Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

[Typical Lax Dad]

At the time my ancestors came to this country, they presented themselves at a point of entry and made a claim to stay. They departed Italy without a guarantee of admission.........sound familiar?

Most Irish and German immigrants in both the 19th and 20th Century operated similarly. Ditto for Southern and Eastern Europeans.

Lastly, the policy you reference has been articulated clearly and frequently by the Biden Administration. The misinformation you reference is being provided by other sources. I know of no better way to send the message than to promptly deport 20% of those collected at the border back to Haiti or allow them to return to Mexico (another 50% of those detained).

Our ancestors were following a lawful process, were not smuggled in, & were not claiming asylum.
Their numbers were metered via quotas established in law.

Biden's last minute deportations are too little, too late. His previous green light statements & policy changes were the GO signal.
The next surge of Haitian migrants are already in Colombia, entering the Darian Gap.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pana ... FKBN2GM0DX
Biden has created a problem for Mexico & all the Central American nations they traverse.
He turned on the magnet drawing these migrants N from their diaspora in S America.

Your peeps went through Ellis Island?

I'm not sure of their route. They came from Germany in the 1850's & the UK slightly later.
They came legally. I don't know if they entered via Ellis Island or if it was in operation yet.

You mean when there was no law…..the “lawful process” was just show up.

[old salt]

At the time my ancestors came to this country, they presented themselves at a point of entry and made a claim to stay. They departed Italy without a guarantee of admission.........sound familiar?

Most Irish and German immigrants in both the 19th and 20th Century operated similarly. Ditto for Southern and Eastern Europeans.

Lastly, the policy you reference has been articulated clearly and frequently by the Biden Administration. The misinformation you reference is being provided by other sources. I know of no better way to send the message than to promptly deport 20% of those collected at the border back to Haiti or allow them to return to Mexico (another 50% of those detained).

Our ancestors were following a lawful process, were not smuggled in, & were not claiming asylum.
Their numbers were metered via quotas established in law.

Biden's last minute deportations are too little, too late. His previous green light statements & policy changes were the GO signal.
The next surge of Haitian migrants are already in Colombia, entering the Darian Gap.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pana ... FKBN2GM0DX
Biden has created a problem for Mexico & all the Central American nations they traverse.
He turned on the magnet drawing these migrants N from their diaspora in S America.

Your peeps went through Ellis Island?

I'm not sure of their route. They came from Germany in the 1850's & the UK slightly later.
They came legally. I don't know if they entered via Ellis Island or if it was in operation yet.

You mean when there was no law…..the “lawful process” was just show up.

I think the Brits came after immigration laws were in place. They were brothers & journeymen glass workers who came specifically for pre-arranged jobs in the newly established & expanding glass works in Crystal City, Mo. The German came just prior to the Civil War as part of the large German influx in the StL area. He fought for the Union & lost a leg.

[Typical Lax Dad]

At the time my ancestors came to this country, they presented themselves at a point of entry and made a claim to stay. They departed Italy without a guarantee of admission.........sound familiar?

Most Irish and German immigrants in both the 19th and 20th Century operated similarly. Ditto for Southern and Eastern Europeans.

Lastly, the policy you reference has been articulated clearly and frequently by the Biden Administration. The misinformation you reference is being provided by other sources. I know of no better way to send the message than to promptly deport 20% of those collected at the border back to Haiti or allow them to return to Mexico (another 50% of those detained).

Our ancestors were following a lawful process, were not smuggled in, & were not claiming asylum.
Their numbers were metered via quotas established in law.

Biden's last minute deportations are too little, too late. His previous green light statements & policy changes were the GO signal.
The next surge of Haitian migrants are already in Colombia, entering the Darian Gap.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pana ... FKBN2GM0DX
Biden has created a problem for Mexico & all the Central American nations they traverse.
He turned on the magnet drawing these migrants N from their diaspora in S America.

Your peeps went through Ellis Island?

I'm not sure of their route. They came from Germany in the 1850's & the UK slightly later.
They came legally. I don't know if they entered via Ellis Island or if it was in operation yet.

You mean when there was no law…..the “lawful process” was just show up.

I think the Brits came after immigration laws were in place. They were brothers & journeymen glass workers who came specifically for pre-arranged jobs in the newly established & expanding glass works in Crystal City, Mo. The German came just prior to the Civil War as part of the large German influx in the StL area. He fought for the Union & lost a leg.

The German didn’t follow a “lawful process” and if the Brits followed shortly after, neither did they. Post 1875 there wasn’t much of a process but there were guidelines.

[old salt]

At the time my ancestors came to this country, they presented themselves at a point of entry and made a claim to stay. They departed Italy without a guarantee of admission.........sound familiar?

Most Irish and German immigrants in both the 19th and 20th Century operated similarly. Ditto for Southern and Eastern Europeans.

Lastly, the policy you reference has been articulated clearly and frequently by the Biden Administration. The misinformation you reference is being provided by other sources. I know of no better way to send the message than to promptly deport 20% of those collected at the border back to Haiti or allow them to return to Mexico (another 50% of those detained).

Our ancestors were following a lawful process, were not smuggled in, & were not claiming asylum.
Their numbers were metered via quotas established in law.

Biden's last minute deportations are too little, too late. His previous green light statements & policy changes were the GO signal.
The next surge of Haitian migrants are already in Colombia, entering the Darian Gap.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pana ... FKBN2GM0DX
Biden has created a problem for Mexico & all the Central American nations they traverse.
He turned on the magnet drawing these migrants N from their diaspora in S America.

Your peeps went through Ellis Island?

I'm not sure of their route. They came from Germany in the 1850's & the UK slightly later.
They came legally. I don't know if they entered via Ellis Island or if it was in operation yet.

You mean when there was no law…..the “lawful process” was just show up.

I think the Brits came after immigration laws were in place. They were brothers & journeymen glass workers who came specifically for pre-arranged jobs in the newly established & expanding glass works in Crystal City, Mo. The German came just prior to the Civil War as part of the large German influx in the StL area. He fought for the Union & lost a leg.

The German didn’t follow a “lawful process” and if the Brits followed shortly after, neither did they. Post 1875 there wasn’t much of a process but there were guidelines.

None of them violated law by entering. The Brits likely came after 1875. They became US citizens somehow.

[Typical Lax Dad]

At the time my ancestors came to this country, they presented themselves at a point of entry and made a claim to stay. They departed Italy without a guarantee of admission.........sound familiar?

Most Irish and German immigrants in both the 19th and 20th Century operated similarly. Ditto for Southern and Eastern Europeans.

Lastly, the policy you reference has been articulated clearly and frequently by the Biden Administration. The misinformation you reference is being provided by other sources. I know of no better way to send the message than to promptly deport 20% of those collected at the border back to Haiti or allow them to return to Mexico (another 50% of those detained).

Our ancestors were following a lawful process, were not smuggled in, & were not claiming asylum.
Their numbers were metered via quotas established in law.

Biden's last minute deportations are too little, too late. His previous green light statements & policy changes were the GO signal.
The next surge of Haitian migrants are already in Colombia, entering the Darian Gap.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pana ... FKBN2GM0DX
Biden has created a problem for Mexico & all the Central American nations they traverse.
He turned on the magnet drawing these migrants N from their diaspora in S America.

Your peeps went through Ellis Island?

I'm not sure of their route. They came from Germany in the 1850's & the UK slightly later.
They came legally. I don't know if they entered via Ellis Island or if it was in operation yet.

You mean when there was no law…..the “lawful process” was just show up.

I think the Brits came after immigration laws were in place. They were brothers & journeymen glass workers who came specifically for pre-arranged jobs in the newly established & expanding glass works in Crystal City, Mo. The German came just prior to the Civil War as part of the large German influx in the StL area. He fought for the Union & lost a leg.

The German didn’t follow a “lawful process” and if the Brits followed shortly after, neither did they. Post 1875 there wasn’t much of a process but there were guidelines.

None of them violated law by entering. The Brits likely came after 1875. They became US citizens somehow.

There was no “lawful process”…..anyway it was a long time ago.

[a fan]

Because we can'l fix everything at once, because we can't make things perfect (right now), then we should do nothing & let our Hunger Games immigration process continue to grow.

This would make sense if the "problem" was only a few years old. It's not. It's a decades long problem.

The 10 million here right now is a gross underestimate. They are not a pressing problem

From when you sit? Sure.

Not from where I sit. Which is why we have to agree to disagree.

[Kismet]

At the time my ancestors came to this country, they presented themselves at a point of entry and made a claim to stay. They departed Italy without a guarantee of admission.........sound familiar?

Most Irish and German immigrants in both the 19th and 20th Century operated similarly. Ditto for Southern and Eastern Europeans.

Lastly, the policy you reference has been articulated clearly and frequently by the Biden Administration. The misinformation you reference is being provided by other sources. I know of no better way to send the message than to promptly deport 20% of those collected at the border back to Haiti or allow them to return to Mexico (another 50% of those detained).

Our ancestors were following a lawful process, were not smuggled in, & were not claiming asylum.
Their numbers were metered via quotas established in law.

Biden's last minute deportations are too little, too late. His previous green light statements & policy changes were the GO signal.
The next surge of Haitian migrants are already in Colombia, entering the Darian Gap.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pana ... FKBN2GM0DX
Biden has created a problem for Mexico & all the Central American nations they traverse.
He turned on the magnet drawing these migrants N from their diaspora in S America.

Your peeps went through Ellis Island?

I'm not sure of their route. They came from Germany in the 1850's & the UK slightly later.
They came legally. I don't know if they entered via Ellis Island or if it was in operation yet.

You mean when there was no law…..the “lawful process” was just show up.

I think the Brits came after immigration laws were in place. They were brothers & journeymen glass workers who came specifically for pre-arranged jobs in the newly established & expanding glass works in Crystal City, Mo. The German came just prior to the Civil War as part of the large German influx in the StL area. He fought for the Union & lost a leg.

The German didn’t follow a “lawful process” and if the Brits followed shortly after, neither did they. Post 1875 there wasn’t much of a process but there were guidelines.

None of them violated law by entering. The Brits likely came after 1875. They became US citizens somehow.

There was no “lawful process”…..anyway it was a long time ago.

Exactly.
For those with interest, I'd recommend The Guarded Gate by Daniel Okrent which documents how bigotry, eugenics and the law that kept two generations of Jews, Italians, and other European immigrants out of America - Johnson-Reed Act of 1924 was the FIRST law to actually numerically limit immigration from specific countries as well as Jews overall regardless of their origin. In fact, with regard to Jews, it was the instrument prior to WWII that prevented European Jews specifically from coming to America which resulted in their literal extermination by the Nazis in the 30s-40s. Prior to this, there were no fixed quotas except for Asians from time to time that were enforced locally through West Coast ports of entry.

As an example, my grandfather came to New York in 1909. He married an American citizen and had three kids by the mid-1920s yet did not become a US citizen until 1938. I suspect because it did not make much difference in his life. During that time, he managed to sponsor all of his siblings and his parents who also emigrated likely before 1924. They were all subsequently naturalized assuming along the same timeline. He spoke English albeit accented and his household was bilingual but he did not insist that his children or grandchildren learn the Italian language as he considered them to be American and not Italian.

https://www.amazon.com/Guarded-Gate-Eug ... 1476798036

As a country, we do not have an enviable historical record in some ways on immigration. Comparisons to the distant past don't hold much water either IMHO.

[Typical Lax Dad]

At the time my ancestors came to this country, they presented themselves at a point of entry and made a claim to stay. They departed Italy without a guarantee of admission.........sound familiar?

Most Irish and German immigrants in both the 19th and 20th Century operated similarly. Ditto for Southern and Eastern Europeans.

Lastly, the policy you reference has been articulated clearly and frequently by the Biden Administration. The misinformation you reference is being provided by other sources. I know of no better way to send the message than to promptly deport 20% of those collected at the border back to Haiti or allow them to return to Mexico (another 50% of those detained).

Our ancestors were following a lawful process, were not smuggled in, & were not claiming asylum.
Their numbers were metered via quotas established in law.

Biden's last minute deportations are too little, too late. His previous green light statements & policy changes were the GO signal.
The next surge of Haitian migrants are already in Colombia, entering the Darian Gap.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pana ... FKBN2GM0DX
Biden has created a problem for Mexico & all the Central American nations they traverse.
He turned on the magnet drawing these migrants N from their diaspora in S America.

Your peeps went through Ellis Island?

I'm not sure of their route. They came from Germany in the 1850's & the UK slightly later.
They came legally. I don't know if they entered via Ellis Island or if it was in operation yet.

You mean when there was no law…..the “lawful process” was just show up.

I think the Brits came after immigration laws were in place. They were brothers & journeymen glass workers who came specifically for pre-arranged jobs in the newly established & expanding glass works in Crystal City, Mo. The German came just prior to the Civil War as part of the large German influx in the StL area. He fought for the Union & lost a leg.

The German didn’t follow a “lawful process” and if the Brits followed shortly after, neither did they. Post 1875 there wasn’t much of a process but there were guidelines.

None of them violated law by entering. The Brits likely came after 1875. They became US citizens somehow.

There was no “lawful process”…..anyway it was a long time ago.

Exactly.
For those with interest, I'd recommend [b]The Guarded Gate[/b] by Daniel Okrent which documents how bigotry, eugenics and the law that kept two generations of Jews, Italians, and other European immigrants out of America - Johnson-Reed Act of 1924 was the FIRST law to actually numerically limit immigration from specific countries as well as Jews overall regardless of their origin. In fact, with regard to Jews, it was the instrument prior to WWII that prevented European Jews specifically from coming to America which resulted in their literal extermination by the Nazis in the 30s-40s. Prior to this, there were no fixed quotas except for Asians from time to time that were enforced locally through West Coast ports of entry.

https://www.amazon.com/Guarded-Gate-Eug ... 1476798036

And you “can’t violate any laws” if there are no laws against it.

[old salt]

Comparisons to the distant past don't hold much water either IMHO.

Then why did you bring them up ?

[MDlaxfan76]

So...we have somewhere in excess of 10 million folks (pick a # greater than 10 million) here "illegally".

But they're not a problem? They work, they go to school...they're fine?
But somehow we need to be concerned about the next batch only???
as if they won't work, go to school...??

And what's the BS about folks who came earlier being "metered"???

They came in the tens and hundreds of thousands, ultimately millions, with no invitation...the "metering" later only began as a way to keep "undesirables", Jews, Italians, etc to a quota. But they tried to come anyway...and if they managed to get through, whether smuggled or across the border, they integrated into society just as have more recent undocumented, whether across a border or overstaying a visa.

I'm not for wide open borders, nor unlimited immigration, but the nativist BS does piss me off plenty.

[Typical Lax Dad]

[MDlaxfan76]

Comparisons to the distant past don't hold much water either IMHO.

Then why did you bring them up ?

Perhaps because the vast majority of us in America, who like to consider ourselves "Americans", are the descendants of people who had no "legal" invitation to be here, indeed most fleeing some form of oppression or famine or destitution in their home country AND/OR seeking their "fortunes" in a land of perceived greater opportunity than their home country. Or are the descendants of slaves. Who among us can really claim to a greater right to be an "American"?

And if we really want to push the 'legal' status nonsense, those Europeans who were first here, indeed who came in droves, certainly had no "legal" basis for being here. For well over 100 years, every darn one of them was here "illegally" from a Native perspective. Still are...

[Typical Lax Dad]

Comparisons to the distant past don't hold much water either IMHO.

Then why did you bring them up ?

Perhaps because the vast majority of us in America, who like to consider ourselves "Americans", are the descendants of people who had no "legal" invitation to be here, indeed most fleeing some form of oppression or famine or destitution in their home country AND/OR seeking their "fortunes" in a land of perceived greater opportunity than their home country. Or are the descendants of slaves. Who among us can really claim to a greater right to be an "American"?

And if we really want to push the 'legal' status nonsense, those Europeans who were first here, indeed who came in droves, certainly had no "legal" basis for being here. For well over 100 years, every darn one of them was here "illegally" from a Native perspective. Still are...

Where do you think Missouri got its name from? Germany or Great Britain?

[old salt]

Comparisons to the distant past don't hold much water either IMHO.

Then why did you bring them up ?

Perhaps because the vast majority of us in America, who like to consider ourselves "Americans", are the descendants of people who had no "legal" invitation to be here, indeed most fleeing some form of oppression or famine or destitution in their home country AND/OR seeking their "fortunes" in a land of perceived greater opportunity than their home country. Or are the descendants of slaves. Who among us can really claim to a greater right to be an "American"?

And if we really want to push the 'legal' status nonsense, those Europeans who were first here, indeed who came in droves, certainly had no "legal" basis for being here. For well over 100 years, every darn one of them was here "illegally" from a Native perspective. Still are...

The question was not directed to you. He said that comparisons with distant past don't hold much water,
prompting me to ask why he introduced them if they do not matter.

It is just an irrelevant diversion. Instead of tying yourself in knots trying to rationalize the chaos on our southern border & our inability to control who comes into our country, why don't you just admit you want to open our borders to whoever wants to enter. We always need more cheap labor for our plantation & to better serve us. Instead of enticing all those Haitian migrants from risking their lives on the trek through the jungle in the Darian gap, let's just send a cruise ship to bring them to the US. You've already assured us what good workers they are, just hire supervisors who can speak creole.

If you think legal status in "nonsense", just admit that you think every global citizen should be free to come & go as they please, to reside & be a citizen wherever they choose.

I'm already wracked with guilt that I was born white. Now I have to shoulder even more guilt for being born in the USA. How do I atone for my good fortune ?

[old salt]

Comparisons to the distant past don't hold much water either IMHO.

Then why did you bring them up ?

Perhaps because the vast majority of us in America, who like to consider ourselves "Americans", are the descendants of people who had no "legal" invitation to be here, indeed most fleeing some form of oppression or famine or destitution in their home country AND/OR seeking their "fortunes" in a land of perceived greater opportunity than their home country. Or are the descendants of slaves. Who among us can really claim to a greater right to be an "American"?

And if we really want to push the 'legal' status nonsense, those Europeans who were first here, indeed who came in droves, certainly had no "legal" basis for being here. For well over 100 years, every darn one of them was here "illegally" from a Native perspective. Still are...

Where do you think Missouri got its name from? Germany or Great Britain?

French explorers & cartographers. Town of large canoes.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10. ... ode=ynam20

[Farfromgeneva]

Top three movie for me. And they all die in the end.

[Farfromgeneva]

Comparisons to the distant past don't hold much water either IMHO.

Then why did you bring them up ?

Perhaps because the vast majority of us in America, who like to consider ourselves "Americans", are the descendants of people who had no "legal" invitation to be here, indeed most fleeing some form of oppression or famine or destitution in their home country AND/OR seeking their "fortunes" in a land of perceived greater opportunity than their home country. Or are the descendants of slaves. Who among us can really claim to a greater right to be an "American"?

And if we really want to push the 'legal' status nonsense, those Europeans who were first here, indeed who came in droves, certainly had no "legal" basis for being here. For well over 100 years, every darn one of them was here "illegally" from a Native perspective. Still are...

The question was not directed to you. He said that comparisons with distant past don't hold much water,
prompting me to ask why he introduced them if they do not matter.

It is just an irrelevant diversion. Instead of tying yourself in knots trying to rationalize the chaos on our southern border & our inability to control who comes into our country, why don't you just admit you want to open our borders to whoever wants to enter. We always need more cheap labor for our plantation & to better serve us. Instead of enticing all those Haitian migrants from risking their lives on the trek through the jungle in the Darian gap, let's just send a cruise ship to bring them to the US. You've already assured us what good workers they are, just hire supervisors who can speak creole.

If you think legal status in "nonsense", just admit that you think every global citizen should be free to come & go as they please, to reside & be a citizen wherever they choose.

I'm already wracked with guilt that I was born white. Now I have to shoulder even more guilt for being born in the USA. How do I atone for my good fortune ?

The chaos is a function of overly restrictive border policies in the first place. It’s pretty much that simple.

What we need is more people that appreciate this country and not for stupid things like standing and holding our hand over our chests but embracing the principles of this country. That includes being a refuge from tyranny not being tyrannical. Core to our founding. Folks arguing for tighter and tighter border controls are anti American, not kapernick kneeling or such idiocy as some project. Form over function.

[Kismet]

Comparisons to the distant past don't hold much water either IMHO.

Then why did you bring them up ?

My point was that we don't have any kind of reputable record on immigration throughout the history of this country in response to your historical reference. We just rotated who those that were already here didn't want here as if their ancestors also didn't originally arrive from elsewhere initially. The first quotas by law in this country were only first passed in 1917 and updated in 1924 and they applied mostly to Eastern and Southern Europeans and Jews. The 1917 law totally excluded Asians.

https://history.state.gov/milestones/19 ... ration-act

"In all of its parts, the most basic purpose of the 1924 Immigration Act was to preserve the ideal of U.S. homogeneity. Congress revised the Act in 1952."

[Typical Lax Dad]

Comparisons to the distant past don't hold much water either IMHO.

Then why did you bring them up ?

Perhaps because the vast majority of us in America, who like to consider ourselves "Americans", are the descendants of people who had no "legal" invitation to be here, indeed most fleeing some form of oppression or famine or destitution in their home country AND/OR seeking their "fortunes" in a land of perceived greater opportunity than their home country. Or are the descendants of slaves. Who among us can really claim to a greater right to be an "American"?

And if we really want to push the 'legal' status nonsense, those Europeans who were first here, indeed who came in droves, certainly had no "legal" basis for being here. For well over 100 years, every darn one of them was here "illegally" from a Native perspective. Still are...

Where do you think Missouri got its name from? Germany or Great Britain?

French explorers & cartographers. Town of large canoes.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10. ... ode=ynam20

Forked tongue dudes: https://www.sos.mo.gov/archives/history/history

[Farfromgeneva]

Comparisons to the distant past don't hold much water either IMHO.

Then why did you bring them up ?

My point was that we don't have any kind of reputable record on immigration throughout the history of this country in response to your historical reference. We just rotated who those that were already here didn't want here as if their ancestors also didn't originally arrive from elsewhere initially. The first quotas by law in this country were only first passed in 1917 and updated in 1924 and they applied mostly to Eastern and Southern Europeans and Jews. The 1917 law totally excluded Asians.

https://history.state.gov/milestones/19 ... ration-act

"In all of its parts, the most basic purpose of the 1924 Immigration Act was to preserve the ideal of U.S. homogeneity. Congress revised the Act in 1952."

We should just adopt Irish for all of us. Black Irish (my family), Yellow Irish, Irish for all!