What is the role of this Forum(Posters) when it comes to Athletes?

[Justalaxdad]

ONW - come on, let’s not act like you and others don’t learn about all these transfers as soon as the teams announce them and once it is, you will know her name and teams involved, so yes Larry did attack her with his comments - like “she’s not even the best in her conference, how in the hell will she suddenly blossom at the new school”, eye roll and laughing emojis, etc…Fine, but at that point Larry put HIMSELF out there for rebuttal and he doesn’t want to debate it from that point on and wants to takes it to PM, and that’s his prerogative. Truth is, in the past few days, many people have disagreed with Larry and told him he was out of line, but yet he keeps coming back at them IN THE PUBLIC FORUM in his typical “I’m right, I have the facts”, condescending way and not on PMs. Why? Because he will argue till the sun goes down when he thinks he’s right, but he takes it to PM when he knows he’s wrong in an attempt to silence the ensuing conversation.

You make compelling points. Well said.

Thanks and by the way, your comments and what you bring to the forum is something I always look forward to when I come on.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

You make compelling points. Well said.

Thanks and by the way, your comments and what you bring to the forum is something I always look forward to when I come on.

Much appreciated. Thank you.

[livelovelax]

Criticizing players should be off limits. They are not pros. You want to question the school, conference, officials or coaches…….fine.

[howdyyall]

Criticizing players should be off limits. They are not pros. You want to question the school, conference, officials or coaches…….fine.

I’ve heard this argument before and I’ve always found it a bit curious. If we were talking about under-18 HS players that would seem more reasonable. But these are adults. There are similar aged players who are pros in other sports around the world and in the USA, whether it’s tennis/soccer or the MLB and NBA; and these individuals are certainly critiqued quite harshly often on all different platforms. There are even professional 20-21 years who have and do play in the NFL. The only difference I can see is these players (American specific) who are same-aged can make money to bypass college altogether, or leave early, and currently Wlax doesn’t have such an option. And this is a lacrosse forum so we don’t need to even venture into other industries (acting, music, etc) where people younger than 18 are critiqued very often.

So I am curious if you could elaborate on why players can’t be criticized.

And one tangent question related is how do you view NIL deals in relation to critique. I remember the story about the Fresno state Womens basketball twins who were on the billboard in Times Square who are making more than the Fresno school president, among others (https://mwwire.com/2021/07/03/fresno-st ... all-coach/).

This deal certainly makes them public figures (although they really were before) and makes for an interesting landscape for how we view these topics. Public figures get critiqued, why should being in ‘college’ protect them. Very curious to see thoughts from everyone on this topic

[Matnum PI]

I’ve heard this argument before and I’ve always found it a bit curious. If we were talking about under-18 HS players that would seem more reasonable. But these are adults... So I am curious if you could elaborate on why players can’t be criticized.

Howdyyall, FWIW, we had this discussion a while back when we first launched this Forum and, basically, what you're voicing was the general consensus.

[Matnum PI]

Fresno state Womens basketball twins (https://mwwire.com/2021/07/03/fresno-st ... all-coach/).

wow. watching the convergence of social media and college athletes is pretty amazing...

[LarryGamLax]

Criticizing players should be off limits. They are not pros. You want to question the school, conference, officials or coaches…….fine.

I’ve heard this argument before and I’ve always found it a bit curious. If we were talking about under-18 HS players that would seem more reasonable. But these are adults. There are similar aged players who are pros in other sports around the world and in the USA, whether it’s tennis/soccer or the MLB and NBA; and these individuals are certainly critiqued quite harshly often on all different platforms. There are even professional 20-21 years who have and do play in the NFL. The only difference I can see is these players (American specific) who are same-aged can make money to bypass college altogether, or leave early, and currently Wlax doesn’t have such an option. And this is a lacrosse forum so we don’t need to even venture into other industries (acting, music, etc) where people younger than 18 are critiqued very often.

So I am curious if you could elaborate on why players can’t be criticized.

And one tangent question related is how do you view NIL deals in relation to critique. I remember the story about the Fresno state Womens basketball twins who were on the billboard in Times Square who are making more than the Fresno school president, among others (https://mwwire.com/2021/07/03/fresno-st ... all-coach/).

This deal certainly makes them public figures (although they really were before) and makes for an interesting landscape for how we view these topics. Public figures get critiqued, why should being in ‘college’ protect them. Very curious to see thoughts from everyone on this topic

Obviously I agree, and again all one has to do is listen to and watch people during a College Football or Basketball game. Talk about harsh comments! Go read the Men's College Lax Forum(especially during the season) on this site, but if you have a weak heart...don't do it!
So the rules are : 1) say whatever you want about male athletes at any level because they are tough and can take it 2) only positive comments about females are allowed because they are fragile, can't take it, and their relatives and chivalrous males will emerge from the woodwork to verbally thrash you.

Does that sum it up nicely?

[Justalaxdad]

I’ve heard this argument before and I’ve always found it a bit curious. If we were talking about under-18 HS players that would seem more reasonable. But these are adults... So I am curious if you could elaborate on why players can’t be criticized.

Howdyyall, FWIW, we had this discussion a while back when we first launched this Forum and, basically, what you're voicing was the general consensus.

Once and for all and hopefully for the last time and we can all move on.

I was NOT upset about the fact that my daughter’s transfer was brought up. I would have liked for it to have been done in a less snide way than with the eye roll and smiley face emojis which suggests sarcasm from the OP. His reasoning IMO wasn’t justified because he had ZERO clue about why she chose to transfer, he had ZERO clue as to what other schools recruited her, and he had absolutely ZERO clue as to why she chose the school she did. What I can tell you is, she was recruited out of the portal from several top 20 schools who needed a player at her position and all of them pretty much had the same thing to say - how did this kid slip through the cracks of the original recruiting process? Now if ALL of those coaches are wrong about her talent (and they may very well be), then the OP will be proven correct. So, if he felt justified to talk about her the way he did, fine but then he needs to be man enough to face it when it comes back at him.

I have no problem with anyone of you ever critiquing my daughters play - if she even plays, as long as you do it in a constructive way. Not a chest-thumping “see I told you so, I’m always right” attitude. Of course they’re technically adults but let’s not pretend this is the pro sports arena so stop with those comparisons. It’s like comparing apples to bicycles. Believe it or not, honest BUT fair and constructive criticism is totally within the bounds of a forum like this.

Let’s please move on and let this be water under the bridge - there’s better things to talk about like all the great fall ball action over the next several weeks!

[wlaxphan20]

My first thought is that when a big time men's football or b-ball player announces a transfer there have already been multiple press conferences, interviews, internet and talk radio chats about who, when and why. They are monetized sports with huge professional dollar implications and the expectation going in is the spotlight is bright.

We are discussing a niche women's sport. They are different.

That being said, I'm not against criticism or playing favorites. IMO what is being dissected is assumption of personal motivation.

I agree. This was well worded.

We are talking COLLEGIATE ATHLETE, right? If you really believe in equality, then I didn't use a different set of rules when it came to talking about this transfer. Again, I divulged NO personal information about the athlete in my original post, but many seem to have missed that.

Larry, I am agreeing with the idea that what is being discussed is a collegiate athlete's personal motivations for choosing to transfer (as opposed to on-field play). Which is what it was, no? Personal information or not, it was about the athlete's personal reasons for making the decision. IMO general discussion about that stuff itself isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as judgement is kept minimal and all possibilities are considered (not just ones that show the athlete in a negative light - and this is not specific to your post).

And I agree - you did not share personal information in the original post - the one mentioning that you knew of a player transferring from a mid-major conference to a P5. And I thought that was a good point you made. The mention of a mid-major conference transfer to an ACC school that had not been officially announced yet was obscure and I didn't really have a problem with it. By the time the transfer is officially announced, I probably wouldn't have remembered your specific post and connected the two. Others who were more curious or with better memories than me may have. Further posts elaborating your thought's on the transfer didn't reveal any more personal information either.

If people want to pass judgement on how a COLLEGIATE ATHLETE chooses their own college experience, they have that right. It's always been my opinion that they owe us no explanation as to why they transfer and have zero obligation to consider fans when making the choice to transfer. It's a personal choice that is theirs alone. All these athletes are looking for a certain college experience, and it usually isn't the same for all of them. And I think that applies to revenue sports as well. Actually, the speculation for personal motivation to transfer is probably discussed less in sports like basketball and football because the reason for transfer is more obvious.

Also, I think on-field critique of players is more than fair. If it's about on-field play, chances are by the time they or their family members are reading it on here they've probably heard it from their own coaches - most of whom I do not think would sugar coat it.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Larry, I am agreeing with the idea that what is being discussed is a collegiate athlete's personal motivations for choosing to transfer (as opposed to on-field play). Which is what it was, no? Personal information or not, it was about the athlete's personal reasons for making the decision. IMO general discussion about that stuff itself isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as judgement is kept minimal and all possibilities are considered (not just ones that show the athlete in a negative light - and this is not specific to your post).

And I agree - you did not share personal information in the original post - the one mentioning that you knew of a player transferring from a mid-major conference to a P5. And I thought that was a good point you made. The mention of a mid-major conference transfer to an ACC school that had not been officially announced yet was obscure and I didn't really have a problem with it. By the time the transfer is officially announced, I probably wouldn't have remembered your specific post and connected the two. Others who were more curious or with better memories than me may have. Further posts elaborating your thought's on the transfer didn't reveal any more personal information either.

If people want to pass judgement on how a COLLEGIATE ATHLETE chooses their own college experience, they have that right. It's always been my opinion that they owe us no explanation as to why they transfer and have zero obligation to consider fans when making the choice to transfer. It's a personal choice that is theirs alone. All these athletes are looking for a certain college experience, and it usually isn't the same for all of them. And I think that applies to revenue sports as well. Actually, the speculation for personal motivation to transfer is probably discussed less in sports like basketball and football because the reason for transfer is more obvious.

Also, I think on-field critique of players is more than fair. If it's about on-field play, chances are by the time they or their family members are reading it on here they've probably heard it from their own coaches - most of whom I do not think would sugar coat it.

He did leave too much information and too much of a trail of breadcrumbs to find the player. That was indiscreet. It also did seem obvious that it was personal with this particular young woman and not just another case of calling out the latest “ring chaser”.

[wlaxphan20]

Larry, I am agreeing with the idea that what is being discussed is a collegiate athlete's personal motivations for choosing to transfer (as opposed to on-field play). Which is what it was, no? Personal information or not, it was about the athlete's personal reasons for making the decision. IMO general discussion about that stuff itself isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as judgement is kept minimal and all possibilities are considered (not just ones that show the athlete in a negative light - and this is not specific to your post).

And I agree - you did not share personal information in the original post - the one mentioning that you knew of a player transferring from a mid-major conference to a P5. And I thought that was a good point you made. The mention of a mid-major conference transfer to an ACC school that had not been officially announced yet was obscure and I didn't really have a problem with it. By the time the transfer is officially announced, I probably wouldn't have remembered your specific post and connected the two. Others who were more curious or with better memories than me may have. Further posts elaborating your thought's on the transfer didn't reveal any more personal information either.

If people want to pass judgement on how a COLLEGIATE ATHLETE chooses their own college experience, they have that right. It's always been my opinion that they owe us no explanation as to why they transfer and have zero obligation to consider fans when making the choice to transfer. It's a personal choice that is theirs alone. All these athletes are looking for a certain college experience, and it usually isn't the same for all of them. And I think that applies to revenue sports as well. Actually, the speculation for personal motivation to transfer is probably discussed less in sports like basketball and football because the reason for transfer is more obvious.

Also, I think on-field critique of players is more than fair. If it's about on-field play, chances are by the time they or their family members are reading it on here they've probably heard it from their own coaches - most of whom I do not think would sugar coat it.

He did leave too much information and too much of a trail of breadcrumbs to find the player. That was indiscreet. It also did seem obvious that it was personal with this particular young woman and not just another case of calling out the latest “ring chaser”.

The very first post, stating that he knew of a player from a mid-major transferring to a P5 conference I thought was discreet enough. Even given that small bit information, if someone really wanted to do the work and comb through rosters, they probably could've figured it out once it was announced, but I thought it was discreet enough to be respectful. No mention of the actually mid-major conference or the conference that the athlete was transferring to and no mention of the position she played. Maybe there were enough breadcrumbs for the athlete's father to find out who Larry was talking about, but it was actually the Justalaxdad's post that gave me enough information to figure out who the athlete is, what position she plays, and the program she is transferring from.

The tone of the comments referring to the player's decision/motivation/intentions to transfer I could have done without. Even if there is a transfer that is going to a different school for all the reasons you detest or think are "wrong" who cares? It's their college experience and you never know what else is going on for these athletes off the field.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

The tone of the comments referring to the player's decision/motivation/intentions to transfer I could have done without. Even if there is a transfer that is going to a different school for all the reasons you detest or think are "wrong" who cares? It's their college experience and you never know what else is going on for these athletes off the field.

In total agreement. I enjoy seeing the transfer and speculating on what impact she’ll have on her new team. As to her motives, I’m not interested.

[TNLAX]

The tone of the comments referring to the player's decision/motivation/intentions to transfer I could have done without. Even if there is a transfer that is going to a different school for all the reasons you detest or think are "wrong" who cares? It's their college experience and you never know what else is going on for these athletes off the field.

In total agreement. I enjoy seeing the transfer and speculating on what impact she’ll have on her new team. As to her motives, I’m not interested.

Am I wrong to ask who the transfer is? Seems everyone reading this forum knows but me Just curious at this point

[livelovelax]

OK FWIW, a response to my original statement is that I find it creepy and sad that any man/men would criticize a female women's lacrosse player on a forum. If you want to discuss ability in private, have at it. How about keeping it positive? Once they get NIL deals and go pro, I guess they cross over into the wearing big girl pants and maybe all bets are off but I still don't see the upside in taking girl athletes down. It makes you look smaller.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

The tone of the comments referring to the player's decision/motivation/intentions to transfer I could have done without. Even if there is a transfer that is going to a different school for all the reasons you detest or think are "wrong" who cares? It's their college experience and you never know what else is going on for these athletes off the field.

In total agreement. I enjoy seeing the transfer and speculating on what impact she’ll have on her new team. As to her motives, I’m not interested.

Am I wrong to ask who the transfer is? Seems everyone reading this forum knows but me Just curious at this point

I wouldn't say that. I, for one, have no idea who the player is.

[DMac]

I don't know who it is either and it doesn't much matter to me who it is. I know the pre med student transferred. The pre med part is enough for me to think this is a bright girl who made a decision that best suits her future. That's plenty good enough reason for me, the lacrosse part is insignificant, sounds to me as if the girl's got her priorities in the right order. JMHO.

Comernisky comes down on a fast break and chokes like a pug on a chicken bone. All she has to beat is Johansson, who is a half assed D player on a good day, and the best she can manage is weak shot at the cage that hits the pipe. Sad part is, Monteverdi, the GK, couldn't stop a beach ball tossed at her from twenty yards out. These girls are awful, maybe they should spend a little less time with their books and a little more time with their sticks.

Welcome to wlax 2022 where collegiate wlaxers are considered equally fair game for all the wannabe tough talking sportscasters and sports reporters as are the players in the NFL (this is just ridiculous).
I'm probably the most foul mouthed person here, but when in mixed company there is a drastic change in my language (despite the fact that women talk like drunken sailors these days). Treat young collegiate wlaxers differently than NFL players, you betchya. This aint hard, folks.

[howdyyall]

I’ve heard this argument before and I’ve always found it a bit curious. If we were talking about under-18 HS players that would seem more reasonable. But these are adults... So I am curious if you could elaborate on why players can’t be criticized.

Howdyyall, FWIW, we had this discussion a while back when we first launched this Forum and, basically, what you're voicing was the general consensus.

Good to know..that settles it then!

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

OK FWIW, a response to my original statement is that I find it creepy and sad that any man/men would criticize a female women's lacrosse player on a forum. If you want to discuss ability in private, have at it. How about keeping it positive? Once they get NIL deals and go pro, I guess they cross over into the wearing big girl pants and maybe all bets are off but I still don't see the upside in taking girl athletes down. It makes you look smaller.

I think that's an unrealistic expectation for an anonymous public forum; the case worsened by the negative stereotype characterization employed.

to quote the admin:

"If you don't like reading people's opinions about lacrosse teams, players and coaches...you've come to the wrong forum."

--admin Re: Syracuse 2021

[Brownlax]

ONW - come on, let’s not act like you and others don’t learn about all these transfers as soon as the teams announce them and once it is, you will know her name and teams involved, so yes Larry did attack her with his comments - like “she’s not even the best in her conference, how in the hell will she suddenly blossom at the new school”, eye roll and laughing emojis, etc…Fine, but at that point Larry put HIMSELF out there for rebuttal and he doesn’t want to debate it from that point on and wants to takes it to PM, and that’s his prerogative. Truth is, in the past few days, many people have disagreed with Larry and told him he was out of line, but yet he keeps coming back at them IN THE PUBLIC FORUM in his typical “I’m right, I have the facts”, condescending way and not on PMs. Why? Because he will argue till the sun goes down when he thinks he’s right, but he takes it to PM when he knows he’s wrong in an attempt to silence the ensuing conversation.

You make compelling points. Well said.

+1