Johns Hopkins 2022

[MrLax2U]

Why is the discussion always about JHU going D-3. Why isn't the contingency plan to make the entire sports program D-1?

The better question is why doesn't all college lacrosse play under D 3 regs? I can understand D 1 football and basketball but the other sports don't pay their way. And why does a great school like Hopkins have to pay somebody to play a sport?

[Big Dog]

Why is the discussion always about JHU going D-3. Why isn't the contingency plan to make the entire sports program D-1?

I think they would need a bigger stadium for that. There are a lot of resources you have to have to go D-1 across the board.
Doubtful Hopkins would go that route. They're a small school and want to stay that way.

Not to small to run D1 programs if Daniels wanted to invest: Hop has the same undergraduate enrollment as Stanford. (That said, Stanford tried to use covid as an excuse to cut sports and shrink their athletic budget.)

[jhu06]

This is why we're supposed to have independent professional journalists-to put to bed the shots quint has repeatedly taken at daniels-baker and that petro and his allies took on the way out about the lack of support and future of the program.

If you've been reading this forum and following daniels comments in public and he has a q/a zoom w/alumni in a few weeks you'd see that going d1 in everything/dropping to d3 in lax are up there w/adding a law school, dropping the s in johns and building a 69 foot statue to honor trumps corona response on the universities current to do list. If I really wanted to I guess I could ask him directly on the zoom to address some of the things we've discussed here-his views on athletics, how he feels the big ten and hopkins match, and we could go on or perhaps those of you on the call can ask.

I'm fascinated by what's going on behind the scenes as PM had his first in person recruiting/evaluating summer and how parents/coaches/recruits feel he's aquitting himself and what the difference is between Petro's style and focuses. Obviously cuse has added a lot more kids.

[HopFan16]

Of course winning cures all ills but the new staff is starting to win over some of the Petro era holdouts. Not all of them obviously. I talked to one recently whom I graduated with (midfielder on early 2010s teams) and he said he's had a few conversations with PM and likes him and they all love Koesterer—not a huge surprise. Alumni weekend coming up is a good opportunity to further mend some fences. My biggest hope is that they let HOB film.

On a less positive note the Ivies are recruiting very well—Penn just landed the top middie in the class. We lost one of the kids who visited Homewood to Harvard. I also just watched a video on YouTube of Connor Shellenberger giving one of these lax influencer bros a tour of his home and he's still got a Hopkins lacrosse banner hanging on the wall. Parents must have been (still are?) big Blue Jay fans. What could have been.

[nyjay]

Why is the discussion always about JHU going D-3. Why isn't the contingency plan to make the entire sports program D-1?

I think they would need a bigger stadium for that. There are a lot of resources you have to have to go D-1 across the board.
Doubtful Hopkins would go that route. They're a small school and want to stay that way.

Not to small to run D1 programs if Daniels wanted to invest: Hop has the same undergraduate enrollment as Stanford. (That said, Stanford tried to use covid as an excuse to cut sports and shrink their athletic budget.)

Stanford as D1 is always amazing to me, especially given the number of teams they field and how generally good they are. I've never actually done the math, but a very, very large percentage of their undergrad student body has to be athletes. Plus it makes it basically impossible for non-athletes to get in at all. Not that I'm bitter about that 30 years later or anything.

[nyjay]

Of course winning cures all ills but the new staff is starting to win over some of the Petro era holdouts. Not all of them obviously. I talked to one recently whom I graduated with (midfielder on early 2010s teams) and he said he's had a few conversations with PM and likes him and they all love Koesterer—not a huge surprise. Alumni weekend coming up is a good opportunity to further mend some fences. My biggest hope is that they let HOB film.

On a less positive note the Ivies are recruiting very well—Penn just landed the top middie in the class. We lost one of the kids who visited Homewood to Harvard. I also just watched a video on YouTube of Connor Shellenberger giving one of these lax influencer bros a tour of his home and he's still got a Hopkins lacrosse banner hanging on the wall. Parents must have been (still are?) big Blue Jay fans. What could have been.

Good for Penn. Would have much preferred Hop, but happy to see Penn rather than one of the usual suspects.

[nyjay]

Why is the discussion always about JHU going D-3. Why isn't the contingency plan to make the entire sports program D-1?

I think they would need a bigger stadium for that. There are a lot of resources you have to have to go D-1 across the board.
Doubtful Hopkins would go that route. They're a small school and want to stay that way.

Not to small to run D1 programs if Daniels wanted to invest: Hop has the same undergraduate enrollment as Stanford. (That said, Stanford tried to use covid as an excuse to cut sports and shrink their athletic budget.)

Stanford as D1 is always amazing to me, especially given the number of teams they field and how generally good they are. I've never actually done the math, but a very, very large percentage of their undergrad student body has to be athletes. Plus it makes it basically impossible for non-athletes to get in at all. Not that I'm bitter about that 30 years later or anything.

But if that had worked out, I probably wouldn't be spending my time on this board with all of you. So, silver linings, I guess.

[blue angels]

Why is the discussion always about JHU going D-3. Why isn't the contingency plan to make the entire sports program D-1?

The better question is why doesn't all college lacrosse play under D 3 regs? I can understand D 1 football and basketball but the other sports don't pay their way. And why does a great school like Hopkins have to pay somebody to play a sport?

Short answer…….Most traditional D1 lacrosse schools don’t want to play under D3 regs. If the Hop decision makers decide D3 is where they should be, then, that’s their decision. Long ago, W & L made the decision to go D3. It certainly hasn’t hurt W & L academically. It is also a very strong academic, small, Private school with a better social life. Maybe, Hop, should consider whether they would be better off doing the same

[nyjay]

Longish article re Luke Martin's commitment. Not a lot of real news, but interesting nonetheless.

https://boys.team91lacrosse.com/23-band ... s-hopkins/

[Ruffled_Feathers]

Hopkins is actually large enough for Division I. Doubt Hopkins would ever build large Division I facilities for football or basketball, but there are local stadiums and arenas that could be leased.

DocBarrister

Everything I had ever found on the internet in recent years indicates stadium size requirements for FCS schools were done away with many years ago at the D1 level. So as long as you weren't an FBS football school your facilities were irrelevant. At this point other than the ability/desire to offer scholarships in all sports I don't believe there is any particular requirement keeping almost any school no matter what size from being D1.

All you have to do is go take a look at other smallish universities that play D1 lacrosse or potentially have another recognizable D1 sport. Aside from maybe the basketball court you think the Mount out in Emmitsburg has better sports facilities for most of their teams than you find at Homewood?

[Farfromgeneva]

Hopkins is actually large enough for Division I. Doubt Hopkins would ever build large Division I facilities for football or basketball, but there are local stadiums and arenas that could be leased.

DocBarrister

Everything I had ever found on the internet in recent years indicates stadium size requirements for FCS schools were done away with many years ago at the D1 level. So as long as you weren't an FBS football school your facilities were irrelevant. At this point other than the ability/desire to offer scholarships in all sports I don't believe there is any particular requirement keeping almost any school no matter what size from being D1.

All you have to do is go take a look at other smallish universities that play D1 lacrosse or potentially have another recognizable D1 sport. Aside from maybe the basketball court you think the Mount out in Emmitsburg has better sports facilities for most of their teams than you find at Homewood?

Title IX - its a huge problem at hobart to run a D1 lacrosse budget and carry 90-95 kids (think roster is smaller around 80-85 this year). Travel, other resources and support. No offset until they allow the ladies lingerie league for college women. Trust me I'd be an early adopter and already a long time advocate of that.

[jhu06]

Longish article re Luke Martin's commitment. Not a lot of real news, but interesting nonetheless.

https://boys.team91lacrosse.com/23-band ... s-hopkins/

martin mentioned lax alumni engagement in there which was good to see after the shade the younger lax alumni threw at PM last spring. His brother is a big piece next spring and if we can have an all conference worthy ssdm 1 that will be a big help. Bloomberg has his detractors including me on some fronts but that times higher ed ranking shows that his $ is making a difference on campus according to outside folks who study those things.

[Ruffled_Feathers]

Everything I had ever found on the internet in recent years indicates stadium size requirements for FCS schools were done away with many years ago at the D1 level. So as long as you weren't an FBS football school your facilities were irrelevant. At this point other than the ability/desire to offer scholarships in all sports I don't believe there is any particular requirement keeping almost any school no matter what size from being D1.

All you have to do is go take a look at other smallish universities that play D1 lacrosse or potentially have another recognizable D1 sport. Aside from maybe the basketball court you think the Mount out in Emmitsburg has better sports facilities for most of their teams than you find at Homewood?

Title IX - its a huge problem at hobart to run a D1 lacrosse budget and carry 90-95 kids (think roster is smaller around 80-85 this year). Travel, other resources and support. No offset until they allow the ladies lingerie league for college women. Trust me I'd be an early adopter and already a long time advocate of that.

Oh sure but its not like you don't have Title IX requirements as a D3 institution as well. There is already a balancing act going on even at that level. So sure there is more of a money commitment involved when we start talking scholarships at a D1 level and you may even need to add a womens sports or cut a mens sport to further improve your compliance. There is/was always going to have to be some changes if this were to ever come to pass but the idea that you need to have a hulking 30,000 seat football stadium isn't one of them.

[Farfromgeneva]

Fair enough but I bet the incremental opex is probably $1MM (say going from $300 - $500k to $1.25-$1.25MM) if I had to guess. 60 schollies don't know if there's any offset, lets say you only offer half that and arent real competitive and call the "cost" $25k that's $750k.

[44WeWantMore]

But you do not HAVE to give football scholarships:

It’s impossible to know how many football scholarships are awarded each year, as not every program is fully funded and able to give out the maximum number of scholarships.
https://www.ncsasports.org/football/scholarships

And note that the average FCS and D-III team size is identical.

But, then we might go from one of the best D-III teams to one of the worst FCS teams.

[DocBarrister]

Hopkins is actually large enough for Division I. Doubt Hopkins would ever build large Division I facilities for football or basketball, but there are local stadiums and arenas that could be leased.

DocBarrister

Everything I had ever found on the internet in recent years indicates stadium size requirements for FCS schools were done away with many years ago at the D1 level. So as long as you weren't an FBS football school your facilities were irrelevant. At this point other than the ability/desire to offer scholarships in all sports I don't believe there is any particular requirement keeping almost any school no matter what size from being D1.

All you have to do is go take a look at other smallish universities that play D1 lacrosse or potentially have another recognizable D1 sport. Aside from maybe the basketball court you think the Mount out in Emmitsburg has better sports facilities for most of their teams than you find at Homewood?

Screw FCS … I want Johns Hopkins football playing Alabama, Clemson, and LSU. We need Bloomberg to fund a 75,000-seat state-of-the-art Bloomberg Field with a retractable roof, shopping mall, media center, and convention facilities. We can build Bloomberg Field on the Loyola campus, after we purchase and bulldoze our Charles Street neighbors.

DocBarrister

[InsiderRoll]

Hopkins is actually large enough for Division I. Doubt Hopkins would ever build large Division I facilities for football or basketball, but there are local stadiums and arenas that could be leased.

DocBarrister

Everything I had ever found on the internet in recent years indicates stadium size requirements for FCS schools were done away with many years ago at the D1 level. So as long as you weren't an FBS football school your facilities were irrelevant. At this point other than the ability/desire to offer scholarships in all sports I don't believe there is any particular requirement keeping almost any school no matter what size from being D1.

All you have to do is go take a look at other smallish universities that play D1 lacrosse or potentially have another recognizable D1 sport. Aside from maybe the basketball court you think the Mount out in Emmitsburg has better sports facilities for most of their teams than you find at Homewood?

Title IX - its a huge problem at hobart to run a D1 lacrosse budget and carry 90-95 kids (think roster is smaller around 80-85 this year). Travel, other resources and support. No offset until they allow the ladies lingerie league for college women. Trust me I'd be an early adopter and already a long time advocate of that.

Ew

[Farfromgeneva]

But you do not HAVE to give football scholarships:

It’s impossible to know how many football scholarships are awarded each year, as not every program is fully funded and able to give out the maximum number of scholarships.
https://www.ncsasports.org/football/scholarships

And note that the average FCS and D-III team size is identical.

But, then we might go from one of the best D-III teams to one of the worst FCS teams.

If the max is like 63 and you want to be competitive you’re giving at least 25-30 to not be a joke. And making the transition with all the operational and FTE resource investment to suck would be an atrocious strategic decision on any level.

[Farfromgeneva]

Hopkins is actually large enough for Division I. Doubt Hopkins would ever build large Division I facilities for football or basketball, but there are local stadiums and arenas that could be leased.

DocBarrister

Everything I had ever found on the internet in recent years indicates stadium size requirements for FCS schools were done away with many years ago at the D1 level. So as long as you weren't an FBS football school your facilities were irrelevant. At this point other than the ability/desire to offer scholarships in all sports I don't believe there is any particular requirement keeping almost any school no matter what size from being D1.

All you have to do is go take a look at other smallish universities that play D1 lacrosse or potentially have another recognizable D1 sport. Aside from maybe the basketball court you think the Mount out in Emmitsburg has better sports facilities for most of their teams than you find at Homewood?

Screw FCS … I want Johns Hopkins football playing Alabama, Clemson, and LSU. We need Bloomberg to fund a 75,000-seat state-of-the-art Bloomberg Field with a retractable roof, shopping mall, media center, and convention facilities. We can build Bloomberg Field on the Loyola campus, after we purchase and bulldoze our Charles Street neighbors.

DocBarrister

You just made fun of hobart competing with one hand tied behind their backs in D1 and want to have Hop try? Has to be in jest.

[DocBarrister]

Hopkins is actually large enough for Division I. Doubt Hopkins would ever build large Division I facilities for football or basketball, but there are local stadiums and arenas that could be leased.

DocBarrister

Everything I had ever found on the internet in recent years indicates stadium size requirements for FCS schools were done away with many years ago at the D1 level. So as long as you weren't an FBS football school your facilities were irrelevant. At this point other than the ability/desire to offer scholarships in all sports I don't believe there is any particular requirement keeping almost any school no matter what size from being D1.

All you have to do is go take a look at other smallish universities that play D1 lacrosse or potentially have another recognizable D1 sport. Aside from maybe the basketball court you think the Mount out in Emmitsburg has better sports facilities for most of their teams than you find at Homewood?

Screw FCS … I want Johns Hopkins football playing Alabama, Clemson, and LSU. We need Bloomberg to fund a 75,000-seat state-of-the-art Bloomberg Field with a retractable roof, shopping mall, media center, and convention facilities. We can build Bloomberg Field on the Loyola campus, after we purchase and bulldoze our Charles Street neighbors.

DocBarrister

You just made fun of hobart competing with one hand tied behind their backs in D1 and want to have Hop try? Has to be in jest.

C’mon … which is better, a top ten ranking in U.S. News & World Report or a top ten ranking in the AP football poll?

Exactly.

DocBarrister