Big Ten 2022

[gymman1031]

No, that doesn’t mean he hasn’t recruited great. Don’t forget that, up until recently, lots of the talent wasn’t his.

When 3/4's of the recruits are yours, and you're 3-9? Come on. You're not doing a great job recruiting for that season. But I don't put that on Conry....it's the program that's sending elite kids elsewhere.

His team was very young last year. Mostly freshman and sophomores. Could that have been a factor? Not sure. Also, coaching has a lot to do with success and failures of a program, too.

Not to take you on a tangent, but I don't agree at all if we're talking about taking a D1 Lacrosse program to Final Fours with consistency. Recruiting is everything, with anything else being a distant fourth place.

Conry is case in point. He's a top notch, very young coach, who coached teams to multiple Final Fours, and multiple Big Ten titles. He's not winning at UMich because he doesn't have the talent , relative to Final Four teams. Period.

Could he maybe not be the coach who can get them to being a rock-solid program?

If anyone can do it, he can. But as I tried to tell you when he was hired on Laxpower----Michigan isn't the draw you think it is. And their record has shown I was correct. It's a brand new program, and it takes time to get elite recruits to show up with any regularity.

If I"m the AD at Michigan? I'm holding on to Conry for a heckuva lot longer, so long as I'm happy with how the kids are doing in the classroom as well as off the field.

I hope you are right that Conry IS, indeed, a top-notch, very young coach. But when he coached teams to multiple Final Fours and Big Ten titles, he was an assistant. Now he is a head coach. Yes, there have been several excellent assistants at high levels in all of sports who have gone on to be very fine head coaches in top conferences, too. On the other hand, there have been many rock-solid assistants at the highest levels who ended up NOT doing so well as head coaches at the same level. The difference between being a head coach and an assistant coach is like night and day. Now, as for Conry, we will see what ends up being the case for him in the long run. I do hope he is an example of a coach who ends up having done great in a top conference as both an assistant and as a head coach. Since even more of the talent will be his in 2022, and since the Wolverines were looking quite a bit improved at the end of 2021, I definitely have confidence in him. And yes, he has recruited quite well. He has gotten a tremendous amount of players who have been 4* and higher. By the way, Michigan is, indeed, the draw I think it is. Even if they haven't had great success, they are still getting lots of highly-recruited players. Think about what they have to offer. Yes, multiple other programs have the same things, but still:

-a member of one of the better conferences in College Lacrosse
-a beautiful, lacrosse-only stadium and top-notch facilities
-a beautiful campus
-one of the finest state schools in America
-one of the finest major college towns in America

Michigan is a program that has the potential to be great. Yes, regardless of the results, Conry is recruiting very well. Let's see if that can start translating into solid seasons.

More top assistants don’t work. There’s more Kerwicks, Dirrgyl and Haus than Sowell (if you want to put him in the successful bucket) and others. Tillman, Lars took multiple HC gigs, many attribute much of Lars’ success to Kirwin.

Don’t follow the rankings-Hop has top classes and did little for years with them. It’s a self fueling process so as long as folks like you prop up Mich they get kids and because those kids were on the Mich recruiting list they get ranked.

Yep. Rankings are never totally accurate. But still, with all that Michigan has to offer, there is not reason why they can't be a regular serious contender in the Big Ten and for NCAA Tournament bids.

[Farfromgeneva]

No, that doesn’t mean he hasn’t recruited great. Don’t forget that, up until recently, lots of the talent wasn’t his.

When 3/4's of the recruits are yours, and you're 3-9? Come on. You're not doing a great job recruiting for that season. But I don't put that on Conry....it's the program that's sending elite kids elsewhere.

His team was very young last year. Mostly freshman and sophomores. Could that have been a factor? Not sure. Also, coaching has a lot to do with success and failures of a program, too.

Not to take you on a tangent, but I don't agree at all if we're talking about taking a D1 Lacrosse program to Final Fours with consistency. Recruiting is everything, with anything else being a distant fourth place.

Conry is case in point. He's a top notch, very young coach, who coached teams to multiple Final Fours, and multiple Big Ten titles. He's not winning at UMich because he doesn't have the talent , relative to Final Four teams. Period.

Could he maybe not be the coach who can get them to being a rock-solid program?

If anyone can do it, he can. But as I tried to tell you when he was hired on Laxpower----Michigan isn't the draw you think it is. And their record has shown I was correct. It's a brand new program, and it takes time to get elite recruits to show up with any regularity.

If I"m the AD at Michigan? I'm holding on to Conry for a heckuva lot longer, so long as I'm happy with how the kids are doing in the classroom as well as off the field.

I hope you are right that Conry IS, indeed, a top-notch, very young coach. But when he coached teams to multiple Final Fours and Big Ten titles, he was an assistant. Now he is a head coach. Yes, there have been several excellent assistants at high levels in all of sports who have gone on to be very fine head coaches in top conferences, too. On the other hand, there have been many rock-solid assistants at the highest levels who ended up NOT doing so well as head coaches at the same level. The difference between being a head coach and an assistant coach is like night and day. Now, as for Conry, we will see what ends up being the case for him in the long run. I do hope he is an example of a coach who ends up having done great in a top conference as both an assistant and as a head coach. Since even more of the talent will be his in 2022, and since the Wolverines were looking quite a bit improved at the end of 2021, I definitely have confidence in him. And yes, he has recruited quite well. He has gotten a tremendous amount of players who have been 4* and higher. By the way, Michigan is, indeed, the draw I think it is. Even if they haven't had great success, they are still getting lots of highly-recruited players. Think about what they have to offer. Yes, multiple other programs have the same things, but still:

-a member of one of the better conferences in College Lacrosse
-a beautiful, lacrosse-only stadium and top-notch facilities
-a beautiful campus
-one of the finest state schools in America
-one of the finest major college towns in America

Michigan is a program that has the potential to be great. Yes, regardless of the results, Conry is recruiting very well. Let's see if that can start translating into solid seasons.

More top assistants don’t work. There’s more Kerwicks, Dirrgyl and Haus than Sowell (if you want to put him in the successful bucket) and others. Tillman, Lars took multiple HC gigs, many attribute much of Lars’ success to Kirwin.

Don’t follow the rankings-Hop has top classes and did little for years with them. It’s a self fueling process so as long as folks like you prop up Mich they get kids and because those kids were on the Mich recruiting list they get ranked.

Yep. Rankings are never totally accurate. But still, with all that Michigan has to offer, there is not reason why they can't be a regular serious contender in the Big Ten and for NCAA Tournament bids.

If he doesn’t make a playoff in 6 years, two more full seasons, then he should be fired right? Covid, Paul’s players, etc doesn’t justify a decade of well below .500 fun record, winning season only with inherited Paul’s guys and nothing to show for “ranked” recruits.

That should be fair. The university shouldn’t put up with less than mediocrity for a decade and pay a guy should they? 8yrs of no ROI? Six ought to be good.

[gymman1031]

No, that doesn’t mean he hasn’t recruited great. Don’t forget that, up until recently, lots of the talent wasn’t his.

When 3/4's of the recruits are yours, and you're 3-9? Come on. You're not doing a great job recruiting for that season. But I don't put that on Conry....it's the program that's sending elite kids elsewhere.

His team was very young last year. Mostly freshman and sophomores. Could that have been a factor? Not sure. Also, coaching has a lot to do with success and failures of a program, too.

Not to take you on a tangent, but I don't agree at all if we're talking about taking a D1 Lacrosse program to Final Fours with consistency. Recruiting is everything, with anything else being a distant fourth place.

Conry is case in point. He's a top notch, very young coach, who coached teams to multiple Final Fours, and multiple Big Ten titles. He's not winning at UMich because he doesn't have the talent , relative to Final Four teams. Period.

Could he maybe not be the coach who can get them to being a rock-solid program?

If anyone can do it, he can. But as I tried to tell you when he was hired on Laxpower----Michigan isn't the draw you think it is. And their record has shown I was correct. It's a brand new program, and it takes time to get elite recruits to show up with any regularity.

If I"m the AD at Michigan? I'm holding on to Conry for a heckuva lot longer, so long as I'm happy with how the kids are doing in the classroom as well as off the field.

I hope you are right that Conry IS, indeed, a top-notch, very young coach. But when he coached teams to multiple Final Fours and Big Ten titles, he was an assistant. Now he is a head coach. Yes, there have been several excellent assistants at high levels in all of sports who have gone on to be very fine head coaches in top conferences, too. On the other hand, there have been many rock-solid assistants at the highest levels who ended up NOT doing so well as head coaches at the same level. The difference between being a head coach and an assistant coach is like night and day. Now, as for Conry, we will see what ends up being the case for him in the long run. I do hope he is an example of a coach who ends up having done great in a top conference as both an assistant and as a head coach. Since even more of the talent will be his in 2022, and since the Wolverines were looking quite a bit improved at the end of 2021, I definitely have confidence in him. And yes, he has recruited quite well. He has gotten a tremendous amount of players who have been 4* and higher. By the way, Michigan is, indeed, the draw I think it is. Even if they haven't had great success, they are still getting lots of highly-recruited players. Think about what they have to offer. Yes, multiple other programs have the same things, but still:

-a member of one of the better conferences in College Lacrosse
-a beautiful, lacrosse-only stadium and top-notch facilities
-a beautiful campus
-one of the finest state schools in America
-one of the finest major college towns in America

Michigan is a program that has the potential to be great. Yes, regardless of the results, Conry is recruiting very well. Let's see if that can start translating into solid seasons.

More top assistants don’t work. There’s more Kerwicks, Dirrgyl and Haus than Sowell (if you want to put him in the successful bucket) and others. Tillman, Lars took multiple HC gigs, many attribute much of Lars’ success to Kirwin.

Don’t follow the rankings-Hop has top classes and did little for years with them. It’s a self fueling process so as long as folks like you prop up Mich they get kids and because those kids were on the Mich recruiting list they get ranked.

Yep. Rankings are never totally accurate. But still, with all that Michigan has to offer, there is not reason why they can't be a regular serious contender in the Big Ten and for NCAA Tournament bids.

If he doesn’t make a playoff in 6 years, two more full seasons, then he should be fired right? Covid, Paul’s players, etc doesn’t justify a decade of well below .500 fun record, winning season only with inherited Paul’s guys and nothing to show for “ranked” recruits.

That should be fair. The university shouldn’t put up with less than mediocrity for a decade and pay a guy should they? 8yrs of no ROI? Six ought to be good.

We will see whether or not he would get fired sans an NCAA Tournament bid by 2023. A big factor could be how much things are improved and how close they are to making it. Put it this way. The Paul's players and Covid excuses are no longer valid.

[Farfromgeneva]

No, that doesn’t mean he hasn’t recruited great. Don’t forget that, up until recently, lots of the talent wasn’t his.

When 3/4's of the recruits are yours, and you're 3-9? Come on. You're not doing a great job recruiting for that season. But I don't put that on Conry....it's the program that's sending elite kids elsewhere.

His team was very young last year. Mostly freshman and sophomores. Could that have been a factor? Not sure. Also, coaching has a lot to do with success and failures of a program, too.

Not to take you on a tangent, but I don't agree at all if we're talking about taking a D1 Lacrosse program to Final Fours with consistency. Recruiting is everything, with anything else being a distant fourth place.

Conry is case in point. He's a top notch, very young coach, who coached teams to multiple Final Fours, and multiple Big Ten titles. He's not winning at UMich because he doesn't have the talent , relative to Final Four teams. Period.

Could he maybe not be the coach who can get them to being a rock-solid program?

If anyone can do it, he can. But as I tried to tell you when he was hired on Laxpower----Michigan isn't the draw you think it is. And their record has shown I was correct. It's a brand new program, and it takes time to get elite recruits to show up with any regularity.

If I"m the AD at Michigan? I'm holding on to Conry for a heckuva lot longer, so long as I'm happy with how the kids are doing in the classroom as well as off the field.

I hope you are right that Conry IS, indeed, a top-notch, very young coach. But when he coached teams to multiple Final Fours and Big Ten titles, he was an assistant. Now he is a head coach. Yes, there have been several excellent assistants at high levels in all of sports who have gone on to be very fine head coaches in top conferences, too. On the other hand, there have been many rock-solid assistants at the highest levels who ended up NOT doing so well as head coaches at the same level. The difference between being a head coach and an assistant coach is like night and day. Now, as for Conry, we will see what ends up being the case for him in the long run. I do hope he is an example of a coach who ends up having done great in a top conference as both an assistant and as a head coach. Since even more of the talent will be his in 2022, and since the Wolverines were looking quite a bit improved at the end of 2021, I definitely have confidence in him. And yes, he has recruited quite well. He has gotten a tremendous amount of players who have been 4* and higher. By the way, Michigan is, indeed, the draw I think it is. Even if they haven't had great success, they are still getting lots of highly-recruited players. Think about what they have to offer. Yes, multiple other programs have the same things, but still:

-a member of one of the better conferences in College Lacrosse
-a beautiful, lacrosse-only stadium and top-notch facilities
-a beautiful campus
-one of the finest state schools in America
-one of the finest major college towns in America

Michigan is a program that has the potential to be great. Yes, regardless of the results, Conry is recruiting very well. Let's see if that can start translating into solid seasons.

More top assistants don’t work. There’s more Kerwicks, Dirrgyl and Haus than Sowell (if you want to put him in the successful bucket) and others. Tillman, Lars took multiple HC gigs, many attribute much of Lars’ success to Kirwin.

Don’t follow the rankings-Hop has top classes and did little for years with them. It’s a self fueling process so as long as folks like you prop up Mich they get kids and because those kids were on the Mich recruiting list they get ranked.

Yep. Rankings are never totally accurate. But still, with all that Michigan has to offer, there is not reason why they can't be a regular serious contender in the Big Ten and for NCAA Tournament bids.

If he doesn’t make a playoff in 6 years, two more full seasons, then he should be fired right? Covid, Paul’s players, etc doesn’t justify a decade of well below .500 fun record, winning season only with inherited Paul’s guys and nothing to show for “ranked” recruits.

That should be fair. The university shouldn’t put up with less than mediocrity for a decade and pay a guy should they? 8yrs of no ROI? Six ought to be good.

We will see whether or not he would get fired sans an NCAA Tournament bid by 2023. A big factor could be how much things are improved and how close they are to making it. Put it this way. The Paul's players and Covid excuses are no longer valid.

How about a 8-6 maybe one lucky good looking win against a top perceived team who’s hanging around .500 that season and basically wins over bottom 30 teams while getting clearly eh aren’t by top 30 teams?

There will be guys that argue that’s improvement but it’ll look like Paul last year and Conroy’s first with Paul’s kids and because everyone swears the potential of Michigan probably have them receiving votes or scraping 20th due to that perception bump which would be used to further justify him sticking around. That could totally happen and we’d be talking about them “getting closer” and “improvement” but if the potential is that great then they’ve wasted 15yrs and may as well shut the program down as the administration/AD hasn’t demonstrated enough care to give such a sleeping giant a fighting chance in a decade and a half?

[gymman1031]

No, that doesn’t mean he hasn’t recruited great. Don’t forget that, up until recently, lots of the talent wasn’t his.

When 3/4's of the recruits are yours, and you're 3-9? Come on. You're not doing a great job recruiting for that season. But I don't put that on Conry....it's the program that's sending elite kids elsewhere.

His team was very young last year. Mostly freshman and sophomores. Could that have been a factor? Not sure. Also, coaching has a lot to do with success and failures of a program, too.

Not to take you on a tangent, but I don't agree at all if we're talking about taking a D1 Lacrosse program to Final Fours with consistency. Recruiting is everything, with anything else being a distant fourth place.

Conry is case in point. He's a top notch, very young coach, who coached teams to multiple Final Fours, and multiple Big Ten titles. He's not winning at UMich because he doesn't have the talent , relative to Final Four teams. Period.

Could he maybe not be the coach who can get them to being a rock-solid program?

If anyone can do it, he can. But as I tried to tell you when he was hired on Laxpower----Michigan isn't the draw you think it is. And their record has shown I was correct. It's a brand new program, and it takes time to get elite recruits to show up with any regularity.

If I"m the AD at Michigan? I'm holding on to Conry for a heckuva lot longer, so long as I'm happy with how the kids are doing in the classroom as well as off the field.

I hope you are right that Conry IS, indeed, a top-notch, very young coach. But when he coached teams to multiple Final Fours and Big Ten titles, he was an assistant. Now he is a head coach. Yes, there have been several excellent assistants at high levels in all of sports who have gone on to be very fine head coaches in top conferences, too. On the other hand, there have been many rock-solid assistants at the highest levels who ended up NOT doing so well as head coaches at the same level. The difference between being a head coach and an assistant coach is like night and day. Now, as for Conry, we will see what ends up being the case for him in the long run. I do hope he is an example of a coach who ends up having done great in a top conference as both an assistant and as a head coach. Since even more of the talent will be his in 2022, and since the Wolverines were looking quite a bit improved at the end of 2021, I definitely have confidence in him. And yes, he has recruited quite well. He has gotten a tremendous amount of players who have been 4* and higher. By the way, Michigan is, indeed, the draw I think it is. Even if they haven't had great success, they are still getting lots of highly-recruited players. Think about what they have to offer. Yes, multiple other programs have the same things, but still:

-a member of one of the better conferences in College Lacrosse
-a beautiful, lacrosse-only stadium and top-notch facilities
-a beautiful campus
-one of the finest state schools in America
-one of the finest major college towns in America

Michigan is a program that has the potential to be great. Yes, regardless of the results, Conry is recruiting very well. Let's see if that can start translating into solid seasons.

More top assistants don’t work. There’s more Kerwicks, Dirrgyl and Haus than Sowell (if you want to put him in the successful bucket) and others. Tillman, Lars took multiple HC gigs, many attribute much of Lars’ success to Kirwin.

Don’t follow the rankings-Hop has top classes and did little for years with them. It’s a self fueling process so as long as folks like you prop up Mich they get kids and because those kids were on the Mich recruiting list they get ranked.

Yep. Rankings are never totally accurate. But still, with all that Michigan has to offer, there is not reason why they can't be a regular serious contender in the Big Ten and for NCAA Tournament bids.

If he doesn’t make a playoff in 6 years, two more full seasons, then he should be fired right? Covid, Paul’s players, etc doesn’t justify a decade of well below .500 fun record, winning season only with inherited Paul’s guys and nothing to show for “ranked” recruits.

That should be fair. The university shouldn’t put up with less than mediocrity for a decade and pay a guy should they? 8yrs of no ROI? Six ought to be good.

We will see whether or not he would get fired sans an NCAA Tournament bid by 2023. A big factor could be how much things are improved and how close they are to making it. Put it this way. The Paul's players and Covid excuses are no longer valid.

How about a 8-6 maybe one lucky good looking win against a top perceived team who’s hanging around .500 that season and basically wins over bottom 30 teams while getting clearly eh aren’t by top 30 teams?

There will be guys that argue that’s improvement but it’ll look like Paul last year and Conroy’s first with Paul’s kids and because everyone swears the potential of Michigan probably have them receiving votes or scraping 20th due to that perception bump which would be used to further justify him sticking around. That could totally happen and we’d be talking about them “getting closer” and “improvement” but if the potential is that great then they’ve wasted 15yrs and may as well shut the program down as the administration/AD hasn’t demonstrated enough care to give such a sleeping giant a fighting chance in a decade and a half?

Well, if they don't care enough, what a shame. However, they did care enough to build Michigan a lacrosse-only venue. And, in-terms of improvement, getting a double-digit number of wins in a season is one of the next immediate steps.

[Farfromgeneva]

No, that doesn’t mean he hasn’t recruited great. Don’t forget that, up until recently, lots of the talent wasn’t his.

When 3/4's of the recruits are yours, and you're 3-9? Come on. You're not doing a great job recruiting for that season. But I don't put that on Conry....it's the program that's sending elite kids elsewhere.

His team was very young last year. Mostly freshman and sophomores. Could that have been a factor? Not sure. Also, coaching has a lot to do with success and failures of a program, too.

Not to take you on a tangent, but I don't agree at all if we're talking about taking a D1 Lacrosse program to Final Fours with consistency. Recruiting is everything, with anything else being a distant fourth place.

Conry is case in point. He's a top notch, very young coach, who coached teams to multiple Final Fours, and multiple Big Ten titles. He's not winning at UMich because he doesn't have the talent , relative to Final Four teams. Period.

Could he maybe not be the coach who can get them to being a rock-solid program?

If anyone can do it, he can. But as I tried to tell you when he was hired on Laxpower----Michigan isn't the draw you think it is. And their record has shown I was correct. It's a brand new program, and it takes time to get elite recruits to show up with any regularity.

If I"m the AD at Michigan? I'm holding on to Conry for a heckuva lot longer, so long as I'm happy with how the kids are doing in the classroom as well as off the field.

I hope you are right that Conry IS, indeed, a top-notch, very young coach. But when he coached teams to multiple Final Fours and Big Ten titles, he was an assistant. Now he is a head coach. Yes, there have been several excellent assistants at high levels in all of sports who have gone on to be very fine head coaches in top conferences, too. On the other hand, there have been many rock-solid assistants at the highest levels who ended up NOT doing so well as head coaches at the same level. The difference between being a head coach and an assistant coach is like night and day. Now, as for Conry, we will see what ends up being the case for him in the long run. I do hope he is an example of a coach who ends up having done great in a top conference as both an assistant and as a head coach. Since even more of the talent will be his in 2022, and since the Wolverines were looking quite a bit improved at the end of 2021, I definitely have confidence in him. And yes, he has recruited quite well. He has gotten a tremendous amount of players who have been 4* and higher. By the way, Michigan is, indeed, the draw I think it is. Even if they haven't had great success, they are still getting lots of highly-recruited players. Think about what they have to offer. Yes, multiple other programs have the same things, but still:

-a member of one of the better conferences in College Lacrosse
-a beautiful, lacrosse-only stadium and top-notch facilities
-a beautiful campus
-one of the finest state schools in America
-one of the finest major college towns in America

Michigan is a program that has the potential to be great. Yes, regardless of the results, Conry is recruiting very well. Let's see if that can start translating into solid seasons.

More top assistants don’t work. There’s more Kerwicks, Dirrgyl and Haus than Sowell (if you want to put him in the successful bucket) and others. Tillman, Lars took multiple HC gigs, many attribute much of Lars’ success to Kirwin.

Don’t follow the rankings-Hop has top classes and did little for years with them. It’s a self fueling process so as long as folks like you prop up Mich they get kids and because those kids were on the Mich recruiting list they get ranked.

Yep. Rankings are never totally accurate. But still, with all that Michigan has to offer, there is not reason why they can't be a regular serious contender in the Big Ten and for NCAA Tournament bids.

If he doesn’t make a playoff in 6 years, two more full seasons, then he should be fired right? Covid, Paul’s players, etc doesn’t justify a decade of well below .500 fun record, winning season only with inherited Paul’s guys and nothing to show for “ranked” recruits.

That should be fair. The university shouldn’t put up with less than mediocrity for a decade and pay a guy should they? 8yrs of no ROI? Six ought to be good.

We will see whether or not he would get fired sans an NCAA Tournament bid by 2023. A big factor could be how much things are improved and how close they are to making it. Put it this way. The Paul's players and Covid excuses are no longer valid.

How about a 8-6 maybe one lucky good looking win against a top perceived team who’s hanging around .500 that season and basically wins over bottom 30 teams while getting clearly eh aren’t by top 30 teams?

There will be guys that argue that’s improvement but it’ll look like Paul last year and Conroy’s first with Paul’s kids and because everyone swears the potential of Michigan probably have them receiving votes or scraping 20th due to that perception bump which would be used to further justify him sticking around. That could totally happen and we’d be talking about them “getting closer” and “improvement” but if the potential is that great then they’ve wasted 15yrs and may as well shut the program down as the administration/AD hasn’t demonstrated enough care to give such a sleeping giant a fighting chance in a decade and a half?

Well, if they don't care enough, what a shame. However, they did care enough to build Michigan a lacrosse-only venue. And, in-terms of improvement, getting a double-digit number of wins in a season is one of the next immediate steps.

Then it wouldn’t be inappropriate to drop a stick a year on Lars or Tillman and let them have all the outside proceeds too.

[gymman1031]

No, that doesn’t mean he hasn’t recruited great. Don’t forget that, up until recently, lots of the talent wasn’t his.

When 3/4's of the recruits are yours, and you're 3-9? Come on. You're not doing a great job recruiting for that season. But I don't put that on Conry....it's the program that's sending elite kids elsewhere.

His team was very young last year. Mostly freshman and sophomores. Could that have been a factor? Not sure. Also, coaching has a lot to do with success and failures of a program, too.

Not to take you on a tangent, but I don't agree at all if we're talking about taking a D1 Lacrosse program to Final Fours with consistency. Recruiting is everything, with anything else being a distant fourth place.

Conry is case in point. He's a top notch, very young coach, who coached teams to multiple Final Fours, and multiple Big Ten titles. He's not winning at UMich because he doesn't have the talent , relative to Final Four teams. Period.

Could he maybe not be the coach who can get them to being a rock-solid program?

If anyone can do it, he can. But as I tried to tell you when he was hired on Laxpower----Michigan isn't the draw you think it is. And their record has shown I was correct. It's a brand new program, and it takes time to get elite recruits to show up with any regularity.

If I"m the AD at Michigan? I'm holding on to Conry for a heckuva lot longer, so long as I'm happy with how the kids are doing in the classroom as well as off the field.

I hope you are right that Conry IS, indeed, a top-notch, very young coach. But when he coached teams to multiple Final Fours and Big Ten titles, he was an assistant. Now he is a head coach. Yes, there have been several excellent assistants at high levels in all of sports who have gone on to be very fine head coaches in top conferences, too. On the other hand, there have been many rock-solid assistants at the highest levels who ended up NOT doing so well as head coaches at the same level. The difference between being a head coach and an assistant coach is like night and day. Now, as for Conry, we will see what ends up being the case for him in the long run. I do hope he is an example of a coach who ends up having done great in a top conference as both an assistant and as a head coach. Since even more of the talent will be his in 2022, and since the Wolverines were looking quite a bit improved at the end of 2021, I definitely have confidence in him. And yes, he has recruited quite well. He has gotten a tremendous amount of players who have been 4* and higher. By the way, Michigan is, indeed, the draw I think it is. Even if they haven't had great success, they are still getting lots of highly-recruited players. Think about what they have to offer. Yes, multiple other programs have the same things, but still:

-a member of one of the better conferences in College Lacrosse
-a beautiful, lacrosse-only stadium and top-notch facilities
-a beautiful campus
-one of the finest state schools in America
-one of the finest major college towns in America

Michigan is a program that has the potential to be great. Yes, regardless of the results, Conry is recruiting very well. Let's see if that can start translating into solid seasons.

More top assistants don’t work. There’s more Kerwicks, Dirrgyl and Haus than Sowell (if you want to put him in the successful bucket) and others. Tillman, Lars took multiple HC gigs, many attribute much of Lars’ success to Kirwin.

Don’t follow the rankings-Hop has top classes and did little for years with them. It’s a self fueling process so as long as folks like you prop up Mich they get kids and because those kids were on the Mich recruiting list they get ranked.

Yep. Rankings are never totally accurate. But still, with all that Michigan has to offer, there is not reason why they can't be a regular serious contender in the Big Ten and for NCAA Tournament bids.

If he doesn’t make a playoff in 6 years, two more full seasons, then he should be fired right? Covid, Paul’s players, etc doesn’t justify a decade of well below .500 fun record, winning season only with inherited Paul’s guys and nothing to show for “ranked” recruits.

That should be fair. The university shouldn’t put up with less than mediocrity for a decade and pay a guy should they? 8yrs of no ROI? Six ought to be good.

We will see whether or not he would get fired sans an NCAA Tournament bid by 2023. A big factor could be how much things are improved and how close they are to making it. Put it this way. The Paul's players and Covid excuses are no longer valid.

How about a 8-6 maybe one lucky good looking win against a top perceived team who’s hanging around .500 that season and basically wins over bottom 30 teams while getting clearly eh aren’t by top 30 teams?

There will be guys that argue that’s improvement but it’ll look like Paul last year and Conroy’s first with Paul’s kids and because everyone swears the potential of Michigan probably have them receiving votes or scraping 20th due to that perception bump which would be used to further justify him sticking around. That could totally happen and we’d be talking about them “getting closer” and “improvement” but if the potential is that great then they’ve wasted 15yrs and may as well shut the program down as the administration/AD hasn’t demonstrated enough care to give such a sleeping giant a fighting chance in a decade and a half?

Well, if they don't care enough, what a shame. However, they did care enough to build Michigan a lacrosse-only venue. And, in-terms of improvement, getting a double-digit number of wins in a season is one of the next immediate steps.

Then it wouldn’t be inappropriate to drop a stick a year on Lars or Tillman and let them have all the outside proceeds too.

Yes, Tillman and Lars started winning right away. But, then again:

-They inherited a lot more talent than Conry did.
-They have proven to be very fine head coaches. And they showed that in their previous head coaching gigs before their current jobs. Conry has yet to prove he has what it takes to be consistently successful as a head coach. While there is still hope, we can't say the jury isn't out.

Could Conry be like current Georgetown coach Kevin Warne all over again? That is, inconsistent until all the players are his? That is when Warne started doing real well. What would make it even more ironic is that both were DCs at Maryland before taking their current gigs.

[Farfromgeneva]

No, that doesn’t mean he hasn’t recruited great. Don’t forget that, up until recently, lots of the talent wasn’t his.

When 3/4's of the recruits are yours, and you're 3-9? Come on. You're not doing a great job recruiting for that season. But I don't put that on Conry....it's the program that's sending elite kids elsewhere.

His team was very young last year. Mostly freshman and sophomores. Could that have been a factor? Not sure. Also, coaching has a lot to do with success and failures of a program, too.

Not to take you on a tangent, but I don't agree at all if we're talking about taking a D1 Lacrosse program to Final Fours with consistency. Recruiting is everything, with anything else being a distant fourth place.

Conry is case in point. He's a top notch, very young coach, who coached teams to multiple Final Fours, and multiple Big Ten titles. He's not winning at UMich because he doesn't have the talent , relative to Final Four teams. Period.

Could he maybe not be the coach who can get them to being a rock-solid program?

If anyone can do it, he can. But as I tried to tell you when he was hired on Laxpower----Michigan isn't the draw you think it is. And their record has shown I was correct. It's a brand new program, and it takes time to get elite recruits to show up with any regularity.

If I"m the AD at Michigan? I'm holding on to Conry for a heckuva lot longer, so long as I'm happy with how the kids are doing in the classroom as well as off the field.

I hope you are right that Conry IS, indeed, a top-notch, very young coach. But when he coached teams to multiple Final Fours and Big Ten titles, he was an assistant. Now he is a head coach. Yes, there have been several excellent assistants at high levels in all of sports who have gone on to be very fine head coaches in top conferences, too. On the other hand, there have been many rock-solid assistants at the highest levels who ended up NOT doing so well as head coaches at the same level. The difference between being a head coach and an assistant coach is like night and day. Now, as for Conry, we will see what ends up being the case for him in the long run. I do hope he is an example of a coach who ends up having done great in a top conference as both an assistant and as a head coach. Since even more of the talent will be his in 2022, and since the Wolverines were looking quite a bit improved at the end of 2021, I definitely have confidence in him. And yes, he has recruited quite well. He has gotten a tremendous amount of players who have been 4* and higher. By the way, Michigan is, indeed, the draw I think it is. Even if they haven't had great success, they are still getting lots of highly-recruited players. Think about what they have to offer. Yes, multiple other programs have the same things, but still:

-a member of one of the better conferences in College Lacrosse
-a beautiful, lacrosse-only stadium and top-notch facilities
-a beautiful campus
-one of the finest state schools in America
-one of the finest major college towns in America

Michigan is a program that has the potential to be great. Yes, regardless of the results, Conry is recruiting very well. Let's see if that can start translating into solid seasons.

More top assistants don’t work. There’s more Kerwicks, Dirrgyl and Haus than Sowell (if you want to put him in the successful bucket) and others. Tillman, Lars took multiple HC gigs, many attribute much of Lars’ success to Kirwin.

Don’t follow the rankings-Hop has top classes and did little for years with them. It’s a self fueling process so as long as folks like you prop up Mich they get kids and because those kids were on the Mich recruiting list they get ranked.

Yep. Rankings are never totally accurate. But still, with all that Michigan has to offer, there is not reason why they can't be a regular serious contender in the Big Ten and for NCAA Tournament bids.

If he doesn’t make a playoff in 6 years, two more full seasons, then he should be fired right? Covid, Paul’s players, etc doesn’t justify a decade of well below .500 fun record, winning season only with inherited Paul’s guys and nothing to show for “ranked” recruits.

That should be fair. The university shouldn’t put up with less than mediocrity for a decade and pay a guy should they? 8yrs of no ROI? Six ought to be good.

We will see whether or not he would get fired sans an NCAA Tournament bid by 2023. A big factor could be how much things are improved and how close they are to making it. Put it this way. The Paul's players and Covid excuses are no longer valid.

How about a 8-6 maybe one lucky good looking win against a top perceived team who’s hanging around .500 that season and basically wins over bottom 30 teams while getting clearly eh aren’t by top 30 teams?

There will be guys that argue that’s improvement but it’ll look like Paul last year and Conroy’s first with Paul’s kids and because everyone swears the potential of Michigan probably have them receiving votes or scraping 20th due to that perception bump which would be used to further justify him sticking around. That could totally happen and we’d be talking about them “getting closer” and “improvement” but if the potential is that great then they’ve wasted 15yrs and may as well shut the program down as the administration/AD hasn’t demonstrated enough care to give such a sleeping giant a fighting chance in a decade and a half?

Well, if they don't care enough, what a shame. However, they did care enough to build Michigan a lacrosse-only venue. And, in-terms of improvement, getting a double-digit number of wins in a season is one of the next immediate steps.

Then it wouldn’t be inappropriate to drop a stick a year on Lars or Tillman and let them have all the outside proceeds too.

Yes, Tillman and Lars started winning right away. But, then again:

-They inherited a lot more talent than Conry did.
-They have proven to be very fine head coaches. And they showed that in their previous head coaching gigs before their current jobs. Conry has yet to prove he has what it takes to be consistently successful as a head coach. While there is still hope, we can't say the jury isn't out.

Could Conry be like current Georgetown coach Kevin Warne all over again? That is, inconsistent until all the players are his? That is when Warne started doing real well. What would make it even more ironic is that both were DCs at Maryland before taking their current gigs.

The assistant game goes both ways it would be correlation but that’s it. If you look under the hood there’s nothing Conroy has done that is really comparable W warne who inherited a program that had been to a FF and many quarters prior, has a key injury or two play some goalie losses. It wasn’t the housecleaning and GTown had a #1 ranked class under Urick that got him fired. Warne did almost the opposite and went looking for under the rock hard kids (paraphrasing his words). Conroy is recruiting the same type of NE west kids Paul was, and honestly the ones that got Urick into trouble from a “type”. You’ve used this comparison before but it’s not a great one on the steer level or with any historical context. Tillman didn’t do it at Harvard though we saw improvement and Lars was at SBU. And keep in mind both those replaced fired coaches so admin didn’t believe they were better than Mich at the time fo firing from a talent perspective. Cottle got fired for doing a lot more. Look at John Haus at UNC.

Point is to spend a decade and major capex and not go bring in a sure thing type coach or at least swing at a Tambroni type who took over for a 2-3 win Thiel team and got them quickly into the playoffs and a final four in like 7-8yrs isn’t very good management of such a sure thing platform as Michigan. They either don’t know, don’t show or just don’t care at Mich.

[a fan]

By the way, Michigan is, indeed, the draw I think it is. Even if they haven't had great success, they are still getting lots of highly-recruited players.

This is Hopkins fan logic (some of them, anyway). Yep, Michigan is getting some good recruits, and some fine lacrosse players....but you're forgetting to pay attention to Michigan's competitors. And their fellow BigTen teams are getting better recruits, across the board.

And I don't see this changing.

Think about what they have to offer. Yes, multiple other programs have the same things, but still:

-a member of one of the better conferences in College Lacrosse
-a beautiful, lacrosse-only stadium and top-notch facilities
-a beautiful campus
-one of the finest state schools in America
-one of the finest major college towns in America

Again, you're forgetting that you can say the same thing about the other BigTen Schools. And the ACC.

Except Michigan is a brand new D1 program, and is way the F out in Michigan. It takes time, and some luck, to make that sales pitch to recruits.

Btw....this sales pitch may never work, my man. Be prepared for that.

Yes, regardless of the results, Conry is recruiting very well..

Again, no he isn't. Not compared with his direct competitors. If he was recruiting very well, he sure as *hit wouldn't be winning 3 games a year.

Who on Michigan's roster is as good as Bernhardt? Or Charlambides? Or Kirst? Or Makar? Or, or, or?

When your leading scorer can't manage 30 goals in a 12 game season---and you're playing in the BigTen in the shot clock era? You're don't have the talent to win games consistently.

No shame in that, as these are fine players at Michigan----but they're a new team in a murderous conference. You better put your patient-pants on with Conry.

[DocBarrister]

By the way, Michigan is, indeed, the draw I think it is. Even if they haven't had great success, they are still getting lots of highly-recruited players.

This is Hopkins fan logic (some of them, anyway). Yep, Michigan is getting some good recruits, and some fine lacrosse players....but you're forgetting to pay attention to Michigan's competitors. And their fellow BigTen teams are getting better recruits, across the board.

And I don't see this changing.

Think about what they have to offer. Yes, multiple other programs have the same things, but still:

-a member of one of the better conferences in College Lacrosse
-a beautiful, lacrosse-only stadium and top-notch facilities
-a beautiful campus
-one of the finest state schools in America
-one of the finest major college towns in America

Again, you're forgetting that you can say the same thing about the other BigTen Schools. And the ACC.

Except Michigan is a brand new D1 program, and is way the F out in Michigan. It takes time, and some luck, to make that sales pitch to recruits.

Btw....this sales pitch may never work, my man. Be prepared for that.

Yes, regardless of the results, Conry is recruiting very well..

Again, no he isn't. Not compared with his direct competitors. If he was recruiting very well, he sure as *hit wouldn't be winning 3 games a year.

Who on Michigan's roster is as good as Bernhardt? Or Charlambides? Or Kirst? Or Makar? Or, or, or?

When your leading scorer can't manage 30 goals in a 12 game season---and you're playing in the BigTen in the shot clock era? You're don't have the talent to win games consistently.

No shame in that, as these are fine players at Michigan----but they're a new team in a murderous conference. You better put your patient-pants on with Conry.

If Coach Tierney can build a championship program at Denver, then someone should be able to build a championship program at Michigan.

Mind you, Coach Bill Tierney is the greatest lacrosse coach of his era.

Don’t know if Coach Conry is the guy who can take Michigan lacrosse to the top tier, but there is no reason why someone can’t if they have the ability and the will.

DocBarrister

[a fan]

If Coach Tierney can build a championship program at Denver, then someone should be able to build a championship program at any Division I School.

There. Fixed it.

[jhu06]

Michigan probably has the best 50 state brand of mens lax schools (I would say stanford would be first if all schools are included) as a total university- sports, academics, etc and they should've been a lot better and in particular at scooping up overlooked kids from across the great lakes. Marquette is another school that should've been a lot better given how much talent there is in the great lakes for sports like lacrosse hockey and football that require a certain huskiness and toughness.

Schools and lacrosse media should be doing a lot of fall ball coverage but that won't happen and for the Hopkins folks matt lawrence who did some of the videos and media we've seen the last several years announced on twitter he's moving to work for a golf company so not sure what coverage we'll get from homewood.

[gymman1031]

Well, once again, regardless of what conference Michigan plays in and how they do, we will get a better than ever idea on Coach Conry as a DI coach at a program in a top conference. Will and should his job be on the line? I don't think so. But, let's just say that, if Michigan doesn't show improvement, especially in how competitive they are against the better teams on their schedule, it is understandable if the doubts will be out more than ever.

I am hoping he can do it.

[HopFan16]

If the recruiting rankings are your metric, Michigan has as much talent on its roster as anyone in the Big Ten. If you think those rankings are bunk, that's fine—but that doesn't change the fact that Michigan has been recruiting very well in terms of getting its fair share of the most sought-after guys. So perhaps they haven't quite found the right guys, but the argument that they are still having trouble making a "sales pitch" to recruits is absolute nonsense. They are winning recruiting battles left and right. In this current cycle with the 2023s they just picked up IL's top ranked FOGO out of the DC area who could have picked any college he wanted and in the past probably would have wound up at Maryland, Hopkins, Navy, Virginia, etc.

[Big Dog]

By the way, Michigan is, indeed, the draw I think it is. Even if they haven't had great success, they are still getting lots of highly-recruited players.

This is Hopkins fan logic (some of them, anyway). Yep, Michigan is getting some good recruits, and some fine lacrosse players....but you're forgetting to pay attention to Michigan's competitors. And their fellow BigTen teams are getting better recruits, across the board.

And I don't see this changing.

Think about what they have to offer. Yes, multiple other programs have the same things, but still:

-a member of one of the better conferences in College Lacrosse
-a beautiful, lacrosse-only stadium and top-notch facilities
-a beautiful campus
-one of the finest state schools in America
-one of the finest major college towns in America

Again, you're forgetting that you can say the same thing about the other BigTen Schools. And the ACC.

Disagree about tOSU and Rutgers. Both are not highly ranked as nice looking campuses. Michigan academics is far above either. Now perhaps lax bros are turning into SEC-type recruits who don't care about school, but for anyone who considers schooling UM....

[a fan]

If the recruiting rankings are your metric, Michigan has as much talent on its roster as anyone in the Big Ten.

Great news, glad to hear it. Which Michigan attackman is as good as Bernhardt?

.....that's fine—but that doesn't change the fact that Michigan has been recruiting very well in terms of getting its fair share of the most sought-after guys. So perhaps they haven't quite found the right guys, but the argument that they are still having trouble making a "sales pitch" to recruits is absolute nonsense.

Great----name the elite players on Michigan's 2021 roster.

They're having trouble getting elite players. Just like every other "also ran" that's missing Final Fours by a mile......no shame in that, and Michigan is getting some fine players. But 'fine players' doesn't get you to Final Fours, or multiple wins in a buzzsaw conference.

I have no clue how this is even an argument.

[HopFan16]

If the recruiting rankings are your metric, Michigan has as much talent on its roster as anyone in the Big Ten.

Great news, glad to hear it. Which Michigan attackman is as good as Bernhardt?

.....that's fine—but that doesn't change the fact that Michigan has been recruiting very well in terms of getting its fair share of the most sought-after guys. So perhaps they haven't quite found the right guys, but the argument that they are still having trouble making a "sales pitch" to recruits is absolute nonsense.

Great----name the elite players on Michigan's 2021 roster.

They're having trouble getting elite players. Just like every other "also ran" that's missing Final Fours by a mile......no shame in that, and Michigan is getting some fine players. But 'fine players' doesn't get you to Final Fours, or multiple wins in a buzzsaw conference.

I have no clue how this is even an argument.

You said its "sales pitch" doesn't work for recruits. That's wrong. Have a good night!

[DocBarrister]

If Coach Tierney can build a championship program at Denver, then someone should be able to build a championship program at any Division I School.

There. Fixed it.

As is often the case, you missed the point.

DocBarrister

[a fan]

If the recruiting rankings are your metric, Michigan has as much talent on its roster as anyone in the Big Ten.

Great news, glad to hear it. Which Michigan attackman is as good as Bernhardt?

.....that's fine—but that doesn't change the fact that Michigan has been recruiting very well in terms of getting its fair share of the most sought-after guys. So perhaps they haven't quite found the right guys, but the argument that they are still having trouble making a "sales pitch" to recruits is absolute nonsense.

Great----name the elite players on Michigan's 2021 roster.

They're having trouble getting elite players. Just like every other "also ran" that's missing Final Fours by a mile......no shame in that, and Michigan is getting some fine players. But 'fine players' doesn't get you to Final Fours, or multiple wins in a buzzsaw conference.

I have no clue how this is even an argument.

You said its "sales pitch" doesn't work for recruits. That's wrong. Have a good night!

Oh, for heaven's sake------- you're REALLY going to pretend that we're not talking about elite recruits...and just argue to argue? Dude. Using that as the bar, any time you fill your freaking recruiting class class with kids that can fog a mirror, you can say "yep, our sales pitch to recruits clearly worked---because behold, we got recruits to come to Michigan".

You can't just say "that's a fair point, obviously Maryland recruited a better attackman that the UMich crew when it came to Bernhardt"? and move on?

Yeah, have a good night, I guess.

[a fan]

If Coach Tierney can build a championship program at Denver, then someone should be able to build a championship program at any Division I School.

There. Fixed it.

As is often the case, you missed the point.

DocBarrister

Oh, I get the point. There's a bunch of you who don't want to hear that Michigan isn't the super-neat recruiting draw that you think they are.

I told you this five years ago when Paul was let go, that this is a tough row to hoe....and you didn't want to hear it then, either.

And after watching UMich come nowhere close to a Final Four in their first five years.....rather than admit for even a moment that you (gasp) just might be wrong (can't do that, right? Might pass out, or something), you double down, and tell me something about some other school that has nothing to do with Michigan.