trump & a few true believers & fellow grifters" believed it was possible to overturn the election, that Pence could simply not count disputed votes, and wraps Eastman and Clark (DOJ) into that offhand dismissal, but he either doesn't think Meadows was in on that plan or he's just another "true believer and grifter" so let's ignore the Chief of Staff.

He ignores all the efforts to get the various GOP state people to overturn the results on their end, despite the court rulings.

And he ignores the various Congress folks who were involved in that plan. Including someone from Congress apparently the day after the election, already working that plan.

He ignores the exhortations of the crowd to "fight like hell" and wants to focus solely on the dismay when the GOP folks were in danger as well, when the media folks and political folks in the White House realized that this was all going to blowback on Trump, that it was clear that Antifa hadn't shown up to be the targets of violence from the crowd, instead fighting hand to hand with Capitol Police...and yet were on TV blaming Antifa even though they knew better. They were sticking to the expected narrative that had been planned.

Yes, the "plan" very likely was never that the crowd would actually overtake the Capitol, that they would fight with Capitol police...but rather that they'd go at it with counter protestors and that Congress and Pence would declare for Trump. But Antifia wasn't there...and the counting was continuing...

And yes, there's emerging evidence that groups like the Proud Boys etc were told that the National Guard would be on their side when it went down. They came prepared for violence.

But the "plan"'s purpose wasn't the violence per se, it was to overturn a legal election.

The "plan" failed, the election wasn't overturned.
But that doesn't mean there wasn't a plan and that a whole lot of a-holes weren't in on it.

There was and they were. Details are being fleshed out. And they're very disgustingly damning.

But yeah, people got scared and realized the plan was failing...
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by Matnum PI »

Rep Liz Cheney (R-WY) on House floor tonight, "How we address January 6th is the moral test of our generation"
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by old salt »

Kismet wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:06 pm
old salt wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:14 am The text messages revealed by Cheney show how little support Trump had for his crazy "insurrection" scheme from within the GOP, his Admin, & even his family. Jan 6th was political theater that spun out of control, made possible by a failure to defend the Capitol grounds & building.

Trump's delusion that he could block the election certification was not shared by enough of his party or admin to make it happen, up to & including his VP. Nobody, beyond Trump & a few true believers & fellow grifters, was buying the whacko legal theories proposed by the likes of Eastman & Clark.

Trump was/is nuts, but I've yet to see evidence of anyone within the govt fomenting a violent insurrection, & specifically -- anyone who acted to subvert or delay a response by Federal police & security forces or the National Guard.

The whole National Guard flap is a diversion & smokescreen to paper over the failure of the Capitol Police Board & the DC Mayor to request the forces to adequately defend the Capitol, for fear of the optics of a militaristic police presence. All the above = imho.
Actually, it appears that ONE PERSON - the Vice President was the only person not playing ball with the plan. Kindly let us know who else wasn't overtly challenging these plans as you claim. ...

As usual, you're DELUSIONAL. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Barr & Esper + their replacements. Pompeo was out of the country a lot.
Liz will tell us who else was actually in on "the plan", in good time, when it has the most dramatic effect.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by old salt »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:39 pm And yes, there's emerging evidence that groups like the Proud Boys etc were told that the National Guard would be on their side when it went down. They came prepared for violence.
Link ? Source ? ...plz share this emerging evidence that the National Guard would side with the protesters.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by Kismet »

old salt wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:00 pm
Kismet wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:06 pm
old salt wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:14 am The text messages revealed by Cheney show how little support Trump had for his crazy "insurrection" scheme from within the GOP, his Admin, & even his family. Jan 6th was political theater that spun out of control, made possible by a failure to defend the Capitol grounds & building.

Trump's delusion that he could block the election certification was not shared by enough of his party or admin to make it happen, up to & including his VP. Nobody, beyond Trump & a few true believers & fellow grifters, was buying the whacko legal theories proposed by the likes of Eastman & Clark.

Trump was/is nuts, but I've yet to see evidence of anyone within the govt fomenting a violent insurrection, & specifically -- anyone who acted to subvert or delay a response by Federal police & security forces or the National Guard.

The whole National Guard flap is a diversion & smokescreen to paper over the failure of the Capitol Police Board & the DC Mayor to request the forces to adequately defend the Capitol, for fear of the optics of a militaristic police presence. All the above = imho.
Actually, it appears that ONE PERSON - the Vice President was the only person not playing ball with the plan. Kindly let us know who else wasn't overtly challenging these plans as you claim. ...

As usual, you're DELUSIONAL. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Barr & Esper + their replacements. Pompeo was out of the country a lot.
Liz will tell us who else was actually in on "the plan", in good time, when it has the most dramatic effect.
Like I said, you're DELUSIONAL. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I'll take more of Cheney's desired effects to the sedition caucus anytime

Cheney is a freakin' Republican. Unlike you, she knows a duck when she sees and hears one. :roll:
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by old salt »

Yawn, it is all just political theater until the DoJ tells us all about it in a "speaking incictmemt'.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by cradleandshoot »

Kismet wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:28 pm
old salt wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:00 pm
Kismet wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:06 pmn
old salt wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:14 am The text messages revealed by Cheney show how little support Trump had for his crazy "insurrection" scheme from within the GOP, his Admin, & even his family. Jan 6th was political theater that spun out of control, made possible by a failure to defend the Capitol grounds & building.

Trump's delusion that he could block the election certification was not shared by enough of his party or admin to make it happen, up to & including his VP. Nobody, beyond Trump & a few true believers & fellow grifters, was buying the whacko legal theories proposed by the likes of Eastman & Clark.

Trump was/is nuts, but I've yet to see evidence of anyone within the govt fomenting a violent insurrection, & specifically -- anyone who acted to subvert or delay a response by Federal police & security forces or the National Guard.

The whole National Guard flap is a diversion & smokescreen to paper over the failure of the Capitol Police Board & the DC Mayor to request the forces to adequately defend the Capitol, for fear of the optics of a militaristic police presence. All the above = imho.
Actually, it appears that ONE PERSON - the Vice President was the only person not playing ball with the plan. Kindly let us know who else wasn't overtly challenging these plans as you claim. ...

As usual, you're DELUSIONAL. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Barr & Esper + their replacements. Pompeo was out of the country a lot.
Liz will tell us who else was actually in on "the plan", in good time, when it has the most dramatic effect.
Like I said, you're DELUSIONAL. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I'll take more of Cheney's desired effects to the sedition caucus anytime

Cheney is a freakin' Republican. Unlike you, she knows a duck when she sees and hears one. :roll:
She is also a republican now also hob nobbing with the same Democrats who called her father a murdering war criminal. If you can make any sense out of that then please enlighten me? FTR didn't Liz suck up to Trump to get that pardon for Scooter Libby. You know the one her old mans boss wouldn't approve of..
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
Bob Ross:
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