Is America a racist nation?

[Farfromgeneva]

Look. You're not bothering to pay attention to what YOU are writing over time...and it's confusing your fellow posters, including me.

Sometimes you need to relax, and realize that it's YOUR fault because you're all over the place with your thoughts. It's not a big deal...when we're telling you what you're conveying to the reader...and you think we're wrong, just take a second and clarify your points. Problem solved.

So yes, you wrote this.....

Here's what I reasonably wrote to a fan in my original post which he conveniently edited out...talk about playing some "game":
"After I posted that, you did an immediate turn to discuss statues. Obviously that subject requires nuance/discernment and I'm sure we would find agreement in some, perhaps most instances."

But you also wrote this:

Sure, go ahead and qualify historic things all you want but then let people make up their own minds. But simply wipe it out? Like it or not, it's all part and parcel of who we are.

So in the top quote? You tell me that statues require nuance and discernment. And guess what? I AGREE with you on that.

But in the bottom one, you're saying the opposite and tell me NO such nuance is needed.

And you gave me that same sentiment again with your "I made this general post the other day: "History is indelible, good or bad, can't nor should be erased." In a general sense, do you agree? If not, let's stop there because any discussion thereafter will hit the wall.

So be honest....are you REALLY surprised that I'm confused by your words?

If you're sticking to your "Obviously that subject requires nuance/discernment and I'm sure we would find agreement in some, perhaps most instances."? We're good, and understand each other. And I agree with that position, for what its worth.

No longer honor or celebrate is not the same thing as erasing or wiping out history. Saddam Hussein’s statue was toppled and the Berlin Wall came down. Those events are part of history.

Sethi:
“Let the name of Moses be stricken from every book and tablet. Stricken from every pylon and obelisk of Egypt. Let the name of Moses be unheard and unspoken, erased from the memory of man, for all time.…”

Still part of history. Not erased.

Excellent point. Or beating my own drum, not the x rated metaphor I could rightly be accused of having in mind, don’t put the things up.

Small quibble in. That the Berlin Wall was only partially destroyed-I once partied in a private club below ground where the wall still stood around the turn of the Millenium. That was dope.

Yep. I have not been to Germany but would like to visit. My father was stationed there while doing his time in the Air Force. He had good memories of it, I believe, as I never heard him say anything negative about it.

All generalizations:

For visiting, IMO, culturally Southern Europe > Northern Europe. Except if you include Vienna/Austria in S Europe. It’s pretty buildings, art museums and decadence in N Europe while there’s more outdoors/landscape and people interacting in S Europe. First time travelers N Europe may be better, go see the sights and take it in on the double decker busses etc. get comfortable being in a “different” place then start trekking into Seville, Luzerne, Florence, Prague, etc.

Checkpoint Charlie is cool, if surreal. Bldgs in Dresden are spectacular. Black Forest-eh.

Belgium I really love from Brussels-Knokke-Antwerp-Bruges.

France-skip Paris and head south.

[cradleandshoot]

I never knew those silly rednecks were code talkers. Is there a translation guide somewhere on this forum? Do FLP folks also speak in code as well?

Cradle, I don't call you out often because of the respect I have for you, but not this time. It's. ALL. Code.

"Stand back and stand by."

"There were very fine people on both sides."

https://www.newsbreak.com/news/24544943 ... -rochester

I was going to save this for MD. Bob Lonsberry is a guy i have met on several occasions. He, not unlike MD lax, identifies as a conservative republican. His column here is tongue in cheek, yet still filled with all kinds of "code talk" from the FLP folks that have run Rochester NY into the ground over the past 20 years for starters. If Nathaniel Rochester owned slaves then that makes him no different than the southern rabble we want removed from our everyday sight. The obvious question for a sane person would be "where does this nonsense stop" ? What should we rename the city of Rochester NY? Nathaniel Rochester is no better than all of that other confederate rabble. Mr Lonsberrys column is filled with all kinds of FLP "code talk" that I have been led to believe only exists in the world of redneck hillbillies who are afraid of history being expunged.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Look. You're not bothering to pay attention to what YOU are writing over time...and it's confusing your fellow posters, including me.

Sometimes you need to relax, and realize that it's YOUR fault because you're all over the place with your thoughts. It's not a big deal...when we're telling you what you're conveying to the reader...and you think we're wrong, just take a second and clarify your points. Problem solved.

So yes, you wrote this.....

Here's what I reasonably wrote to a fan in my original post which he conveniently edited out...talk about playing some "game":
"After I posted that, you did an immediate turn to discuss statues. Obviously that subject requires nuance/discernment and I'm sure we would find agreement in some, perhaps most instances."

But you also wrote this:

Sure, go ahead and qualify historic things all you want but then let people make up their own minds. But simply wipe it out? Like it or not, it's all part and parcel of who we are.

So in the top quote? You tell me that statues require nuance and discernment. And guess what? I AGREE with you on that.

But in the bottom one, you're saying the opposite and tell me NO such nuance is needed.

And you gave me that same sentiment again with your "I made this general post the other day: "History is indelible, good or bad, can't nor should be erased." In a general sense, do you agree? If not, let's stop there because any discussion thereafter will hit the wall.

So be honest....are you REALLY surprised that I'm confused by your words?

If you're sticking to your "Obviously that subject requires nuance/discernment and I'm sure we would find agreement in some, perhaps most instances."? We're good, and understand each other. And I agree with that position, for what its worth.

No longer honor or celebrate is not the same thing as erasing or wiping out history. Saddam Hussein’s statue was toppled and the Berlin Wall came down. Those events are part of history.

Sethi:
“Let the name of Moses be stricken from every book and tablet. Stricken from every pylon and obelisk of Egypt. Let the name of Moses be unheard and unspoken, erased from the memory of man, for all time.…”

Still part of history. Not erased.

Excellent point. Or beating my own drum, not the x rated metaphor I could rightly be accused of having in mind, don’t put the things up.

Small quibble in. That the Berlin Wall was only partially destroyed-I once partied in a private club below ground where the wall still stood around the turn of the Millenium. That was dope.

Yep. I have not been to Germany but would like to visit. My father was stationed there while doing his time in the Air Force. He had good memories of it, I believe, as I never heard him say anything negative about it.

All generalizations:

For visiting, IMO, culturally Southern Europe > Northern Europe. Except if you include Vienna/Austria in S Europe. It’s pretty buildings, art museums and decadence in N Europe while there’s more outdoors/landscape and people interacting in S Europe. First time travelers N Europe may be better, go see the sights and take it in on the double decker busses etc. get comfortable being in a “different” place then start trekking into Seville, Luzerne, Florence, Prague, etc.

Checkpoint Charlie is cool, if surreal. Bldgs in Dresden are spectacular. Black Forest-eh.

Belgium I really love from Brussels-Knokke-Antwerp-Bruges.

France-skip Paris and head south.

Love Paris. Friends make the place.

[Farfromgeneva]

Look. You're not bothering to pay attention to what YOU are writing over time...and it's confusing your fellow posters, including me.

Sometimes you need to relax, and realize that it's YOUR fault because you're all over the place with your thoughts. It's not a big deal...when we're telling you what you're conveying to the reader...and you think we're wrong, just take a second and clarify your points. Problem solved.

So yes, you wrote this.....

Here's what I reasonably wrote to a fan in my original post which he conveniently edited out...talk about playing some "game":
"After I posted that, you did an immediate turn to discuss statues. Obviously that subject requires nuance/discernment and I'm sure we would find agreement in some, perhaps most instances."

But you also wrote this:

Sure, go ahead and qualify historic things all you want but then let people make up their own minds. But simply wipe it out? Like it or not, it's all part and parcel of who we are.

So in the top quote? You tell me that statues require nuance and discernment. And guess what? I AGREE with you on that.

But in the bottom one, you're saying the opposite and tell me NO such nuance is needed.

And you gave me that same sentiment again with your "I made this general post the other day: "History is indelible, good or bad, can't nor should be erased." In a general sense, do you agree? If not, let's stop there because any discussion thereafter will hit the wall.

So be honest....are you REALLY surprised that I'm confused by your words?

If you're sticking to your "Obviously that subject requires nuance/discernment and I'm sure we would find agreement in some, perhaps most instances."? We're good, and understand each other. And I agree with that position, for what its worth.

No longer honor or celebrate is not the same thing as erasing or wiping out history. Saddam Hussein’s statue was toppled and the Berlin Wall came down. Those events are part of history.

Sethi:
“Let the name of Moses be stricken from every book and tablet. Stricken from every pylon and obelisk of Egypt. Let the name of Moses be unheard and unspoken, erased from the memory of man, for all time.…”

Still part of history. Not erased.

Excellent point. Or beating my own drum, not the x rated metaphor I could rightly be accused of having in mind, don’t put the things up.

Small quibble in. That the Berlin Wall was only partially destroyed-I once partied in a private club below ground where the wall still stood around the turn of the Millenium. That was dope.

Yep. I have not been to Germany but would like to visit. My father was stationed there while doing his time in the Air Force. He had good memories of it, I believe, as I never heard him say anything negative about it.

All generalizations:

For visiting, IMO, culturally Southern Europe > Northern Europe. Except if you include Vienna/Austria in S Europe. It’s pretty buildings, art museums and decadence in N Europe while there’s more outdoors/landscape and people interacting in S Europe. First time travelers N Europe may be better, go see the sights and take it in on the double decker busses etc. get comfortable being in a “different” place then start trekking into Seville, Luzerne, Florence, Prague, etc.

Checkpoint Charlie is cool, if surreal. Bldgs in Dresden are spectacular. Black Forest-eh.

Belgium I really love from Brussels-Knokke-Antwerp-Bruges.

France-skip Paris and head south.

Love Paris. Friends make the place.

Definitely true

[cradleandshoot]

Look. You're not bothering to pay attention to what YOU are writing over time...and it's confusing your fellow posters, including me.

Sometimes you need to relax, and realize that it's YOUR fault because you're all over the place with your thoughts. It's not a big deal...when we're telling you what you're conveying to the reader...and you think we're wrong, just take a second and clarify your points. Problem solved.

So yes, you wrote this.....

Here's what I reasonably wrote to a fan in my original post which he conveniently edited out...talk about playing some "game":
"After I posted that, you did an immediate turn to discuss statues. Obviously that subject requires nuance/discernment and I'm sure we would find agreement in some, perhaps most instances."

But you also wrote this:

Sure, go ahead and qualify historic things all you want but then let people make up their own minds. But simply wipe it out? Like it or not, it's all part and parcel of who we are.

So in the top quote? You tell me that statues require nuance and discernment. And guess what? I AGREE with you on that.

But in the bottom one, you're saying the opposite and tell me NO such nuance is needed.

And you gave me that same sentiment again with your "I made this general post the other day: "History is indelible, good or bad, can't nor should be erased." In a general sense, do you agree? If not, let's stop there because any discussion thereafter will hit the wall.

So be honest....are you REALLY surprised that I'm confused by your words?

If you're sticking to your "Obviously that subject requires nuance/discernment and I'm sure we would find agreement in some, perhaps most instances."? We're good, and understand each other. And I agree with that position, for what its worth.

No longer honor or celebrate is not the same thing as erasing or wiping out history. Saddam Hussein’s statue was toppled and the Berlin Wall came down. Those events are part of history.

Sethi:
“Let the name of Moses be stricken from every book and tablet. Stricken from every pylon and obelisk of Egypt. Let the name of Moses be unheard and unspoken, erased from the memory of man, for all time.…”

Still part of history. Not erased.

Excellent point. Or beating my own drum, not the x rated metaphor I could rightly be accused of having in mind, don’t put the things up.

Small quibble in. That the Berlin Wall was only partially destroyed-I once partied in a private club below ground where the wall still stood around the turn of the Millenium. That was dope.

Yep. I have not been to Germany but would like to visit. My father was stationed there while doing his time in the Air Force. He had good memories of it, I believe, as I never heard him say anything negative about it.

I'm glad your dad had fond memories of Germany. When my dad visited he had the natives trying to kill him. What a buzz kill that was.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Look. You're not bothering to pay attention to what YOU are writing over time...and it's confusing your fellow posters, including me.

Sometimes you need to relax, and realize that it's YOUR fault because you're all over the place with your thoughts. It's not a big deal...when we're telling you what you're conveying to the reader...and you think we're wrong, just take a second and clarify your points. Problem solved.

So yes, you wrote this.....

Here's what I reasonably wrote to a fan in my original post which he conveniently edited out...talk about playing some "game":
"After I posted that, you did an immediate turn to discuss statues. Obviously that subject requires nuance/discernment and I'm sure we would find agreement in some, perhaps most instances."

But you also wrote this:

Sure, go ahead and qualify historic things all you want but then let people make up their own minds. But simply wipe it out? Like it or not, it's all part and parcel of who we are.

So in the top quote? You tell me that statues require nuance and discernment. And guess what? I AGREE with you on that.

But in the bottom one, you're saying the opposite and tell me NO such nuance is needed.

And you gave me that same sentiment again with your "I made this general post the other day: "History is indelible, good or bad, can't nor should be erased." In a general sense, do you agree? If not, let's stop there because any discussion thereafter will hit the wall.

So be honest....are you REALLY surprised that I'm confused by your words?

If you're sticking to your "Obviously that subject requires nuance/discernment and I'm sure we would find agreement in some, perhaps most instances."? We're good, and understand each other. And I agree with that position, for what its worth.

No longer honor or celebrate is not the same thing as erasing or wiping out history. Saddam Hussein’s statue was toppled and the Berlin Wall came down. Those events are part of history.

Sethi:
“Let the name of Moses be stricken from every book and tablet. Stricken from every pylon and obelisk of Egypt. Let the name of Moses be unheard and unspoken, erased from the memory of man, for all time.…”

Still part of history. Not erased.

Excellent point. Or beating my own drum, not the x rated metaphor I could rightly be accused of having in mind, don’t put the things up.

Small quibble in. That the Berlin Wall was only partially destroyed-I once partied in a private club below ground where the wall still stood around the turn of the Millenium. That was dope.

Yep. I have not been to Germany but would like to visit. My father was stationed there while doing his time in the Air Force. He had good memories of it, I believe, as I never heard him say anything negative about it.

I'm glad your dad had fond memories of Germany. When my dad visited he had the natives trying to kill him. What a buzz kill that was.

When my great great grandfather was fighting down south, the rebels were trying to kill him. What a buzz kill that was….

[Typical Lax Dad]

Look. You're not bothering to pay attention to what YOU are writing over time...and it's confusing your fellow posters, including me.

Sometimes you need to relax, and realize that it's YOUR fault because you're all over the place with your thoughts. It's not a big deal...when we're telling you what you're conveying to the reader...and you think we're wrong, just take a second and clarify your points. Problem solved.

So yes, you wrote this.....

Here's what I reasonably wrote to a fan in my original post which he conveniently edited out...talk about playing some "game":
"After I posted that, you did an immediate turn to discuss statues. Obviously that subject requires nuance/discernment and I'm sure we would find agreement in some, perhaps most instances."

But you also wrote this:

Sure, go ahead and qualify historic things all you want but then let people make up their own minds. But simply wipe it out? Like it or not, it's all part and parcel of who we are.

So in the top quote? You tell me that statues require nuance and discernment. And guess what? I AGREE with you on that.

But in the bottom one, you're saying the opposite and tell me NO such nuance is needed.

And you gave me that same sentiment again with your "I made this general post the other day: "History is indelible, good or bad, can't nor should be erased." In a general sense, do you agree? If not, let's stop there because any discussion thereafter will hit the wall.

So be honest....are you REALLY surprised that I'm confused by your words?

If you're sticking to your "Obviously that subject requires nuance/discernment and I'm sure we would find agreement in some, perhaps most instances."? We're good, and understand each other. And I agree with that position, for what its worth.

No longer honor or celebrate is not the same thing as erasing or wiping out history. Saddam Hussein’s statue was toppled and the Berlin Wall came down. Those events are part of history.

Sethi:
“Let the name of Moses be stricken from every book and tablet. Stricken from every pylon and obelisk of Egypt. Let the name of Moses be unheard and unspoken, erased from the memory of man, for all time.…”

Still part of history. Not erased.

Excellent point. Or beating my own drum, not the x rated metaphor I could rightly be accused of having in mind, don’t put the things up.

Small quibble in. That the Berlin Wall was only partially destroyed-I once partied in a private club below ground where the wall still stood around the turn of the Millenium. That was dope.

Yep. I have not been to Germany but would like to visit. My father was stationed there while doing his time in the Air Force. He had good memories of it, I believe, as I never heard him say anything negative about it.

All generalizations:

For visiting, IMO, culturally Southern Europe > Northern Europe. Except if you include Vienna/Austria in S Europe. It’s pretty buildings, art museums and decadence in N Europe while there’s more outdoors/landscape and people interacting in S Europe. First time travelers N Europe may be better, go see the sights and take it in on the double decker busses etc. get comfortable being in a “different” place then start trekking into Seville, Luzerne, Florence, Prague, etc.

Checkpoint Charlie is cool, if surreal. Bldgs in Dresden are spectacular. Black Forest-eh.

Belgium I really love from Brussels-Knokke-Antwerp-Bruges.

France-skip Paris and head south.

Love Paris. Friends make the place.

Definitely true

Lyon and Limoges are nice too. Spent a Christmas and New Year’s in Limoges. I have a friend in Nairobi that I want to visit.

[tech37]

Look. You're not bothering to pay attention to what YOU are writing over time...and it's confusing your fellow posters, including me.

Sometimes you need to relax, and realize that it's YOUR fault because you're all over the place with your thoughts. It's not a big deal...when we're telling you what you're conveying to the reader...and you think we're wrong, just take a second and clarify your points. Problem solved.
Total BS a fan. I'm not a professional writer. If I've confused you, just say so or ask what was meant... problem solved.

i hope that suggestion sounds familiar.

So yes, you wrote this.....

Here's what I reasonably wrote to a fan in my original post which he conveniently edited out...talk about playing some "game":
"After I posted that, you did an immediate turn to discuss statues. Obviously that subject requires nuance/discernment and I'm sure we would find agreement in some, perhaps most instances."

But you also wrote this:

Sure, go ahead and qualify historic things all you want but then let people make up their own minds. But simply wipe it out? Like it or not, it's all part and parcel of who we are.

So in the top quote? You tell me that statues require nuance and discernment. And guess what? I AGREE with you on that.

But in the bottom one, you're saying the opposite and tell me NO such nuance is needed.

And you gave me that same sentiment again with your "I made this general post the other day: "History is indelible, good or bad, can't nor should be erased." In a general sense, do you agree? If not, let's stop there because any discussion thereafter will hit the wall.

So be honest....are you REALLY surprised that I'm confused by your words?
I made a couple general statements which I stand by. Monuments/statues are a specific issue that falls under those general statements but that, IMO, require more nuance in discussing/handling. The two can coexist but you conflated...you do that sort of thing often to suit your positions.

If you're sticking to your "Obviously that subject requires nuance/discernment and I'm sure we would find agreement in some, perhaps most instances."? We're good, and understand each other. And I agree with that position, for what its worth.
Yes, I'm sticking to it...yay!

[cradleandshoot]

Look. You're not bothering to pay attention to what YOU are writing over time...and it's confusing your fellow posters, including me.

Sometimes you need to relax, and realize that it's YOUR fault because you're all over the place with your thoughts. It's not a big deal...when we're telling you what you're conveying to the reader...and you think we're wrong, just take a second and clarify your points. Problem solved.

So yes, you wrote this.....

Here's what I reasonably wrote to a fan in my original post which he conveniently edited out...talk about playing some "game":
"After I posted that, you did an immediate turn to discuss statues. Obviously that subject requires nuance/discernment and I'm sure we would find agreement in some, perhaps most instances."

But you also wrote this:

Sure, go ahead and qualify historic things all you want but then let people make up their own minds. But simply wipe it out? Like it or not, it's all part and parcel of who we are.

So in the top quote? You tell me that statues require nuance and discernment. And guess what? I AGREE with you on that.

But in the bottom one, you're saying the opposite and tell me NO such nuance is needed.

And you gave me that same sentiment again with your "I made this general post the other day: "History is indelible, good or bad, can't nor should be erased." In a general sense, do you agree? If not, let's stop there because any discussion thereafter will hit the wall.

So be honest....are you REALLY surprised that I'm confused by your words?

If you're sticking to your "Obviously that subject requires nuance/discernment and I'm sure we would find agreement in some, perhaps most instances."? We're good, and understand each other. And I agree with that position, for what its worth.

No longer honor or celebrate is not the same thing as erasing or wiping out history. Saddam Hussein’s statue was toppled and the Berlin Wall came down. Those events are part of history.

Sethi:
“Let the name of Moses be stricken from every book and tablet. Stricken from every pylon and obelisk of Egypt. Let the name of Moses be unheard and unspoken, erased from the memory of man, for all time.…”

Still part of history. Not erased.

Excellent point. Or beating my own drum, not the x rated metaphor I could rightly be accused of having in mind, don’t put the things up.

Small quibble in. That the Berlin Wall was only partially destroyed-I once partied in a private club below ground where the wall still stood around the turn of the Millenium. That was dope.

Yep. I have not been to Germany but would like to visit. My father was stationed there while doing his time in the Air Force. He had good memories of it, I believe, as I never heard him say anything negative about it.

I'm glad your dad had fond memories of Germany. When my dad visited he had the natives trying to kill him. What a buzz kill that was.

When my great great grandfather was fighting down south, the rebels were trying to kill him. What a buzz kill that was….

To quote you... " You really sound stupid"

[Typical Lax Dad]

Look. You're not bothering to pay attention to what YOU are writing over time...and it's confusing your fellow posters, including me.

Sometimes you need to relax, and realize that it's YOUR fault because you're all over the place with your thoughts. It's not a big deal...when we're telling you what you're conveying to the reader...and you think we're wrong, just take a second and clarify your points. Problem solved.

So yes, you wrote this.....

Here's what I reasonably wrote to a fan in my original post which he conveniently edited out...talk about playing some "game":
"After I posted that, you did an immediate turn to discuss statues. Obviously that subject requires nuance/discernment and I'm sure we would find agreement in some, perhaps most instances."

But you also wrote this:

Sure, go ahead and qualify historic things all you want but then let people make up their own minds. But simply wipe it out? Like it or not, it's all part and parcel of who we are.

So in the top quote? You tell me that statues require nuance and discernment. And guess what? I AGREE with you on that.

But in the bottom one, you're saying the opposite and tell me NO such nuance is needed.

And you gave me that same sentiment again with your "I made this general post the other day: "History is indelible, good or bad, can't nor should be erased." In a general sense, do you agree? If not, let's stop there because any discussion thereafter will hit the wall.

So be honest....are you REALLY surprised that I'm confused by your words?

If you're sticking to your "Obviously that subject requires nuance/discernment and I'm sure we would find agreement in some, perhaps most instances."? We're good, and understand each other. And I agree with that position, for what its worth.

No longer honor or celebrate is not the same thing as erasing or wiping out history. Saddam Hussein’s statue was toppled and the Berlin Wall came down. Those events are part of history.

Sethi:
“Let the name of Moses be stricken from every book and tablet. Stricken from every pylon and obelisk of Egypt. Let the name of Moses be unheard and unspoken, erased from the memory of man, for all time.…”

Still part of history. Not erased.

Excellent point. Or beating my own drum, not the x rated metaphor I could rightly be accused of having in mind, don’t put the things up.

Small quibble in. That the Berlin Wall was only partially destroyed-I once partied in a private club below ground where the wall still stood around the turn of the Millenium. That was dope.

Yep. I have not been to Germany but would like to visit. My father was stationed there while doing his time in the Air Force. He had good memories of it, I believe, as I never heard him say anything negative about it.

I'm glad your dad had fond memories of Germany. When my dad visited he had the natives trying to kill him. What a buzz kill that was.

When my great great grandfather was fighting down south, the rebels were trying to kill him. What a buzz kill that was….

To quote you... " You really sound stupid"

Fighting for the Union Army sounds stupid? Or were you thinking something else?

[cradleandshoot]

Look. You're not bothering to pay attention to what YOU are writing over time...and it's confusing your fellow posters, including me.

Sometimes you need to relax, and realize that it's YOUR fault because you're all over the place with your thoughts. It's not a big deal...when we're telling you what you're conveying to the reader...and you think we're wrong, just take a second and clarify your points. Problem solved.

So yes, you wrote this.....

Here's what I reasonably wrote to a fan in my original post which he conveniently edited out...talk about playing some "game":
"After I posted that, you did an immediate turn to discuss statues. Obviously that subject requires nuance/discernment and I'm sure we would find agreement in some, perhaps most instances."

But you also wrote this:

Sure, go ahead and qualify historic things all you want but then let people make up their own minds. But simply wipe it out? Like it or not, it's all part and parcel of who we are.

So in the top quote? You tell me that statues require nuance and discernment. And guess what? I AGREE with you on that.

But in the bottom one, you're saying the opposite and tell me NO such nuance is needed.

And you gave me that same sentiment again with your "I made this general post the other day: "History is indelible, good or bad, can't nor should be erased." In a general sense, do you agree? If not, let's stop there because any discussion thereafter will hit the wall.

So be honest....are you REALLY surprised that I'm confused by your words?

If you're sticking to your "Obviously that subject requires nuance/discernment and I'm sure we would find agreement in some, perhaps most instances."? We're good, and understand each other. And I agree with that position, for what its worth.

No longer honor or celebrate is not the same thing as erasing or wiping out history. Saddam Hussein’s statue was toppled and the Berlin Wall came down. Those events are part of history.

Sethi:
“Let the name of Moses be stricken from every book and tablet. Stricken from every pylon and obelisk of Egypt. Let the name of Moses be unheard and unspoken, erased from the memory of man, for all time.…”

Still part of history. Not erased.

Excellent point. Or beating my own drum, not the x rated metaphor I could rightly be accused of having in mind, don’t put the things up.

Small quibble in. That the Berlin Wall was only partially destroyed-I once partied in a private club below ground where the wall still stood around the turn of the Millenium. That was dope.

Yep. I have not been to Germany but would like to visit. My father was stationed there while doing his time in the Air Force. He had good memories of it, I believe, as I never heard him say anything negative about it.

I'm glad your dad had fond memories of Germany. When my dad visited he had the natives trying to kill him. What a buzz kill that was.

When my great great grandfather was fighting down south, the rebels were trying to kill him. What a buzz kill that was….

To quote you... " You really sound stupid"

Fighting for the Union Army sounds stupid? Or were you thinking something else?

My great great Irish uncle also fought with the union army. His rifle hung over the fireplace in my Uncle Bills house. The only thing those useless Irish scum were good for was cannon fodder for the Union. You have any more stupid things to say? Your getting very good at it. Sorry to buzz kill your arse. You did set your arse up for it.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Look. You're not bothering to pay attention to what YOU are writing over time...and it's confusing your fellow posters, including me.

Sometimes you need to relax, and realize that it's YOUR fault because you're all over the place with your thoughts. It's not a big deal...when we're telling you what you're conveying to the reader...and you think we're wrong, just take a second and clarify your points. Problem solved.

So yes, you wrote this.....

Here's what I reasonably wrote to a fan in my original post which he conveniently edited out...talk about playing some "game":
"After I posted that, you did an immediate turn to discuss statues. Obviously that subject requires nuance/discernment and I'm sure we would find agreement in some, perhaps most instances."

But you also wrote this:

Sure, go ahead and qualify historic things all you want but then let people make up their own minds. But simply wipe it out? Like it or not, it's all part and parcel of who we are.

So in the top quote? You tell me that statues require nuance and discernment. And guess what? I AGREE with you on that.

But in the bottom one, you're saying the opposite and tell me NO such nuance is needed.

And you gave me that same sentiment again with your "I made this general post the other day: "History is indelible, good or bad, can't nor should be erased." In a general sense, do you agree? If not, let's stop there because any discussion thereafter will hit the wall.

So be honest....are you REALLY surprised that I'm confused by your words?

If you're sticking to your "Obviously that subject requires nuance/discernment and I'm sure we would find agreement in some, perhaps most instances."? We're good, and understand each other. And I agree with that position, for what its worth.

No longer honor or celebrate is not the same thing as erasing or wiping out history. Saddam Hussein’s statue was toppled and the Berlin Wall came down. Those events are part of history.

Sethi:
“Let the name of Moses be stricken from every book and tablet. Stricken from every pylon and obelisk of Egypt. Let the name of Moses be unheard and unspoken, erased from the memory of man, for all time.…”

Still part of history. Not erased.

Excellent point. Or beating my own drum, not the x rated metaphor I could rightly be accused of having in mind, don’t put the things up.

Small quibble in. That the Berlin Wall was only partially destroyed-I once partied in a private club below ground where the wall still stood around the turn of the Millenium. That was dope.

Yep. I have not been to Germany but would like to visit. My father was stationed there while doing his time in the Air Force. He had good memories of it, I believe, as I never heard him say anything negative about it.

I'm glad your dad had fond memories of Germany. When my dad visited he had the natives trying to kill him. What a buzz kill that was.

When my great great grandfather was fighting down south, the rebels were trying to kill him. What a buzz kill that was….

To quote you... " You really sound stupid"

Fighting for the Union Army sounds stupid? Or were you thinking something else?

My great great Irish uncle also fought with the union army. His rifle hung over the fireplace in my Uncle Bills house. The only thing those useless Irish scum were good for was cannon fodder for the Union. You have any more stupid things to say? Your getting very good at it. Sorry to buzz kill your arse. You did set your arse up for it.

Have a nice night.

[cradleandshoot]

Look. You're not bothering to pay attention to what YOU are writing over time...and it's confusing your fellow posters, including me.

Sometimes you need to relax, and realize that it's YOUR fault because you're all over the place with your thoughts. It's not a big deal...when we're telling you what you're conveying to the reader...and you think we're wrong, just take a second and clarify your points. Problem solved.

So yes, you wrote this.....

Here's what I reasonably wrote to a fan in my original post which he conveniently edited out...talk about playing some "game":
"After I posted that, you did an immediate turn to discuss statues. Obviously that subject requires nuance/discernment and I'm sure we would find agreement in some, perhaps most instances."

But you also wrote this:

Sure, go ahead and qualify historic things all you want but then let people make up their own minds. But simply wipe it out? Like it or not, it's all part and parcel of who we are.

So in the top quote? You tell me that statues require nuance and discernment. And guess what? I AGREE with you on that.

But in the bottom one, you're saying the opposite and tell me NO such nuance is needed.

And you gave me that same sentiment again with your "I made this general post the other day: "History is indelible, good or bad, can't nor should be erased." In a general sense, do you agree? If not, let's stop there because any discussion thereafter will hit the wall.

So be honest....are you REALLY surprised that I'm confused by your words?

If you're sticking to your "Obviously that subject requires nuance/discernment and I'm sure we would find agreement in some, perhaps most instances."? We're good, and understand each other. And I agree with that position, for what its worth.

No longer honor or celebrate is not the same thing as erasing or wiping out history. Saddam Hussein’s statue was toppled and the Berlin Wall came down. Those events are part of history.

Sethi:
“Let the name of Moses be stricken from every book and tablet. Stricken from every pylon and obelisk of Egypt. Let the name of Moses be unheard and unspoken, erased from the memory of man, for all time.…”

Still part of history. Not erased.

Excellent point. Or beating my own drum, not the x rated metaphor I could rightly be accused of having in mind, don’t put the things up.

Small quibble in. That the Berlin Wall was only partially destroyed-I once partied in a private club below ground where the wall still stood around the turn of the Millenium. That was dope.

Yep. I have not been to Germany but would like to visit. My father was stationed there while doing his time in the Air Force. He had good memories of it, I believe, as I never heard him say anything negative about it.

I'm glad your dad had fond memories of Germany. When my dad visited he had the natives trying to kill him. What a buzz kill that was.

When my great great grandfather was fighting down south, the rebels were trying to kill him. What a buzz kill that was….

To quote you... " You really sound stupid"

Fighting for the Union Army sounds stupid? Or were you thinking something else?

My great great Irish uncle also fought with the union army. His rifle hung over the fireplace in my Uncle Bills house. The only thing those useless Irish scum were good for was cannon fodder for the Union. You have any more stupid things to say? Your getting very good at it. Sorry to buzz kill your arse. You did set your arse up for it.

Have a nice night.

You as well.

[Farfromgeneva]

What in the world is going on here?

[MDlaxfan76]

What in the world is going on here?

Someone determined to be angry and spoiling for a fight.

[a fan]

Total BS a fan. I'm not a professional writer. If I've confused you, just say so or ask what was meant... problem solved.

For heaven's sake, tech. I did !! I did PRECISELY that.......

If that's not what you mean to convey, ok...but I"m telling you, that's the message you're sending.

I know you're not a professional writer. This is the medium were working with, my man. NONE of these miscommunications would happen in a pub over a beer.

So can you take this into account, relax, and understand that sometimes you're not the clearest of writers.....which means some of us will misunderstand your points. And when that happens? Relax, and just tell us what you meant. It won't kill you, I promise.

I'm doing my level best here, I promise.....and shocker, I agree with your entirely reasonable views on Statues......

[Farfromgeneva]

What in the world is going on here?

Someone determined to be angry and spoiling for a fight.

I see.

My problem is I sometimes invoke the spirit of Val Kilmer in tombstone and show up for Johnny Ringo when he’s expecting someone else…

[old salt]

Given that this is the 80th Anniversary of the surprise attack by the Japanese on the U.S Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor, I came across a historical example of obvious racism n the U.S. Navy at the time (which was common across all of the military services all of which were segregated by unit which was impossible to do on a Navy ship). I am going to use a 2019 article from Navy Times to illustrate my point about our collective history on race after the Civil War when all slaves were emancipated. My selected excerpts below (many of which may be news to some folks here to this day)

...or may be old news to some. Here's a pic of FF-1091 berthed next to my ship DD-969 in Norfolk. Other times, when we were nested outboard, I crossed over her inport quarterdeck every time I went to/from the pier, under the watchful eye of a large portrait of PO Miller. Also dined in her wardroom under another impressive portrait of PO Miller. Also logged several landings on FF-1091's flight deck when we we sailed together in the same destroyer squadron.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/06/im ... 109108.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Miller_(FF-1091)

In another quirk of history - Carl Vinson, who participated in denying Messman Miller a MoH has an nuclear-powered aircraft carrier named for him currently in the fleet (CVN-70). When that ship is retired from the fleet, it will be replaced by a new ship CVN-81 USS Doris Miller. Karma.

Earlier Karma. Frank Knox was the SecNav who recommended PO Miller for the Navy Cross rather than the MOH.
FF-1091 is a Knox class frigate. That class of ships was named for Sec Knox.

[NattyBohChamps04]

What in the world is going on here?

Someone determined to be angry and spoiling for a fight.

I see.

My problem is I sometimes invoke the spirit of Val Kilmer in tombstone and show up for Johnny Ringo when he’s expecting someone else…

yOu RAnG?

[old salt]

Speaking of Pearl Harbor. It would have never happened had racist FDR not imposed a blockade (an act of war) on Japan as an excuse to round up & inter Japanese Americans.

From behind the NR parwall :

https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/12/ ... -twilight/

The Empire in Twilight
By KEVIN D. WILLIAMSON
December 7, 2021

Eighty years ago today, Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, drawing the U.S. into the war that would make it a global superpower. But no superpower lasts forever.

We all know how this story ends: After years of intense conflict and convulsion, the empire surrenders.

Eighty years ago, President Franklin Roosevelt made a speech to Congress: “Yesterday, December 7th, 1941 — a date which will live in infamy — the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan.” The war that followed would transform the United States, the British Empire, Europe, Japan, and most of the rest of the world.

In the end, the Empire of Japan surrendered. But so did the British Empire, as a practical matter. The moral and economic exhaustion of the British Empire would transform much of the world in the immediate post-war era, with the independence of India and Pakistan, the British exit from Palestine and the establishment of Israel, the retreat from Malaya, the independence of Ghana. Britain, impotent in the face of the Soviet threat, conceded world leadership to the United States, becoming an informal client state of the new superpower.

Under Roosevelt, the United States was itching for a fight. The nation was young — median age: 29 — and it had the mad self-sureness of youth. In spite of the setback of the Great Depression, Roosevelt was confident in his country’s capacities. (Roosevelt never lacked confidence; many of his policies made the Depression deeper and longer than it needed to be, but he remained certain that a man of his breeding and training could solve any problem, given sufficiently autocratic powers.) The credibility of American progressivism is founded in the two world wars, during which the two most aggressively étatiste presidents (Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt) each oversaw a national mobilization of economic resources in a Washington-led crusade that effectively put the whole of American life under political discipline — the state of war is the model of progressive government.

Whereas World War I was rightly experienced as a catastrophe by the victors as well as the vanquished, World War II was, for the United States, an unqualified success on almost every front: military, economic, diplomatic, moral. It was the experience of World War II that elevated science and technical expertise to their current Olympian status and convinced a generation of Americans — not all of them left-wing welfare statists — that the American state could, with the right leadership and sufficient resources, do practically anything it chose. (The waste and corruption of the war-mobilization effort were conveniently forgotten.) Less dramatic displays of American power have partly resuscitated that confidence at times since, notably at the fall of the Berlin Wall and in Operation Desert Storm, which helped to unleash the (delusional) optimism of the 1990s.

But that era is over. The attacks of 9/11, the frustrating failures in Afghanistan and Iraq, the internal disuniting of these United States — these are the result of moral incapacity, not military or economic incapacity. We had more than enough bombs and troops to do whatever we liked in Afghanistan for as long as we liked. As with Iraq, we did not achieve our ultimate end there because we did not understand what it was.

More consequently, we are failing to achieve our objectives vis-à-vis China for the same reason: because we do not know, or cannot agree about, what those objectives actually are. Our “diplomatic boycott” of the upcoming Beijing Olympics is comically typical of American geopolitical action in our time: We are depriving Beijing of the presence of diplomats who had not been expected to attend the Olympics in the first place. Of course, we will still send our athletes: We charge the People’s Republic of China with genocide, but we would never dream of keeping our figure skaters and our luge team at home, because we are sentimental about young athletes. “But they’ve put in so much hard work!” everybody says. Not as much hard work as the Uyghur slaves.

The United States must figure out how to craft for itself a new kind of diplomacy, one that reflects not the country it was in the post-war era but the country it actually is: rich, aging, eager for comfort and luxury, disinclined to fight. Americans, being prideful, naturally bristle at anything that sounds like a tribute payment or protection money, but if you have a great deal of money and no willingness to fight, you had better be honest with yourself about what that means. If we are still a superpower at all, our superpower is money.

An empire is different from a nation in that the supreme imperial power presides over peoples who are fundamentally dissimilar, peoples who are connected not by love or shared aspirations but by commercial and political relationships. Empires are unstable because the corporate aspirations of their constituent peoples are not only different from one another but incompatible with one another — the people in New Delhi and Calcutta could be part of the British Empire or part of the Republic of India, not both. The United States is not an ordinary empire in the sense of the old British Raj, but Washington is the home of an overarching state comprising two great peoples, each of which increasingly sees itself as having interests that are — at best — separate from the other, whose interests, mode of life, and ambitions are at least alien, if not hostile.

These two peoples, being mutually antagonistic at home, find it increasingly difficult to pursue a shared agenda abroad, hence such risible half-measures as the “diplomatic boycott” of the Beijing Olympics. The United States may stagnate, but the country is not going anywhere — not for a while, anyway: We have a great deal of wealth and power and (here I am quoting Jonah Goldberg quoting the great philosopher) “a long tradition of existence.” You might be surprised how far that can carry a state.

But we all know how this story ends: After years of intense conflict and convulsion, the empire surrenders.