All things Chinese CoronaVirus

[a fan]

We have a number of people who are against it. They are in the "it's not an approved/studied vaccine" and "it's my God's given right to NOT inject myself with anything" camps.
Not ones you will reason with. Heels are clearly dug in.

Do they know that they'll cost their friends and coworkers these contracts if they don't comply?

[youthathletics]

I agree with you.
But doubt its going to work with at least a handful. Probably more. And unfortunately these are critical task people matrixed across multiple contracts.
Our "expertise" is these people's esoteric experience and background. In addition to a number of religious exemptions filled out, there will be a number who simply wont comply because they don't think it's any of HR's business.
We have a number of people who are against it. They are in the "it's not an approved/studied vaccine" and "it's my God's given right to NOT inject myself with anything" camps.
Not ones you will reason with. Heels are clearly dug in.
HR based out of huntsville AL doesnt quite realize what they are up against. Or how many there will be. They are gonna be surprised when the forms are not submitted by Nov 19th.

Not necessarily for Krameria but I found this from the White House (dated 07-OCT-2021), and frankly I am confused by it. See page 7 HERE

This is the piece that is confusing, where they state "Ensuring that all businesses with 100 or more employees require every worker
be fully vaccinated or tested weekly" This text is in italics within the document on page 7, why? But certainly appears like testing will be an allowable avenue. But in the EO, it states that testing is NOT an option.

Seems there is an out....IF you test weekly or is there some discrepancy between the EO and what OSHA originally allowed?

[MDlaxfan76]

I agree with you.
But doubt its going to work with at least a handful. Probably more. And unfortunately these are critical task people matrixed across multiple contracts.
Our "expertise" is these people's esoteric experience and background. In addition to a number of religious exemptions filled out, there will be a number who simply wont comply because they don't think it's any of HR's business.
We have a number of people who are against it. They are in the "it's not an approved/studied vaccine" and "it's my God's given right to NOT inject myself with anything" camps.
Not ones you will reason with. Heels are clearly dug in.
HR based out of huntsville AL doesnt quite realize what they are up against. Or how many there will be. They are gonna be surprised when the forms are not submitted by Nov 19th.

Not necessarily for Krameria but I found this from the White House (dated 07-OCT-2021), and frankly I am confused by it. See page 7 HERE

This is the piece that is confusing, where they state "Ensuring that all businesses with 100 or more employees require every worker
be fully vaccinated or tested weekly" This text is in italics within the document on page 7, why? But certainly appears like testing will be an allowable avenue. But in the EO, it states that testing is NOT an option.

Seems there is an out....IF you test weekly or is there some discrepancy between the EO and what OSHA originally allowed?

Looks like the requirements supersede those earlier, but for specific covered contractors only.

Here's one employer's summary:

https://www.fisherphillips.com/news-ins ... ccess.html

Kram,
I see that this doesn't apply for contracts signed before Oct 15 and ongoing, just new ones or extensions to older ones. There's also the ability to get a 60 day extension for a particularly essential employee to comply.

Those provisions may help your company a bit, though not permanently. But maybe time to scramble if there's an issue.

[ardilla secreta]

Moog workers walk out in protest of vaccine mandate
"We're against government coercion"

Primarily a defense contractor, they are required to get vaccinated by December 8 or be fired. Showing a great sense of humor, they state that they’re not against the vaccine, but stand against the government forcing them. I doubt that in the end they’d be willing to give up a good paying job with benefits, though there are always a few willing to do so.

https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/mo ... ne-mandate

Our company has the same mandate.
We have those with the company who are vaccinated and unvaccinated that are both fighting the reporting of vaccination status.
Companies will incur a large (~$15k) fine per employee, each day past, for non reporting.

What does reporting entail. Submitting vaccine paperwork? Why would anyone have an issue with reporting vaccination status, at least if vaccinated? I don’t understand that. Didn’t know about the fines. That would certainly make it a slam dunk for companies to terminate those that chose not to adhere.

The gov has given zero guidelines aside from “comply.”

So at this point Reporting up to the government only entails saying that we are _% compliant. Then we pay a fine of each employee, noncompliant, per day.

We guesstimate that At least 1/4 to 1/3 of the employees don’t want the vax. Another portion is actually vaaced but doesn’t want to report because they don’t want required boosters. “where does it end?” Is the phrase heard a few times.

We are allowing both medical and religious exemptions.

But most of our work requires access to a military base, somewhere in the world. So if an employee must be vaccinated to get on base and do their job, and they can’t, they will be fired. Regardless of exemption. And each base is different. Depending on the commander.

We must be 100% compliant by Dec.

So we will likely be firing people. At least a couple employees have already lawyered up. But when you have some of these key personnel matrixed across multiple contracts in our company, we’re screwed. We don’t have any leverage or answers.

We will try to hire replacements. But people with (super random esoteric) experience as, say, former SEALs who are underwater EOD techs …are hard to come by… And the government will not be hiring any competitors. There are none with the capability.

So the jury is still out if our company will be able to survive the mandate. But it’s not looking promising right now.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

I hadn't heard the "vaxxed, but don't want the required boosters" excuse...are boosters required or are they just projecting that eventual likelihood? and why would someone be vaccinated but refuse to boost at some future point? Seems a bit screwy.

But then refusing to get vaxxed is pretty screwy too.

So, if your company fires those who can't go on bases rather than take penalties, what would the repercussion be on the contracts that would be under filled? Lost profits on those employees? Lost bonuses for on time completed projects? Or total contract dissolution? Seems to me that the latter would be avoidable through negotiation.

Booster complaint came from someone who is vaxxed, but thinks the gov and hr’s even asking is a personal infringement. Another got vaaxed early on and the wife had menstrual abnormalities and isn’t comfortable with more in their system, without Studies.

So we have to be 100% “compliant” as a company. That may or may not be attainable. Medical and religious exemptions may get us there. Maybe. And we are being very liberal with our interpretation of these. As I said, some are lawyering up already.

If we get holdouts and don’t certify, we will be fined daily per employee. Essentially the gov telling us to fire these employees or pay an insane per day, per person fee.

So say we are now at 100 % compliant. If we don’t have personnel who can actually get on a locked-down base and perform the jobs needed, we are in breech of contract.

You can be compliant with the .gov’s mandate. That is fine for some who don’t have to get on base. Those that need to get on base need to have vax paperwork. Not just a company certification.

If it’s a critical task contract, which many of ours are, we can lose the contract immediately. Others won’t be renewed when the PoP ends. But for both, the result is a lost contract and permanent record blemished. (CPARS). Both NOT good for future work.

I sure don’t envy what you have to face. Probably overly optimistic, but the easiest way to deal with it may be to have education/counseling sessions to separate science/safety from politics. I can’t think of a sensible reason not to be vaxxed during such a dangerous time.

I waited for my cohort to be called and it was easy and organized to get my two vaccines. Getting those vaccines gave me the security and confidence to socialize within reason. I more than welcome the opportunity to get my booster next week and I don’t care who knows about it. I want people to know about it. I’m retired so I don’t have to be around others regularly. If I did then I would definitely want the vaccines.

For me there is no logical reason not be vaccinated and make the country a safer place. I just don’t get it, but that’s the world we live in these days.

[wgdsr]

Moog workers walk out in protest of vaccine mandate
"We're against government coercion"

Primarily a defense contractor, they are required to get vaccinated by December 8 or be fired. Showing a great sense of humor, they state that they’re not against the vaccine, but stand against the government forcing them. I doubt that in the end they’d be willing to give up a good paying job with benefits, though there are always a few willing to do so.

https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/mo ... ne-mandate

Our company has the same mandate.
We have those with the company who are vaccinated and unvaccinated that are both fighting the reporting of vaccination status.
Companies will incur a large (~$15k) fine per employee, each day past, for non reporting.

What does reporting entail. Submitting vaccine paperwork? Why would anyone have an issue with reporting vaccination status, at least if vaccinated? I don’t understand that. Didn’t know about the fines. That would certainly make it a slam dunk for companies to terminate those that chose not to adhere.

The gov has given zero guidelines aside from “comply.”

So at this point Reporting up to the government only entails saying that we are _% compliant. Then we pay a fine of each employee, noncompliant, per day.

We guesstimate that At least 1/4 to 1/3 of the employees don’t want the vax. Another portion is actually vaaced but doesn’t want to report because they don’t want required boosters. “where does it end?” Is the phrase heard a few times.

We are allowing both medical and religious exemptions.

But most of our work requires access to a military base, somewhere in the world. So if an employee must be vaccinated to get on base and do their job, and they can’t, they will be fired. Regardless of exemption. And each base is different. Depending on the commander.

We must be 100% compliant by Dec.

So we will likely be firing people. At least a couple employees have already lawyered up. But when you have some of these key personnel matrixed across multiple contracts in our company, we’re screwed. We don’t have any leverage or answers.

We will try to hire replacements. But people with (super random esoteric) experience as, say, former SEALs who are underwater EOD techs …are hard to come by… And the government will not be hiring any competitors. There are none with the capability.

So the jury is still out if our company will be able to survive the mandate. But it’s not looking promising right now.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

I hadn't heard the "vaxxed, but don't want the required boosters" excuse...are boosters required or are they just projecting that eventual likelihood? and why would someone be vaccinated but refuse to boost at some future point? Seems a bit screwy.

But then refusing to get vaxxed is pretty screwy too.

So, if your company fires those who can't go on bases rather than take penalties, what would the repercussion be on the contracts that would be under filled? Lost profits on those employees? Lost bonuses for on time completed projects? Or total contract dissolution? Seems to me that the latter would be avoidable through negotiation.

Booster complaint came from someone who is vaxxed, but thinks the gov and hr’s even asking is a personal infringement. Another got vaaxed early on and the wife had menstrual abnormalities and isn’t comfortable with more in their system, without Studies.

So we have to be 100% “compliant” as a company. That may or may not be attainable. Medical and religious exemptions may get us there. Maybe. And we are being very liberal with our interpretation of these. As I said, some are lawyering up already.

If we get holdouts and don’t certify, we will be fined daily per employee. Essentially the gov telling us to fire these employees or pay an insane per day, per person fee.

So say we are now at 100 % compliant. If we don’t have personnel who can actually get on a locked-down base and perform the jobs needed, we are in breech of contract.

You can be compliant with the .gov’s mandate. That is fine for some who don’t have to get on base. Those that need to get on base need to have vax paperwork. Not just a company certification.

If it’s a critical task contract, which many of ours are, we can lose the contract immediately. Others won’t be renewed when the PoP ends. But for both, the result is a lost contract and permanent record blemished. (CPARS). Both NOT good for future work.

I sure don’t envy what you have to face. Probably overly optimistic, but the easiest way to deal with it may be to have education/counseling sessions to separate science/safety from politics. I can’t think of a sensible reason not to be vaxxed during such a dangerous time.

I waited for my cohort to be called and it was easy and organized to get my two vaccines. Getting those vaccines gave me the security and confidence to socialize within reason. I more than welcome the opportunity to get my booster next week and I don’t care who knows about it. I want people to know about it. I’m retired so I don’t have to be around others regularly. If I did then I would definitely want the vaccines.

For me there is no logical reason not be vaccinated and make the country a safer place. I just don’t get it, but that’s the world we live in these days.

[Farfromgeneva]

It sucks for one or a few folks to drag a business down but of course there’s the prerogative of ownership who chooses to do business w the gov and their source of revenue be taxpayer money. At some point people’s choices and consequences cant be bifurcated anymore.

[ardilla secreta]

This is a FB post from today by a close woman friend living in Putnam County, WV between Huntington and Charleston. While West Virginia started hot with vaccines they are now among the lowest.

“In the early 1960s I was the local poster child for the NEW oral polio vaccine which was placed in a sugar cube. In my twenties I trained with a Voice Coach who got polio as a child before the vaccine was readily available. She performed musicals onstage with crutches and in her leg braces and eventually in a wheelchair. Vaccines work. Please protect yourself and your family. When was the last time you met someone who contracted polio? I’m just saying…….”

[wgdsr]

It sucks for one or a few folks to drag a business down but of course there’s the prerogative of ownership who chooses to do business w the gov and their source of revenue be taxpayer money. At some point people’s choices and consequences cant be bifurcated anymore.

having watched this site for a year and a half, people don't want accountability. they want accountability for the other half of the political aisle.

[Farfromgeneva]

It sucks for one or a few folks to drag a business down but of course there’s the prerogative of ownership who chooses to do business w the gov and their source of revenue be taxpayer money. At some point people’s choices and consequences cant be bifurcated anymore.

having watched this site for a year and a half, people don't want accountability. they want accountability for the other half of the political aisle.

I presume my comments in no way suggest that your saying I fall in this camp that you’ve observed?

Maybe for some, never been true for me. I hope that’s been clear. Like when I talk about being fine with getting rid of deposit insurance, mortgage interest tax deduction, Fannie/Freddie, ag subsidies, 501c3 exemptions Etc.

[Farfromgeneva]

Didn't feel like a conservative ideology piece and Covid related if much larger issue but nice to see Burr going down likely for this.

SEC eyes phone calls in Sen. Burr insider trading probe
Jacob Knutson
Jacob Knutson
Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.) speaking during a committee hearing in September 2021.
Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.) speaking during a committee hearing in September 2021. Photo: Greg Nash- Pool/Getty Images
The Securities and Exchange Commission is investigating whether Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.) and Gerald Fauth, his brother-in-law, violated federal securities laws by abruptly selling financial holdings early on in the COVID pandemic, court filings made public last week show.

Why it matters: The Department of Justice under the Trump administration opened and later closed an insider trading probe into Burr and several other lawmakers from both parties. But the new filings show that the SEC never dropped its investigation into the North Carolina lawmaker.

By the numbers: Burr, who chaired the Senate Intelligence Committee at the time, sold between $582,029 and $1.56 million worth of stock on Feb. 13, 2020, in companies that would be hit particularly hard by the coronavirus, according to transaction reports obtained by ProPublica.

Around that time, he was receiving daily updates from the intelligence community about national security threats against the U.S., including the growing coronavirus outbreak.
On Feb. 13, Fauth, who was appointed by former President Trump to the National Mediation Board in 2017, also dumped between $97,000 and $280,000 worth of shares in companies that would later be rattled by the virus.
The stock market tanked in response to the pandemic about a week after Burr's and Fauth's sell-offs, the SEC said in the court filing.
The filings stem from a case in which the SEC is attempting to force Fauth to testify in its investigation into whether he and Burr used "material nonpublic information" to benefit financially.

The agency is in part focused on multiple phone calls between Burr and Fauth in February 2020, including one particular call on Feb. 13 — the same day Burr and Fauth sold large quantities of stock.
On that day, the SEC alleges that Fauth initiated stock sales in his wife's brokerage account immediately after speaking to Burr on the phone for 50 seconds.
Directly before that phone call, Burr liquidated $1.6 million worth of stock in his and his wife's individual retirement account.
The agency said in the filing that it first subpoenaed Fauth on May 26, 2020. Fauth's counsel has maintained that he is unable to give testimony because of undisclosed health concerns.
The SEC argued that Fauth's health should not prevent him from complying with its subpoena because he has continued to serve on the National Mediation Board despite his health concerns.
The big picture: After the Justice Department opened its investigation into Burr, he stepped down as chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

The senator was also sued by a shareholder of Wyndham Hotels and Resorts, who alleged that Burr violated federal securities law and abused his office when he sold up to $150,000 worth of shares in that company on Feb. 13.
What they're saying: Burr's office and lawyers for Fauth did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

Burr has previously denied any wrongdoing.
Go deeper: Lawmakers push for changes to insider trading rules

[jhu72]

Newsworthy and a milestone in court as 08DEC approaches: Biden admin barred from firing unvaccinated employees after DC judge issues injunction

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden- ... injunction

I wonder where this all will land, with Florida and police unions also suing. Any attorneys want to take a stab at guessing?

It is easy to predict where it ends, kids dying of childhood diseases that are currently totally under control. MAGA.

[PizzaSnake]

So now we get the famous “death panels”…

Too bad people are so stupid.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... nd=premium

[PizzaSnake]

Duplicate

[youthathletics]

Psaki tests positive: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html

[youthathletics]

Fox News Anchor says get vaccinated: https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... np1taskbar

[Typical Lax Dad]

Fox News Anchor says get vaccinated: https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... np1taskbar

"Life is too short to be an a**," he said. "Life is way too short to be ignorant of the promise of something that is helping people worldwide. Stop the deaths. Stop the suffering. Please get vaccinated. Please... I 'm surviving this because I did."

[CU88]

As of November 1, more than 745,000 people in the U.S. had died after contracting COVID-19, according to The New York Times.


“We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.” — 2x IMPOTUS o d

[kramerica.inc]

As of November 1, more than 745,000 people in the U.S. had died after contracting COVID-19, according to The New York Times.

“We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.” — 2x IMPOTUS o d

Joe had a plan too. He talked about it.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... oronaviru/

So far, his results have been underwhelming:

Total US Covid Deaths on Jan. 20, 2021:

392,428

US Covid Death since Jan. 21 2021:

353,404

https://www.medicaleconomics.com/view/c ... 021-update

[MDlaxfan76]

As of November 1, more than 745,000 people in the U.S. had died after contracting COVID-19, according to The New York Times.

“We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.” — 2x IMPOTUS o d

Joe had a plan too. He talked about it.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... oronaviru/

So far, his results have been underwhelming:

Total US Covid Deaths on Jan. 20, 2021:

392,428

US Covid Death since Jan. 21 2021:

353,404

https://www.medicaleconomics.com/view/c ... 021-update

Would you not agree that Biden was very, very serious about the risks and costs of Covid, did not minimize them?

And would you not agree that if the US population had all been willing to be vaccinated as swiftly as the vaccine was available to them, worn masks diligently, etc, the death toll this summer would have been dramatically better? Even with Delta?

Try it another way, what do you imagine the death toll would have been if Biden had instead said (both inside his Admin and to the public), 'no worries, don't need to get vaccinated, take off your masks'. And when Delta emerged said, 'it's not really that big of a deal, no worries, no need to get vaccinated, masks are for wimps, back to work!'

[Bart]

Novavax starting to get EUA's around the globe......

https://www.reuters.com/business/health ... 021-11-01/

Applies to have a EUA in Canada
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/novavax- ... -1.6232507