All things Chinese CoronaVirus

[a fan]

So instead we should just walk in circles, wringing our hands, hoping for the best?

It's the same issue we face with climate change. As you know, countries like China and India continue to pollute and amplify greenhouse effect. Should we simply throw up our hands and say, what's the point of continued US effort when other countries don't give a sh!t?

Re Covid though, 5 million dead across the globe. I would bet a worldwide ban on research such as GOF will be easy to come by. Of course regulation oversight will be difficult, but again, better to do nothing at all? IMO, any reduction of GOF research is one less disaster waiting to happen. Now someone on here will say something dopey like, you're anti-science! As mentioned before, find a new way to research this stuff without tinkering with live viruses, putting human existence in jeopardy.

Also, there will always be bad actors, independently plotting to destroy by scientific means. You'd be stating the obvious to raise that point... and in that case we can only hope for the best.

Everything above makes perfect sense. I'm all for it. I don't think China will sign on, but what do I know?

And yes, you're right, it's better than nothing.

[MDlaxfan76]

Ha... this is a money issue? You're the guy with all the mula (nothing wrong with that of course)...ask yourself.

I was just kidding around....if we were responsible, that would be one heckuva civll suit!

Sounds like we're fine on that count, but we'll see at some point, I guess.

Seriously, whomever is culpable needs to be identified. Then the GOF sh!t needs to stop. Isn't the human race fragile enough without the existential manipulation of viruses and now hypersonic-nukes too?

Regulation over free markets, tech? (kidding you again).

Sure you are

No, I really am.

How are we going to regulate GOF, or things like cloning in places like China? Or Russia?

So instead we should just walk in circles, wringing our hands, hoping for the best?

It's the same issue we face with climate change. As you know, countries like China and India continue to pollute and amplify greenhouse effect. Should we simply throw up our hands and say, what's the point of continued US effort when other countries don't give a sh!t?

Re Covid though, 5 million dead across the globe. I would bet a worldwide ban on research such as GOF will be easy to come by. Of course regulation oversight will be difficult, but again, better to do nothing at all? IMO, any reduction of GOF research is one less disaster waiting to happen. Now someone on here will say something dopey like, you're anti-science! As mentioned before, find a new way to research this stuff without tinkering with live viruses, putting human existence in jeopardy.

Also, there will always be bad actors, independently plotting to destroy by scientific means. You'd be stating the obvious to raise that point... and in that case we can only hope for the best.

Yeah, I'll be the "dope" and say I want the researchers to be working with 'live' viruses to better understand how they evolve and modify, and jump species, and how they can damage us; and most importantly, how they can be identified, blocked, stopped. But, man, that's dangerous stuff and it needs to be very seriously handled, with significant oversight.

If you want to show how such research can be done without such danger, go for it.

Oh, you mean just like what they were doing at Wuhan U. Glad to see you have finally changed lanes.

Yes, Wuhan would indeed be one of the places where you'd want work on pandemic-potential viruses done, but with heavy international involvement, international oversight. And China's going to do this work with or without our (international) direct engagement.

But we understand from reporting that safety protocols were slipshod...which is why I've consistently said that regardless of whether there was any sort of lab leak, whether zoonotic or engineered, safety protocols should be a very high priority going forward.

But alienating China from this effort is not a solution.

BTW, what do you think the US does at places like Ft. Dietrich?

Oh...I know, my father worked there, Operation Whitecoat

So, presumably you'd understand that the US doesn't invite (or allow) international inspection when stuff goes wrong...right?

Where are we (the US) performing this type of paid research with Chinese funded money? Full disclosure....I do not know.

with China's money?
Obviously we were in Wuhan. I wouldn't be surprised if our folks hadn't been working side by side with China's, supported by both countries, in other places in Asia, or China specifically. You do realize that most of the Wuhan funding comes from China's government, right?

I wouldn't know either, but other than in China, or maybe Asia, and possibly Africa or maybe even South America, I wouldn't think our folks are side by side with China's researchers working on pandemics, paid with their and our money. But we very much have shared interests in preventing pandemics.

If you mean our super secret bio-weapons research here in the US, I wouldn't think we collaborate with anyone. We're the wealthiest country, the single global super power, so I doubt very much we'd let anyone into our labs much less ask for funding.

Part of why I wrote long ago that it should be no surprise that China got super antsy about letting international oversight into their labs, willy nilly probing everything. We sure as heck wouldn't here in the USA.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lani ... ltext#sec1

[wgdsr]

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lani ... ltext#sec1

what is a takeaway?

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lani ... ltext#sec1

what is a takeaway?

Vaccines are safe and work for the vast majority of humans….that is what I gleaned.

[youthathletics]

Curious.....if you had to provide someone that was just dead set on not getting the vaccine, primarily for reasons of conception and birth issues, how or what would you share with them?

[wgdsr]

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lani ... ltext#sec1

what is a takeaway?

Vaccines are safe and work for the vast majority of humans….that is what I gleaned.

we should tell everyone on here to get vaccinated.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lani ... ltext#sec1

what is a takeaway?

Vaccines are safe and work for the vast majority of humans….that is what I gleaned.

we should tell everyone on here to get vaccinated.

One niece went and got vaccinated Saturday. She potentially had an autoimmune issue which has since been sorted out after I did some leg work for her. My other niece is in the hospital recovering from COVID-19. Her husband was in ICU last week. She was pregnant. Doctors performed a C-section to give her lungs more capacity. Baby fine and she is recovering. I am not too worried about the lax crowd. I know a lot of folks unvaccinated. No real excuse other than too much Facebook and other social media. Like I said, nothing dumber than a dumb American.

[wgdsr]

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lani ... ltext#sec1

what is a takeaway?

Vaccines are safe and work for the vast majority of humans….that is what I gleaned.

we should tell everyone on here to get vaccinated.

One niece went and got vaccinated Saturday. She potentially had an autoimmune issue which has since been sorted out after I did some leg work for her. My other niece is in the hospital recovering from COVID-19. Her husband was in ICU last week. She was pregnant. Doctors performed a C-section to give her lungs more capacity. Baby fine and she is recovering. I am not too worried about the lax crowd. I know a lot of folks unvaccinated. No real excuse other than too much Facebook and other social media. Like I said, nothing dumber than a dumb American.

good luck. best friend is out on the vaxx, and he has no indication that he may have had the vid already. it ain't easy.

i did notice the data set there was pre-delta. and delta plus.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... line-looms
bryan has made the mountain top. @ $5 and a quarter in his first year, we'll see how committed he is.

[Farfromgeneva]

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lani ... ltext#sec1

what is a takeaway?

Vaccines are safe and work for the vast majority of humans….that is what I gleaned.

we should tell everyone on here to get vaccinated.

One niece went and got vaccinated Saturday. She potentially had an autoimmune issue which has since been sorted out after I did some leg work for her. My other niece is in the hospital recovering from COVID-19. Her husband was in ICU last week. She was pregnant. Doctors performed a C-section to give her lungs more capacity. Baby fine and she is recovering. I am not too worried about the lax crowd. I know a lot of folks unvaccinated. No real excuse other than too much Facebook and other social media. Like I said, nothing dumber than a dumb American.

good luck. best friend is out on the vaxx, and he has no indication that he may have had the vid already. it ain't easy.

i did notice the data set there was pre-delta. and delta plus.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... line-looms
bryan has made the mountain top. @ $5 and a quarter in his first year, we'll see how committed he is.

It’s Auburn. They’ll give him a religious exemption for beating Ole Miss or any other top 25 SEC school. Especially in a year where LSU is down and Bamas defense is subpar by their standards. Tuberville will cut of funding if they mess with an HC at Auburn and he blew out of there for Cinci cash himself.

[Farfromgeneva]

I had lunch w a banker today who got Delta variant in July. He said he doesn’t like meat anymore. Jesus Christ if that doesn’t get a bunch of rednecks to take the shot I don’t know what would.0

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lani ... ltext#sec1

what is a takeaway?

Vaccines are safe and work for the vast majority of humans….that is what I gleaned.

we should tell everyone on here to get vaccinated.

One niece went and got vaccinated Saturday. She potentially had an autoimmune issue which has since been sorted out after I did some leg work for her. My other niece is in the hospital recovering from COVID-19. Her husband was in ICU last week. She was pregnant. Doctors performed a C-section to give her lungs more capacity. Baby fine and she is recovering. I am not too worried about the lax crowd. I know a lot of folks unvaccinated. No real excuse other than too much Facebook and other social media. Like I said, nothing dumber than a dumb American.

good luck. best friend is out on the vaxx, and he has no indication that he may have had the vid already. it ain't easy.

i did notice the data set there was pre-delta. and delta plus.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... line-looms
bryan has made the mountain top. @ $5 and a quarter in his first year, we'll see how committed he is.

One of my oldest and best friends won’t get vaccinated. Logic is ridiculous. But again, he only has an 8th grade education so he has an excuse (not really). Have been friends since I was 4.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I had lunch w a banker today who got Delta variant in July. He said he doesn’t like meat anymore. Jesus Christ if that doesn’t get a bunch of rednecks to take the shot I don’t know what would.0

[Farfromgeneva]

I had lunch w a banker today who got Delta variant in July. He said he doesn’t like meat anymore. Jesus Christ if that doesn’t get a bunch of rednecks to take the shot I don’t know what would.0

Seriously he switched our lunch from the best BBQ place in town called Daddy Dz to this generic Asian fusion joint because I guess cold meat is ok though he only ate like half his nigiri and part of a spicy tuna roll.

I skipped breakfast in the morning today too specifically so I could get my eat on.

[ggait]

Curious.....if you had to provide someone that was just dead set on not getting the vaccine, primarily for reasons of conception and birth issues, how or what would you share with them?

How about that all health officials, including the ACOG, strongly recommend all pregnant women get the vax. Because Covid is really bad for the pregnant woman and also the baby. And that there's zero evidence the vax affects fertility.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Curious.....if you had to provide someone that was just dead set on not getting the vaccine, primarily for reasons of conception and birth issues, how or what would you share with them?

How about that all health officials, including the ACOG, strongly recommend all pregnant women get the vax. Because Covid is really bad for the pregnant woman and also the baby. And that there's zero evidence the vax affects fertility.

My niece just went through it. Lucky to be alive. Just stupid.

[tech37]

Ha... this is a money issue? You're the guy with all the mula (nothing wrong with that of course)...ask yourself.

I was just kidding around....if we were responsible, that would be one heckuva civll suit!

Sounds like we're fine on that count, but we'll see at some point, I guess.

Seriously, whomever is culpable needs to be identified. Then the GOF sh!t needs to stop. Isn't the human race fragile enough without the existential manipulation of viruses and now hypersonic-nukes too?

Regulation over free markets, tech? (kidding you again).

Sure you are

No, I really am.

How are we going to regulate GOF, or things like cloning in places like China? Or Russia?

So instead we should just walk in circles, wringing our hands, hoping for the best?

It's the same issue we face with climate change. As you know, countries like China and India continue to pollute and amplify greenhouse effect. Should we simply throw up our hands and say, what's the point of continued US effort when other countries don't give a sh!t?

Re Covid though, 5 million dead across the globe. I would bet a worldwide ban on research such as GOF will be easy to come by. Of course regulation oversight will be difficult, but again, better to do nothing at all? IMO, any reduction of GOF research is one less disaster waiting to happen. Now someone on here will say something dopey like, you're anti-science! As mentioned before, find a new way to research this stuff without tinkering with live viruses, putting human existence in jeopardy.

Also, there will always be bad actors, independently plotting to destroy by scientific means. You'd be stating the obvious to raise that point... and in that case we can only hope for the best.

Yeah, I'll be the "dope" and say I want the researchers to be working with 'live' viruses to better understand how they evolve and modify, and jump species, and how they can damage us; and most importantly, how they can be identified, blocked, stopped. But, man, that's dangerous stuff and it needs to be very seriously handled, with significant oversight.
Such flawed logic. Lab-leak is plausible but you're willing to risk more accidents in the name of so-called progress when it's quite possible the very research you want continued may have caused the pandemic in the first place. Oh boy...

Isn't erring on the side of caution in this case essential? And your trust that oversight will somehow solve things is laughable.

If you want to show how such research can be done without such danger, go for it.
I mentioned computer simulation in another post. Why not? Really smart people can solve this.

[MDlaxfan76]

Ha... this is a money issue? You're the guy with all the mula (nothing wrong with that of course)...ask yourself.

I was just kidding around....if we were responsible, that would be one heckuva civll suit!

Sounds like we're fine on that count, but we'll see at some point, I guess.

Seriously, whomever is culpable needs to be identified. Then the GOF sh!t needs to stop. Isn't the human race fragile enough without the existential manipulation of viruses and now hypersonic-nukes too?

Regulation over free markets, tech? (kidding you again).

Sure you are

No, I really am.

How are we going to regulate GOF, or things like cloning in places like China? Or Russia?

So instead we should just walk in circles, wringing our hands, hoping for the best?

It's the same issue we face with climate change. As you know, countries like China and India continue to pollute and amplify greenhouse effect. Should we simply throw up our hands and say, what's the point of continued US effort when other countries don't give a sh!t?

Re Covid though, 5 million dead across the globe. I would bet a worldwide ban on research such as GOF will be easy to come by. Of course regulation oversight will be difficult, but again, better to do nothing at all? IMO, any reduction of GOF research is one less disaster waiting to happen. Now someone on here will say something dopey like, you're anti-science! As mentioned before, find a new way to research this stuff without tinkering with live viruses, putting human existence in jeopardy.

Also, there will always be bad actors, independently plotting to destroy by scientific means. You'd be stating the obvious to raise that point... and in that case we can only hope for the best.

Yeah, I'll be the "dope" and say I want the researchers to be working with 'live' viruses to better understand how they evolve and modify, and jump species, and how they can damage us; and most importantly, how they can be identified, blocked, stopped. But, man, that's dangerous stuff and it needs to be very seriously handled, with significant oversight.
Such flawed logic. Lab-leak is plausible but you're willing to risk more accidents in the name of so-called progress when it's quite possible the very research you want continued may have caused the pandemic in the first place. Oh boy...

Isn't erring on the side of caution in this case essential? And your trust that oversight will somehow solve things is laughable.

If you want to show how such research can be done without such danger, go for it.
I mentioned computer simulation in another post. Why not? Really smart people can solve this.

No, it's extraordinarily unlikely that the virus was engineered in a lab. Is it possible? Sure, but extremely unlikely.

Far, far more likely, and has happened for pretty much all of time, is zoonotic transmission, animal to human. That was the case before anyone even conceived of GoF research and would continue to happen after any GoF was permanently ended.

I said that I want research on "live' viruses to better understand how they evolve and modify, and jump species, and how they can damage us; and most importantly, how they can be identified, blocked, stopped."

You can't identify the potential viruses without capturing them in the first place, from the animals. That means handling animals and those live viruses.

so, I said, " But, man, that's dangerous stuff and it needs to be very seriously handled, with significant oversight." Which I don't believe is done sufficiently safely in all labs. We know that we here in the US make mistakes through slipshod safety practices (I've heard lots of stories of people going and coming from US labs without full protective equipment, cleaning, etc...shortcuts) and we are told through the reporting that Wuhan had such issues as well.

I'm 100% for computer simulation work (hadn't seen you reference such) but it doesn't obviate handling animals and live viruses. So, the danger remains, the safety and oversight imperative remains.

Now, as to GoF research, using tech to actually re-engineer viruses, producing a new virus, and then testing them to see if the variances impact in the ways that are anticipated, this indeed is very, very serious, dangerous work (and could well be done for nefarious purposes)...whether that sort of research is inherently more dangerous than simply exposure to animals that are known to carry millions of viruses, some variances of which indeed risk zoonotic transmission at any given time, I'm not so sure, but it's certainly high risk.

But pulling out of research on live viruses would IMO be really, really dumb flat earth thinking.

[tech37]

Ha... this is a money issue? You're the guy with all the mula (nothing wrong with that of course)...ask yourself.

I was just kidding around....if we were responsible, that would be one heckuva civll suit!

Sounds like we're fine on that count, but we'll see at some point, I guess.

Seriously, whomever is culpable needs to be identified. Then the GOF sh!t needs to stop. Isn't the human race fragile enough without the existential manipulation of viruses and now hypersonic-nukes too?

Regulation over free markets, tech? (kidding you again).

Sure you are

No, I really am.

How are we going to regulate GOF, or things like cloning in places like China? Or Russia?

So instead we should just walk in circles, wringing our hands, hoping for the best?

It's the same issue we face with climate change. As you know, countries like China and India continue to pollute and amplify greenhouse effect. Should we simply throw up our hands and say, what's the point of continued US effort when other countries don't give a sh!t?

Re Covid though, 5 million dead across the globe. I would bet a worldwide ban on research such as GOF will be easy to come by. Of course regulation oversight will be difficult, but again, better to do nothing at all? IMO, any reduction of GOF research is one less disaster waiting to happen. Now someone on here will say something dopey like, you're anti-science! As mentioned before, find a new way to research this stuff without tinkering with live viruses, putting human existence in jeopardy.

Also, there will always be bad actors, independently plotting to destroy by scientific means. You'd be stating the obvious to raise that point... and in that case we can only hope for the best.

Yeah, I'll be the "dope" and say I want the researchers to be working with 'live' viruses to better understand how they evolve and modify, and jump species, and how they can damage us; and most importantly, how they can be identified, blocked, stopped. But, man, that's dangerous stuff and it needs to be very seriously handled, with significant oversight.
Such flawed logic. Lab-leak is plausible but you're willing to risk more accidents in the name of so-called progress when it's quite possible the very research you want continued may have caused the pandemic in the first place. Oh boy...

Isn't erring on the side of caution in this case essential? And your trust that oversight will somehow solve things is laughable.

If you want to show how such research can be done without such danger, go for it.
I mentioned computer simulation in another post. Why not? Really smart people can solve this.

No, it's extraordinarily unlikely that the virus was engineered in a lab. Is it possible? Sure, but extremely unlikely.
"extraordinarily unlikely"? Entrenched thinking on your part again.

Far, far more likely, and has happened for pretty much all of time, is zoonotic transmission, animal to human. That was the case before anyone even conceived of GoF research and would continue to happen after any GoF was permanently ended.

I said that I want research on "live' viruses to better understand how they evolve and modify, and jump species, and how they can damage us; and most importantly, how they can be identified, blocked, stopped."

You can't identify the potential viruses without capturing them in the first place, from the animals. That means handling animals and those live viruses.

so, I said, " But, man, that's dangerous stuff and it needs to be very seriously handled, with significant oversight." Which I don't believe is done sufficiently safely in all labs. We know that we here in the US make mistakes through slipshod safety practices (I've heard lots of stories of people going and coming from US labs without full protective equipment, cleaning, etc...shortcuts) and we are told through the reporting that Wuhan had such issues as well.

I'm 100% for computer simulation work (hadn't seen you reference such) but it doesn't obviate handling animals and live viruses. So, the danger remains, the safety and oversight imperative remains.
Really?...so certain as usual. I would think "the danger" would be far less by hypothetically using simulation to show how the discovered animal viruses might then jump to humans without actually manipulating and creating the very existential viruses you're trying to imagine. Of course that's just "dumb flat earth thinking" though.

Now, as to GoF research, using tech to actually re-engineer viruses, producing a new virus, and then testing them to see if the variances impact in the ways that are anticipated, this indeed is very, very serious, dangerous work (and could well be done for nefarious purposes)...whether that sort of research is inherently more dangerous than simply exposure to animals that are known to carry millions of viruses, some variances of which indeed risk zoonotic transmission at any given time, I'm not so sure, but it's certainly high risk.

But pulling out of research on live viruses would IMO be really, really dumb flat earth thinking.
Just can't help yourself, can you?

Go ahead, you get the last word... trying to reason with you re this topic is a waste of time.

[MDlaxfan76]

Ha... this is a money issue? You're the guy with all the mula (nothing wrong with that of course)...ask yourself.

I was just kidding around....if we were responsible, that would be one heckuva civll suit!

Sounds like we're fine on that count, but we'll see at some point, I guess.

Seriously, whomever is culpable needs to be identified. Then the GOF sh!t needs to stop. Isn't the human race fragile enough without the existential manipulation of viruses and now hypersonic-nukes too?

Regulation over free markets, tech? (kidding you again).

Sure you are

No, I really am.

How are we going to regulate GOF, or things like cloning in places like China? Or Russia?

So instead we should just walk in circles, wringing our hands, hoping for the best?

It's the same issue we face with climate change. As you know, countries like China and India continue to pollute and amplify greenhouse effect. Should we simply throw up our hands and say, what's the point of continued US effort when other countries don't give a sh!t?

Re Covid though, 5 million dead across the globe. I would bet a worldwide ban on research such as GOF will be easy to come by. Of course regulation oversight will be difficult, but again, better to do nothing at all? IMO, any reduction of GOF research is one less disaster waiting to happen. Now someone on here will say something dopey like, you're anti-science! As mentioned before, find a new way to research this stuff without tinkering with live viruses, putting human existence in jeopardy.

Also, there will always be bad actors, independently plotting to destroy by scientific means. You'd be stating the obvious to raise that point... and in that case we can only hope for the best.

Yeah, I'll be the "dope" and say I want the researchers to be working with 'live' viruses to better understand how they evolve and modify, and jump species, and how they can damage us; and most importantly, how they can be identified, blocked, stopped. But, man, that's dangerous stuff and it needs to be very seriously handled, with significant oversight.
Such flawed logic. Lab-leak is plausible but you're willing to risk more accidents in the name of so-called progress when it's quite possible the very research you want continued may have caused the pandemic in the first place. Oh boy...

Isn't erring on the side of caution in this case essential? And your trust that oversight will somehow solve things is laughable.

If you want to show how such research can be done without such danger, go for it.
I mentioned computer simulation in another post. Why not? Really smart people can solve this.

No, it's extraordinarily unlikely that the virus was engineered in a lab. Is it possible? Sure, but extremely unlikely.
"extraordinarily unlikely"? Entrenched thinking on your part again.

Far, far more likely, and has happened for pretty much all of time, is zoonotic transmission, animal to human. That was the case before anyone even conceived of GoF research and would continue to happen after any GoF was permanently ended.

I said that I want research on "live' viruses to better understand how they evolve and modify, and jump species, and how they can damage us; and most importantly, how they can be identified, blocked, stopped."

You can't identify the potential viruses without capturing them in the first place, from the animals. That means handling animals and those live viruses.

so, I said, " But, man, that's dangerous stuff and it needs to be very seriously handled, with significant oversight." Which I don't believe is done sufficiently safely in all labs. We know that we here in the US make mistakes through slipshod safety practices (I've heard lots of stories of people going and coming from US labs without full protective equipment, cleaning, etc...shortcuts) and we are told through the reporting that Wuhan had such issues as well.

I'm 100% for computer simulation work (hadn't seen you reference such) but it doesn't obviate handling animals and live viruses. So, the danger remains, the safety and oversight imperative remains.
Really?...so certain as usual. I would think "the danger" would be far less by hypothetically using simulation to show how the discovered animal virus might then jump to humans without actually manipulating and creating the very existential viruses you're trying to imagine. Of course that's just "dumb flat earth thinking" though.

Yes, I'm "certain" that danger remains of zoonotic transmission when handling animals and viruses from them. And you're gonna have to handle them before any computer simulations can be put to work.

But beyond that, I'm not at all certain that without actual testing, actual data from experiments, we can be confident of computer simulation models. The models themselves need validation. But that's not my specific field, so I'm prepared to be corrected, though not by you, tech, this is far from your expertise too.

Now, as to GoF research, using tech to actually re-engineer viruses, producing a new virus, and then testing them to see if the variances impact in the ways that are anticipated, this indeed is very, very serious, dangerous work (and could well be done for nefarious purposes)...whether that sort of research is inherently more dangerous than simply exposure to animals that are known to carry millions of viruses, some variances of which indeed risk zoonotic transmission at any given time, I'm not so sure, but it's certainly high risk.

But pulling out of research on live viruses would IMO be really, really dumb flat earth thinking.
Just can't help yourself, can you?

Go ahead, you get the last word... trying to reason with you re this topic is a waste of time.

No, it is indeed extraordinarily unlikely...I realize that whatever the actual experts say about it, you prefer whatever fringe theory challenges such, but it doesn't make it remotely correct. However, it's still non-zero, so I agree with those who say it's worth considering.

And even if not this particular pandemic (nor any of the prior pandemics), it's still possible for a future event to occur that way.

so, serious.