Big Ten 2022

[a fan]

Disagree about tOSU and Rutgers. Both are not highly ranked as nice looking campuses. Michigan academics is far above either. Now perhaps lax bros are turning into SEC-type recruits who don't care about school, but for anyone who considers schooling UM....

Well, not all elite players are book smart, right? So sometimes lesser academics are a better fit.

Fair point on the academics, but Ohio State has a nice campus, if you ask me. Never been to Rutgers...so I'll take your word for it!

[HopFan16]

If the recruiting rankings are your metric, Michigan has as much talent on its roster as anyone in the Big Ten.

Great news, glad to hear it. Which Michigan attackman is as good as Bernhardt?

.....that's fine—but that doesn't change the fact that Michigan has been recruiting very well in terms of getting its fair share of the most sought-after guys. So perhaps they haven't quite found the right guys, but the argument that they are still having trouble making a "sales pitch" to recruits is absolute nonsense.

Great----name the elite players on Michigan's 2021 roster.

They're having trouble getting elite players. Just like every other "also ran" that's missing Final Fours by a mile......no shame in that, and Michigan is getting some fine players. But 'fine players' doesn't get you to Final Fours, or multiple wins in a buzzsaw conference.

I have no clue how this is even an argument.

You said its "sales pitch" doesn't work for recruits. That's wrong. Have a good night!

Oh, for heaven's sake------- you're REALLY going to pretend that we're not talking about elite recruits...and just argue to argue? Dude. Using that as the bar, any time you fill your freaking recruiting class class with kids that can fog a mirror, you can say "yep, our sales pitch to recruits clearly worked---because behold, we got recruits to come to Michigan".

You can't just say "that's a fair point, obviously Maryland recruited a better attackman that the UMich crew when it came to Bernhardt"? and move on?

Yeah, have a good night, I guess.

It's not a fair point because Bernhardt committed to Maryland more than 7 years ago when John Paul was still the coach at UMich, they were a third year D1 program still playing in the ECAC coming off two consecutive 1-win seasons, and the Big Ten as a lacrosse conference didn't even exist yet. If you're saying that the Michigan of 7 years ago got badly outrecruited by Maryland, then, sure, great point I guess. But that's not really what you're saying. How do you reconcile the fact that the top FOGO on the market picked Michigan over any other school with your notion that elite recruits have no interest in Michigan?

[DocBarrister]

If Coach Tierney can build a championship program at Denver, then someone should be able to build a championship program at any Division I School.

There. Fixed it.

As is often the case, you missed the point.

DocBarrister

Oh, I get the point. There's a bunch of you who don't want to hear that Michigan isn't the super-neat recruiting draw that you think they are.

I told you this five years ago when Paul was let go, that this is a tough row to hoe....and you didn't want to hear it then, either.

And after watching UMich come nowhere close to a Final Four in their first five years.....rather than admit for even a moment that you (gasp) just might be wrong (can't do that, right? Might pass out, or something), you double down, and tell me something about some other school that has nothing to do with Michigan.

You obviously have no idea how long it takes to build a top tier Division I lacrosse program.

How long did it take Notre Dame to reach its first Final Four? I’m guessin’ a little more than five years.

DocBarrister

[a fan]

If Coach Tierney can build a championship program at Denver, then someone should be able to build a championship program at any Division I School.

There. Fixed it.

As is often the case, you missed the point.

DocBarrister

Oh, I get the point. There's a bunch of you who don't want to hear that Michigan isn't the super-neat recruiting draw that you think they are.

I told you this five years ago when Paul was let go, that this is a tough row to hoe....and you didn't want to hear it then, either.

And after watching UMich come nowhere close to a Final Four in their first five years.....rather than admit for even a moment that you (gasp) just might be wrong (can't do that, right? Might pass out, or something), you double down, and tell me something about some other school that has nothing to do with Michigan.

You obviously have no idea how long it takes to build a top tier Division I lacrosse program.

How long did it take Notre Dame to reach its first Final Four? I’m guessin’ a little more than five years.

DocBarrister

You're so desperate to admit avoid admitting being wrong, that now you're pretending you have my position.

Dude---I'm the one who told you and others that it will take time to build a top DI program at Michigan. AND told you that it might never happen. My wager with Cooter? No Final Fours in their first ten years. Other posters laughed, and of course, we're at year five, and they haven't even made the tournament.

You are the one who wrote, ""If Coach Tierney can build a championship program at Denver, then someone should be able to build a championship program at Michigan."

Implying not only that it's just not that hard to win at Title at Michigan----but that it's inevitable to win a Title at Michigan.

So which of your two contradictory statements are you going to hang your hat on?

[Laxfan#1969]

I would argue that all the big ten schools are very good schools...sure, UM gets high academic recognition, but they're not Northwestern or Stanford and they're not an Ivy...

UM has a nice campus, but so does Maryland, so does OSU, Rutgers is cool in its own way...and PSU is a great place...you ever been to Happy Valley!? It's really a great place...sure, it's out there, but it's college...college towns are for college...you can live in big cities the rest of your working life

Look, UM is a great school, not debating it...but I'd put the other schools up against it because they're not garbage schools

Hopkins is elite academically and OSU, Rutgers, PSU, Maryland...all very good schools

As far as recruiting, UM looks good in the rankings...just like their football team...how's that been working out for them...never trust recruiting rankings...maybe for the top 20 can't miss kids...after that, I'd argue that player 200 has just as good of a chance to be a star as player 50...

The Big Ten is gonna be tough, just like most years...Michigan has some nice young players...but guess what, so does the rest of this conference...

[a fan]

It's not a fair point because Bernhardt committed to Maryland more than 7 years ago when John Paul was still the coach at UMich, they were a third year D1 program still playing in the ECAC coming off two consecutive 1-win seasons, and the Big Ten as a lacrosse conference didn't even exist yet. If you're saying that the Michigan of 7 years ago got badly outrecruited by Maryland, then, sure, great point I guess. But that's not really what you're saying.

Now you're really just arguing to argue. But ok. Pick another All American from the Maryland 2021 roster. There are 7 of them. Tell me who Michigan has that's better.

How do you reconcile the fact that the top FOGO on the market picked Michigan over any other school with your notion that elite recruits have no interest in Michigan?

Now I KNOW you're just arguing to argue.

Rowlett finished 30th in Division I with a .537 winning percentage. In what world is that elite?


Come on man, you're more reasonable than this.

Maybe i'm not being clear, and you missed my earlier posts: I'm THRILLED with how Conry is doing at Michigan. He's doing a fine job, and folks need to be patient, and not have these absurd expectations for Michigan. As I wrote earlier: if I'm the AD at UMich, and I"m happy with how the kids are doing in the classroom and in the community? I'm giving Conry at least 10-15 years to get the program together.

He's doing a fine job recruiting. And the difference between a good team and a Final Four team in D1 is one or two elite players. Sometimes, you need three, depending on the year. Heck, look no further than Tambroni falling apart completely when Ament left. It's not like I'm making stuff up here....Final Four one year, 4-7 trainwreck the next full year. Welcome to D1 and BigTen Lacrosse, folks.

Michigan isn't getting those elite players yet. No big deal. Nothing to be ashamed at, and keep plugging away. I"m out....

[a fan]

I would argue that all the big ten schools are very good schools...sure, UM gets high academic recognition, but they're not Northwestern or Stanford and they're not an Ivy...

UM has a nice campus, but so does Maryland, so does OSU, Rutgers is cool in its own way...and PSU is a great place...you ever been to Happy Valley!? It's really a great place...sure, it's out there, but it's college...college towns are for college...you can live in big cities the rest of your working life

Look, UM is a great school, not debating it...but I'd put the other schools up against it because they're not garbage schools

Hopkins is elite academically and OSU, Rutgers, PSU, Maryland...all very good schools

As far as recruiting, UM looks good in the rankings...just like their football team...how's that been working out for them...never trust recruiting rankings...maybe for the top 20 can't miss kids...after that, I'd argue that player 200 has just as good of a chance to be a star as player 50...

The Big Ten is gonna be tough, just like most years...Michigan has some nice young players...but guess what, so does the rest of this conference...

Yes. Well put.

[HopFan16]

Rowlett finished 30th in Division I with a .537 winning percentage. In what world is that elite?

I'm not talking about Rowlett. Pay attention.

[wgdsr]

Rowlett finished 30th in Division I with a .537 winning percentage. In what world is that elite?

I'm not talking about Rowlett. Pay attention.

they have a recruit coming in a year or 2. or 3.

[JoeMauer89]

Disagree about tOSU and Rutgers. Both are not highly ranked as nice looking campuses. Michigan academics is far above either. Now perhaps lax bros are turning into SEC-type recruits who don't care about school, but for anyone who considers schooling UM....

Well, not all elite players are book smart, right? So sometimes lesser academics are a better fit.

Fair point on the academics, but Ohio State has a nice campus, if you ask me. Never been to Rutgers...so I'll take your word for it!

Ohio State has a beautiful campus, I went there for 5 years, believe it's wonderful in late october...

Joe

[a fan]

Rowlett finished 30th in Division I with a .537 winning percentage. In what world is that elite?

I'm not talking about Rowlett. Pay attention.

they have a recruit coming in a year or 2. or 3.

It's like he gave jhu06 his password this week.

It's obvious that we're talking past each other, hopfan16....obviously you're handing me IL recruiting issue nonsense about BS rankings and other pointless metrics.

What I'm talking about is: recruits landing at Michigan that are ACTUALLY elite D1 players, and show their skills on the field....not in the pages of Inside Lacrosse.

Michigan won 4 games in 2019. Won 3 games in 2021. They aren't getting the elite players.

[HopFan16]

What I'm talking about is: recruits landing at Michigan that are ACTUALLY elite D1 players

Nah. You were talking about how kids aren't responding to their recruiting pitch. That's what I responded to. Still wrong. It's ok.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Disagree about tOSU and Rutgers. Both are not highly ranked as nice looking campuses. Michigan academics is far above either. Now perhaps lax bros are turning into SEC-type recruits who don't care about school, but for anyone who considers schooling UM....

Well, not all elite players are book smart, right? So sometimes lesser academics are a better fit.

Fair point on the academics, but Ohio State has a nice campus, if you ask me. Never been to Rutgers...so I'll take your word for it!

Ohio State Campus is nice. Rutgers is hard to describe. Kind if cobbled together it seems. The Ohio STATE university has great graduate programs….world class.

https://news.osu.edu/15-ohio-state-grad ... ld-report/

[a fan]

What I'm talking about is: recruits landing at Michigan that are ACTUALLY elite D1 players

Nah. You were talking about how kids aren't responding to their recruiting pitch. That's what I responded to. Still wrong. It's ok.

If recruits weren't responding at all? They couldn't field a team, and would have zero of your IL neat-o recruits on their squad. But you know that, and are just having some fun with me.

And that's fine. Have great week....

[a fan]

Ohio State Campus is nice. Rutgers is hard to describe. Kind if cobbled together it seems. The Ohio STATE university has great graduate programs….world class.

https://news.osu.edu/15-ohio-state-grad ... ld-report/

Their Food Science program has been top of the heap for decades now.

Need to make your popcorn "fluffier", or your potato chips more crisp? Ohio St.

[JoeMauer89]

Disagree about tOSU and Rutgers. Both are not highly ranked as nice looking campuses. Michigan academics is far above either. Now perhaps lax bros are turning into SEC-type recruits who don't care about school, but for anyone who considers schooling UM....

Well, not all elite players are book smart, right? So sometimes lesser academics are a better fit.

Fair point on the academics, but Ohio State has a nice campus, if you ask me. Never been to Rutgers...so I'll take your word for it!

Ohio State Campus is nice. Rutgers is hard to describe. Kind if cobbled together it seems. The Ohio STATE university has great graduate programs….world class.

https://news.osu.edu/15-ohio-state-grad ... ld-report/

+1

TREMENDOUS school, great alumni network and really set me up to succeed in working world.

Joe

[Typical Lax Dad]

Disagree about tOSU and Rutgers. Both are not highly ranked as nice looking campuses. Michigan academics is far above either. Now perhaps lax bros are turning into SEC-type recruits who don't care about school, but for anyone who considers schooling UM....

Well, not all elite players are book smart, right? So sometimes lesser academics are a better fit.

Fair point on the academics, but Ohio State has a nice campus, if you ask me. Never been to Rutgers...so I'll take your word for it!

Ohio State Campus is nice. Rutgers is hard to describe. Kind if cobbled together it seems. The Ohio STATE university has great graduate programs….world class.

https://news.osu.edu/15-ohio-state-grad ... ld-report/

+1

TREMENDOUS school, great alumni network and really set me up to succeed in working world.

Joe

Those Big Ten Schools are world class research institutions. I believe OSU has a nuclear facility on campus. I believe I took a field trip.

[DocBarrister]

If Coach Tierney can build a championship program at Denver, then someone should be able to build a championship program at any Division I School.

There. Fixed it.

As is often the case, you missed the point.

DocBarrister

Oh, I get the point. There's a bunch of you who don't want to hear that Michigan isn't the super-neat recruiting draw that you think they are.

I told you this five years ago when Paul was let go, that this is a tough row to hoe....and you didn't want to hear it then, either.

And after watching UMich come nowhere close to a Final Four in their first five years.....rather than admit for even a moment that you (gasp) just might be wrong (can't do that, right? Might pass out, or something), you double down, and tell me something about some other school that has nothing to do with Michigan.

You obviously have no idea how long it takes to build a top tier Division I lacrosse program.

How long did it take Notre Dame to reach its first Final Four? I’m guessin’ a little more than five years.

DocBarrister

You're so desperate to admit avoid admitting being wrong, that now you're pretending you have my position.

Dude---I'm the one who told you and others that it will take time to build a top DI program at Michigan. AND told you that it might never happen. My wager with Cooter? No Final Fours in their first ten years. Other posters laughed, and of course, we're at year five, and they haven't even made the tournament.

You are the one who wrote, ""If Coach Tierney can build a championship program at Denver, then someone should be able to build a championship program at Michigan."

Implying not only that it's just not that hard to win at Title at Michigan----but that it's inevitable to win a Title at Michigan.

So which of your two contradictory statements are you going to hang your hat on?

You repeatedly misrepresent what others write.

Your point is pretty meaningless. It always takes time to build a top notch program from scratch.

But if your point is that Michigan has serious disadvantages compared to other programs (other than its brief history and lack of legacy), then you are mistaken. Lacrosse is pretty popular around Michigan and Canada is immediately up North. Michigan has strong academics and top-tier athletic facilities. There is much to entice HS lacrosse recruits.

Anyone watching Michigan last year knows this team has some good young talent. They beat Ohio State in the B1G tournament. I think Michigan has the potential to be a solid top-20 team next season.

DocBarrister

[NYterp09]

Disagree about tOSU and Rutgers. Both are not highly ranked as nice looking campuses. Michigan academics is far above either. Now perhaps lax bros are turning into SEC-type recruits who don't care about school, but for anyone who considers schooling UM....

Well, not all elite players are book smart, right? So sometimes lesser academics are a better fit.

Fair point on the academics, but Ohio State has a nice campus, if you ask me. Never been to Rutgers...so I'll take your word for it!

Ohio State Campus is nice. Rutgers is hard to describe. Kind if cobbled together it seems. The Ohio STATE university has great graduate programs….world class.

https://news.osu.edu/15-ohio-state-grad ... ld-report/

+1

TREMENDOUS school, great alumni network and really set me up to succeed in working world.

Joe

Those Big Ten Schools are world class research institutions. I believe OSU has a nuclear facility on campus. I believe I took a field trip.

PSU and UMD both have research reactors as well.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Disagree about tOSU and Rutgers. Both are not highly ranked as nice looking campuses. Michigan academics is far above either. Now perhaps lax bros are turning into SEC-type recruits who don't care about school, but for anyone who considers schooling UM....

Well, not all elite players are book smart, right? So sometimes lesser academics are a better fit.

Fair point on the academics, but Ohio State has a nice campus, if you ask me. Never been to Rutgers...so I'll take your word for it!

Ohio State Campus is nice. Rutgers is hard to describe. Kind if cobbled together it seems. The Ohio STATE university has great graduate programs….world class.

https://news.osu.edu/15-ohio-state-grad ... ld-report/

+1

TREMENDOUS school, great alumni network and really set me up to succeed in working world.

Joe

Those Big Ten Schools are world class research institutions. I believe OSU has a nuclear facility on campus. I believe I took a field trip.

PSU and UMD both have research reactors as well.

Thanks. I am not surprised. Those are great institutions, particularly when you get into upper level courses.