Is America a racist nation?

[old salt]

And no, OS, clearly doesn't agree with the removal of the Confederate monuments, portraits, base names, etc. Align yourself with his views, and you're not agreeing with Kismet after all.

You don't know what I think. Stop speculating.

Had the British traitors who founded our nation (to dodge taxes on their slave earned wealth) been defeated in their insurrection, we'd be happy & polite Canadians, freeloading (for our defense) on wealthy Mexifornia across our southern & western borders.

These woke revisionist historical what-if's are great fun. Hating the USA is liberating.

[cradleandshoot]

And no, OS, clearly doesn't agree with the removal of the Confederate monuments, portraits, base names, etc. Align yourself with his views, and you're not agreeing with Kismet after all.

You don't know what I think. Stop speculating.

Had the British traitors who founded our nation (to dodge taxes on their slave earned wealth) been defeated in their insurrection, we'd be happy & polite Canadians, freeloading (for our defense) on wealthy Mexifornia across our southern & western borders.

These woke revisionist historical what-if's are great fun. Hating the USA is liberating.

IMO our friend MD knows what everybody is thinking. I found out yesterday he is the fanlax forum expert in interpreting right wing code talk. If I have a chance today I'm going to bone up on left wing code talk.

[Farfromgeneva]

What in the world is going on here?

Someone determined to be angry and spoiling for a fight.

I see.

My problem is I sometimes invoke the spirit of Val Kilmer in tombstone and show up for Johnny Ringo when he’s expecting someone else…

yOu RAnG?

I like wings but that pics makes him look like the guy you do not want coaching your kid in little league.

[Farfromgeneva]

And no, OS, clearly doesn't agree with the removal of the Confederate monuments, portraits, base names, etc. Align yourself with his views, and you're not agreeing with Kismet after all.

You don't know what I think. Stop speculating.

Had the British traitors who founded our nation (to dodge taxes on their slave earned wealth) been defeated in their insurrection, we'd be happy & polite Canadians, freeloading (for our defense) on wealthy Mexifornia across our southern & western borders.

These woke revisionist historical what-if's are great fun. Hating the USA is liberating.

With this consistent line of argument it sure appears like you are defending the secessionists. Care to state clearly your position on that? Or would you rather be unclear so you can claim to reject anything anyone would infer while being opaque?

[cradleandshoot]

I have been meaning to throw this out here on this forum. This morning I have a few moments to do so. There has been a suggestion here by some posters about a solution to the issue of confederate statues and monuments. i agree for the most part about the solution. These items should be but in a central location, be that a museum, to be displayed in their proper context in history. My question here, who is to decide what that proper context is? Is that the US government? Is that the sons and daughters of the confederacy? Who would establish this museum? Is it possible that a sanctuary for all these confederates would then be created? Instead of statues standing in a public square that pigeons poop on and drunken college students urinate on there is now a holy spot where all the modern day relatives of the con federacy can go and pay homage to their ancestors. Sometimes you have to be careful about what you ask for. You now would have one location where throngs of people could have picinics in the summer celebrating Robert E Lee and the old south. You would also have throngs of counter protesters outside the new museum protesting anybody that would go in to visit. What say all of you folks? I'm a NY Yankee, if they busted all these statues down and sold them for scrap I would be just as fine with that.

[Farfromgeneva]

Harrison, AR

[Typical Lax Dad]

Harrison, AR

I’m your huckleberry

[Farfromgeneva]

Harrison, AR

I’m your huckleberry

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DP4WjtsssYY

[tech37]

I have been meaning to throw this out here on this forum. This morning I have a few moments to do so. There has been a suggestion here by some posters about a solution to the issue of confederate statues and monuments. i agree for the most part about the solution. These items should be but in a central location, be that a museum, to be displayed in their proper context in history. My question here, who is to decide what that proper context is? Is that the US government? Is that the sons and daughters of the confederacy? Who would establish this museum? Is it possible that a sanctuary for all these confederates would then be created? Instead of statues standing in a public square that pigeons poop on and drunken college students urinate on there is now a holy spot where all the modern day relatives of the con federacy can go and pay homage to their ancestors. Sometimes you have to be careful about what you ask for. You now would have one location where throngs of people could have picinics in the summer celebrating Robert E Lee and the old south. You would also have throngs of counter protesters outside the new museum protesting anybody that would go in to visit. What say all of you folks? I'm a NY Yankee, if they busted all these statues down and sold them for scrap I would be just as fine with that.

Definitely not the US Govt. Shouldn't decisions like that be left up to state and city govt's?

I'm basically agnostic re the monument issue, but if people are offended by certain statues/monuments/relics placed in the "public square", of course action should be taken.

State and/or city govts should decide, firstly, whether there is valid basis for demands for removal, and secondly by vote, whether the relics should left in place, destroyed, or placed in a museum setting.

A recent example:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/ ... laveowner/

Personally, I would never have voted for this. In the case of Jefferson, his body of work outweighs his participation in malevolent 18th/19th Century norms.

Vandalism should never be acceptable. Convicted offenders should face jail time.

A national historic park like Gettysburg should be left untouched, and in the case of national parks and museums, have federal protections.

[RedFromMI]

Two actions of note regarding statues - the infamous Nathan Bedford Forrest statue visible from I-65 in the Nashville area was removed after the owner died. Not sure of the disposition of the statue.

The famous statue of Robert E. Lee removed from public viewing in Charlottesville, VA is to be melted down by a Black History museum to create new art...

[Bart]

Harrison, AR

I’m your huckleberry

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DP4WjtsssYY

You really need to learn to embed your youtube videos

[Typical Lax Dad]

I have been meaning to throw this out here on this forum. This morning I have a few moments to do so. There has been a suggestion here by some posters about a solution to the issue of confederate statues and monuments. i agree for the most part about the solution. These items should be but in a central location, be that a museum, to be displayed in their proper context in history. My question here, who is to decide what that proper context is? Is that the US government? Is that the sons and daughters of the confederacy? Who would establish this museum? Is it possible that a sanctuary for all these confederates would then be created? Instead of statues standing in a public square that pigeons poop on and drunken college students urinate on there is now a holy spot where all the modern day relatives of the con federacy can go and pay homage to their ancestors. Sometimes you have to be careful about what you ask for. You now would have one location where throngs of people could have picinics in the summer celebrating Robert E Lee and the old south. You would also have throngs of counter protesters outside the new museum protesting anybody that would go in to visit. What say all of you folks? I'm a NY Yankee, if they busted all these statues down and sold them for scrap I would be just as fine with that.

Definitely not the US Govt. Shouldn't decisions like that be left up to state and city govt's?

I'm basically agnostic re the monument issue, but if people are offended by certain statues/monuments/relics placed in the "public square", of course action should be taken.

State and/or city govts should decide, firstly, whether there is valid basis for demands for removal, and secondly by vote, whether the relics should left in place, destroyed, or placed in a museum setting.

A recent example:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/ ... laveowner/

Personally, I would never have voted for this. In the case of Jefferson, his body of work outweighs his participation in malevolent 18th/19th Century norms.

Vandalism should never be acceptable. Convicted offenders should face jail time.

A national historic park like Gettysburg should be left untouched, and in the case of national parks and museums, have federal protections.

The Jefferson decision was an overreach in my opinion. Owning slaves isn’t an automatic disqualification for me. That statute of Jefferson wasn’t a “south shall rise again” symbol.

[MDlaxfan76]

And no, OS, clearly doesn't agree with the removal of the Confederate monuments, portraits, base names, etc. Align yourself with his views, and you're not agreeing with Kismet after all.

You don't know what I think. Stop speculating.

Had the British traitors who founded our nation (to dodge taxes on their slave earned wealth) been defeated in their insurrection, we'd be happy & polite Canadians, freeloading (for our defense) on wealthy Mexifornia across our southern & western borders.

These woke revisionist historical what-if's are great fun. Hating the USA is liberating.

IMO our friend MD knows what everybody is thinking. I found out yesterday he is the fanlax forum expert in interpreting right wing code talk. If I have a chance today I'm going to bone up on left wing code talk.

I don't think Salty's at all difficult to understand, including in this post here.

But here's something more provocative, is he really saying that he hates American democracy, would prefer fascism?

[youthathletics]

I have been meaning to throw this out here on this forum. This morning I have a few moments to do so. There has been a suggestion here by some posters about a solution to the issue of confederate statues and monuments. i agree for the most part about the solution. These items should be but in a central location, be that a museum, to be displayed in their proper context in history. My question here, who is to decide what that proper context is? Is that the US government? Is that the sons and daughters of the confederacy? Who would establish this museum? Is it possible that a sanctuary for all these confederates would then be created? Instead of statues standing in a public square that pigeons poop on and drunken college students urinate on there is now a holy spot where all the modern day relatives of the con federacy can go and pay homage to their ancestors. Sometimes you have to be careful about what you ask for. You now would have one location where throngs of people could have picinics in the summer celebrating Robert E Lee and the old south. You would also have throngs of counter protesters outside the new museum protesting anybody that would go in to visit. What say all of you folks? I'm a NY Yankee, if they busted all these statues down and sold them for scrap I would be just as fine with that.

Definitely not the US Govt. Shouldn't decisions like that be left up to state and city govt's?

I'm basically agnostic re the monument issue, but if people are offended by certain statues/monuments/relics placed in the "public square", of course action should be taken.

State and/or city govts should decide, firstly, whether there is valid basis for demands for removal, and secondly by vote, whether the relics should left in place, destroyed, or placed in a museum setting.

A recent example:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/ ... laveowner/

Personally, I would never have voted for this. In the case of Jefferson, his body of work outweighs his participation in malevolent 18th/19th Century norms.

Vandalism should never be acceptable. Convicted offenders should face jail time.

A national historic park like Gettysburg should be left untouched, and in the case of national parks and museums, have federal protections.

My line of thinking is like this....

Let's say you get bit by a snake, it hurts like hell. you treat it, but there is a huge scar, trauma, and bandage......the pain slowly subsides, the scar begins to heal as you treat the wound, and before you know it, the pain is gone...but every once and while you look down and see that small scar, which reminds you of the pain endured .... but look how far you have come. I treat most things in life like this....opportunity to suffer, and in turn being fortunate to grow. I do the very same with emotional injuries.

What does that have to do with statues? I think they should be a reminder of pain in a time where there was a scar on us, trauma....and simply removing them out of sight does not allow us to educate ourselves and grieve through the pain, recognizing how far we truly have come. I say an option is to keep them up....not for the sake memorializing them, but as an opportunity to be reminded to not ever do that again. Change the plaques to read something that helps us grow.

Not a sermon, just a thought.

[Farfromgeneva]

Harrison, AR

I’m your huckleberry

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DP4WjtsssYY

You really need to learn to embed your youtube videos

Wayyy down the list of priorities

[Farfromgeneva]

I have been meaning to throw this out here on this forum. This morning I have a few moments to do so. There has been a suggestion here by some posters about a solution to the issue of confederate statues and monuments. i agree for the most part about the solution. These items should be but in a central location, be that a museum, to be displayed in their proper context in history. My question here, who is to decide what that proper context is? Is that the US government? Is that the sons and daughters of the confederacy? Who would establish this museum? Is it possible that a sanctuary for all these confederates would then be created? Instead of statues standing in a public square that pigeons poop on and drunken college students urinate on there is now a holy spot where all the modern day relatives of the con federacy can go and pay homage to their ancestors. Sometimes you have to be careful about what you ask for. You now would have one location where throngs of people could have picinics in the summer celebrating Robert E Lee and the old south. You would also have throngs of counter protesters outside the new museum protesting anybody that would go in to visit. What say all of you folks? I'm a NY Yankee, if they busted all these statues down and sold them for scrap I would be just as fine with that.

Definitely not the US Govt. Shouldn't decisions like that be left up to state and city govt's?

I'm basically agnostic re the monument issue, but if people are offended by certain statues/monuments/relics placed in the "public square", of course action should be taken.

State and/or city govts should decide, firstly, whether there is valid basis for demands for removal, and secondly by vote, whether the relics should left in place, destroyed, or placed in a museum setting.

A recent example:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/ ... laveowner/

Personally, I would never have voted for this. In the case of Jefferson, his body of work outweighs his participation in malevolent 18th/19th Century norms.

Vandalism should never be acceptable. Convicted offenders should face jail time.

A national historic park like Gettysburg should be left untouched, and in the case of national parks and museums, have federal protections.

The Jefferson decision was an overreach in my opinion. Owning slaves isn’t an automatic disqualification for me. That statute of Jefferson wasn’t a “south shall rise again” symbol.

Yep it’s just momentum. “We got that one, what’s next in the let’s burn this muthaf**ka down” inertia. All it needs is calm simple resistance but instead gets knee jerk reactions, slurs, “oh god the woke mob is taking over” and petty idiotic arguments like when folks are defending England-who everyone on the planet has a legit beef with. It’s the over the top response to legitimate restructuring/rearranging of our priorities and symbols that creates the monster wrecking ball overshoot. The early and initial movement is almost always proper and correct.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I have been meaning to throw this out here on this forum. This morning I have a few moments to do so. There has been a suggestion here by some posters about a solution to the issue of confederate statues and monuments. i agree for the most part about the solution. These items should be but in a central location, be that a museum, to be displayed in their proper context in history. My question here, who is to decide what that proper context is? Is that the US government? Is that the sons and daughters of the confederacy? Who would establish this museum? Is it possible that a sanctuary for all these confederates would then be created? Instead of statues standing in a public square that pigeons poop on and drunken college students urinate on there is now a holy spot where all the modern day relatives of the con federacy can go and pay homage to their ancestors. Sometimes you have to be careful about what you ask for. You now would have one location where throngs of people could have picinics in the summer celebrating Robert E Lee and the old south. You would also have throngs of counter protesters outside the new museum protesting anybody that would go in to visit. What say all of you folks? I'm a NY Yankee, if they busted all these statues down and sold them for scrap I would be just as fine with that.

Definitely not the US Govt. Shouldn't decisions like that be left up to state and city govt's?

I'm basically agnostic re the monument issue, but if people are offended by certain statues/monuments/relics placed in the "public square", of course action should be taken.

State and/or city govts should decide, firstly, whether there is valid basis for demands for removal, and secondly by vote, whether the relics should left in place, destroyed, or placed in a museum setting.

A recent example:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/ ... laveowner/

Personally, I would never have voted for this. In the case of Jefferson, his body of work outweighs his participation in malevolent 18th/19th Century norms.

Vandalism should never be acceptable. Convicted offenders should face jail time.

A national historic park like Gettysburg should be left untouched, and in the case of national parks and museums, have federal protections.

My line of thinking is like this....

Let's say you get bit by a snake, it hurts like hell. you treat it, but there is a huge scar, trauma, and bandage......the pain slowly subsides, the scar begins to heal as you treat the wound, and before you know it, the pain is gone...but every once and while you look down and see that small scar, which reminds you of the pain endured .... but look how far you have come. I treat most things in life like this....opportunity to suffer, and in turn being fortunate to grow. I do the very same with emotional injuries.

What does that have to do with statues? I think they should be a reminder of pain in a time where there was a scar on us, trauma....and simply removing them out of sight does not allow us to educate ourselves and grieve through the pain, recognizing how far we truly have come. I say an option is to keep them up....not for the sake memorializing them, but as an opportunity to be reminded to not ever do that again. Change the plaques to read something that helps us grow.

Not a sermon, just a thought.

How would Nazi statues in Germany go over?

[Typical Lax Dad]

I have been meaning to throw this out here on this forum. This morning I have a few moments to do so. There has been a suggestion here by some posters about a solution to the issue of confederate statues and monuments. i agree for the most part about the solution. These items should be but in a central location, be that a museum, to be displayed in their proper context in history. My question here, who is to decide what that proper context is? Is that the US government? Is that the sons and daughters of the confederacy? Who would establish this museum? Is it possible that a sanctuary for all these confederates would then be created? Instead of statues standing in a public square that pigeons poop on and drunken college students urinate on there is now a holy spot where all the modern day relatives of the con federacy can go and pay homage to their ancestors. Sometimes you have to be careful about what you ask for. You now would have one location where throngs of people could have picinics in the summer celebrating Robert E Lee and the old south. You would also have throngs of counter protesters outside the new museum protesting anybody that would go in to visit. What say all of you folks? I'm a NY Yankee, if they busted all these statues down and sold them for scrap I would be just as fine with that.

Definitely not the US Govt. Shouldn't decisions like that be left up to state and city govt's?

I'm basically agnostic re the monument issue, but if people are offended by certain statues/monuments/relics placed in the "public square", of course action should be taken.

State and/or city govts should decide, firstly, whether there is valid basis for demands for removal, and secondly by vote, whether the relics should left in place, destroyed, or placed in a museum setting.

A recent example:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/ ... laveowner/

Personally, I would never have voted for this. In the case of Jefferson, his body of work outweighs his participation in malevolent 18th/19th Century norms.

Vandalism should never be acceptable. Convicted offenders should face jail time.

A national historic park like Gettysburg should be left untouched, and in the case of national parks and museums, have federal protections.

The Jefferson decision was an overreach in my opinion. Owning slaves isn’t an automatic disqualification for me. That statute of Jefferson wasn’t a “south shall rise again” symbol.

Yep it’s just momentum. “We got that one, what’s next in the let’s burn this muthaf**ka down” inertia. All it needs is calm simple resistance but instead gets knee jerk reactions, slurs, “oh god the woke mob is taking over” and petty idiotic arguments like when folks are defending England-who everyone on the planet has a legit beef with. It’s the over the top response to legitimate restructuring/rearranging of our priorities and symbols that creates the monster wrecking ball overshoot. The early and initial movement is almost always proper and correct.

Yep….local politics are local people….often common folk with a common mind….Not always the best and brightest.

[Farfromgeneva]

I have been meaning to throw this out here on this forum. This morning I have a few moments to do so. There has been a suggestion here by some posters about a solution to the issue of confederate statues and monuments. i agree for the most part about the solution. These items should be but in a central location, be that a museum, to be displayed in their proper context in history. My question here, who is to decide what that proper context is? Is that the US government? Is that the sons and daughters of the confederacy? Who would establish this museum? Is it possible that a sanctuary for all these confederates would then be created? Instead of statues standing in a public square that pigeons poop on and drunken college students urinate on there is now a holy spot where all the modern day relatives of the con federacy can go and pay homage to their ancestors. Sometimes you have to be careful about what you ask for. You now would have one location where throngs of people could have picinics in the summer celebrating Robert E Lee and the old south. You would also have throngs of counter protesters outside the new museum protesting anybody that would go in to visit. What say all of you folks? I'm a NY Yankee, if they busted all these statues down and sold them for scrap I would be just as fine with that.

Definitely not the US Govt. Shouldn't decisions like that be left up to state and city govt's?

I'm basically agnostic re the monument issue, but if people are offended by certain statues/monuments/relics placed in the "public square", of course action should be taken.

State and/or city govts should decide, firstly, whether there is valid basis for demands for removal, and secondly by vote, whether the relics should left in place, destroyed, or placed in a museum setting.

A recent example:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/ ... laveowner/

Personally, I would never have voted for this. In the case of Jefferson, his body of work outweighs his participation in malevolent 18th/19th Century norms.

Vandalism should never be acceptable. Convicted offenders should face jail time.

A national historic park like Gettysburg should be left untouched, and in the case of national parks and museums, have federal protections.

My line of thinking is like this....

Let's say you get bit by a snake, it hurts like hell. you treat it, but there is a huge scar, trauma, and bandage......the pain slowly subsides, the scar begins to heal as you treat the wound, and before you know it, the pain is gone...but every once and while you look down and see that small scar, which reminds you of the pain endured .... but look how far you have come. I treat most things in life like this....opportunity to suffer, and in turn being fortunate to grow. I do the very same with emotional injuries.

What does that have to do with statues? I think they should be a reminder of pain in a time where there was a scar on us, trauma....and simply removing them out of sight does not allow us to educate ourselves and grieve through the pain, recognizing how far we truly have come. I say an option is to keep them up....not for the sake memorializing them, but as an opportunity to be reminded to not ever do that again. Change the plaques to read something that helps us grow.

Not a sermon, just a thought.

That sounds like modern Germans reflecting on nazi Germany.

But consider in your optimistic approach the black 40-50yr old dude who’s trying to be the best father he can to his kids and give them the most optimal emotional support so they can grow up healthy and he walks by these things and the wounds never heal because he feels the hurt his father and grandfather felt with the oppression those statues and symbols affected in their lives. Consider Jim Crow and statues thrown up in folks faces into the second half of the last century, 100yrs after the civil war, is only a generation or two ago so this is very real and has been articulated throughout the south numerous times. Now is this position your suggesting reasonable or highly parochial and telling black peoples how to feel about the abuses they had inflicted on them?

[Farfromgeneva]

I have been meaning to throw this out here on this forum. This morning I have a few moments to do so. There has been a suggestion here by some posters about a solution to the issue of confederate statues and monuments. i agree for the most part about the solution. These items should be but in a central location, be that a museum, to be displayed in their proper context in history. My question here, who is to decide what that proper context is? Is that the US government? Is that the sons and daughters of the confederacy? Who would establish this museum? Is it possible that a sanctuary for all these confederates would then be created? Instead of statues standing in a public square that pigeons poop on and drunken college students urinate on there is now a holy spot where all the modern day relatives of the con federacy can go and pay homage to their ancestors. Sometimes you have to be careful about what you ask for. You now would have one location where throngs of people could have picinics in the summer celebrating Robert E Lee and the old south. You would also have throngs of counter protesters outside the new museum protesting anybody that would go in to visit. What say all of you folks? I'm a NY Yankee, if they busted all these statues down and sold them for scrap I would be just as fine with that.

Definitely not the US Govt. Shouldn't decisions like that be left up to state and city govt's?

I'm basically agnostic re the monument issue, but if people are offended by certain statues/monuments/relics placed in the "public square", of course action should be taken.

State and/or city govts should decide, firstly, whether there is valid basis for demands for removal, and secondly by vote, whether the relics should left in place, destroyed, or placed in a museum setting.

A recent example:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/ ... laveowner/

Personally, I would never have voted for this. In the case of Jefferson, his body of work outweighs his participation in malevolent 18th/19th Century norms.

Vandalism should never be acceptable. Convicted offenders should face jail time.

A national historic park like Gettysburg should be left untouched, and in the case of national parks and museums, have federal protections.

The Jefferson decision was an overreach in my opinion. Owning slaves isn’t an automatic disqualification for me. That statute of Jefferson wasn’t a “south shall rise again” symbol.

Yep it’s just momentum. “We got that one, what’s next in the let’s burn this muthaf**ka down” inertia. All it needs is calm simple resistance but instead gets knee jerk reactions, slurs, “oh god the woke mob is taking over” and petty idiotic arguments like when folks are defending England-who everyone on the planet has a legit beef with. It’s the over the top response to legitimate restructuring/rearranging of our priorities and symbols that creates the monster wrecking ball overshoot. The early and initial movement is almost always proper and correct.

Yep….local politics are local people….often common folk with a common mind….Not always the best and brightest.

Binghamton Captain Karen!