All things CoronaVirus

[DocBarrister]

(CNN)A fresh look at the possible origins of the Covid-19 pandemic points straight back to the Huanan seafood market in the Chinese city of Wuhan, a scientist who has been studying the pandemic from the beginning asserted Thursday.

The researcher, Michael Worobey of the University of Arizona, has put together a painstaking timeline of all the known cases of SARS-Cov-2 before it was known a pandemic was starting.
He found many were in people who lived or worked near the market, the original suspected source of the pandemic, even if they didn't have direct links to the market.

… Worobey, who specializes in tracing the genetic evolution of viruses, has found considerable evidence that the virus arose in an animal, and did not start circulating until the end of 2019. He has published multiple studies on the probable origins of the virus. But he said he wanted to check his own theories against the real-life evidence from what was known about actual people with documented infections.

… So he dove into the known cases. He says what he found strengthens the theory that the virus originated in animals sold in the market -- much like the first SARS outbreak in 2002-2004 that infected 8,000 people before it was stopped.

… "It tells us that there's a big red flashing arrow pointing at Huanan Market as the most likely place that the pandemic started," Worobey told CNN. "The virus didn't come from some other part of Wuhan and then get to Huanan market. The evidence speaks really quite strongly to the virus starting at the market and then leaking into the neighborhoods around the market."

… The journal Science subjected Worobey's research to outside scrutiny before publishing it. And Peter Daszak, president of EcoHealth Alliance and one of WHO's investigators, said he thinks it holds up.

… Worobey joined a group of scientists who signed a letter in Science in May saying the theory that the coronavirus leaked from a lab needs thorough investigation.

"I co-signed that letter in Science suggesting that the lab leak needs to be investigated, which I still believe and that it should be," Worobey told CNN. "But in the meantime, holy smokes -- is there a lot of evidence against it and in favor of natural origin."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/18/health/c ... index.html

DocBarrister

[Bart]

(CNN)A fresh look at the possible origins of the Covid-19 pandemic points straight back to the Huanan seafood market in the Chinese city of Wuhan, a scientist who has been studying the pandemic from the beginning asserted Thursday.

The researcher, Michael Worobey of the University of Arizona, has put together a painstaking timeline of all the known cases of SARS-Cov-2 before it was known a pandemic was starting.
He found many were in people who lived or worked near the market, the original suspected source of the pandemic, even if they didn't have direct links to the market.

… Worobey, who specializes in tracing the genetic evolution of viruses, has found considerable evidence that the virus arose in an animal, and did not start circulating until the end of 2019. He has published multiple studies on the probable origins of the virus. But he said he wanted to check his own theories against the real-life evidence from what was known about actual people with documented infections.

… So he dove into the known cases. He says what he found strengthens the theory that the virus originated in animals sold in the market -- much like the first SARS outbreak in 2002-2004 that infected 8,000 people before it was stopped.

… "It tells us that there's a big red flashing arrow pointing at Huanan Market as the most likely place that the pandemic started," Worobey told CNN. "The virus didn't come from some other part of Wuhan and then get to Huanan market. The evidence speaks really quite strongly to the virus starting at the market and then leaking into the neighborhoods around the market."

… The journal Science subjected Worobey's research to outside scrutiny before publishing it. And Peter Daszak, president of EcoHealth Alliance and one of WHO's investigators, said he thinks it holds up.

… Worobey joined a group of scientists who signed a letter in Science in May saying the theory that the coronavirus leaked from a lab needs thorough investigation.

"I co-signed that letter in Science suggesting that the lab leak needs to be investigated, which I still believe and that it should be," Worobey told CNN. "But in the meantime, holy smokes -- is there a lot of evidence against it and in favor of natural origin."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/18/health/c ... index.html

DocBarrister

Interesting article. Here is a link to the original. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm4454

[Peter Brown]

From the Rhode Island Department of Health, Jul-Oct 2021 data for covid-19 hospitalizations & deaths (expressed per 100K) reveal prior infection/natural immunity is a FAR more important predictor, regardless of vaccination status.

0F7ECE99-F2EF-45FE-9AFB-E78CA1493B26.png (40.15 KiB) Viewed 1221 times

[Peter Brown]

Ending coercive c19 restrictions like masks on children is simple- just end them. Ending mask mandates is simple- make masks optional. We don’t need unproven off-ramps to appease adults. Children have the right to live freely and show their faces, just as we all enjoyed in years past.

I don’t know how so many Americans have become so stupid and timid simultaneously. I just got back from DC….what a land of obedient sheep, scared of their own shadows, virtue signaling all day, appeasing total lunatics, not the least bit skeptical of bureaucracies because they are one. I swear, the best thing this country could ever do is move DC to Texas and make these wimps learn a real skill. DC bureaucracy are truly useless creatures.

Here is death data for the worrywarts in the back.

C8E39042-5422-42E2-B646-290A3C012897.jpeg (118.26 KiB) Viewed 1220 times

Please grow a pair and start living again. Sheesh.

[Bart]

From the Rhode Island Department of Health, Jul-Oct 2021 data for covid-19 hospitalizations & deaths (expressed per 100K) reveal prior infection/natural immunity is a FAR more important predictor, regardless of vaccination status.




0F7ECE99-F2EF-45FE-9AFB-E78CA1493B26.png

It does? Unless you can break it down between those who had the vaccine and those who do not the data is meaning less. Especially in death. Out of the 5 how many were completely vaccinated? That is the data that is needed. Regardless of vaccination status is meaningless. If you have that data then please show it.

Instead of just a screen shot, post the source data. That would certainly help.

[NattyBohChamps04]

Nah, just let COVID run through the entire population so we all get natural immunity.

Well, at least those who don't die or get long term issues will get natural immunity.

And screw the millions and millions who do die and face health issues after. Not our problem.

And didn't you hear, kids can't pass on COVID to adults.

[Peter Brown]

From the Rhode Island Department of Health, Jul-Oct 2021 data for covid-19 hospitalizations & deaths (expressed per 100K) reveal prior infection/natural immunity is a FAR more important predictor, regardless of vaccination status.


0F7ECE99-F2EF-45FE-9AFB-E78CA1493B26.png

It does? Unless you can break it down between those who had the vaccine and those who do not the data is meaning less. Especially in death. Out of the 5 how many were completely vaccinated? That is the data that is needed. Regardless of vaccination status is meaningless. If you have that data then please show it.

Instead of just a screen shot, post the source data. That would certainly help.

I don’t have the source data (state of Rhode Island’s Department of Health published it), but you can guess they don’t break it out because most of those previously infected but now dead were in fact vaccinated (my guess is predicated on the fact that RIDG has been very aggressive about mandates, so it’s not going out on a limb to suggest that they will do what they can to suppress information that makes their previous stances less impressive…).

But, really, I’m guessing the answer to your question is, it’s irrelevant. The real issue is those 5 were PREVIOUSLY infected. And the number of deaths from previous infections is low, in both age brackets. That would suggest that previous infection produces better resistance to the virus, at least significantly more than being vaccinated or unvaccinated.

[Peter Brown]

Nah, just let COVID run through the entire population so we all get natural immunity.

Well, at least those who don't die or get long term issues will get natural immunity.

And screw the millions and millions who do die and face health issues after. Not our problem.

And didn't you hear, kids can't pass on COVID to adults.

You do know that if you have a comorbidity, or if you are older, you can get vaccinated regardless of anyone else’s decisions. And you can wear a mask.

No one is stripping that right from you. You’ll be safe.

And further, you are aware that vaccines themselves carry great risk to those who take it, regardless of health?

The French Academy of Medicine just released a paper saying that they are now advising against vaccinations for any HEALTHY child under the age of 12, because the risks outweigh the benefits. The key word is ‘healthy’, as in, if you are unhealthy (obese, underlying sickness,etc…), you should take the vaccine, even under the age of 12. But no if you are healthy.

I don’t understand how people don’t grasp these basic concepts.

[NattyBohChamps04]

You do know that if you have a comorbidity, or if you are older, you can get vaccinated regardless of anyone else’s decisions. And you can wear a mask.

No one is stripping that right from you. You’ll be safe.

And further, you are aware that vaccines themselves carry great risk to those who take it, regardless of health?

The French Academy of Medicine just released a paper saying that they are now advising against vaccinations for any HEALTHY child under the age of 12, because the risks outweigh the benefits. The key word is ‘healthy’, as in, if you are unhealthy (obese, underlying sickness,etc…), you should take the vaccine, even under the age of 12. But no if you are healthy.

I don’t understand how people don’t grasp these basic concepts.

One of the problems is that people aren't getting vaccinated, including many with co-morbidities. Mostly because of stupid misinformation.

The French Academy of Medicine doesn't advise against vaccinating healthy kids. They never said "don't vaccinate healthy kids" in their 11/15 statement. What they do recommend is vaccinating children with co-morbidities and vaccinating children (including healthy kids) who are around vulnerable adults. They are waiting for more in-country data before they issue additional recommendations. They certainly haven't advised against the vaccination because the risks outweigh the benefits, and parents and doctors are able to use data from other countries in their decisions. These are simple, basic concepts that are easy to grasp.

The Academy of Medicine has also recommended vaccine mandates for a huge chunk of the French population.

But of course you don't really care, you just like twisting their words to make it seem like they're actually saying "don't vaccinate healthy kids at all" to be contrarian or to try poorly to troll.


Also,

The approved vaccines do not carry great risk to those who take it, regardless of health. That's a flat out lie. Stop lying.

[Peter Brown]

You do know that if you have a comorbidity, or if you are older, you can get vaccinated regardless of anyone else’s decisions. And you can wear a mask.

No one is stripping that right from you. You’ll be safe.

And further, you are aware that vaccines themselves carry great risk to those who take it, regardless of health?

The French Academy of Medicine just released a paper saying that they are now advising against vaccinations for any HEALTHY child under the age of 12, because the risks outweigh the benefits. The key word is ‘healthy’, as in, if you are unhealthy (obese, underlying sickness,etc…), you should take the vaccine, even under the age of 12. But no if you are healthy.

I don’t understand how people don’t grasp these basic concepts.

One of the problems is that people aren't getting vaccinated, including many with co-morbidities. Mostly because of stupid misinformation.

The French Academy of Medicine doesn't advise against vaccinating healthy kids. They never said "don't vaccinate healthy kids" in their 11/15 statement. What they do recommend is vaccinating children with co-morbidities and vaccinating children (including healthy kids) who are around vulnerable adults. They are waiting for more in-country data before they issue additional recommendations. They certainly haven't advised against the vaccination because the risks outweigh the benefits, and parents and doctors are able to use data from other countries in their decisions. These are simple, basic concepts that are easy to grasp.

The Academy of Medicine has also recommended vaccine mandates for a huge chunk of the French population.

But of course you don't really care, you just like twisting their words to make it seem like they're actually saying "don't vaccinate healthy kids at all" to be contrarian.

Also,

The approved vaccines do not carry great risk to those who take it, regardless of health. That's a flat out lie. Stop lying.

FRENCH doctors have urged against vaccinating all healthy children against COVID-19.

“But the French Academy of Medicine (FAM) insists the country’s vaccine roll-out should not extend to all healthy children.

It has advised that, for many children, the risk-benefit balance weighs against vaccination.

The 200-year-old advisory body, quoted in 20 Minutes, said in a statement that it “recommends extending immunisation against Covid by the vaccine to children at risk of severe forms of the disease due to co-morbidities, whatever their age, as well as to other children living in their family and school environment”.


It does not believe that healthy children outside of this bracket should be vaccinated against Covid.

[NattyBohChamps04]

FRENCH doctors have urged against vaccinating all healthy children against COVID-19.

“But the French Academy of Medicine (FAM) insists the country’s vaccine roll-out should not extend to all healthy children.

It has advised that, for many children, the risk-benefit balance weighs against vaccination.

The 200-year-old advisory body, quoted in 20 Minutes, said in a statement that it “recommends extending immunisation against Covid by the vaccine to children at risk of severe forms of the disease due to co-morbidities, whatever their age, as well as to other children living in their family and school environment”.


It does not believe that healthy children outside of this bracket should be vaccinated against Covid.

Here's the actual press release champ, including arguments for and against vaccinating children. Where does it say "FRENCH doctors have urged against vaccinating all healthy children against COVID-19" or anything else that contradicts what I said.

Clown show in here.

https://www.academie-medecine.fr/should ... 9/?lang=en

Also,

The approved vaccines do not carry great risk to those who take it, regardless of health. That's a flat out lie. Stop lying.

[Peter Brown]

FRENCH doctors have urged against vaccinating all healthy children against COVID-19.

“But the French Academy of Medicine (FAM) insists the country’s vaccine roll-out should not extend to all healthy children.

It has advised that, for many children, the risk-benefit balance weighs against vaccination.

The 200-year-old advisory body, quoted in 20 Minutes, said in a statement that it “recommends extending immunisation against Covid by the vaccine to children at risk of severe forms of the disease due to co-morbidities, whatever their age, as well as to other children living in their family and school environment”.


It does not believe that healthy children outside of this bracket should be vaccinated against Covid.

Here's the actual press release champ, including arguments for and against vaccinating children. Where does it say "FRENCH doctors have urged against vaccinating all healthy children against COVID-19" or anything else that contradicts what I said.

Clown show in here.

https://www.academie-medecine.fr/should ... 9/?lang=en

Also,

The approved vaccines do not carry great risk to those who take it, regardless of health. That's a flat out lie. Stop lying.

The 200-year-old French Academy of Medicine "has advised that, for MANY children, the risk-benefit balance weighs AGAINST [COVID-19] vaccination"

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/15 ... y-children

[NattyBohChamps04]

FRENCH doctors have urged against vaccinating all healthy children against COVID-19.

“But the French Academy of Medicine (FAM) insists the country’s vaccine roll-out should not extend to all healthy children.

It has advised that, for many children, the risk-benefit balance weighs against vaccination.

The 200-year-old advisory body, quoted in 20 Minutes, said in a statement that it “recommends extending immunisation against Covid by the vaccine to children at risk of severe forms of the disease due to co-morbidities, whatever their age, as well as to other children living in their family and school environment”.


It does not believe that healthy children outside of this bracket should be vaccinated against Covid.

Here's the actual press release champ, including arguments for and against vaccinating children. Where does it say "FRENCH doctors have urged against vaccinating all healthy children against COVID-19" or anything else that contradicts what I said.

Clown show in here.

https://www.academie-medecine.fr/should ... 9/?lang=en

Also,

The approved vaccines do not carry great risk to those who take it, regardless of health. That's a flat out lie. Stop lying.

The 200-year-old French Academy of Medicine "has advised that, for MANY children, the risk-benefit balance weighs AGAINST [COVID-19] vaccination"

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/15 ... y-children

Did you literally not read what the actual French Academy of Medicine wrote? You know, on the French Academy of Medicine website?

It's funny, for someone who complains about the media so much... you then post the Express? LMFAO what a train wreck.

[MDlaxfan76]

Good lord, Reading Comprehension 101 yet again.

That's a right wing rag that has clearly intentionally mis-framed what FAM said.

First they provide an exact quote from the FAM, then say that they said something quite different and more, which they then "prove" by quoting someone entirely different, with a specific agenda...and then you quote the latter quote as if said/written by the FAM...

man, that's stupid...or much worse, it's intentionally lying yet again.

Troll.

[Peter Brown]

Good lord, Reading Comprehension 101 yet again.

That's a right wing rag that has clearly intentionally mis-framed what FAM said.

First they provide an exact quote from the FAM, then say that they said something quite different and more, which they then "prove" by quoting someone entirely different, with a specific agenda...and then you quote the latter quote as if said/written by the FAM...

man, that's stupid...or much worse, it's intentionally lying yet again.

Troll.

If Big Pharma presented the Govt a “booster” of equal parts pickle juice and hot dog water, it would be approved within a day.

Collusion.

[MDlaxfan76]

Good lord, Reading Comprehension 101 yet again.

That's a right wing rag that has clearly intentionally mis-framed what FAM said.

First they provide an exact quote from the FAM, then say that they said something quite different and more, which they then "prove" by quoting someone entirely different, with a specific agenda...and then you quote the latter quote as if said/written by the FAM...

man, that's stupid...or much worse, it's intentionally lying yet again.

Troll.

If Big Pharma presented the Govt a “booster” of equal parts pickle juice and hot dog water, it would be approved within a day.

Collusion.

This crap is getting banned on Twitter and FB; it's trolling of the worst sort.
Intentional lying and disinformation.

[a fan]

If Big Pharma presented the Govt a “booster” of equal parts pickle juice and hot dog water, it would be approved within a day.

Collusion.

Great news, Pete. Next time you have a $1000 a plate fundraiser with DeSantis, you can demand that he removed the mandates for measles, mumps, rubella, and polio.

Let's see the "Free thinker" in your State bring Polio back, Pete. After all, there's no other logical reason for the government to mandate them other than collusion.

Bring Polio back to Florida, Pete. Pretty please. Show them who's boss, Pete.

[DocBarrister]

If Big Pharma presented the Govt a “booster” of equal parts pickle juice and hot dog water, it would be approved within a day.

Collusion.

Great news, Pete. Next time you have a $1000 a plate fundraiser with DeSantis, you can demand that he removed the mandates for measles, mumps, rubella, and polio.

Let's see the "Free thinker" in your State bring Polio back, Pete. After all, there's no other logical reason for the government to mandate them other than collusion.

Bring Polio back to Florida, Pete. Pretty please. Show them who's boss, Pete.

Please … let’s stop being silly and get serious … we should bring small pox back and see what the anti-vaxxers do.

DocBarrister

[jhu72]

FRENCH doctors have urged against vaccinating all healthy children against COVID-19.

“But the French Academy of Medicine (FAM) insists the country’s vaccine roll-out should not extend to all healthy children.

It has advised that, for many children, the risk-benefit balance weighs against vaccination.

The 200-year-old advisory body, quoted in 20 Minutes, said in a statement that it “recommends extending immunisation against Covid by the vaccine to children at risk of severe forms of the disease due to co-morbidities, whatever their age, as well as to other children living in their family and school environment”.


It does not believe that healthy children outside of this bracket should be vaccinated against Covid.

Here's the actual press release champ, including arguments for and against vaccinating children. Where does it say "FRENCH doctors have urged against vaccinating all healthy children against COVID-19" or anything else that contradicts what I said.

Clown show in here.

https://www.academie-medecine.fr/should ... 9/?lang=en

Also,

The approved vaccines do not carry great risk to those who take it, regardless of health. That's a flat out lie. Stop lying.

The 200-year-old French Academy of Medicine "has advised that, for MANY children, the risk-benefit balance weighs AGAINST [COVID-19] vaccination"

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/15 ... y-children

Did you literally not read what the actual French Academy of Medicine wrote? You know, on the French Academy of Medicine website?

It's funny, for someone who complains about the media so much... you then post the Express? LMFAO what a train wreck.

... of course he doesn't read. He is a lying sack of sh*t.

It's a never ending job fact checking Goebbels.

[jhu72]

Latest research on 1.2 million pregnant women shows still birth is almost twice as likely among COVID infected women as uninfected women.