Conservatives and Liberals

The odds are excellent that you will leave this forum hating someone.
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23841
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Conservatives and Liberals

Post by Farfromgeneva »

jhu72 wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:47 am
youthathletics wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:25 am It'd be nice to see a comparative of what the wealthy pay in taxes and philanthropy, vs the same demographic they use on the tax % paid. I get that we pay on avg ~14% and the billionaires are around ~8% according to a quick search. But I believe its pretty safe to say they also donate a crap ton more then the avg joe.
... this doesn't tell the whole story. I am neither a billionaire nor the average joe -- I pay a lot more than 14% - so do a lot of other people. That's the problem with using the "average" argument. Those charitable donations of high wealth individuals more often than not do not go for improvement of the lot of the less fortunate.
I always piss and moan about Abby Johnson (CEO of Fidelity and daughter of Ned Johnson) havign given less than $10MM to Hobart as an alum worth $15Bn. We have a $300MM endowment (up from like $220 1.5yrs ago) and she could give 0.5% and that would be a profound impact on our school at $75MM, formerly a 35-40%, now still a 30%+ increase that wouldn't even move the needle for her. But like most rich people she prefers to give to Harvard and hang in the club of other rich people. Charities tend to work the same way becuase the black and white galas and getting into Pg 6 are more important than helping folks who need it.

*I consider Hobart a charity that deserves money until they win a D1 title in lacrosse.
Harvard University, out
University of Utah, in

I am going to get a 4.0 in damage.

(Afan jealous he didn’t do this first)
Peter Brown
Posts: 12878
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:19 am

Re: Conservatives and Liberals

Post by Peter Brown »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:06 am
jhu72 wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:47 am
youthathletics wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:25 am It'd be nice to see a comparative of what the wealthy pay in taxes and philanthropy, vs the same demographic they use on the tax % paid. I get that we pay on avg ~14% and the billionaires are around ~8% according to a quick search. But I believe its pretty safe to say they also donate a crap ton more then the avg joe.
... this doesn't tell the whole story. I am neither a billionaire nor the average joe -- I pay a lot more than 14% - so do a lot of other people. That's the problem with using the "average" argument. Those charitable donations of high wealth individuals more often than not do not go for improvement of the lot of the less fortunate.
I always tick and moan about Abby Johnson (CEO of Fidelity and daughter of Ned Johnson) havign given less than $10MM to Hobart as an alum worth $15Bn. We have a $300MM endowment (up from like $220 1.5yrs ago) and she could give 0.5% and that would be a profound impact on our school at $75MM, formerly a 35-40%, now still a 30%+ increase that wouldn't even move the needle for her. But like most rich people she prefers to give to Harvard and hang in the club of other rich people. Charities tend to work the same way becuase the black and white galas and getting into Pg 6 are more important than helping folks who need it.

*I consider Hobart a charity that deserves money until they win a D1 title in lacrosse.


Abby Johnson’s net worth is mostly tied up in illiquid private stock, again mostly held in long-ago set up trusts. She doesn’t have $15 billion lying around in a few checking accounts.

Those family trusts have a primary goal to prevent any heir of the Johnson family from doing precisely what you demand of her….sell family stock to pay for things like endowments. Ed Johnson II wanted the family to always stay in control of the family business, living as frugally as reasonably practical, focused on the business. Ned continued that path, Abby will too.
jhu72
Posts: 14484
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: Conservatives and Liberals

Post by jhu72 »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:54 am
jhu72 wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:20 am The talking heads are all blaming Biden and the lack of bill passage for McAuliffe's loss. Exit polls tell a different story. Only 50% of voters said it had anything to do with Biden. They split 28% saying Biden helped, voted for McAuliffe because of Biden, 22% saying Biden hurt, voted against McAuliffe because of Biden.

McAuliffe and the Virginia democrats that gave him the primary are at fault. Thought they could run a retread to try to pull off a feat only 1 candidate in 50 years has been able to pull off. McAuliffe's approval rating was underwater vs Youngkin's (an unknown) being slightly above water.

Youngkin now has a problem, he lied as to who he is, telling the Trumpnista he is one of them and telling suburban women he is not a Trumpnista. Both can't be true. He managed to thread the needle, but sooner or later he will have to make a choice.

I don't believe Trump understands (yet) that he lost last night, he was played. Hard to tell what the effect of this will be in the current congress. May loosen Trump's grip on the republicans who aren't hardcore Trumpnista. May actually make it possible for Biden to work with the few republicans so inclined but living in fear of Orange Duce.
It's a combination of McAuliffe being who he is and I still think a rejection of the further left trying to strongarm the system which we are seeing with the immature manner in which they are trying to get their entire wishlist jammed through with shaky accoutning and weak heuristics.

I don't know Youngkin well enough to know who he really is except a guy who threaded the needle a lot better than most traditional politicians...hope that the party overall sees that nut hugging Trump isn't a path to prosperity.
.. I don't think it has anything to do with Biden or the progressiveness of the bills in congress. The bullet points of the bills are all very popular. Of course not everyone supports them and some see them as overstepping but these people didn't cost McAuliffe. Youngkin ran a near perfect race against a marginally unpopular democrat at a time when kitchen table economic issues were starting to appear. The Virginia democrats' poor handling of the CRT nonsense hurt, the kitchen table economics and the lack of a McAuliffe response hurt. If the Build Back Better had been passed, it likely would have helped, but that was not possible. It would have raised the moral of democratic voters and increased turnout. The Physical Infrastructure bill would not have had the same effect, it is good news but it doesn't address immediate kitchen table economic issues.

This gives the democrats a wake up call and time to respond for the midterms.
Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23841
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Conservatives and Liberals

Post by Farfromgeneva »

jhu72 wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:29 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:54 am
jhu72 wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:20 am The talking heads are all blaming Biden and the lack of bill passage for McAuliffe's loss. Exit polls tell a different story. Only 50% of voters said it had anything to do with Biden. They split 28% saying Biden helped, voted for McAuliffe because of Biden, 22% saying Biden hurt, voted against McAuliffe because of Biden.

McAuliffe and the Virginia democrats that gave him the primary are at fault. Thought they could run a retread to try to pull off a feat only 1 candidate in 50 years has been able to pull off. McAuliffe's approval rating was underwater vs Youngkin's (an unknown) being slightly above water.

Youngkin now has a problem, he lied as to who he is, telling the Trumpnista he is one of them and telling suburban women he is not a Trumpnista. Both can't be true. He managed to thread the needle, but sooner or later he will have to make a choice.

I don't believe Trump understands (yet) that he lost last night, he was played. Hard to tell what the effect of this will be in the current congress. May loosen Trump's grip on the republicans who aren't hardcore Trumpnista. May actually make it possible for Biden to work with the few republicans so inclined but living in fear of Orange Duce.
It's a combination of McAuliffe being who he is and I still think a rejection of the further left trying to strongarm the system which we are seeing with the immature manner in which they are trying to get their entire wishlist jammed through with shaky accoutning and weak heuristics.

I don't know Youngkin well enough to know who he really is except a guy who threaded the needle a lot better than most traditional politicians...hope that the party overall sees that nut hugging Trump isn't a path to prosperity.
.. I don't think it has anything to do with Biden or the progressiveness of the bills in congress. The bullet points of the bills are all very popular. Of course not everyone supports them and some see them as overstepping but these people didn't cost McAuliffe. Youngkin ran a near perfect race against a marginally unpopular democrat at a time when kitchen table economic issues were starting to appear. The Virginia democrats' poor handling of the CRT nonsense hurt, the kitchen table economics and the lack of a McAuliffe response hurt. If the Build Back Better had been passed, it likely would have helped, but that was not possible. It would have raised the moral of democratic voters and increased turnout. The Physical Infrastructure bill would not have had the same effect, it is good news but it doesn't address immediate kitchen table economic issues.

This gives the democrats a wake up call and time to respond for the midterms.
I didn't say Biden, but the general haphazard and poorly structured approach to a massive increase in spending. No kidding that free stuff and progams would be popular, but can't be done irresponsibly. I started following the Wharton tracker and the way it's structured is total BS and the idea that the far left thinks they are going to "get theirs" and fill a whole wish list day one or hijack the process for everyone no different than the republican intransigience is obscene. Seriously, the $1Tn+ transportation and $1.5Tn real cost BBB (not faked out unpaid for nonsense they are pitching now) would do a lot for the people but because some aren't getting everything on their christmas list they are holding up what could be a substantial investment and benefit to the people is nonsense. And that's what is reflected in the outcome - a bunch of people running around flailing once they get power to do too much.

Regardless of what one thinks it's substantial and the way it's been handled internally and publicly evokes zero confidence to hand the money over to these same people to administer. I think the odds of the party as a whole getting their act together in time for the midterms would be consisdered highly optimistic and aspirational at this point..
Harvard University, out
University of Utah, in

I am going to get a 4.0 in damage.

(Afan jealous he didn’t do this first)
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34235
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: Conservatives and Liberals

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:55 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:31 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:53 am Opinion | Why It’s So Hard To Tax the Rich
Everyone believes the wealthy should pay more in taxes. Here’s why that rarely happens — and why Democrats are blowing the most obvious way to do it.
Patty Bitterli of MoveOn calls on Senator Marco Rubio's office to increase federal taxes to big corporations on May 17, 2021, in Tampa, Florida.
Examining the history of taxing the rich shows why it’s hard, even when there is a compelling economic and moral argument for doing so. | Photo by Gerardo Mora/Getty Images

Opinion by MONICA PRASAD
11/02/2021 04:30 AM EDT
Monica Prasad is a professor of sociology and faculty fellow at the Institute for Policy Research at Northwestern University.
In the last few weeks, the Democrats have veered from one tax-the-rich plan to another. First there was President Joe Biden’s suggestion to increase capital gains taxes for heirs, which disappeared over the summer. Sen. Ron Wyden’s (D-Ore.) Billionaires Income Tax made it as far as a plan, but seems to have died the day it was born. The latest version is a surtax on millionaires, but it could easily meet the same fate as its predecessors by the time the deal is done.

Why is it so hard to tax the rich? After all, the idea behind progressive taxation is simple, even beautiful: Let the engine of capitalism roar and then have the winners compensate the losers. By taking care of those who lose out in the free-market melee, the winners ensure the losers won’t want to destroy the system. What’s more, taxing the wealthy is popular, with a majority of Americans telling pollsters that they think the wealthy don’t pay their fair share. And economists have endorsed it, pointing out that the wealthy have benefited disproportionately from the economic growth of the last several decades, that taxes on the wealthy prevent unproductive dynasties from forming, and that the things those tax revenues are spent on, from child care to clean energy, can benefit the economy.


And yet Democrats can’t find a way. They’re not alone — in fact no country has yet managed to get enough money out of progressive taxation to fund a comprehensive system of social programs. European countries with generous social programs fund them by making everyone pay, not just the rich. As a result, in those countries social programs don’t feel like charity or redistribution, but rather like insurance — something everyone pays for, and which everyone can access in times of need as a matter of right.
The United States has always rejected this broad-based approach to taxation, insisting on progressive taxation instead. On multiple occasions it has even been the American left, which in theory supports a more robust social system, that has undermined creating the European-style tax base needed to fund it. We do have a few programs that work on the insurance principle, like Social Security and Medicare, and it’s not a coincidence that those are our most resilient programs. But the talk lately has been of redistribution rather than insurance because it’s hard not to think that the wealthy, who have benefited so spectacularly over the last several decades, ought to shoulder more of the tax burden (and indeed, the European wealthy should too).

Examining the history of taxing the rich shows why it’s hard, even when there is a compelling economic and moral argument for doing so.

Taxes on the rich increased dramatically during the First and Second World Wars, but other than global catastrophes with mass casualties, nothing seems to produce the desperation that leads to broad, bipartisan consensus on raising taxes on the rich. Indeed, even a global catastrophe with mass casualties can’t always do it, as the pandemic has shown, because low interest rates have made it easier for the government to borrow instead.


Where are Democrats in the tax hike fight?
SharePlay Video
Thus, since the Second World War, the top marginal income tax rate for individuals has declined steeply, as Democrats came around to the position that cutting taxes for the wealthy stimulates the economy (under John F. Kennedy) and then Republicans came around to the position that deficits are not a big problem (under George. W. Bush, and because of Ronald Reagan). Even if you account for all of the loopholes in the 1950s tax code, the effective tax rate for the top 1 percent — that is, the taxes they actually pay — is considerably lower now than it was at mid-century. In fact, in 2018, one study found that the top 400 billionaires were, for the first time in history, actually paying a lower tax rate than the bottom 50 percent of families.


A few recent U.S. presidents have successfully raised taxes on the rich, but those efforts didn’t pay off politically. Under Bill Clinton’s administration the top marginal tax rate rose very slightly in 1993, but it did not help Clinton in the 1994 midterms. Under Barack Obama tax rates for the wealthy went up in 2013 — and then the 2014 midterm elections produced the largest gains for Republicans in the Senate since the 1980s, and in the House since the 1930s. The midterm defeats were not caused by the tax increases, but increasing taxes on the rich didn’t help either Clinton or Obama. Although polls always show majorities favorable to taxing the rich, people don’t seem to vote based on that issue.



The awareness that taxing the rich doesn’t gain votes must be part of what makes moderate Democrats cautious. And because the rich can pay people to figure out how to legally violate the spirit of the law — an old standby is to find ways to turn income into things that don’t get taxed as highly, like capital gains, and a newer trick is to borrow against your assets so you don’t have to sell them and incur taxes at all — it takes a complex administrative machinery to stay ahead of them. Wyden’s wealth tax plan, which received support from over a hundred organizations, would have run into questions about whether it violated the constitutional requirement that direct taxes be proportional to a state's population. It would also have required new procedures for valuing people’s wealth. It’s difficult to value assets as it is; you can guess how much a painting is worth but how do you really know until you try to sell it? And valuing those assets in the middle of an adversarial exchange between government and taxpayer is even harder, which may be why most of the countries that have attempted wealth taxation have ended it. It’s not impossible, and nothing says we have to restrict ourselves to what has happened in the past. But it is a big push on an issue on which notional support in polls does not translate into electoral support.

In the absence of desperate need or strong political support, is there any way to tax the rich? Raising capital gains taxes remains an appealing option. Getting rid of the home mortgage interest deduction is another.

And as it happens, there is one option that would not require any complex new administrative procedures, and that has actually been tried recently, and has been shown to work — but it’s Democrats who are standing in the way.

Other than Clinton and Obama, the other president who successfully raised taxes on the rich was Donald Trump. His tax cut of 2017, which was mostly a giveaway to the wealthy, included one provision that actually raised their taxes instead — the cap on deductions for state and local taxes, or SALT. This is a deduction that, all analysts agree, is shockingly regressive. It benefits only 9 percent of taxpayers, and most of the benefits go to the wealthy. As scholars have argued, it underpins systemic racism. It essentially forces the less wealthy to subsidize the local public services the rich purchase through higher state and local taxes. By putting a cap on it, Trump and the Republican Congress actually raised taxes for the wealthy. (They also put a limit on the home mortgage interest deduction, which also amounts to raising taxes on the wealthy, but because they raised the standard deduction the end result was to make the mortgage deduction even more regressive.)

Republicans have wanted to get rid of SALT for a long time, as it benefits the wealthy in blue states the most. These are the states where state and local taxes are the highest. As political maneuvering it’s brilliant, because it forces Democrats into a position of deciding between their principles of taxing the rich and their political wishes to protect their constituents.

In that battle, principles aren’t standing much of a chance. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and a coalition of Democrats from blue states have even argued for repealing Trump’s cap, even though the benefits of that repeal would go almost entirely to the richest quintile, and even though that would be an even bigger giveaway to the wealthy than Trump’s entire tax cut.

It’s Joe Manchin and Krysten Sinema who have drawn the ire of progressives. But Schumer and allies have been so devastatingly and quietly effective that somehow there is not much complaint that they have been lobbying for what amounts to a tax cut for rich Democrats. Indeed, they have been so invisibly effective that completely getting rid of the deduction is not on the table, despite the fact that even with the cap the deduction benefits the wealthy the most. Perhaps the easiest and simplest way of raising taxes on the rich — by getting rid of this deduction — is not even being proposed.

Why has it been so hard for Democrats to find a way to tax the rich? Because those rich people live in the blue states.
A buddy called me last week worried about our taxes going up. I told him don’t worry about taxes going up. As long as we have poor people fighting the battle, we don’t have to worry about it. Democratic/Republican it doesn’t matter.
Messed up but I still chuckle at the sadness of it.
One of my best friend’s uncle that owned a small manufacturing company in Ohio shared some wisdom with us when we were in the 8th/9th grade…..after watching poor people vote against their own best interest (something we as 14 year olds didn’t understand at the time) year after year…..his exact words were this….. “poor people are something else!!….If it weren’t for poor people, there wouldn’t be rich people”….. I learned that he was right.
“I wish you would!”
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23841
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Conservatives and Liberals

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:48 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:55 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:31 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:53 am Opinion | Why It’s So Hard To Tax the Rich
Everyone believes the wealthy should pay more in taxes. Here’s why that rarely happens — and why Democrats are blowing the most obvious way to do it.
Patty Bitterli of MoveOn calls on Senator Marco Rubio's office to increase federal taxes to big corporations on May 17, 2021, in Tampa, Florida.
Examining the history of taxing the rich shows why it’s hard, even when there is a compelling economic and moral argument for doing so. | Photo by Gerardo Mora/Getty Images

Opinion by MONICA PRASAD
11/02/2021 04:30 AM EDT
Monica Prasad is a professor of sociology and faculty fellow at the Institute for Policy Research at Northwestern University.
In the last few weeks, the Democrats have veered from one tax-the-rich plan to another. First there was President Joe Biden’s suggestion to increase capital gains taxes for heirs, which disappeared over the summer. Sen. Ron Wyden’s (D-Ore.) Billionaires Income Tax made it as far as a plan, but seems to have died the day it was born. The latest version is a surtax on millionaires, but it could easily meet the same fate as its predecessors by the time the deal is done.

Why is it so hard to tax the rich? After all, the idea behind progressive taxation is simple, even beautiful: Let the engine of capitalism roar and then have the winners compensate the losers. By taking care of those who lose out in the free-market melee, the winners ensure the losers won’t want to destroy the system. What’s more, taxing the wealthy is popular, with a majority of Americans telling pollsters that they think the wealthy don’t pay their fair share. And economists have endorsed it, pointing out that the wealthy have benefited disproportionately from the economic growth of the last several decades, that taxes on the wealthy prevent unproductive dynasties from forming, and that the things those tax revenues are spent on, from child care to clean energy, can benefit the economy.


And yet Democrats can’t find a way. They’re not alone — in fact no country has yet managed to get enough money out of progressive taxation to fund a comprehensive system of social programs. European countries with generous social programs fund them by making everyone pay, not just the rich. As a result, in those countries social programs don’t feel like charity or redistribution, but rather like insurance — something everyone pays for, and which everyone can access in times of need as a matter of right.
The United States has always rejected this broad-based approach to taxation, insisting on progressive taxation instead. On multiple occasions it has even been the American left, which in theory supports a more robust social system, that has undermined creating the European-style tax base needed to fund it. We do have a few programs that work on the insurance principle, like Social Security and Medicare, and it’s not a coincidence that those are our most resilient programs. But the talk lately has been of redistribution rather than insurance because it’s hard not to think that the wealthy, who have benefited so spectacularly over the last several decades, ought to shoulder more of the tax burden (and indeed, the European wealthy should too).

Examining the history of taxing the rich shows why it’s hard, even when there is a compelling economic and moral argument for doing so.

Taxes on the rich increased dramatically during the First and Second World Wars, but other than global catastrophes with mass casualties, nothing seems to produce the desperation that leads to broad, bipartisan consensus on raising taxes on the rich. Indeed, even a global catastrophe with mass casualties can’t always do it, as the pandemic has shown, because low interest rates have made it easier for the government to borrow instead.


Where are Democrats in the tax hike fight?
SharePlay Video
Thus, since the Second World War, the top marginal income tax rate for individuals has declined steeply, as Democrats came around to the position that cutting taxes for the wealthy stimulates the economy (under John F. Kennedy) and then Republicans came around to the position that deficits are not a big problem (under George. W. Bush, and because of Ronald Reagan). Even if you account for all of the loopholes in the 1950s tax code, the effective tax rate for the top 1 percent — that is, the taxes they actually pay — is considerably lower now than it was at mid-century. In fact, in 2018, one study found that the top 400 billionaires were, for the first time in history, actually paying a lower tax rate than the bottom 50 percent of families.


A few recent U.S. presidents have successfully raised taxes on the rich, but those efforts didn’t pay off politically. Under Bill Clinton’s administration the top marginal tax rate rose very slightly in 1993, but it did not help Clinton in the 1994 midterms. Under Barack Obama tax rates for the wealthy went up in 2013 — and then the 2014 midterm elections produced the largest gains for Republicans in the Senate since the 1980s, and in the House since the 1930s. The midterm defeats were not caused by the tax increases, but increasing taxes on the rich didn’t help either Clinton or Obama. Although polls always show majorities favorable to taxing the rich, people don’t seem to vote based on that issue.



The awareness that taxing the rich doesn’t gain votes must be part of what makes moderate Democrats cautious. And because the rich can pay people to figure out how to legally violate the spirit of the law — an old standby is to find ways to turn income into things that don’t get taxed as highly, like capital gains, and a newer trick is to borrow against your assets so you don’t have to sell them and incur taxes at all — it takes a complex administrative machinery to stay ahead of them. Wyden’s wealth tax plan, which received support from over a hundred organizations, would have run into questions about whether it violated the constitutional requirement that direct taxes be proportional to a state's population. It would also have required new procedures for valuing people’s wealth. It’s difficult to value assets as it is; you can guess how much a painting is worth but how do you really know until you try to sell it? And valuing those assets in the middle of an adversarial exchange between government and taxpayer is even harder, which may be why most of the countries that have attempted wealth taxation have ended it. It’s not impossible, and nothing says we have to restrict ourselves to what has happened in the past. But it is a big push on an issue on which notional support in polls does not translate into electoral support.

In the absence of desperate need or strong political support, is there any way to tax the rich? Raising capital gains taxes remains an appealing option. Getting rid of the home mortgage interest deduction is another.

And as it happens, there is one option that would not require any complex new administrative procedures, and that has actually been tried recently, and has been shown to work — but it’s Democrats who are standing in the way.

Other than Clinton and Obama, the other president who successfully raised taxes on the rich was Donald Trump. His tax cut of 2017, which was mostly a giveaway to the wealthy, included one provision that actually raised their taxes instead — the cap on deductions for state and local taxes, or SALT. This is a deduction that, all analysts agree, is shockingly regressive. It benefits only 9 percent of taxpayers, and most of the benefits go to the wealthy. As scholars have argued, it underpins systemic racism. It essentially forces the less wealthy to subsidize the local public services the rich purchase through higher state and local taxes. By putting a cap on it, Trump and the Republican Congress actually raised taxes for the wealthy. (They also put a limit on the home mortgage interest deduction, which also amounts to raising taxes on the wealthy, but because they raised the standard deduction the end result was to make the mortgage deduction even more regressive.)

Republicans have wanted to get rid of SALT for a long time, as it benefits the wealthy in blue states the most. These are the states where state and local taxes are the highest. As political maneuvering it’s brilliant, because it forces Democrats into a position of deciding between their principles of taxing the rich and their political wishes to protect their constituents.

In that battle, principles aren’t standing much of a chance. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and a coalition of Democrats from blue states have even argued for repealing Trump’s cap, even though the benefits of that repeal would go almost entirely to the richest quintile, and even though that would be an even bigger giveaway to the wealthy than Trump’s entire tax cut.

It’s Joe Manchin and Krysten Sinema who have drawn the ire of progressives. But Schumer and allies have been so devastatingly and quietly effective that somehow there is not much complaint that they have been lobbying for what amounts to a tax cut for rich Democrats. Indeed, they have been so invisibly effective that completely getting rid of the deduction is not on the table, despite the fact that even with the cap the deduction benefits the wealthy the most. Perhaps the easiest and simplest way of raising taxes on the rich — by getting rid of this deduction — is not even being proposed.

Why has it been so hard for Democrats to find a way to tax the rich? Because those rich people live in the blue states.
A buddy called me last week worried about our taxes going up. I told him don’t worry about taxes going up. As long as we have poor people fighting the battle, we don’t have to worry about it. Democratic/Republican it doesn’t matter.
Messed up but I still chuckle at the sadness of it.
One of my best friend’s uncle that owned a small manufacturing company in Ohio shared some wisdom with us when we were in the 8th/9th grade…..after watching poor people vote against their own best interest (something we as 14 year olds didn’t understand at the time) year after year…..his exact words were this….. “poor people are something else!!….If it weren’t for poor people, there wouldn’t be rich people”….. I learned that he was right.
He understood the dialectic power struggle well. Sounds like you had a lot of sober minded adults around you as a kid. I had a bunch of AOH kegs at the lake drunks....

BTW, I see a Chi based shop is marketing a $140MM hotel loan portfolio comprised of OH and IN assets. Will be interesting to see how that goes (13 in total, so avg of around $11MM each, I can already envision a bunch of stuff constructed in the last 5-7yrs, 80 - 130 key, 2-4 story, weaker secondary flags like Fairfield Inn, Choice, IHG brands etc, cost basis of $120M - $140M/key and debt of $90 - $110M/key which when things turn will be worth $60 - $80M/key but performing now with limited cash flow left and substantial I/O terms and hoping for a lender to step up with PIP funds which wont be there once rates rise + 50bps, cap rates rise and any turn happens).
Harvard University, out
University of Utah, in

I am going to get a 4.0 in damage.

(Afan jealous he didn’t do this first)
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34235
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: Conservatives and Liberals

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:59 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:48 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:55 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:31 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:53 am Opinion | Why It’s So Hard To Tax the Rich
Everyone believes the wealthy should pay more in taxes. Here’s why that rarely happens — and why Democrats are blowing the most obvious way to do it.
Patty Bitterli of MoveOn calls on Senator Marco Rubio's office to increase federal taxes to big corporations on May 17, 2021, in Tampa, Florida.
Examining the history of taxing the rich shows why it’s hard, even when there is a compelling economic and moral argument for doing so. | Photo by Gerardo Mora/Getty Images

Opinion by MONICA PRASAD
11/02/2021 04:30 AM EDT
Monica Prasad is a professor of sociology and faculty fellow at the Institute for Policy Research at Northwestern University.
In the last few weeks, the Democrats have veered from one tax-the-rich plan to another. First there was President Joe Biden’s suggestion to increase capital gains taxes for heirs, which disappeared over the summer. Sen. Ron Wyden’s (D-Ore.) Billionaires Income Tax made it as far as a plan, but seems to have died the day it was born. The latest version is a surtax on millionaires, but it could easily meet the same fate as its predecessors by the time the deal is done.

Why is it so hard to tax the rich? After all, the idea behind progressive taxation is simple, even beautiful: Let the engine of capitalism roar and then have the winners compensate the losers. By taking care of those who lose out in the free-market melee, the winners ensure the losers won’t want to destroy the system. What’s more, taxing the wealthy is popular, with a majority of Americans telling pollsters that they think the wealthy don’t pay their fair share. And economists have endorsed it, pointing out that the wealthy have benefited disproportionately from the economic growth of the last several decades, that taxes on the wealthy prevent unproductive dynasties from forming, and that the things those tax revenues are spent on, from child care to clean energy, can benefit the economy.


And yet Democrats can’t find a way. They’re not alone — in fact no country has yet managed to get enough money out of progressive taxation to fund a comprehensive system of social programs. European countries with generous social programs fund them by making everyone pay, not just the rich. As a result, in those countries social programs don’t feel like charity or redistribution, but rather like insurance — something everyone pays for, and which everyone can access in times of need as a matter of right.
The United States has always rejected this broad-based approach to taxation, insisting on progressive taxation instead. On multiple occasions it has even been the American left, which in theory supports a more robust social system, that has undermined creating the European-style tax base needed to fund it. We do have a few programs that work on the insurance principle, like Social Security and Medicare, and it’s not a coincidence that those are our most resilient programs. But the talk lately has been of redistribution rather than insurance because it’s hard not to think that the wealthy, who have benefited so spectacularly over the last several decades, ought to shoulder more of the tax burden (and indeed, the European wealthy should too).

Examining the history of taxing the rich shows why it’s hard, even when there is a compelling economic and moral argument for doing so.

Taxes on the rich increased dramatically during the First and Second World Wars, but other than global catastrophes with mass casualties, nothing seems to produce the desperation that leads to broad, bipartisan consensus on raising taxes on the rich. Indeed, even a global catastrophe with mass casualties can’t always do it, as the pandemic has shown, because low interest rates have made it easier for the government to borrow instead.


Where are Democrats in the tax hike fight?
SharePlay Video
Thus, since the Second World War, the top marginal income tax rate for individuals has declined steeply, as Democrats came around to the position that cutting taxes for the wealthy stimulates the economy (under John F. Kennedy) and then Republicans came around to the position that deficits are not a big problem (under George. W. Bush, and because of Ronald Reagan). Even if you account for all of the loopholes in the 1950s tax code, the effective tax rate for the top 1 percent — that is, the taxes they actually pay — is considerably lower now than it was at mid-century. In fact, in 2018, one study found that the top 400 billionaires were, for the first time in history, actually paying a lower tax rate than the bottom 50 percent of families.


A few recent U.S. presidents have successfully raised taxes on the rich, but those efforts didn’t pay off politically. Under Bill Clinton’s administration the top marginal tax rate rose very slightly in 1993, but it did not help Clinton in the 1994 midterms. Under Barack Obama tax rates for the wealthy went up in 2013 — and then the 2014 midterm elections produced the largest gains for Republicans in the Senate since the 1980s, and in the House since the 1930s. The midterm defeats were not caused by the tax increases, but increasing taxes on the rich didn’t help either Clinton or Obama. Although polls always show majorities favorable to taxing the rich, people don’t seem to vote based on that issue.



The awareness that taxing the rich doesn’t gain votes must be part of what makes moderate Democrats cautious. And because the rich can pay people to figure out how to legally violate the spirit of the law — an old standby is to find ways to turn income into things that don’t get taxed as highly, like capital gains, and a newer trick is to borrow against your assets so you don’t have to sell them and incur taxes at all — it takes a complex administrative machinery to stay ahead of them. Wyden’s wealth tax plan, which received support from over a hundred organizations, would have run into questions about whether it violated the constitutional requirement that direct taxes be proportional to a state's population. It would also have required new procedures for valuing people’s wealth. It’s difficult to value assets as it is; you can guess how much a painting is worth but how do you really know until you try to sell it? And valuing those assets in the middle of an adversarial exchange between government and taxpayer is even harder, which may be why most of the countries that have attempted wealth taxation have ended it. It’s not impossible, and nothing says we have to restrict ourselves to what has happened in the past. But it is a big push on an issue on which notional support in polls does not translate into electoral support.

In the absence of desperate need or strong political support, is there any way to tax the rich? Raising capital gains taxes remains an appealing option. Getting rid of the home mortgage interest deduction is another.

And as it happens, there is one option that would not require any complex new administrative procedures, and that has actually been tried recently, and has been shown to work — but it’s Democrats who are standing in the way.

Other than Clinton and Obama, the other president who successfully raised taxes on the rich was Donald Trump. His tax cut of 2017, which was mostly a giveaway to the wealthy, included one provision that actually raised their taxes instead — the cap on deductions for state and local taxes, or SALT. This is a deduction that, all analysts agree, is shockingly regressive. It benefits only 9 percent of taxpayers, and most of the benefits go to the wealthy. As scholars have argued, it underpins systemic racism. It essentially forces the less wealthy to subsidize the local public services the rich purchase through higher state and local taxes. By putting a cap on it, Trump and the Republican Congress actually raised taxes for the wealthy. (They also put a limit on the home mortgage interest deduction, which also amounts to raising taxes on the wealthy, but because they raised the standard deduction the end result was to make the mortgage deduction even more regressive.)

Republicans have wanted to get rid of SALT for a long time, as it benefits the wealthy in blue states the most. These are the states where state and local taxes are the highest. As political maneuvering it’s brilliant, because it forces Democrats into a position of deciding between their principles of taxing the rich and their political wishes to protect their constituents.

In that battle, principles aren’t standing much of a chance. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and a coalition of Democrats from blue states have even argued for repealing Trump’s cap, even though the benefits of that repeal would go almost entirely to the richest quintile, and even though that would be an even bigger giveaway to the wealthy than Trump’s entire tax cut.

It’s Joe Manchin and Krysten Sinema who have drawn the ire of progressives. But Schumer and allies have been so devastatingly and quietly effective that somehow there is not much complaint that they have been lobbying for what amounts to a tax cut for rich Democrats. Indeed, they have been so invisibly effective that completely getting rid of the deduction is not on the table, despite the fact that even with the cap the deduction benefits the wealthy the most. Perhaps the easiest and simplest way of raising taxes on the rich — by getting rid of this deduction — is not even being proposed.

Why has it been so hard for Democrats to find a way to tax the rich? Because those rich people live in the blue states.
A buddy called me last week worried about our taxes going up. I told him don’t worry about taxes going up. As long as we have poor people fighting the battle, we don’t have to worry about it. Democratic/Republican it doesn’t matter.
Messed up but I still chuckle at the sadness of it.
One of my best friend’s uncle that owned a small manufacturing company in Ohio shared some wisdom with us when we were in the 8th/9th grade…..after watching poor people vote against their own best interest (something we as 14 year olds didn’t understand at the time) year after year…..his exact words were this….. “poor people are something else!!….If it weren’t for poor people, there wouldn’t be rich people”….. I learned that he was right.
He understood the dialectic power struggle well. Sounds like you had a lot of sober minded adults around you as a kid. I had a bunch of AOH kegs at the lake drunks....

BTW, I see a Chi based shop is marketing a $140MM hotel loan portfolio comprised of OH and IN assets. Will be interesting to see how that goes (13 in total, so avg of around $11MM each, I can already envision a bunch of stuff constructed in the last 5-7yrs, 80 - 130 key, 2-4 story, weaker secondary flags like Fairfield Inn, Choice, IHG brands etc, cost basis of $120M - $140M/key and debt of $90 - $110M/key which when things turn will be worth $60 - $80M/key but performing now with limited cash flow left and substantial I/O terms and hoping for a lender to step up with PIP funds which wont be there once rates rise + 50bps, cap rates rise and any turn happens).
It wasn’t all roses. Just talking to my buddy last week about another kid whose dad was an alcoholic in the neighborhood …..kid would throw rocks at him and tell him to get away like he was a dog….we were in the 4th and 5th grade. His dad would say “I just want to watch you play basketball….” The son would pick up rocks and throw them at him until he was just out of the reach of the rocks….we thought it was funny at the time….
“I wish you would!”
User avatar
youthathletics
Posts: 15945
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:36 pm

Re: Conservatives and Liberals

Post by youthathletics »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 8:37 pm Notwithstanding what people who talk out of their a** may write, and I couldn’t care less, this real estate story below represents the area adjacent to an area called “Tha Bluff” (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_on_tha_Bluffhttps://www.atlantamagazine.com/news-cu ... permarket/), which was an open air drug market until 5-7yrs ago….
Another by-product of gentrification.....sad to see this go, as are damned near everyone: https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/loca ... Tw8VNmM1PA
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy


“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23841
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Conservatives and Liberals

Post by Farfromgeneva »

youthathletics wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:54 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 8:37 pm Notwithstanding what people who talk out of their a** may write, and I couldn’t care less, this real estate story below represents the area adjacent to an area called “Tha Bluff” (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_on_tha_Bluffhttps://www.atlantamagazine.com/news-cu ... permarket/), which was an open air drug market until 5-7yrs ago….
Another by-product of gentrification.....sad to see this go, as are damned near everyone: https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/loca ... Tw8VNmM1PA
Nobody is sad to see Vine City get gentrified I assure you. Same with Hunts Point in the S Bronx.

https://www.gothamcenter.org/blog/littl ... unts-point

I don’t know about your fish market but we tend to memorialize things in our head that aren’t exactly how they ever were in reality. Couple of examples is the food at Bens Chili Bowl (presuming sobriety, I’ve had it both ways when I lived in DC) and the Varsity in Atlanta are pretty much trash but we talk like it’s exquisite.

The other thing is gentrification has a nefarious implication but it allows a new generation to create their own sub community. That’s a positive as long as it’s not sterile trash that would make a futuristic dystopian ruler embarrassed.

But I do like this joke in this skit at around the 6:20-6:25 min mark

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hzMzFGgmQOc
Harvard University, out
University of Utah, in

I am going to get a 4.0 in damage.

(Afan jealous he didn’t do this first)
jhu72
Posts: 14484
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: Conservatives and Liberals

Post by jhu72 »

Durham charges analyst in Steel Dossier investigation. Really simple and obvious comparison between the way the authoritarian right and the Biden administration approach the rule of law. Biden has stayed completely out of the Durham investigation. When he took office he had the chance to make the Durham investigation go away. He did not. The authoritarian right in general and Trump in particular tried to knee cap the Mueller investigation at every turn. But what about Hunter Biden the authoritarian right asks. Right, what about him? He has been investigated by appropriate agencies / authorities under two administrations - nothing found to this point, not charged, although Hunter admits to continuing to be under investigation by the IRS for tax fraud. We can count on the authoritarian right, if they gain the Senate or House to immediately organize a circus around Hunter Biden. Maybe they will break their own Benghazi record. That will be useful. :roll:
Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
User avatar
old salt
Posts: 18896
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:44 am

Re: Conservatives and Liberals

Post by old salt »

jhu72 wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:08 am Durham charges analyst in Steel Dossier investigation. Really simple and obvious comparison between the way the authoritarian right and the Biden administration approach the rule of law. Biden has stayed completely out of the Durham investigation. When he took office he had the chance to make the Durham investigation go away. He did not. The authoritarian right in general and Trump in particular tried to knee cap the Mueller investigation at every turn. But what about Hunter Biden the authoritarian right asks. Right, what about him? He has been investigated by appropriate agencies / authorities under two administrations - nothing found to this point, not charged, although Hunter admits to continuing to be under investigation by the IRS for tax fraud. We can count on the authoritarian right, if they gain the Senate or House to immediately organize a circus around Hunter Biden. Maybe they will break their own Benghazi record. That will be useful. :roll:
:lol: ...obfuscation. Don't pay attention to the facts in the indictment. Now you see why Trump tried to "kneecap" the Mueller investigation -- why weren't they investigating these clowns ? Poor Hunter Biden, squirrel, squirrel.
tech37
Posts: 4402
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:02 pm

Re: Conservatives and Liberals

Post by tech37 »

old salt wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:24 pm
jhu72 wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:08 am Durham charges analyst in Steel Dossier investigation. Really simple and obvious comparison between the way the authoritarian right and the Biden administration approach the rule of law. Biden has stayed completely out of the Durham investigation. When he took office he had the chance to make the Durham investigation go away. He did not. The authoritarian right in general and Trump in particular tried to knee cap the Mueller investigation at every turn. But what about Hunter Biden the authoritarian right asks. Right, what about him? He has been investigated by appropriate agencies / authorities under two administrations - nothing found to this point, not charged, although Hunter admits to continuing to be under investigation by the IRS for tax fraud. We can count on the authoritarian right, if they gain the Senate or House to immediately organize a circus around Hunter Biden. Maybe they will break their own Benghazi record. That will be useful. :roll:
:lol: ...obfuscation. Don't pay attention to the facts in the indictment. Now you see why Trump tried to "kneecap" the Mueller investigation -- why weren't they investigating these clowns ? Poor Hunter Biden, squirrel, squirrel.
"obfuscation" and sophistry too ;)
User avatar
MDlaxfan76
Posts: 27171
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: Conservatives and Liberals

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

tech37 wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:39 pm
old salt wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:24 pm
jhu72 wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:08 am Durham charges analyst in Steel Dossier investigation. Really simple and obvious comparison between the way the authoritarian right and the Biden administration approach the rule of law. Biden has stayed completely out of the Durham investigation. When he took office he had the chance to make the Durham investigation go away. He did not. The authoritarian right in general and Trump in particular tried to knee cap the Mueller investigation at every turn. But what about Hunter Biden the authoritarian right asks. Right, what about him? He has been investigated by appropriate agencies / authorities under two administrations - nothing found to this point, not charged, although Hunter admits to continuing to be under investigation by the IRS for tax fraud. We can count on the authoritarian right, if they gain the Senate or House to immediately organize a circus around Hunter Biden. Maybe they will break their own Benghazi record. That will be useful. :roll:
:lol: ...obfuscation. Don't pay attention to the facts in the indictment. Now you see why Trump tried to "kneecap" the Mueller investigation -- why weren't they investigating these clowns ? Poor Hunter Biden, squirrel, squirrel.
"obfuscation" and sophistry too ;)
:lol: :roll:

Such nonsense, 2 and half years and Durham has found what?

A guy lied about his sources (yikes, someone knew someone worked for Clinton, oh my) and thus the whole Russian-Trump Campaign entanglement never actually happened, it was all a hoax??? Because some info, maybe even a lot of the info in a "dossier" that was only used in one small corner of the investigation, but others discarded...all the rest was made up?

How many indictments did Mueller bring, how many convictions? What level were most of those? How many Russians?

What did the Senate (run by R's) find?

None of that happened???

But ahhh Durham, our fearless Trumpist hero, decides to bring these couple of small-fry indictments and you guys lose your minds.

Got it.
User avatar
Brooklyn
Posts: 10314
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:16 am
Location: St Paul, Minnesota

Re: Conservatives and Liberals

Post by Brooklyn »

Liberals ~ spend money on building up the infrastructure (as per Washington & Hamilton & FDR), create jobs for every day people, generate tax revenues via income taxation and sales taxes via purchases made with earnings. Mass production leads to mass consumption. This results in further advancing society, job creation, investment recapture, and the promotion of the general welfare.

CONservatives ~ waste money on war and corporate welfarism, generate profits for rich people who proceed to shelter their gains in overseas tax free accounts, create far fewer jobs a large portion of which are for wealthy elites. This means that the social investments are not recaptured and society goes into further debt. Then there are major cutbacks in social services that benefit the poor due to government deficits while elites spend the day counting their money. Instead of promoting the general welfare, CONservatism promotes the corporate welfare and society gets screwed.

Ironically, so many of these CONservative elites claim to be moral Christians though they cannot point to anything in their Bible which justifies their crazed political ideas. Small wonder why the economy always gets screwed under White House Republicons.


WWJD?

Image
https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.7AMNqI2Z ... =6&pid=3.1
It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

Charles Francis "Socker" Coe, Esq
jhu72
Posts: 14484
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: Conservatives and Liberals

Post by jhu72 »

old salt wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:24 pm
jhu72 wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:08 am Durham charges analyst in Steel Dossier investigation. Really simple and obvious comparison between the way the authoritarian right and the Biden administration approach the rule of law. Biden has stayed completely out of the Durham investigation. When he took office he had the chance to make the Durham investigation go away. He did not. The authoritarian right in general and Trump in particular tried to knee cap the Mueller investigation at every turn. But what about Hunter Biden the authoritarian right asks. Right, what about him? He has been investigated by appropriate agencies / authorities under two administrations - nothing found to this point, not charged, although Hunter admits to continuing to be under investigation by the IRS for tax fraud. We can count on the authoritarian right, if they gain the Senate or House to immediately organize a circus around Hunter Biden. Maybe they will break their own Benghazi record. That will be useful. :roll:
:lol: ...obfuscation. Don't pay attention to the facts in the indictment. Now you see why Trump tried to "kneecap" the Mueller investigation -- why weren't they investigating these clowns ? Poor Hunter Biden, squirrel, squirrel.
... totally expected reaction. To use your own words, "process crimes". :lol: :lol:
Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
jhu72
Posts: 14484
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: Conservatives and Liberals

Post by jhu72 »

... my legs hurt :lol:
Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
Peter Brown
Posts: 12878
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:19 am

Re: Conservatives and Liberals

Post by Peter Brown »

The more you dig into Tuesday’s elections around the country, the more you see how America rejected the excesses of the Democratic Party.

Everywhere. Seattle. Virginia. New Jersey. Minneapolis. Nassau county New York. Suffolk county New York.

Man.

A thing of beauty.

When you want to defund the police, teach America hating critical race theory, call women ‘birthing persons’, tax Americans like a Venezuelan socialist hellhole, and tear down statues of American founders, guess what: voters will reject you.

America regrettably has about 33% of its population who would prefer to live in Venezuelan ruin rather than go seize their one life. This is the base of the Democratic Party. Lazy shiftless angry revolutionaries.

The good news is this base is slowly extinguishing itself as they have low or no birth rates. The other good news is Latinos are rejecting this nihilistic stub of America more and more.

I see great things ahead for America and freedom.

Let’s go Aaron Rodgers!
jhu72
Posts: 14484
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: Conservatives and Liberals

Post by jhu72 »

Peter Brown wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 8:44 am The more you dig into Tuesday’s elections around the country, the more you see how America rejected the excesses of the Democratic Party.

Everywhere. Seattle. Virginia. New Jersey. Minneapolis. Nassau county New York. Suffolk county New York.

Man.

A thing of beauty.

When you want to defund the police, teach America hating critical race theory, call women ‘birthing persons’, tax Americans like a Venezuelan socialist hellhole, and tear down statues of American founders, guess what: voters will reject you.

America regrettably has about 33% of its population who would prefer to live in Venezuelan ruin rather than go seize their one life. This is the base of the Democratic Party. Lazy shiftless angry revolutionaries.

The good news is this base is slowly extinguishing itself as they have low or no birth rates. The other good news is Latinos are rejecting this nihilistic stub of America more and more.

I see great things ahead for America and freedom.

Let’s go Aaron Rodgers!

:lol: :lol: ... now my ribs hurt from laughing.
Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
Peter Brown
Posts: 12878
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:19 am

Re: Conservatives and Liberals

Post by Peter Brown »

jhu72 wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 9:01 am
Peter Brown wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 8:44 am The more you dig into Tuesday’s elections around the country, the more you see how America rejected the excesses of the Democratic Party.

Everywhere. Seattle. Virginia. New Jersey. Minneapolis. Nassau county New York. Suffolk county New York.

Man.

A thing of beauty.

When you want to defund the police, teach America hating critical race theory, call women ‘birthing persons’, tax Americans like a Venezuelan socialist hellhole, and tear down statues of American founders, guess what: voters will reject you.

America regrettably has about 33% of its population who would prefer to live in Venezuelan ruin rather than go seize their one life. This is the base of the Democratic Party. Lazy shiftless angry revolutionaries.

The good news is this base is slowly extinguishing itself as they have low or no birth rates. The other good news is Latinos are rejecting this nihilistic stub of America more and more.

I see great things ahead for America and freedom.

Let’s go Aaron Rodgers!

:lol: :lol: ... now my ribs hurt from laughing.


I forgot to add “mask and vaccine mandates”. What was I thinking. These two nanny states issues will never fly with any freedom loving persons. Just another reason the Dems got manhandled on election day.
Post Reply

Return to “POLITICS”