All things CoronaVirus

[youthathletics]

Scary stuff as a parent, 14 y/o stroke: https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datar ... 8ECDEA59F6

Curious as to what I’m supposed to be looking at. Just brings me to the search page.

https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/saved/D8/D252F668

[get it to x]

The basic problem with "acquired" immunity - coming from a case of COVID, is that there does not seem to be enough consistent data to predict whether one who has this sort of immunity is actually well or marginally protected (seems to depend on how mild a case one has), nor how long the immunity lasts. Getting the vaccination, even when having a prior case, becomes a useful means of insuring a high level of protection.

Yes, the vaccine emergency approval was pushed as fast as it could be, and some steps that may have been serial in the approval process became more parallel to do that. But the safety record of the vaccines so far has been probably better than can be expected, especially for the m-RNA vaccines. We now have more than a year of good data on safety for a portion of the population, and at least a half year for adults of all ages...

Vaccine hesitancy has built up more recent history for mostly bad reasons - a great example is the association of autism diagnoses with thimerosol containing vaccines, which has been shown to be an extreme case of academic/scientific fraud. Yes, there are side effects of vaccines, and occasionally horrible outcomes - but the risk of these has been repeatedly shown to be far less than the risk of not being vaccinated.

This hits personally, because I have one brother who refuses to get vaccinated because he had a relatively mild case of COVID last March. My 88 year old parents (vaccinated and boosted) were directly told by their family physician to not attend gatherings at his house, where Thanksgiving was initially scheduled to be held. So we now have a split Thanksgiving, with some at my house (including two of his three children), and some at his.

His objections are primarily driven by the current RW media obsession with pushing personal rights to refuse to get vaccinated which seems to be a very cynical ploy to drive up anger at the expense of actual lives. Note that to work for example at Fox News you need to be vaccinated. To attend a live taping - same as well. But the opinion hosts drive the message (backed by a lot of misinterpretations of science) that it is almost honorable to refuse a vaccine. And question its safety with bogus arguments...

My wife (who recently had a valve replacement) and my 33 year old Autistic son (who lives with us) have both been fully vaccinated. I never once tried to talk them out of getting the vaccine, even though there have been numerous reports of people way healthier than me having adverse reactions to the m-RNA vaccines, including death. My wife also never tried to talk me into getting the jab. In addition, the vaccinated can be infected with the virus and become as contagious as a non vaccinated person, so my only benefit would be to perhaps have it somewhat mitigate my symptoms or nominally increase my chances of avoiding the ventilator. My wife is a nurse, and trust me, at the first sign of symptoms, I am getting tested, and if positive, treated.

Anyone who watches pharmaceutical commercials knows the side effects of all of these meds, whether for psoriatic arthritis, MS, cancer treatments, etc. Yet we get no disclaimer on the vaccine, mainly because the government gave them immunity, unlike medical immunity for those that were treated.

Respectfully, your fears about Covid-19 vaccines are irrational and are not based on evidence or data.

The Covid-19 vaccines available in the United States are extremely safe and effective.

Covid-19 is not just a “nasty respiratory virus,” it is the most dangerous respiratory virus seen in over a century. It has killed over 5 million people globally and nearly 800,000 in the U.S. alone. That is despite vigorous mitigation efforts and modern medical technology.

Stop acting irrationally and get vaccinated. It isn’t a matter of personal choice. It’s a civic duty, something that is not appreciated enough these days.

Again, I say this respectfully.

DocBarrister

So your 800,000 number looks big, but keep in mind half of it occurred after the introduction of the vaccines. Now we're being told the effectiveness of the vaccine wanes after 5-6 months, necessitating a booster. If for some reason the effectiveness wanes again are we looking at an endless parade of booster shots? And, it is a matter of personal choice, Commissar. My physician told me just last week he respected my choice and, while he advised me to get the shot, promised he would not treat me any differently without it. I practice safe protocols, probably wash my hands 15 times every day, avoid crowds and take C, D and Zinc every day. BTW, .9977% of the population has survived Covid, if you don't count suicides and drug overdoses. Spanish flu was .9936, and would have been much lower if troops were not confined to ships coming back from WWI.

Lastly, how do you explain this?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN26K0AI

Could part of it be anti malarial/anti parasitic drugs? Drugs that have no patent? Cui Bono?

[Typical Lax Dad]

The basic problem with "acquired" immunity - coming from a case of COVID, is that there does not seem to be enough consistent data to predict whether one who has this sort of immunity is actually well or marginally protected (seems to depend on how mild a case one has), nor how long the immunity lasts. Getting the vaccination, even when having a prior case, becomes a useful means of insuring a high level of protection.

Yes, the vaccine emergency approval was pushed as fast as it could be, and some steps that may have been serial in the approval process became more parallel to do that. But the safety record of the vaccines so far has been probably better than can be expected, especially for the m-RNA vaccines. We now have more than a year of good data on safety for a portion of the population, and at least a half year for adults of all ages...

Vaccine hesitancy has built up more recent history for mostly bad reasons - a great example is the association of autism diagnoses with thimerosol containing vaccines, which has been shown to be an extreme case of academic/scientific fraud. Yes, there are side effects of vaccines, and occasionally horrible outcomes - but the risk of these has been repeatedly shown to be far less than the risk of not being vaccinated.

This hits personally, because I have one brother who refuses to get vaccinated because he had a relatively mild case of COVID last March. My 88 year old parents (vaccinated and boosted) were directly told by their family physician to not attend gatherings at his house, where Thanksgiving was initially scheduled to be held. So we now have a split Thanksgiving, with some at my house (including two of his three children), and some at his.

His objections are primarily driven by the current RW media obsession with pushing personal rights to refuse to get vaccinated which seems to be a very cynical ploy to drive up anger at the expense of actual lives. Note that to work for example at Fox News you need to be vaccinated. To attend a live taping - same as well. But the opinion hosts drive the message (backed by a lot of misinterpretations of science) that it is almost honorable to refuse a vaccine. And question its safety with bogus arguments...

My wife (who recently had a valve replacement) and my 33 year old Autistic son (who lives with us) have both been fully vaccinated. I never once tried to talk them out of getting the vaccine, even though there have been numerous reports of people way healthier than me having adverse reactions to the m-RNA vaccines, including death. My wife also never tried to talk me into getting the jab. In addition, the vaccinated can be infected with the virus and become as contagious as a non vaccinated person, so my only benefit would be to perhaps have it somewhat mitigate my symptoms or nominally increase my chances of avoiding the ventilator. My wife is a nurse, and trust me, at the first sign of symptoms, I am getting tested, and if positive, treated.

Anyone who watches pharmaceutical commercials knows the side effects of all of these meds, whether for psoriatic arthritis, MS, cancer treatments, etc. Yet we get no disclaimer on the vaccine, mainly because the government gave them immunity, unlike medical immunity for those that were treated.

Respectfully, your fears about Covid-19 vaccines are irrational and are not based on evidence or data.

The Covid-19 vaccines available in the United States are extremely safe and effective.

Covid-19 is not just a “nasty respiratory virus,” it is the most dangerous respiratory virus seen in over a century. It has killed over 5 million people globally and nearly 800,000 in the U.S. alone. That is despite vigorous mitigation efforts and modern medical technology.

Stop acting irrationally and get vaccinated. It isn’t a matter of personal choice. It’s a civic duty, something that is not appreciated enough these days.

Again, I say this respectfully.

DocBarrister

So your 800,000 number looks big, but keep in mind half of it occurred after the introduction of the vaccines. Now we're being told the effectiveness of the vaccine wanes after 5-6 months, necessitating a booster. If for some reason the effectiveness wanes again are we looking at an endless parade of booster shots? And, it is a matter of personal choice, Commissar. My physician told me just last week he respected my choice and, while he advised me to get the shot, promised he would not treat me any differently without it. I practice safe protocols, probably wash my hands 15 times every day, avoid crowds and take C, D and Zinc every day. BTW, .9977% of the population has survived Covid, if you don't count suicides and drug overdoses. Spanish flu was .9936, and would have been much lower if troops were not confined to ships coming back from WWI.

Lastly, how do you explain this?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN26K0AI

Could part of it be anti malarial/anti parasitic drugs? Drugs that have no patent? Cui Bono?

2% of covid cases have resulted in death. 98% of the people that contracted COVID-19 have survived.

[Farfromgeneva]

The basic problem with "acquired" immunity - coming from a case of COVID, is that there does not seem to be enough consistent data to predict whether one who has this sort of immunity is actually well or marginally protected (seems to depend on how mild a case one has), nor how long the immunity lasts. Getting the vaccination, even when having a prior case, becomes a useful means of insuring a high level of protection.

Yes, the vaccine emergency approval was pushed as fast as it could be, and some steps that may have been serial in the approval process became more parallel to do that. But the safety record of the vaccines so far has been probably better than can be expected, especially for the m-RNA vaccines. We now have more than a year of good data on safety for a portion of the population, and at least a half year for adults of all ages...

Vaccine hesitancy has built up more recent history for mostly bad reasons - a great example is the association of autism diagnoses with thimerosol containing vaccines, which has been shown to be an extreme case of academic/scientific fraud. Yes, there are side effects of vaccines, and occasionally horrible outcomes - but the risk of these has been repeatedly shown to be far less than the risk of not being vaccinated.

This hits personally, because I have one brother who refuses to get vaccinated because he had a relatively mild case of COVID last March. My 88 year old parents (vaccinated and boosted) were directly told by their family physician to not attend gatherings at his house, where Thanksgiving was initially scheduled to be held. So we now have a split Thanksgiving, with some at my house (including two of his three children), and some at his.

His objections are primarily driven by the current RW media obsession with pushing personal rights to refuse to get vaccinated which seems to be a very cynical ploy to drive up anger at the expense of actual lives. Note that to work for example at Fox News you need to be vaccinated. To attend a live taping - same as well. But the opinion hosts drive the message (backed by a lot of misinterpretations of science) that it is almost honorable to refuse a vaccine. And question its safety with bogus arguments...

My wife (who recently had a valve replacement) and my 33 year old Autistic son (who lives with us) have both been fully vaccinated. I never once tried to talk them out of getting the vaccine, even though there have been numerous reports of people way healthier than me having adverse reactions to the m-RNA vaccines, including death. My wife also never tried to talk me into getting the jab. In addition, the vaccinated can be infected with the virus and become as contagious as a non vaccinated person, so my only benefit would be to perhaps have it somewhat mitigate my symptoms or nominally increase my chances of avoiding the ventilator. My wife is a nurse, and trust me, at the first sign of symptoms, I am getting tested, and if positive, treated.

Anyone who watches pharmaceutical commercials knows the side effects of all of these meds, whether for psoriatic arthritis, MS, cancer treatments, etc. Yet we get no disclaimer on the vaccine, mainly because the government gave them immunity, unlike medical immunity for those that were treated.

Respectfully, your fears about Covid-19 vaccines are irrational and are not based on evidence or data.

The Covid-19 vaccines available in the United States are extremely safe and effective.

Covid-19 is not just a “nasty respiratory virus,” it is the most dangerous respiratory virus seen in over a century. It has killed over 5 million people globally and nearly 800,000 in the U.S. alone. That is despite vigorous mitigation efforts and modern medical technology.

Stop acting irrationally and get vaccinated. It isn’t a matter of personal choice. It’s a civic duty, something that is not appreciated enough these days.

Again, I say this respectfully.

DocBarrister

So your 800,000 number looks big, but keep in mind half of it occurred after the introduction of the vaccines. Now we're being told the effectiveness of the vaccine wanes after 5-6 months, necessitating a booster. If for some reason the effectiveness wanes again are we looking at an endless parade of booster shots? And, it is a matter of personal choice, Commissar. My physician told me just last week he respected my choice and, while he advised me to get the shot, promised he would not treat me any differently without it. I practice safe protocols, probably wash my hands 15 times every day, avoid crowds and take C, D and Zinc every day. BTW, .9977% of the population has survived Covid, if you don't count suicides and drug overdoses. Spanish flu was .9936, and would have been much lower if troops were not confined to ships coming back from WWI.

Lastly, how do you explain this?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN26K0AI

Could part of it be anti malarial/anti parasitic drugs? Drugs that have no patent? Cui Bono?

Well would you be ok with longer and more broad shutdowns of our country if we chose to take it slow and not attempt to take faster action (like is demanded now of the president with respect to supply chain and oil prices as it was with the former president on a viral, airborne, contagious & known to be deadly health crisis)?

So sure, take it slow but there’s a collective responsibility to not spread and spreadable problem. It’s one or the other and many (certainly not all but clearly the majority of the vaxx opposition) were simultaneously upset about the restrictions in the country.

It’s an either or. Arguing in hindsight though definitely needs to address that incongruity.

[Typical Lax Dad]

The basic problem with "acquired" immunity - coming from a case of COVID, is that there does not seem to be enough consistent data to predict whether one who has this sort of immunity is actually well or marginally protected (seems to depend on how mild a case one has), nor how long the immunity lasts. Getting the vaccination, even when having a prior case, becomes a useful means of insuring a high level of protection.

Yes, the vaccine emergency approval was pushed as fast as it could be, and some steps that may have been serial in the approval process became more parallel to do that. But the safety record of the vaccines so far has been probably better than can be expected, especially for the m-RNA vaccines. We now have more than a year of good data on safety for a portion of the population, and at least a half year for adults of all ages...

Vaccine hesitancy has built up more recent history for mostly bad reasons - a great example is the association of autism diagnoses with thimerosol containing vaccines, which has been shown to be an extreme case of academic/scientific fraud. Yes, there are side effects of vaccines, and occasionally horrible outcomes - but the risk of these has been repeatedly shown to be far less than the risk of not being vaccinated.

This hits personally, because I have one brother who refuses to get vaccinated because he had a relatively mild case of COVID last March. My 88 year old parents (vaccinated and boosted) were directly told by their family physician to not attend gatherings at his house, where Thanksgiving was initially scheduled to be held. So we now have a split Thanksgiving, with some at my house (including two of his three children), and some at his.

His objections are primarily driven by the current RW media obsession with pushing personal rights to refuse to get vaccinated which seems to be a very cynical ploy to drive up anger at the expense of actual lives. Note that to work for example at Fox News you need to be vaccinated. To attend a live taping - same as well. But the opinion hosts drive the message (backed by a lot of misinterpretations of science) that it is almost honorable to refuse a vaccine. And question its safety with bogus arguments...

My wife (who recently had a valve replacement) and my 33 year old Autistic son (who lives with us) have both been fully vaccinated. I never once tried to talk them out of getting the vaccine, even though there have been numerous reports of people way healthier than me having adverse reactions to the m-RNA vaccines, including death. My wife also never tried to talk me into getting the jab. In addition, the vaccinated can be infected with the virus and become as contagious as a non vaccinated person, so my only benefit would be to perhaps have it somewhat mitigate my symptoms or nominally increase my chances of avoiding the ventilator. My wife is a nurse, and trust me, at the first sign of symptoms, I am getting tested, and if positive, treated.

Anyone who watches pharmaceutical commercials knows the side effects of all of these meds, whether for psoriatic arthritis, MS, cancer treatments, etc. Yet we get no disclaimer on the vaccine, mainly because the government gave them immunity, unlike medical immunity for those that were treated.

Respectfully, your fears about Covid-19 vaccines are irrational and are not based on evidence or data.

The Covid-19 vaccines available in the United States are extremely safe and effective.

Covid-19 is not just a “nasty respiratory virus,” it is the most dangerous respiratory virus seen in over a century. It has killed over 5 million people globally and nearly 800,000 in the U.S. alone. That is despite vigorous mitigation efforts and modern medical technology.

Stop acting irrationally and get vaccinated. It isn’t a matter of personal choice. It’s a civic duty, something that is not appreciated enough these days.

Again, I say this respectfully.

DocBarrister

So your 800,000 number looks big, but keep in mind half of it occurred after the introduction of the vaccines. Now we're being told the effectiveness of the vaccine wanes after 5-6 months, necessitating a booster. If for some reason the effectiveness wanes again are we looking at an endless parade of booster shots? And, it is a matter of personal choice, Commissar. My physician told me just last week he respected my choice and, while he advised me to get the shot, promised he would not treat me any differently without it. I practice safe protocols, probably wash my hands 15 times every day, avoid crowds and take C, D and Zinc every day. BTW, .9977% of the population has survived Covid, if you don't count suicides and drug overdoses. Spanish flu was .9936, and would have been much lower if troops were not confined to ships coming back from WWI.

Lastly, how do you explain this?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN26K0AI

Could part of it be anti malarial/anti parasitic drugs? Drugs that have no patent? Cui Bono?

Well would you be ok with longer and more broad shutdowns of our country if we chose to take it slow and not attempt to take faster action (like is demanded now of the president with respect to supply chain and oil prices as it was with the former president on a viral, airborne, contagious & known to be deadly health crisis)?

So sure, take it slow but there’s a collective responsibility to not spread and spreadable problem. It’s one or the other and many (certainly not all but clearly the majority of the vaxx opposition) were simultaneously upset about the restrictions in the country.

It’s an either or. Arguing in hindsight though definitely needs to address that incongruity.

African countries death rate per covid case is worse than ours. 2.4% of covid cases have resulted in death.

https://www.afro.who.int/health-topics/ ... s-covid-19

I wonder what percentage of Americans survive cancer each year?

[kramerica.inc]

African countries death rate per covid case is worse than ours. 2.4% of covid cases have resulted in death.

https://www.afro.who.int/health-topics/ ... s-covid-19

Not necessarily a fair statistic or measure. Slim to no quality healthcare in those nations. Many are 3rd world countries.

[Typical Lax Dad]

African countries death rate per covid case is worse than ours. 2.4% of covid cases have resulted in death.

https://www.afro.who.int/health-topics/ ... s-covid-19

Not necessarily a fair statistic or measure. Slim to no quality healthcare in those nations. Many are 3rd world countries.

I was responding with to a post that seemed to suggest that African countries have fared well because of anti-malaria drugs.

[Farfromgeneva]

African countries death rate per covid case is worse than ours. 2.4% of covid cases have resulted in death.

https://www.afro.who.int/health-topics/ ... s-covid-19

Not necessarily a fair statistic or measure. Slim to no quality healthcare in those nations. Many are 3rd world countries.

I was responding with to a post that seemed to suggest that African countries have fared well because of anti-malaria drugs.

Was that meant for me or get it? I saw myself quoted and assumed it was sarcasm.

[kramerica.inc]

African countries death rate per covid case is worse than ours. 2.4% of covid cases have resulted in death.

https://www.afro.who.int/health-topics/ ... s-covid-19

Not necessarily a fair statistic or measure. Slim to no quality healthcare in those nations. Many are 3rd world countries.

I was responding with to a post that seemed to suggest that African countries have fared well because of anti-malaria drugs.

I know. His point is likely untrue. And given the disparity in the quality of healthcare between the US and African nations, your rebuttal is comparing apples to oranges.

[get it to x]

The basic problem with "acquired" immunity - coming from a case of COVID, is that there does not seem to be enough consistent data to predict whether one who has this sort of immunity is actually well or marginally protected (seems to depend on how mild a case one has), nor how long the immunity lasts. Getting the vaccination, even when having a prior case, becomes a useful means of insuring a high level of protection.

Yes, the vaccine emergency approval was pushed as fast as it could be, and some steps that may have been serial in the approval process became more parallel to do that. But the safety record of the vaccines so far has been probably better than can be expected, especially for the m-RNA vaccines. We now have more than a year of good data on safety for a portion of the population, and at least a half year for adults of all ages...

Vaccine hesitancy has built up more recent history for mostly bad reasons - a great example is the association of autism diagnoses with thimerosol containing vaccines, which has been shown to be an extreme case of academic/scientific fraud. Yes, there are side effects of vaccines, and occasionally horrible outcomes - but the risk of these has been repeatedly shown to be far less than the risk of not being vaccinated.

This hits personally, because I have one brother who refuses to get vaccinated because he had a relatively mild case of COVID last March. My 88 year old parents (vaccinated and boosted) were directly told by their family physician to not attend gatherings at his house, where Thanksgiving was initially scheduled to be held. So we now have a split Thanksgiving, with some at my house (including two of his three children), and some at his.

His objections are primarily driven by the current RW media obsession with pushing personal rights to refuse to get vaccinated which seems to be a very cynical ploy to drive up anger at the expense of actual lives. Note that to work for example at Fox News you need to be vaccinated. To attend a live taping - same as well. But the opinion hosts drive the message (backed by a lot of misinterpretations of science) that it is almost honorable to refuse a vaccine. And question its safety with bogus arguments...

My wife (who recently had a valve replacement) and my 33 year old Autistic son (who lives with us) have both been fully vaccinated. I never once tried to talk them out of getting the vaccine, even though there have been numerous reports of people way healthier than me having adverse reactions to the m-RNA vaccines, including death. My wife also never tried to talk me into getting the jab. In addition, the vaccinated can be infected with the virus and become as contagious as a non vaccinated person, so my only benefit would be to perhaps have it somewhat mitigate my symptoms or nominally increase my chances of avoiding the ventilator. My wife is a nurse, and trust me, at the first sign of symptoms, I am getting tested, and if positive, treated.

Anyone who watches pharmaceutical commercials knows the side effects of all of these meds, whether for psoriatic arthritis, MS, cancer treatments, etc. Yet we get no disclaimer on the vaccine, mainly because the government gave them immunity, unlike medical immunity for those that were treated.

Respectfully, your fears about Covid-19 vaccines are irrational and are not based on evidence or data.

The Covid-19 vaccines available in the United States are extremely safe and effective.

Covid-19 is not just a “nasty respiratory virus,” it is the most dangerous respiratory virus seen in over a century. It has killed over 5 million people globally and nearly 800,000 in the U.S. alone. That is despite vigorous mitigation efforts and modern medical technology.

Stop acting irrationally and get vaccinated. It isn’t a matter of personal choice. It’s a civic duty, something that is not appreciated enough these days.

Again, I say this respectfully.

DocBarrister

So your 800,000 number looks big, but keep in mind half of it occurred after the introduction of the vaccines. Now we're being told the effectiveness of the vaccine wanes after 5-6 months, necessitating a booster. If for some reason the effectiveness wanes again are we looking at an endless parade of booster shots? And, it is a matter of personal choice, Commissar. My physician told me just last week he respected my choice and, while he advised me to get the shot, promised he would not treat me any differently without it. I practice safe protocols, probably wash my hands 15 times every day, avoid crowds and take C, D and Zinc every day. BTW, .9977% of the population has survived Covid, if you don't count suicides and drug overdoses. Spanish flu was .9936, and would have been much lower if troops were not confined to ships coming back from WWI.

Lastly, how do you explain this?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN26K0AI

Could part of it be anti malarial/anti parasitic drugs? Drugs that have no patent? Cui Bono?

Well would you be ok with longer and more broad shutdowns of our country if we chose to take it slow and not attempt to take faster action (like is demanded now of the president with respect to supply chain and oil prices as it was with the former president on a viral, airborne, contagious & known to be deadly health crisis)?

So sure, take it slow but there’s a collective responsibility to not spread and spreadable problem. It’s one or the other and many (certainly not all but clearly the majority of the vaxx opposition) were simultaneously upset about the restrictions in the country.

It’s an either or. Arguing in hindsight though definitely needs to address that incongruity.

Sweden has roughly 68% vaccinated and their average deaths per day is 4, without any serious lockdowns. Why? Perhaps they are a healthy lot, combined with the fact that they allowed the virus to spread amount the young and healthy while focusing on their vulnerable population of old and infirm. It isn't vaccines or lockdowns. There were more than two choices. Some would even argue the choices made by our leaders were population control vs. public health. I think there is at least a grain of truth in that view. Many of our supposed "betters", even some on this forum, are immune to hearing anything that runs contrary to the prevailing groupthink.

[Typical Lax Dad]

African countries death rate per covid case is worse than ours. 2.4% of covid cases have resulted in death.

https://www.afro.who.int/health-topics/ ... s-covid-19

Not necessarily a fair statistic or measure. Slim to no quality healthcare in those nations. Many are 3rd world countries.

I was responding with to a post that seemed to suggest that African countries have fared well because of anti-malaria drugs.

I know. His point is likely untrue. And given the disparity in the quality of healthcare between the US and African nations, your rebuttal is comparing apples to oranges.

The guy implied a comparison to Africa. I just responded. I was hoping to find an excess death table but couldn’t. However, we are not that far removed from the Congo.

[Typical Lax Dad]

The basic problem with "acquired" immunity - coming from a case of COVID, is that there does not seem to be enough consistent data to predict whether one who has this sort of immunity is actually well or marginally protected (seems to depend on how mild a case one has), nor how long the immunity lasts. Getting the vaccination, even when having a prior case, becomes a useful means of insuring a high level of protection.

Yes, the vaccine emergency approval was pushed as fast as it could be, and some steps that may have been serial in the approval process became more parallel to do that. But the safety record of the vaccines so far has been probably better than can be expected, especially for the m-RNA vaccines. We now have more than a year of good data on safety for a portion of the population, and at least a half year for adults of all ages...

Vaccine hesitancy has built up more recent history for mostly bad reasons - a great example is the association of autism diagnoses with thimerosol containing vaccines, which has been shown to be an extreme case of academic/scientific fraud. Yes, there are side effects of vaccines, and occasionally horrible outcomes - but the risk of these has been repeatedly shown to be far less than the risk of not being vaccinated.

This hits personally, because I have one brother who refuses to get vaccinated because he had a relatively mild case of COVID last March. My 88 year old parents (vaccinated and boosted) were directly told by their family physician to not attend gatherings at his house, where Thanksgiving was initially scheduled to be held. So we now have a split Thanksgiving, with some at my house (including two of his three children), and some at his.

His objections are primarily driven by the current RW media obsession with pushing personal rights to refuse to get vaccinated which seems to be a very cynical ploy to drive up anger at the expense of actual lives. Note that to work for example at Fox News you need to be vaccinated. To attend a live taping - same as well. But the opinion hosts drive the message (backed by a lot of misinterpretations of science) that it is almost honorable to refuse a vaccine. And question its safety with bogus arguments...

My wife (who recently had a valve replacement) and my 33 year old Autistic son (who lives with us) have both been fully vaccinated. I never once tried to talk them out of getting the vaccine, even though there have been numerous reports of people way healthier than me having adverse reactions to the m-RNA vaccines, including death. My wife also never tried to talk me into getting the jab. In addition, the vaccinated can be infected with the virus and become as contagious as a non vaccinated person, so my only benefit would be to perhaps have it somewhat mitigate my symptoms or nominally increase my chances of avoiding the ventilator. My wife is a nurse, and trust me, at the first sign of symptoms, I am getting tested, and if positive, treated.

Anyone who watches pharmaceutical commercials knows the side effects of all of these meds, whether for psoriatic arthritis, MS, cancer treatments, etc. Yet we get no disclaimer on the vaccine, mainly because the government gave them immunity, unlike medical immunity for those that were treated.

Respectfully, your fears about Covid-19 vaccines are irrational and are not based on evidence or data.

The Covid-19 vaccines available in the United States are extremely safe and effective.

Covid-19 is not just a “nasty respiratory virus,” it is the most dangerous respiratory virus seen in over a century. It has killed over 5 million people globally and nearly 800,000 in the U.S. alone. That is despite vigorous mitigation efforts and modern medical technology.

Stop acting irrationally and get vaccinated. It isn’t a matter of personal choice. It’s a civic duty, something that is not appreciated enough these days.

Again, I say this respectfully.

DocBarrister

So your 800,000 number looks big, but keep in mind half of it occurred after the introduction of the vaccines. Now we're being told the effectiveness of the vaccine wanes after 5-6 months, necessitating a booster. If for some reason the effectiveness wanes again are we looking at an endless parade of booster shots? And, it is a matter of personal choice, Commissar. My physician told me just last week he respected my choice and, while he advised me to get the shot, promised he would not treat me any differently without it. I practice safe protocols, probably wash my hands 15 times every day, avoid crowds and take C, D and Zinc every day. BTW, .9977% of the population has survived Covid, if you don't count suicides and drug overdoses. Spanish flu was .9936, and would have been much lower if troops were not confined to ships coming back from WWI.

Lastly, how do you explain this?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN26K0AI

Could part of it be anti malarial/anti parasitic drugs? Drugs that have no patent? Cui Bono?

Well would you be ok with longer and more broad shutdowns of our country if we chose to take it slow and not attempt to take faster action (like is demanded now of the president with respect to supply chain and oil prices as it was with the former president on a viral, airborne, contagious & known to be deadly health crisis)?

So sure, take it slow but there’s a collective responsibility to not spread and spreadable problem. It’s one or the other and many (certainly not all but clearly the majority of the vaxx opposition) were simultaneously upset about the restrictions in the country.

It’s an either or. Arguing in hindsight though definitely needs to address that incongruity.

Sweden has roughly 68% vaccinated and their average deaths per day is 4, without any serious lockdowns. Why? Perhaps they are a healthy lot, combined with the fact that they allowed the virus to spread amount the young and healthy while focusing on their vulnerable population of old and infirm. It isn't vaccines or lockdowns. There were more than two choices. Some would even argue the choices made by our leaders were population control vs. public health. I think there is at least a grain of truth in that view. Many of our supposed "betters", even some on this forum, are immune to hearing anything that runs contrary to the prevailing groupthink.

They fared much poorer than their two neighboring countries…see Kramerica’s post regarding apples and oranges.

[kramerica.inc]

African countries death rate per covid case is worse than ours. 2.4% of covid cases have resulted in death.

https://www.afro.who.int/health-topics/ ... s-covid-19

Not necessarily a fair statistic or measure. Slim to no quality healthcare in those nations. Many are 3rd world countries.

I was responding with to a post that seemed to suggest that African countries have fared well because of anti-malaria drugs.

I know. His point is likely untrue. And given the disparity in the quality of healthcare between the US and African nations, your rebuttal is comparing apples to oranges.

The guy implied a comparison to Africa. I just responded. I was hoping to find an excess death table but couldn’t. However, we are not that far removed from the Congo.

That is certainly true.

At the job front, our company's deadline for meeting the original vaccine mandate just passed (if you were previously unvaccinated). Our company currently sits at about 45% vaccinated and 30% exempt. So we have about 25% that were either willing to not comply and potentially lose their jobs, or assumed we'd have to extend our deadline due to the federal extension and are biding their time.

We just let them know that we would be extending the deadline. Will be interesting to see where we can get by January 4.

[Typical Lax Dad]

African countries death rate per covid case is worse than ours. 2.4% of covid cases have resulted in death.

https://www.afro.who.int/health-topics/ ... s-covid-19

Not necessarily a fair statistic or measure. Slim to no quality healthcare in those nations. Many are 3rd world countries.

I was responding with to a post that seemed to suggest that African countries have fared well because of anti-malaria drugs.

I know. His point is likely untrue. And given the disparity in the quality of healthcare between the US and African nations, your rebuttal is comparing apples to oranges.

The guy implied a comparison to Africa. I just responded. I was hoping to find an excess death table but couldn’t. However, we are not that far removed from the Congo.

That is certainly true.

At the job front, our company's deadline for meeting the original vaccine mandate just passed (if you were previously unvaccinated). Our company currently sits at about 45% vaccinated and 30% exempt. So we have about 25% that were either willing to not comply and potentially lose their jobs, or assumed we'd have to extend our deadline due to the federal extension and are biding their time.

We just let them know that we would be extending the deadline. Will be interesting to see where we can get by January 4.

30% exempt sticks out like a sore thumb. Anyway, good luck. hopefully those unvaccinated aren’t living their lives as if they are vaccinated….endangering unsuspecting people.

[DocBarrister]

The basic problem with "acquired" immunity - coming from a case of COVID, is that there does not seem to be enough consistent data to predict whether one who has this sort of immunity is actually well or marginally protected (seems to depend on how mild a case one has), nor how long the immunity lasts. Getting the vaccination, even when having a prior case, becomes a useful means of insuring a high level of protection.

Yes, the vaccine emergency approval was pushed as fast as it could be, and some steps that may have been serial in the approval process became more parallel to do that. But the safety record of the vaccines so far has been probably better than can be expected, especially for the m-RNA vaccines. We now have more than a year of good data on safety for a portion of the population, and at least a half year for adults of all ages...

Vaccine hesitancy has built up more recent history for mostly bad reasons - a great example is the association of autism diagnoses with thimerosol containing vaccines, which has been shown to be an extreme case of academic/scientific fraud. Yes, there are side effects of vaccines, and occasionally horrible outcomes - but the risk of these has been repeatedly shown to be far less than the risk of not being vaccinated.

This hits personally, because I have one brother who refuses to get vaccinated because he had a relatively mild case of COVID last March. My 88 year old parents (vaccinated and boosted) were directly told by their family physician to not attend gatherings at his house, where Thanksgiving was initially scheduled to be held. So we now have a split Thanksgiving, with some at my house (including two of his three children), and some at his.

His objections are primarily driven by the current RW media obsession with pushing personal rights to refuse to get vaccinated which seems to be a very cynical ploy to drive up anger at the expense of actual lives. Note that to work for example at Fox News you need to be vaccinated. To attend a live taping - same as well. But the opinion hosts drive the message (backed by a lot of misinterpretations of science) that it is almost honorable to refuse a vaccine. And question its safety with bogus arguments...

My wife (who recently had a valve replacement) and my 33 year old Autistic son (who lives with us) have both been fully vaccinated. I never once tried to talk them out of getting the vaccine, even though there have been numerous reports of people way healthier than me having adverse reactions to the m-RNA vaccines, including death. My wife also never tried to talk me into getting the jab. In addition, the vaccinated can be infected with the virus and become as contagious as a non vaccinated person, so my only benefit would be to perhaps have it somewhat mitigate my symptoms or nominally increase my chances of avoiding the ventilator. My wife is a nurse, and trust me, at the first sign of symptoms, I am getting tested, and if positive, treated.

Anyone who watches pharmaceutical commercials knows the side effects of all of these meds, whether for psoriatic arthritis, MS, cancer treatments, etc. Yet we get no disclaimer on the vaccine, mainly because the government gave them immunity, unlike medical immunity for those that were treated.

Respectfully, your fears about Covid-19 vaccines are irrational and are not based on evidence or data.

The Covid-19 vaccines available in the United States are extremely safe and effective.

Covid-19 is not just a “nasty respiratory virus,” it is the most dangerous respiratory virus seen in over a century. It has killed over 5 million people globally and nearly 800,000 in the U.S. alone. That is despite vigorous mitigation efforts and modern medical technology.

Stop acting irrationally and get vaccinated. It isn’t a matter of personal choice. It’s a civic duty, something that is not appreciated enough these days.

Again, I say this respectfully.

DocBarrister

So your 800,000 number looks big, but keep in mind half of it occurred after the introduction of the vaccines. Now we're being told the effectiveness of the vaccine wanes after 5-6 months, necessitating a booster. If for some reason the effectiveness wanes again are we looking at an endless parade of booster shots? And, it is a matter of personal choice, Commissar. My physician told me just last week he respected my choice and, while he advised me to get the shot, promised he would not treat me any differently without it. I practice safe protocols, probably wash my hands 15 times every day, avoid crowds and take C, D and Zinc every day. BTW, .9977% of the population has survived Covid, if you don't count suicides and drug overdoses. Spanish flu was .9936, and would have been much lower if troops were not confined to ships coming back from WWI.

Lastly, how do you explain this?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN26K0AI

Could part of it be anti malarial/anti parasitic drugs? Drugs that have no patent? Cui Bono?

No, Covid-19 deaths are almost certainly being undercounted in Africa. They also have a relatively younger population and apparently some consideration is being given to the effects of an anti-tuberculosis vaccine.

South Africa saw some 17,000 extra deaths from natural causes between early May and mid-July, 59% more than would normally be expected, according to a July report from the South African Medical Research Council. That suggests the death toll from COVID-19 could be significantly higher than the official figure, currently over 16,000, researchers say. Even so, there is wide agreement that COVID-19 fatality rates have not so far been as bad as predicted.

Why? Scientists and public health experts cite a number of possible factors, including the continent’s youthful population and lessons learned from previous disease outbreaks. African governments also had precious time to prepare due to the relative isolation of many of their citizens from airports and other places where they could come into contact with global travellers.

Some scientists also are exploring the possibility that a tuberculosis vaccine routinely given to children in many African countries might be helping reduce deaths from COVID-19.

Again, your actions are being driven by an irrational fear, not facts, data, or accurate information. Do everyone you care about a favor and get vaccinated.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

The basic problem with "acquired" immunity - coming from a case of COVID, is that there does not seem to be enough consistent data to predict whether one who has this sort of immunity is actually well or marginally protected (seems to depend on how mild a case one has), nor how long the immunity lasts. Getting the vaccination, even when having a prior case, becomes a useful means of insuring a high level of protection.

Yes, the vaccine emergency approval was pushed as fast as it could be, and some steps that may have been serial in the approval process became more parallel to do that. But the safety record of the vaccines so far has been probably better than can be expected, especially for the m-RNA vaccines. We now have more than a year of good data on safety for a portion of the population, and at least a half year for adults of all ages...

Vaccine hesitancy has built up more recent history for mostly bad reasons - a great example is the association of autism diagnoses with thimerosol containing vaccines, which has been shown to be an extreme case of academic/scientific fraud. Yes, there are side effects of vaccines, and occasionally horrible outcomes - but the risk of these has been repeatedly shown to be far less than the risk of not being vaccinated.

This hits personally, because I have one brother who refuses to get vaccinated because he had a relatively mild case of COVID last March. My 88 year old parents (vaccinated and boosted) were directly told by their family physician to not attend gatherings at his house, where Thanksgiving was initially scheduled to be held. So we now have a split Thanksgiving, with some at my house (including two of his three children), and some at his.

His objections are primarily driven by the current RW media obsession with pushing personal rights to refuse to get vaccinated which seems to be a very cynical ploy to drive up anger at the expense of actual lives. Note that to work for example at Fox News you need to be vaccinated. To attend a live taping - same as well. But the opinion hosts drive the message (backed by a lot of misinterpretations of science) that it is almost honorable to refuse a vaccine. And question its safety with bogus arguments...

My wife (who recently had a valve replacement) and my 33 year old Autistic son (who lives with us) have both been fully vaccinated. I never once tried to talk them out of getting the vaccine, even though there have been numerous reports of people way healthier than me having adverse reactions to the m-RNA vaccines, including death. My wife also never tried to talk me into getting the jab. In addition, the vaccinated can be infected with the virus and become as contagious as a non vaccinated person, so my only benefit would be to perhaps have it somewhat mitigate my symptoms or nominally increase my chances of avoiding the ventilator. My wife is a nurse, and trust me, at the first sign of symptoms, I am getting tested, and if positive, treated.

Anyone who watches pharmaceutical commercials knows the side effects of all of these meds, whether for psoriatic arthritis, MS, cancer treatments, etc. Yet we get no disclaimer on the vaccine, mainly because the government gave them immunity, unlike medical immunity for those that were treated.

Respectfully, your fears about Covid-19 vaccines are irrational and are not based on evidence or data.

The Covid-19 vaccines available in the United States are extremely safe and effective.

Covid-19 is not just a “nasty respiratory virus,” it is the most dangerous respiratory virus seen in over a century. It has killed over 5 million people globally and nearly 800,000 in the U.S. alone. That is despite vigorous mitigation efforts and modern medical technology.

Stop acting irrationally and get vaccinated. It isn’t a matter of personal choice. It’s a civic duty, something that is not appreciated enough these days.

Again, I say this respectfully.

DocBarrister

So your 800,000 number looks big, but keep in mind half of it occurred after the introduction of the vaccines. Now we're being told the effectiveness of the vaccine wanes after 5-6 months, necessitating a booster. If for some reason the effectiveness wanes again are we looking at an endless parade of booster shots? And, it is a matter of personal choice, Commissar. My physician told me just last week he respected my choice and, while he advised me to get the shot, promised he would not treat me any differently without it. I practice safe protocols, probably wash my hands 15 times every day, avoid crowds and take C, D and Zinc every day. BTW, .9977% of the population has survived Covid, if you don't count suicides and drug overdoses. Spanish flu was .9936, and would have been much lower if troops were not confined to ships coming back from WWI.

Lastly, how do you explain this?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN26K0AI

Could part of it be anti malarial/anti parasitic drugs? Drugs that have no patent? Cui Bono?

Well would you be ok with longer and more broad shutdowns of our country if we chose to take it slow and not attempt to take faster action (like is demanded now of the president with respect to supply chain and oil prices as it was with the former president on a viral, airborne, contagious & known to be deadly health crisis)?

So sure, take it slow but there’s a collective responsibility to not spread and spreadable problem. It’s one or the other and many (certainly not all but clearly the majority of the vaxx opposition) were simultaneously upset about the restrictions in the country.

It’s an either or. Arguing in hindsight though definitely needs to address that incongruity.

Sweden has roughly 68% vaccinated and their average deaths per day is 4, without any serious lockdowns. Why? Perhaps they are a healthy lot, combined with the fact that they allowed the virus to spread amount the young and healthy while focusing on their vulnerable population of old and infirm. It isn't vaccines or lockdowns. There were more than two choices. Some would even argue the choices made by our leaders were population control vs. public health. I think there is at least a grain of truth in that view. Many of our supposed "betters", even some on this forum, are immune to hearing anything that runs contrary to the prevailing groupthink.

You need to stop with these foolish comparisons.

Sweden has a population density that is one-tenth of the United Kingdom’s. New York City has a population density that is more than a thousand times that of Sweden.

Your fears are irrational. It’s just a vaccine, and the Covid-19 vaccines happen to be very safe and effective.

DocBarrister

[Farfromgeneva]

The basic problem with "acquired" immunity - coming from a case of COVID, is that there does not seem to be enough consistent data to predict whether one who has this sort of immunity is actually well or marginally protected (seems to depend on how mild a case one has), nor how long the immunity lasts. Getting the vaccination, even when having a prior case, becomes a useful means of insuring a high level of protection.

Yes, the vaccine emergency approval was pushed as fast as it could be, and some steps that may have been serial in the approval process became more parallel to do that. But the safety record of the vaccines so far has been probably better than can be expected, especially for the m-RNA vaccines. We now have more than a year of good data on safety for a portion of the population, and at least a half year for adults of all ages...

Vaccine hesitancy has built up more recent history for mostly bad reasons - a great example is the association of autism diagnoses with thimerosol containing vaccines, which has been shown to be an extreme case of academic/scientific fraud. Yes, there are side effects of vaccines, and occasionally horrible outcomes - but the risk of these has been repeatedly shown to be far less than the risk of not being vaccinated.

This hits personally, because I have one brother who refuses to get vaccinated because he had a relatively mild case of COVID last March. My 88 year old parents (vaccinated and boosted) were directly told by their family physician to not attend gatherings at his house, where Thanksgiving was initially scheduled to be held. So we now have a split Thanksgiving, with some at my house (including two of his three children), and some at his.

His objections are primarily driven by the current RW media obsession with pushing personal rights to refuse to get vaccinated which seems to be a very cynical ploy to drive up anger at the expense of actual lives. Note that to work for example at Fox News you need to be vaccinated. To attend a live taping - same as well. But the opinion hosts drive the message (backed by a lot of misinterpretations of science) that it is almost honorable to refuse a vaccine. And question its safety with bogus arguments...

My wife (who recently had a valve replacement) and my 33 year old Autistic son (who lives with us) have both been fully vaccinated. I never once tried to talk them out of getting the vaccine, even though there have been numerous reports of people way healthier than me having adverse reactions to the m-RNA vaccines, including death. My wife also never tried to talk me into getting the jab. In addition, the vaccinated can be infected with the virus and become as contagious as a non vaccinated person, so my only benefit would be to perhaps have it somewhat mitigate my symptoms or nominally increase my chances of avoiding the ventilator. My wife is a nurse, and trust me, at the first sign of symptoms, I am getting tested, and if positive, treated.

Anyone who watches pharmaceutical commercials knows the side effects of all of these meds, whether for psoriatic arthritis, MS, cancer treatments, etc. Yet we get no disclaimer on the vaccine, mainly because the government gave them immunity, unlike medical immunity for those that were treated.

Respectfully, your fears about Covid-19 vaccines are irrational and are not based on evidence or data.

The Covid-19 vaccines available in the United States are extremely safe and effective.

Covid-19 is not just a “nasty respiratory virus,” it is the most dangerous respiratory virus seen in over a century. It has killed over 5 million people globally and nearly 800,000 in the U.S. alone. That is despite vigorous mitigation efforts and modern medical technology.

Stop acting irrationally and get vaccinated. It isn’t a matter of personal choice. It’s a civic duty, something that is not appreciated enough these days.

Again, I say this respectfully.

DocBarrister

So your 800,000 number looks big, but keep in mind half of it occurred after the introduction of the vaccines. Now we're being told the effectiveness of the vaccine wanes after 5-6 months, necessitating a booster. If for some reason the effectiveness wanes again are we looking at an endless parade of booster shots? And, it is a matter of personal choice, Commissar. My physician told me just last week he respected my choice and, while he advised me to get the shot, promised he would not treat me any differently without it. I practice safe protocols, probably wash my hands 15 times every day, avoid crowds and take C, D and Zinc every day. BTW, .9977% of the population has survived Covid, if you don't count suicides and drug overdoses. Spanish flu was .9936, and would have been much lower if troops were not confined to ships coming back from WWI.

Lastly, how do you explain this?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN26K0AI

Could part of it be anti malarial/anti parasitic drugs? Drugs that have no patent? Cui Bono?

Well would you be ok with longer and more broad shutdowns of our country if we chose to take it slow and not attempt to take faster action (like is demanded now of the president with respect to supply chain and oil prices as it was with the former president on a viral, airborne, contagious & known to be deadly health crisis)?

So sure, take it slow but there’s a collective responsibility to not spread and spreadable problem. It’s one or the other and many (certainly not all but clearly the majority of the vaxx opposition) were simultaneously upset about the restrictions in the country.

It’s an either or. Arguing in hindsight though definitely needs to address that incongruity.

Sweden has roughly 68% vaccinated and their average deaths per day is 4, without any serious lockdowns. Why? Perhaps they are a healthy lot, combined with the fact that they allowed the virus to spread amount the young and healthy while focusing on their vulnerable population of old and infirm. It isn't vaccines or lockdowns. There were more than two choices. Some would even argue the choices made by our leaders were population control vs. public health. I think there is at least a grain of truth in that view. Many of our supposed "betters", even some on this forum, are immune to hearing anything that runs contrary to the prevailing groupthink.

Ive consistently argued that any comparison between Scandinavian countries and ours, on countless topics, are not good comparables. But again there’s an inconsistency in what we demand of our government and what we allow or expect. Action was wanted/demanded but like there’s a magic easy button. I accept that measures were taken and did my part being as educated as I could in a fluid situation at a point in time, in the moment.

Population control? You’ll have to accept that I would just believe differently on that.

I’m all for a basket of approaches but I also strongly believe the prior president politicized this and consequently reduced the options and actions that could be taken, top down, dramatically. There wasn’t a serious, sober, analytical approach taken. To suggest that was the case now I strongly disagree with and so Monday morning quarterbacking is exactly what the term implies in this case. Best we can do is lessons learned in an agnostic and sterile manner. But that’s not what the discussions in this thread or on the street are about or like.

[Farfromgeneva]

African countries death rate per covid case is worse than ours. 2.4% of covid cases have resulted in death.

https://www.afro.who.int/health-topics/ ... s-covid-19

Not necessarily a fair statistic or measure. Slim to no quality healthcare in those nations. Many are 3rd world countries.

I was responding with to a post that seemed to suggest that African countries have fared well because of anti-malaria drugs.

I know. His point is likely untrue. And given the disparity in the quality of healthcare between the US and African nations, your rebuttal is comparing apples to oranges.

The guy implied a comparison to Africa. I just responded. I was hoping to find an excess death table but couldn’t. However, we are not that far removed from the Congo.

Ahhh, bucolic Zaire

[Farfromgeneva]

African countries death rate per covid case is worse than ours. 2.4% of covid cases have resulted in death.

https://www.afro.who.int/health-topics/ ... s-covid-19

Not necessarily a fair statistic or measure. Slim to no quality healthcare in those nations. Many are 3rd world countries.

I was responding with to a post that seemed to suggest that African countries have fared well because of anti-malaria drugs.

I know. His point is likely untrue. And given the disparity in the quality of healthcare between the US and African nations, your rebuttal is comparing apples to oranges.

The guy implied a comparison to Africa. I just responded. I was hoping to find an excess death table but couldn’t. However, we are not that far removed from the Congo.

That is certainly true.

At the job front, our company's deadline for meeting the original vaccine mandate just passed (if you were previously unvaccinated). Our company currently sits at about 45% vaccinated and 30% exempt. So we have about 25% that were either willing to not comply and potentially lose their jobs, or assumed we'd have to extend our deadline due to the federal extension and are biding their time.

We just let them know that we would be extending the deadline. Will be interesting to see where we can get by January 4.

30% exempt sticks out like a sore thumb. Anyway, good luck. hopefully those unvaccinated aren’t living their lives as if they are vaccinated….endangering unsuspecting people.

We’re all a country of one.

[ardilla secreta]

The basic problem with "acquired" immunity - coming from a case of COVID, is that there does not seem to be enough consistent data to predict whether one who has this sort of immunity is actually well or marginally protected (seems to depend on how mild a case one has), nor how long the immunity lasts. Getting the vaccination, even when having a prior case, becomes a useful means of insuring a high level of protection.

Yes, the vaccine emergency approval was pushed as fast as it could be, and some steps that may have been serial in the approval process became more parallel to do that. But the safety record of the vaccines so far has been probably better than can be expected, especially for the m-RNA vaccines. We now have more than a year of good data on safety for a portion of the population, and at least a half year for adults of all ages...

Vaccine hesitancy has built up more recent history for mostly bad reasons - a great example is the association of autism diagnoses with thimerosol containing vaccines, which has been shown to be an extreme case of academic/scientific fraud. Yes, there are side effects of vaccines, and occasionally horrible outcomes - but the risk of these has been repeatedly shown to be far less than the risk of not being vaccinated.

This hits personally, because I have one brother who refuses to get vaccinated because he had a relatively mild case of COVID last March. My 88 year old parents (vaccinated and boosted) were directly told by their family physician to not attend gatherings at his house, where Thanksgiving was initially scheduled to be held. So we now have a split Thanksgiving, with some at my house (including two of his three children), and some at his.

His objections are primarily driven by the current RW media obsession with pushing personal rights to refuse to get vaccinated which seems to be a very cynical ploy to drive up anger at the expense of actual lives. Note that to work for example at Fox News you need to be vaccinated. To attend a live taping - same as well. But the opinion hosts drive the message (backed by a lot of misinterpretations of science) that it is almost honorable to refuse a vaccine. And question its safety with bogus arguments...

My wife (who recently had a valve replacement) and my 33 year old Autistic son (who lives with us) have both been fully vaccinated. I never once tried to talk them out of getting the vaccine, even though there have been numerous reports of people way healthier than me having adverse reactions to the m-RNA vaccines, including death. My wife also never tried to talk me into getting the jab. In addition, the vaccinated can be infected with the virus and become as contagious as a non vaccinated person, so my only benefit would be to perhaps have it somewhat mitigate my symptoms or nominally increase my chances of avoiding the ventilator. My wife is a nurse, and trust me, at the first sign of symptoms, I am getting tested, and if positive, treated.

Anyone who watches pharmaceutical commercials knows the side effects of all of these meds, whether for psoriatic arthritis, MS, cancer treatments, etc. Yet we get no disclaimer on the vaccine, mainly because the government gave them immunity, unlike medical immunity for those that were treated.

Respectfully, your fears about Covid-19 vaccines are irrational and are not based on evidence or data.

The Covid-19 vaccines available in the United States are extremely safe and effective.

Covid-19 is not just a “nasty respiratory virus,” it is the most dangerous respiratory virus seen in over a century. It has killed over 5 million people globally and nearly 800,000 in the U.S. alone. That is despite vigorous mitigation efforts and modern medical technology.

Stop acting irrationally and get vaccinated. It isn’t a matter of personal choice. It’s a civic duty, something that is not appreciated enough these days.

Again, I say this respectfully.

DocBarrister

So your 800,000 number looks big, but keep in mind half of it occurred after the introduction of the vaccines. Now we're being told the effectiveness of the vaccine wanes after 5-6 months, necessitating a booster. If for some reason the effectiveness wanes again are we looking at an endless parade of booster shots? And, it is a matter of personal choice, Commissar. My physician told me just last week he respected my choice and, while he advised me to get the shot, promised he would not treat me any differently without it. I practice safe protocols, probably wash my hands 15 times every day, avoid crowds and take C, D and Zinc every day. BTW, .9977% of the population has survived Covid, if you don't count suicides and drug overdoses. Spanish flu was .9936, and would have been much lower if troops were not confined to ships coming back from WWI.

Lastly, how do you explain this?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN26K0AI

Could part of it be anti malarial/anti parasitic drugs? Drugs that have no patent? Cui Bono?

No, Covid-19 deaths are almost certainly being undercounted in Africa. They also have a relatively younger population and apparently some consideration is being given to the effects of an anti-tuberculosis vaccine.

South Africa saw some 17,000 extra deaths from natural causes between early May and mid-July, 59% more than would normally be expected, according to a July report from the South African Medical Research Council. That suggests the death toll from COVID-19 could be significantly higher than the official figure, currently over 16,000, researchers say. Even so, there is wide agreement that COVID-19 fatality rates have not so far been as bad as predicted.

Why? Scientists and public health experts cite a number of possible factors, including the continent’s youthful population and lessons learned from previous disease outbreaks. African governments also had precious time to prepare due to the relative isolation of many of their citizens from airports and other places where they could come into contact with global travellers.

Some scientists also are exploring the possibility that a tuberculosis vaccine routinely given to children in many African countries might be helping reduce deaths from COVID-19.

Again, your actions are being driven by an irrational fear, not facts, data, or accurate information. Do everyone you care about a favor and get vaccinated.

DocBarrister

The rationality, like the Junior Mint, may be coming from a higher source.