2024

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old salt
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Re: 2024

Post by old salt »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:38 am using WSJ op Ed and Nat Review as evidence isn’t very compelling.
The WSJ piece was not about Tulsi. It cited the growing number of young Dems who agree with her national security views.
There was no NR ref to Tulsi. Troll on.
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old salt
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Re: 2024

Post by old salt »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:57 am Tulsi's lost any alignment with the Dem Party, burnt her bridges, (and yes, that's "forever" Salty) and she has no path forward for election in Hawaii.

She could have a political path if she became a Trumpist (she's closer to that than anything else), but she'd need to move out of Hawaii, in order to get elected. She could be a political appointee in a Trumpist Admin.

But she's permanently DOA as a Dem.
Tulsi may have burned her bridges with the Clinton establishment wing but that's not the entire (D) party (see Bernie bros).
Primary politics in HI is hardly a measure of national appeal.
She's young enough to outlast Trump, Biden, Bernie, Pelosi, & cwazy Mazie.
Underestimate her at your peril. Kamala did.
Farfromgeneva
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Re: 2024

Post by Farfromgeneva »

old salt wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:30 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:38 am using WSJ op Ed and Nat Review as evidence isn’t very compelling.
The WSJ piece was not about Tulsi. It cited the growing number of young Dems who agree with her national security views.
There was no NR ref to Tulsi. Troll on.
Or you could speak clearly for yourself. If you weren’t afraid of being exposed.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Farfromgeneva
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Re: 2024

Post by Farfromgeneva »

old salt wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:45 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:57 am Tulsi's lost any alignment with the Dem Party, burnt her bridges, (and yes, that's "forever" Salty) and she has no path forward for election in Hawaii.

She could have a political path if she became a Trumpist (she's closer to that than anything else), but she'd need to move out of Hawaii, in order to get elected. She could be a political appointee in a Trumpist Admin.

But she's permanently DOA as a Dem.
Tulsi may have burned her bridges with the Clinton establishment wing but that's not the entire (D) party (see Bernie bros).
Primary politics in HI is hardly a measure of national appeal.
She's young enough to outlast Trump, Biden, Bernie, Pelosi, & cwazy Mazie.
Underestimate her at your peril. Kamala did.
And you understand Democrats so well…
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: 2024

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

youthathletics wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:22 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:57 am
youthathletics wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:35 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:33 am
Kismet wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:15 am
old salt wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:43 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:40 pmAs I said, she's DOA as a Dem national candidate...forever.
Forever is a long time. Here's a good description of why Tulsi fits into the Bernie wing of the (D)'s yet still appeals to Fox viewers :

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-thinki ... 1591807587
...self-described “realists” whose revisionist views on American foreign policy include the belief that the U.S. needs a less ambitious and less ideological foreign policy. This group also sees Russia as a natural partner in any contest with China. Some in this category are aligned with the left wing of the Democratic Party; others lean right and influence Republican politicians like Sen. Rand Paul.

For many in this group, the trans-Atlantic focus of American foreign policy is a problem. They consider the U.S. troop presence part of an outdated commitment to deter Russian aggression. These thinkers believe the North Atlantic Treaty Organization in its present form prevents Europeans from taking appropriate steps to defend themselves, drives Moscow into the arms of Beijing, and imposes an unnecessarily expensive strategic model on American defense planning. Ideologically, the trans-Atlantic alliance pulls the U.S. in a liberal direction (support for democracy, multilateralism, international institutions) that these analysts tend to deplore.
Perhaps. But for the present time she could not win an election for dog catcher. She opted out of re-election because she was going to lose a primary.
She's essentially left the Democratic Party but cannot bring herself to join the Republicans. Thus she's out of luck and office as an indy in a state heavily Democratic and, thus totally irrelevant.
Correct
That never stopped Biden...maybe she just has to dumb it down.
Have no idea what this comment meant, youth.

Tulsi's lost any alignment with the Dem Party, burnt her bridges, (and yes, that's "forever" Salty) and she has no path forward for election in Hawaii.

What's that have to do with Biden? or "dumb it down"?
regarding the amount of times that one has run as candidate for POTUS
Ahhh...well, Biden's 'success', having never abandoned or deeply offended his constituency or party, was to hang around and keep plugging. Got picked as a VP to calm the moderate wing of the party, pull some independents, then picked to simply beat Trump. Missions accomplished, so far,...but it remains to be seen whether his Presidency can create forward momentum. It's still early days, but he needs to get some stuff done sooner rather than later so as to have some political capital down the stretch.

We're in quite a mess politically right now, with one side actually becoming anti-democracy in reaction to losing power and the other floundering in their 'morality', not recognizing that without the efficient exercise of power at all, they might lose altogether...permanently, as the other side's pretty clearly going to use any means necessary to attain and maintain a minority grip on control.

A mess.
Farfromgeneva
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Re: 2024

Post by Farfromgeneva »

old salt wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:45 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:57 am Tulsi's lost any alignment with the Dem Party, burnt her bridges, (and yes, that's "forever" Salty) and she has no path forward for election in Hawaii.

She could have a political path if she became a Trumpist (she's closer to that than anything else), but she'd need to move out of Hawaii, in order to get elected. She could be a political appointee in a Trumpist Admin.

But she's permanently DOA as a Dem.
Tulsi may have burned her bridges with the Clinton establishment wing but that's not the entire (D) party (see Bernie bros).
Primary politics in HI is hardly a measure of national appeal.
She's young enough to outlast Trump, Biden, Bernie, Pelosi, & cwazy Mazie.
Underestimate her at your peril. Kamala did.
Yeah the Vice President is hurting relative to increasingly irrelevant tulsi. Brilliant.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Farfromgeneva
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Re: 2024

Post by Farfromgeneva »

old salt wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:30 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:38 am using WSJ op Ed and Nat Review as evidence isn’t very compelling.
The WSJ piece was not about Tulsi. It cited the growing number of young Dems who agree with her national security views.
There was no NR ref to Tulsi. Troll on.
As evidence of what? Brilliant again.

You want to come bomb me I’ll burn it up for fun.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: 2024

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

old salt wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:45 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:57 am Tulsi's lost any alignment with the Dem Party, burnt her bridges, (and yes, that's "forever" Salty) and she has no path forward for election in Hawaii.

She could have a political path if she became a Trumpist (she's closer to that than anything else), but she'd need to move out of Hawaii, in order to get elected. She could be a political appointee in a Trumpist Admin.

But she's permanently DOA as a Dem.
Tulsi may have burned her bridges with the Clinton establishment wing but that's not the entire (D) party (see Bernie bros).
Primary politics in HI is hardly a measure of national appeal.
She's young enough to outlast Trump, Biden, Bernie, Pelosi, & cwazy Mazie.
Underestimate her at your peril. Kamala did.
Tulsi's burned her bridges with the Obama, Biden as well as Clinton folks. The Booker and Buttigieg folks, the Clyburn and the Abrams folks.
There's always going to be someone who likes her, but it's not ever gonna be the dominant force in that party.

And more importantly, ain't no one giving her a job in the Admin or national party infrastructure, nor is she gonna win in Hawaii. She's in Siberia.

So, she's DOA except in a crossover to Trump world or whatever emerges from this anti-democracy movement this GOP is following.
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old salt
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Re: 2024

Post by old salt »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:11 pm
old salt wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:45 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:57 am Tulsi's lost any alignment with the Dem Party, burnt her bridges, (and yes, that's "forever" Salty) and she has no path forward for election in Hawaii.

She could have a political path if she became a Trumpist (she's closer to that than anything else), but she'd need to move out of Hawaii, in order to get elected. She could be a political appointee in a Trumpist Admin.

But she's permanently DOA as a Dem.
Tulsi may have burned her bridges with the Clinton establishment wing but that's not the entire (D) party (see Bernie bros).
Primary politics in HI is hardly a measure of national appeal.
She's young enough to outlast Trump, Biden, Bernie, Pelosi, & cwazy Mazie.
Underestimate her at your peril. Kamala did.
Yeah the Vice President is hurting relative to increasingly irrelevant tulsi. Brilliant.
Maybe Tulsi can hire some Canadian kid actors & make a cringe-worthy commercial to revamp her failing image.

Tulsi's perfectly suited to emerge from the political Armageddon that '76 is predicting.
Farfromgeneva
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Re: 2024

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Or she could hire you apparently.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
ggait
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Re: 2024

Post by ggait »

The only person with a dimmer future in Dem politics than Tulsi is Salty's other long-standing political crush -- Jim Webb.

Which is more of a sure fire political KOD? Salty repping a Dem? Or Brookie repping a Rep?
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
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old salt
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Re: 2024

Post by old salt »

ggait wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:40 pm The only person with a dimmer future in Dem politics than Tulsi is Salty's other long-standing political crush -- Jim Webb.

Which is more of a sure fire political KOD? Salty repping a Dem? Or Brookie repping a Rep?
Jeh Johnson ?
Farfromgeneva
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Re: 2024

Post by Farfromgeneva »

ggait wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:40 pm The only person with a dimmer future in Dem politics than Tulsi is Salty's other long-standing political crush -- Jim Webb.

Which is more of a sure fire political KOD? Salty repping a Dem? Or Brookie repping a Rep?
Can we make that a poll?
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
seacoaster
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Re: 2024

Post by seacoaster »

Is it OK for the GOP litmus test for the nomination -- or maybe any public office -- is assertion of the Big Lie as true? Asking for a country.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

"Former president Donald Trump has in the past week threatened electoral defeat for Republicans who dismiss his election falsehoods, inserted himself into the Virginia governor’s race to the delight of Democrats, and promised to root out disloyal GOP officials in legislative primaries in Arizona and Michigan.

With more than a year to go before the midterm elections, the former president is leaving no corner of the party untouched as he moves to assert his dominance, both in public and behind the scenes. His stepped-up efforts create a conundrum for many of the party’s strategists and lawmakers, who believe they could have a banner election year in 2022 if they keep the focus on President Biden and his agenda.

But Trump has repeatedly turned the focus back onto the 2020 election. He moved into new territory Wednesday when he released a statement threatening the GOP with ballot-box repercussions if candidates do not embrace his false claims that the White House race was rigged.

“If we don’t solve the Presidential Election Fraud of 2020 (which we have thoroughly and conclusively documented), Republicans will not be voting in ’22 or ’24,” Trump said, part of a barrage of statements on the election and the Jan. 6 Capitol attack that he sent out this week. “It is the single most important thing for Republicans to do.”

The former president’s threat drew winces among GOP operatives and U.S. senators gathered for a donor retreat for the National Republican Senatorial Committee (NRSC) in Palm Beach, Fla., this week. Many still blame Trump for the loss of two U.S. Senate seats in Georgia in runoff elections early this year, saying his false claims of fraudulent ballots kept people from coming to the polls.

“It gives everyone cold sweats over the Georgia situation and the prospect he could have some impact again,” said one top party strategist, who like others interviewed for this report, spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe private conversations.

Already, many GOP candidates are following Trump’s lead, echoing false allegations that the election results were manipulated and raising the prospect that fraud will taint other elections.

In a private speech at the retreat Thursday, Trump cast himself as the GOP’s savior, saying he had brought the party back from the brink of disaster and helped Republicans hold seats on Capitol Hill — failing to mention that the party lost the White House and control of both the House and Senate under his presidency.

“It was a dying party, I’ll be honest. Now we have a very lively party,” he said, to a room of senators, donors and lobbyists, according to a recording of the event obtained by The Washington Post, before boasting of all the endorsements and telephone town halls he had done in the 2020 cycle.

He then railed against Republicans who had spoken negatively about him — naming Sens. Mitt Romney (Utah) and Ben Sasse (Neb.) at an event paid for by the NRSC — and urged the party to “stick together,” with Trump as the de facto leader.

“They cheat like hell, and they stick together,” Trump said of Democrats. “The Republican Party has to stick together.”

And he reiterated his claims that the 2020 vote was tainted by fraud, praising GOP-controlled states that have passed new voting restrictions since then.

“It’s a terrible thing what they did in Georgia and other states,” he said.

“You look at Texas, you look at a lot of states — they are correcting all the ways we were all abused over the last election . . . last two elections if you think about it,” Trump added.

In a statement Thursday, Trump spokesman Taylor Budo­wich said, “There is no one in the country that does more to increase voter engagement and participation than President Trump. Through his endorsements and massive Save America rallies, President Trump is single-handedly rebuilding the Republican Party at the ballot box.”

Republicans running in competitive general elections, such as Virginia gubernatorial candidate Glenn Youngkin, have been wary of tying themselves too closely to Trump’s claims about the 2020 election, while trying not to do anything that would spark Trump’s ire and turn off his supporters.

On Wednesday, Trump gave Youngkin a full-throated endorsement when he called in to a small rally for the GOP ticket in Virginia headlined by former White House strategist Stephen K. Bannon.

Youngkin did not attend or sponsor the event, which began with the crowd pledging allegiance to a flag that the emcee said had been flown at a rally for Trump on Jan. 6, when his supporters attacked the U.S. Capitol.

But Youngkin’s Democratic rival, former Virginia governor ­Terry McAuliffe, nonetheless pounced Thursday, calling on the Republican candidate to publicly denounce the act of pledging allegiance to “a flag that was used to bring down our country.”

“If that is the case, then we shouldn’t pledge allegiance to that flag,” Youngkin said later in response. “I have been so clear: There is no place for violence — none, none — in America today.”

Other Republicans worry that the debates over the 2020 election will bleed into election season next year, in a way that will hurt the GOP.

“Right now, if the party focuses on Afghanistan, inflation, the border, crime — we are going to win big,” said Rep. Don Bacon (R-Neb.), who represents a swing district outside Omaha. “If the party wants to make it about the election is rigged, we will lose. Independent voters don’t respond well to that. If we keep the focus right, I think we’re going to win big in 2022.”

But Trump has been unrelenting, sending out a blizzard of statements attacking state and local officials in Arizona and Michigan who he claims have failed to investigate election irregularities.

“Hopefully, each one of these cowardly RINOs, whose names will be identified and forthcoming, will be primaried,” he said in one recent message about Michigan lawmakers, using an acronym for Republicans in Name Only.

He has also increasingly aligned himself with those who took part in the Capitol attack, recording a video this month to wish happy birthday to Ashli Babbitt, the rioter fatally shot by police. Trump called her “a truly incredible person” and called on the Justice Department to reopen its investigation into her death.

The former president has repeatedly raised the idea of the “rigged” election with candidates seeking his endorsement, and has backed a slate of GOP contenders across the country who back his claims.

Earlier this month, Trump threw his support behind a mayoral candidate in Hialeah, Fla., who told the Miami Herald that he believes there was “widespread fraud” in 2020 but that it is “very difficult to prove.”

GOP candidates across the country have been forced to answer questions on the topic. Former vice president Mike Pence, who was threatened by a mob of Trump supporters on Jan. 6, has struggled about what to say about voter fraud since then, according to advisers and allies.

Other potential Republican presidential candidates have tried to thread the needle. In a speech to donors in California this summer, former secretary of state Mike Pompeo tried to nod at voter fraud without fully backing Trump’s claims, according to audio reviewed by The Post.

“It’s hard to figure out the math on that,” Pompeo says, according to the audio, when a donor asks him incredulously how Biden won. “These elections were imperfect. There’s no doubt about that.”

Much of the party’s power structure has given Trump leeway to prosecute his false election case, without explicitly endorsing it. The National Republican Congressional Committee (NRCC), the House GOP campaign arm, is running ads on Facebook that fully embrace a Trump return to the White House, a clear sign that he commands the support of small-dollar donors.

“Trump won’t run for President unless we take back the House!” some of the spots declare. “There’s NO shot we win without your help.”

Another recent fundraising email from the group threatened donors who had not yet contributed, saying, “You’re a traitor. You abandoned Trump.” The message added that they would “be branded a deserter” unless they contributed to the House effort.

Some Trump advisers were livid about the email, saying the rhetoric was off-putting and could alienate supporters. “The tone was totally inappropriate,” one of them said.

The NRSC, meanwhile, has been offering donors the chance to get “Official Trump Majority Membership,” promising invites to a “closed-door, in-person strategy meeting with Trump” and asking people to add their names to petitions that show support of “Trump’s Social Media site,” even though Trump has not rolled out a new social media site.

“The president is going to headline our fall dinner. He remains the biggest draw in our party and we are happy he is helping our efforts to fire [House Speaker] Nancy Pelosi,” NRCC Chairman Tom Emmer (R-Minn.) said Thursday in a call with reporters.

Asked to respond to Trump’s threat against Republicans who don’t embrace his election fraud narrative, Emmer demurred.

“The former president, he’s a private citizen,” Emmer said. “He, of course, is entitled to his own opinion.”

Trump listens to the crowd at the Iowa State Fairgrounds on Oct. 9. (Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post)
Some Trump allies have encouraged the Republican National Committee and party committees to make election fraud more of an issue in 2024, and the party has stepped up its “election integrity” efforts, hiring people in battleground states across the country. In a presentation to donors earlier this year, RNC Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel said “election integrity” was one of the party’s top priorities — and that the committee would be creating a program for 2022.

At the NRSC conference in Palm Beach on Thursday, donors and lobbyists were treated to a presentation on polling that showed Republicans were in a strong spot to take back the Senate, and that Biden’s poll numbers had dropped, particularly among independents, according to people familiar with research. The agenda did not include any panels on election fraud, but instead offered donors a golf session with Jack Nicklaus and discussions about how Republicans are performing on digital fundraising, foreign policy and infrastructure.

In Trump’s address, one of the final events of the retreat, the former president focused on re-litigating grievances he has retained since leaving office.

He called Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Senate Majority Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) “maniacs” and described his presidency as a fight for survival.

“It was all phony s---, okay. All phony stuff,” he said of the Democratic impeachment efforts and the investigation of his ties to Russia.

Unprompted, he brought up an unsubstantiated claim he had interactions with prostitutes in Moscow before he ran for president.

“I’m not into golden showers,” he told the crowd. “You know the great thing, our great first lady — ‘That one,’ she said, ‘I don’t believe that one.’ ”


After extensively praising Chinese President Xi Jinping for his intellect and touting his good relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin, he also returned to his long-standing hatred of windmills, referencing a new plan by the Biden administration to expand the number of offshore wind turbines.

“It’s so sad when you see that they are approving these windmills — worst form of energy, the most expensive,” he said. “You talk about carbon emissions, well they are making them. More goes into the air than if you ran something for 30 years.”

When operating properly, wind turbines do not create carbon emissions as a result of electricity generation, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration.
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dislaxxic
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Re: 2024

Post by dislaxxic »

Biden's agenda may end up falling apart — but the GOP is eating itself alive
As anyone could have predicted, much of the media is once again obsessed with the "Democrats are in disarray" storyline, a perennial favorite that makes it easy to preserve the preferred conventional wisdom that says the right may be authoritarian bigots but at least they aren't the dizzy dingbats of the left. Republicans don't even have to make the trains run on time anymore.

Right now, the Democrats are doing the most tedious of all political tasks: trying to pass complicated legislation with a coalition that includes a handful of officials who look in the mirror every morning and see a superstar looking back at them. There is no politician on Earth who does not have a healthy ego, but these are people who live for headlines like this one: Manchin Lays Down Demands for Child Tax Credit.

This is hardly a unique characteristic of the Democratic Party. We only have to look back at the famous moment back in 2017 when GOP Senator John McCain of Arizona, dying of cancer and filled with loathing for President Donald Trump, dramatically gestured thumbs down and defeated the repeal of the Affordable Care Act. Still, it is true that Democrats are particularly prone to exceedingly tiresome haggling over legislation, but that's because they actually want to do things. The Republican agenda is pretty much confined to confirming judges and cutting taxes so they tend to get those things done quite efficiently, no negotiating required.

So the Biden Agenda may end up falling apart. It was always going to be a heavy lift to do big things with such a narrow majority. But they still might pull it off and if the process is messy and exhausting it's just how progress happens. If one wants an example of a political party that's in a state of full-blown internal chaos, just look to the right and check out what's going on in the GOP. Sure, Republicans are in lock-step obstruction mode in Congress, fighting anything and everything the Democrats are trying to do. But the party is actually eating itself alive, so energetically in fact that the media is beginning to take notice.
..
"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog." - Calvin, to Hobbes
seacoaster
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Re: 2024

Post by seacoaster »

What is the likelihood of violence during the 2024 election? Not looking good for us right now:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/12/us/p ... toric.html

"At a conservative rally in western Idaho last month, a young man stepped up to a microphone to ask when he could start killing Democrats.

“When do we get to use the guns?” he said as the audience applauded. “How many elections are they going to steal before we kill these people?” The local state representative, a Republican, later called it a “fair” question.

In Ohio, the leading candidate in the Republican primary for Senate blasted out a video urging Republicans to resist the “tyranny” of a federal government that pushed them to wear masks and take F.D.A.-authorized vaccines.

“When the Gestapo show up at your front door,” the candidate, Josh Mandel, a grandson of Holocaust survivors, said in the video in September, “you know what to do.”


And in Congress, violent threats against lawmakers are on track to double this year. Republicans who break party ranks and defy former President Donald J. Trump have come to expect insults, invective and death threats — often stoked by their own colleagues and conservative activists, who have denounced them as traitors.

From congressional offices to community meeting rooms, threats of violence are becoming commonplace among a significant segment of the Republican Party. Ten months after rioters attacked the United States Capitol on Jan. 6, and after four years of a president who often spoke in violent terms about his adversaries, right-wing Republicans are talking more openly and frequently about the use of force as justifiable in opposition to those who dislodged him from power.

In Washington, where decorum and civility are still given lip service, violent or threatening language still remains uncommon, if not unheard-of, among lawmakers who spend a great deal of time in the same building. But among the most fervent conservatives, who play an outsize role in primary contests and provide the party with its activist energy, the belief that the country is at a crossroads that could require armed confrontation is no longer limited to the fringe.

Political violence has been part of the American story since the founding of the country, often entwined with racial politics and erupting in periods of great change: More than 70 brawls, duels and other violent incidents embroiled members of Congress from 1830 to 1860 alone. And elements of the left have contributed to the confrontational tenor of the country’s current politics, though Democratic leaders routinely condemn violence and violent imagery.

But historians and those who study democracy say what has changed has been the embrace of violent speech by a sizable portion of one party, including some of its loudest voices inside government and most influential voices outside.

In effect, they warn, the Republican Party is mainstreaming menace as a political tool.

Omar Wasow, a political scientist at Pomona College who studies protests and race, drew a contrast between the current climate and earlier periods of turbulence and strife, like the 1960s or the run-up to the Civil War.

“What’s different about almost all those other events is that now, there’s a partisan divide around the legitimacy of our political system,” he said. “The elite endorsement of political violence from factions of the Republican Party is distinct for me from what we saw in the 1960s. Then, you didn’t have — from a president on down — politicians calling citizens to engage in violent resistance.”

From his earliest campaigning to the final moments of his presidency, Mr. Trump’s political image has incorporated the possibility of violence. He encouraged attendees at his rallies to “knock the hell” out of protesters, praised a lawmaker who body-slammed a reporter, and in a recent interview defended rioters who clamored to “hang Mike Pence.”

Yet even with the former president largely out of the public eye and after a deadly attack on the Capitol where rioters tried to overturn the presidential election, the Republican acceptance of violence has only spread. Polling indicates that 30 percent of Republicans, and 40 percent of people who “most trust” far-right news sources, believe that “true patriots” may have to resort to violence to “save” the country — a statement that gets far less support among Democrats and independents.

Such views, routinely expressed in warlike or revolutionary terms, are often intertwined with white racial resentments and evangelical Christian religious fervor — two potent sources of fuel for the G.O.P. during the Trump era — as the most animated Republican voters increasingly see themselves as participants in a struggle, if not a kind of holy war, to preserve their idea of American culture and their place in society.

Notably few Republican leaders have spoken out against violent language or behavior since Jan. 6, suggesting with their silent acquiescence that doing so would put them at odds with a significant share of their party’s voters. When the Idaho man asked about “killing” political opponents at an event hosted by the conservative activist Charlie Kirk, Mr. Kirk said he must “denounce” the question but went on to discuss at what point political violence could be justified.

In that vacuum, the coarsening of Republican messaging has continued: Representative Paul Gosar, Republican of Arizona, this week tweeted an anime video altered to show him killing Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and swinging two swords at Mr. Biden.

Lee Drutman, a senior fellow at the left-leaning group New America who has studied political violence, said there was a connection between such actions and the growing view among Americans that politics is a struggle between enemies.

“When you start dehumanizing political opponents, or really anybody, it becomes a lot easier to inflict violence on them,” Dr. Drutman said.

“I have a hard time seeing how we have a peaceful 2024 election after everything that’s happened now,” he added. “I don’t see the rhetoric turning down, I don’t see the conflicts going away. I really do think it’s hard to see how it gets better before it gets worse.”

Democrats are seeking Mr. Gosar’s censure, arguing that “depictions of violence can foment actual violence and jeopardize the safety of elected officials.”

The ranking G.O.P. lawmakers, Senator Mitch McConnell and Representative Kevin McCarthy, did not respond to repeated requests for comment. Mr. McCarthy, who initially condemned the Jan. 6 attack and said “violence is never a legitimate form of protest,” more recently has joked about hitting Nancy Pelosi in the head with a gavel if he were to replace her as speaker. Like nearly all of the members of his caucus, Mr. McCarthy has said nothing about Mr. Gosar’s video.

For his part, Mr. Gosar suggested that critics were overly thin-skinned, insisting that the video was an allegory for a debate over immigration policy. He was slaying “the policy monster of open borders,” not Ms. Ocasio-Cortez or Mr. Biden, his office said. “It is a symbolic cartoon. It is not real life.”

Carlos Curbelo, a Republican former congressman from Florida who is a critic of Mr. Trump, said Republicans needed to take a stronger approach against violent language and intimidation tactics.

“I do think the problem is more acute among Republicans because there are a handful of Republican officials who have no limits,” he said. “Your country and your integrity should be more important to you than your re-election.”

The increasing violence of Republican speech has been accompanied by a willingness of G.O.P. leaders to follow Mr. Trump’s lead and shrug off allegations of domestic violence that once would have been considered disqualifying for political candidates in either party.

Herschel Walker, the former professional football player running for Senate in Georgia, is accused of repeatedly threatening his ex-wife’s life, but won Mr. Trump’s endorsement and appears to be consolidating party support behind his candidacy. Mr. Trump also backed the Ohio congressional campaign of Max Miller, who faces allegations of violence from his ex-girlfriend, the former White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham. Mr. Miller has sued Ms. Grisham for defamation.

And Sean Parnell, a Senate candidate in Pennsylvania who was endorsed by Mr. Trump, appeared in court this week in a custody fight in which his estranged wife accuses him of choking her and physically harming their children. He denies it.

Senator Rick Scott of Florida, the chairman of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, declined to repudiate Mr. Parnell. Asked on CNN whether Mr. Parnell was the right candidate for the job, he said, “We’ll see who comes out of the primary.”

There is little indication that the party has paid a political price for its increasingly violent tone.

Even after corporations and donors vowed to withhold donations to the G.O.P. in the wake of the Jan. 6 attack, Republicans out-raised Democrats this year. And they outperformed expectations in the elections this month, capturing the Virginia governorship, winning a host of upset victories in suburban contests and making a surprisingly strong showing in New Jersey.

Yet violent talk has tipped over into actual violence in ways big and small. School board members and public health officials have faced a wave of threats, prompting hundreds to leave their posts. A recent investigation by Reuters documented nearly 800 intimidating messages to election officials in 12 states.

And threats against members of Congress have jumped by 107 percent compared with the same period in 2020, according to the Capitol Police. Lawmakers have been harassed at airports, targeted at their homes and had family members threatened. Some have spent tens of thousands on personal security.

“You don’t understand how awful it is and how scary it is until you’re in it,” said Representative Debbie Dingell, a Michigan Democrat who praised a Republican colleague, Representative Fred Upton, for publicly sharing some of the threats he received after voting to approve the infrastructure bill. (Mr. Upton’s office did not respond to requests for comment.) “But not telling people that this violence isn’t OK makes people think it is OK.”

Ms. Dingell, who said she was threatened by men with assault weapons outside her home last year after she was denounced by Tucker Carlson on his Fox News show, shared a small sample of what she said were hundreds of profanity-laden threats she has received.

“They ought to try you for treason,” one caller screamed in a lengthy, graphic voice mail message. “I hope your family dies in front of you. I pray to God that if you’ve got any children, they die in your face.”

Bradford Fitch, president of the Congressional Management Foundation, which advises lawmakers on issues like running their offices and communicating with constituents, said he now urged members not to hold open public meetings, an American tradition dating back to the colonies, because of security concerns. Politics, he said, had become “too raw and radioactive.”

“I don’t think it’s a good idea right now,” Mr. Fitch said. “I hope we can get to a point where we can advise members of Congress that it’s safe to have a town-hall meeting.”

But even at right-wing gatherings of the like-minded, there is a shared assumption that political confrontation could escalate into violence.

At a Virginia rally last month for conservative supporters of Glenn Youngkin, the Republican candidate for governor, the urgency of a call to arms was conveyed right from the opening prayer. The speaker warned of the looming threat of “communist atheists.”

“Heavenly Father, we come before you tonight,” said Joshua Pratt, a conservative activist. “Your children are in a battle, and we need your help.”
User avatar
MDlaxfan76
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Re: 2024

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

The fever hasn't broken, "there's a storm coming".
seacoaster
Posts: 8866
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:36 pm

Re: 2024

Post by seacoaster »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:54 am The fever hasn't broken, "there's a storm coming".
I assume these seemingly disparate statements will get the soft peddle here from the usual suspects, but the increasing absence of response to and condemnation of these expressions of violence as a response to a bad day at the ballot box are cancerous. When will folks realize we are in trouble?
tech37
Posts: 4394
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:02 pm

Re: 2024

Post by tech37 »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:54 am The fever hasn't broken, "there's a storm coming".
So long as you guys admit the "fever" affects both the extreme left and right. It's all dangerous. But the NYT cheery picking doesn't help anyone except maybe the NYT. This is starting all over again with the MSM raising the temperature, creating the "storm".
Peter Brown
Posts: 12878
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:19 am

Re: 2024

Post by Peter Brown »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:54 am The fever hasn't broken, "there's a storm coming".


:roll: :roll:

What sadly plaintive projection and obtuseness.

Ever heard of James Hodgkinson? Micah Xavier Johnson? Michael Reinoehl?

Antifa? Black Guerilla Family? BLM? Nation of Islam?

Did you catch the violence the last few years in DC, NYC, Philadelphia, Chicago, Minneapolis, KENOSHA?! Seattle, Portland?

Should we travel back in time to The Weather Underground? Black Panthers?

Did you catch the Baltimore riots of 2015? I have photos of military humvees patrolling the inner harbor if you need to refresh your memory.

Do you know who David Dorn is? Lorne Ahrens? Michael Krol? Patricio "Patrick" Zamarripa? Michael Smith? Brent Thompson?

Do you know why the National Guard has been called out in Wisconsin for next week? Who is that governor scared of? Hint: it’s not the right.
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