Why is this rule so often overlooked?

[Badlands]

2018-2019 NCAA Women's Lacrosse Rules

"Rule 6:
SECTION 1. The following are fouls:
. . .
p. Illegal Use of the Stick: Using the stick in a dangerous and/or intimidating manner. For example:
. . .
2. Initiating stick-to-body contact and using the shaft of the stick to hit, push or displace an opponent;"

Why do college refs seem to ignore this rule or at least selectively enforce it? How many times a game could this be called that it isn't called? 20? 30?

I'm not a fan of having stuff in rule books that isn't enforced. If it's not going to be enforced, take it out of the rulebook. The rules are long enough already. But if it's going to stay in the rulebook, then enforce it. I don't buy the argument that refs shouldn't enforce it because then there would be that many more fouls and the game would be unwatchable. The NCAA Women's Lacrosse Rules Committee and National Coordinator of Officials already issue annual memos about "Season Reminders, Rules Interpretations, and Clarifications." All they have to do is include in that memo that they'll start enforcing this rule and unless coaches want to give up an extra 20 fouls per game and 10 more FPS per game, then they need to teach their players to play proper defense and stop violating this rule. Otherwise, take it out of the rulebook.

[seacoaster]

This has been a mystery to me for years. The neglect of this rule is floating down into the high schools, and it is really not a great thing to permit, effectively, a cross check to the hips of a 14 or 15 year old kid.

[wlaxnut]

Interesting topic. Reminds me of this past NFL season where helmet to helmet contact was being called early in the season, and then as the season wore on I never saw it called.

Maybe they don’t call as many stick fouls because they feel the game is a little more watchable with the rough stuff? I don’t know, just thinking out loud to hopefully contribute to the conversation.

One thing I know—the women who play college lacrosse are brave and tough because a lot of punishment is dealt out with the sticks and yet they continue to play. I wonder how the players feel about it. It would be interesting to find out with an anonymous informal survey.

[shootingspace]

Seems like every US Lacrosse magazine picture has an illegal horizontal stick extended into the attacker. I hated seeing the bruises across the arms and ribcage of my D. Funny thing is we teach them proper technique when young and they have to re learn the improper technique in college.

[wlaxnut]

2018-2019 NCAA Women's Lacrosse Rules

"Rule 6:
SECTION 1. The following are fouls:
. . .
p. Illegal Use of the Stick: Using the stick in a dangerous and/or intimidating manner. For example:
. . .
2. Initiating stick-to-body contact and using the shaft of the stick to hit, push or displace an opponent;"

Why do college refs seem to ignore this rule or at least selectively enforce it? How many times a game could this be called that it isn't called? 20? 30?

I'm not a fan of having stuff in rule books that isn't enforced. If it's not going to be enforced, take it out of the rulebook. The rules are long enough already. But if it's going to stay in the rulebook, then enforce it. I don't buy the argument that refs shouldn't enforce it because then there would be that many more fouls and the game would be unwatchable. The NCAA Women's Lacrosse Rules Committee and National Coordinator of Officials already issue annual memos about "Season Reminders, Rules Interpretations, and Clarifications." All they have to do is include in that memo that they'll start enforcing this rule and unless coaches want to give up an extra 20 fouls per game and 10 more FPS per game, then they need to teach their players to play proper defense and stop violating this rule. Otherwise, take it out of the rulebook.

You would have loved to hear Sheehan Stanwick-Burch rail against this very topic during the Michigan/Johns Hopkins game. She just wouldn’t let up about it. She criticized the prevalence of this uncalled foul not only in the game but in the sport and she mentioned it being a problem for years now.

[Francophile]

You can rant and rave about it as much as you want (and I don't - I'm OK with it), it will be called in H.S. and allowed in college as long as it is not too flagrant (referee's discretion).

[wlaxnut]

You can rant and rave about it as much as you want (and I don't - I'm OK with it), it will be called in H.S. and allowed in college as long as it is not too flagrant (referee's discretion).

For the record, I’m okay with it too. The ladies are awfully tough and I haven’t heard of any players unions organizing a complaint.

[Badlands]

You can rant and rave about it as much as you want (and I don't - I'm OK with it), it will be called in H.S. and allowed in college as long as it is not too flagrant (referee's discretion).

For the record, I’m okay with it too. The ladies are awfully tough and I haven’t heard of any players unions organizing a complaint.

I'm not sure how you can reconcile being okay with it when you took such offense to Klagge's cross check. One thing leads to the other.

[wlaxnut]

You can rant and rave about it as much as you want (and I don't - I'm OK with it), it will be called in H.S. and allowed in college as long as it is not too flagrant (referee's discretion).

For the record, I’m okay with it too. The ladies are awfully tough and I haven’t heard of any players unions organizing a complaint.

I'm not sure how you can reconcile being okay with it when you took such offense to Klagge's cross check. One thing leads to the other.

I did? Where and/or when did I make that statement?

[Badlands]

You can rant and rave about it as much as you want (and I don't - I'm OK with it), it will be called in H.S. and allowed in college as long as it is not too flagrant (referee's discretion).

For the record, I’m okay with it too. The ladies are awfully tough and I haven’t heard of any players unions organizing a complaint.

I'm not sure how you can reconcile being okay with it when you took such offense to Klagge's cross check. One thing leads to the other.

I did? Where and/or when did I make that statement?

On March 3, you described it as a “brutal red card take down,” but I don’t intend to be critical of you. I appreciate what you bring to these discussions. My point is that I don’t think we should be tolerant of hard cross checks going uncalled (even as common fouls) because they lead to fouls like that one by the UNC player (and I apologize for misspelling her name above).

[wlaxnut]

You can rant and rave about it as much as you want (and I don't - I'm OK with it), it will be called in H.S. and allowed in college as long as it is not too flagrant (referee's discretion).

For the record, I’m okay with it too. The ladies are awfully tough and I haven’t heard of any players unions organizing a complaint.

I'm not sure how you can reconcile being okay with it when you took such offense to Klagge's cross check. One thing leads to the other.

I did? Where and/or when did I make that statement?

On March 3, you described it as a “brutal red card take down,” but I don’t intend to be critical of you. I appreciate what you bring to these discussions. My point is that I don’t think we should be tolerant of hard cross checks going uncalled (even as common fouls) because they lead to fouls like that one by the UNC player (and I apologize for misspelling her name above).

Thanks Badlands—I appreciate that. I didn’t take it that way at all.

Yes, I definitely described it as such, but I don’t disapprove of it, per se. The reason being, I can understand why it was so brutal in light of the previous events. Earlier in the game toward the end of the 2nd half, Brooke Troy leveled Marie McCool with a nasty frustration cross check. Klages on Walsh was payback not only for Troy on McCool, but Hannah Hyatt on Maggie Bill. UNC kind of had to mete out their own justice, if you will. Almost like, you’re not going to assault some of our best players and not feel a little hurt back. It’s sad to see, but these brave young ladies are human, and they get frustrated and angry and lash out like anyone else.

Anyway, that’s my view on it, for what it’s worth.

[Badlands]

SSB mentioned this exact point today in the MD-Michigan game. Mark Dixon asked what can be done about the dangerous contact and suggested new rules. She responded that the rule prohibiting cross checks is in the rulebook but it just isn't called with any consistency.

[wlaxnut]

2018-2019 NCAA Women's Lacrosse Rules

"Rule 6:
SECTION 1. The following are fouls:
. . .
p. Illegal Use of the Stick: Using the stick in a dangerous and/or intimidating manner. For example:
. . .
2. Initiating stick-to-body contact and using the shaft of the stick to hit, push or displace an opponent;"

Why do college refs seem to ignore this rule or at least selectively enforce it? How many times a game could this be called that it isn't called? 20? 30?

I'm not a fan of having stuff in rule books that isn't enforced. If it's not going to be enforced, take it out of the rulebook. The rules are long enough already. But if it's going to stay in the rulebook, then enforce it. I don't buy the argument that refs shouldn't enforce it because then there would be that many more fouls and the game would be unwatchable. The NCAA Women's Lacrosse Rules Committee and National Coordinator of Officials already issue annual memos about "Season Reminders, Rules Interpretations, and Clarifications." All they have to do is include in that memo that they'll start enforcing this rule and unless coaches want to give up an extra 20 fouls per game and 10 more FPS per game, then they need to teach their players to play proper defense and stop violating this rule. Otherwise, take it out of the rulebook.

The more I watch women's lacrosse this season, the more this is starting to really bother me, along with all the careless stick work and chippy play that the refs are either oblivious to (which if that is the case--we need new refs) or that the NCAA has told them to not worry about. Just saw Syracuse goaltender Goldstock deliberately run into and blindside a Virginia player--Lillie Kloak--while way outside her net. Kloak crashes to the turf, head smashes the ground. Then Goldstock, just like Romesburg did last year in the finals when she martial arts flipped BC's Taylor Walker to the turf, puts her hands up like, "What did I do?" while the ref gave her a yellow card. During the BC Louisville team there were vicious cross checks, sticks to the face, chippy play with players taking swipes at one another, right under the noses of the refs. Some got carded, some didn't. I'm really getting sick of it. This is starting to happen way too often in this sport. They need to start enforcing the rules or the girls are really going to start to get hurt. And I'm sure it's happening already but we're just not hearing about it.

[seacoaster]

This Syracuse-UVA game is a mystery of officiating. Really inconsistent. The mauling of Wallon should’ve been a yellow.

[rc13]

Cross checking is epidemic and will continue to be if refs continue to allow it.

[wlaxphan20]

2018-2019 NCAA Women's Lacrosse Rules

"Rule 6:
SECTION 1. The following are fouls:
. . .
p. Illegal Use of the Stick: Using the stick in a dangerous and/or intimidating manner. For example:
. . .
2. Initiating stick-to-body contact and using the shaft of the stick to hit, push or displace an opponent;"

Why do college refs seem to ignore this rule or at least selectively enforce it? How many times a game could this be called that it isn't called? 20? 30?

I'm not a fan of having stuff in rule books that isn't enforced. If it's not going to be enforced, take it out of the rulebook. The rules are long enough already. But if it's going to stay in the rulebook, then enforce it. I don't buy the argument that refs shouldn't enforce it because then there would be that many more fouls and the game would be unwatchable. The NCAA Women's Lacrosse Rules Committee and National Coordinator of Officials already issue annual memos about "Season Reminders, Rules Interpretations, and Clarifications." All they have to do is include in that memo that they'll start enforcing this rule and unless coaches want to give up an extra 20 fouls per game and 10 more FPS per game, then they need to teach their players to play proper defense and stop violating this rule. Otherwise, take it out of the rulebook.

The more I watch women's lacrosse this season, the more this is starting to really bother me, along with all the careless stick work and chippy play that the refs are either oblivious to (which if that is the case--we need new refs) or that the NCAA has told them to not worry about. Just saw Syracuse goaltender Goldstock deliberately run into and blindside a Virginia player--Lillie Kloak--while way outside her net. Kloak crashes to the turf, head smashes the ground. Then Goldstock, just like Romesburg did last year in the finals when she martial arts flipped BC's Taylor Walker to the turf, puts her hands up like, "What did I do?" while the ref gave her a yellow card. During the BC Louisville team there were vicious cross checks, sticks to the face, chippy play with players taking swipes at one another, right under the noses of the refs. Some got carded, some didn't. I'm really getting sick of it. This is starting to happen way too often in this sport. They need to start enforcing the rules or the girls are really going to start to get hurt. And I'm sure it's happening already but we're just not hearing about it.

I had written a long-winded post for this thread some time ago echoing these same sentiments and ultimately ended up not posting it. What exactly is it going to take? A serious spinal cord injury from whiplash or a blindsided cross check to the back? Traumatic Brain Injury from body-body or body-turf contact? It shouldn't need to get that far. It only takes a quick hard shove while a player is mid-stride to tear an ACL, MCL, or meniscus on landing..which is cutting into what is already a very short and precious college career.

Just an observation:
I also believe this epidemic is completely isolated at the Division 1 level. There are 15-20 cross checks a game that go uncalled in D1 that would be whistled 99.99% of the time in D2 & D3. I understand there is a jump in the level of play (but that really only exists for the top 35 or so teams in D1), but the disparity between what is and is not called is SO BIG one might think D1 has their own rule book. It's just another area of inconsistency that bothers me.