Beef with the polls

[Lax101]

Ward very good but important to realize that she also plays in an offensive system (Cuse weave) that is ideal for her ability to catch and shoot. Would not be nearly as productive on other top 5 teams. I would also guess that 20 percent of her goals were on fast breaks where she was the recipient of a dump off pass and would finish nicely. Did it in every BC game. Both Ward and Wurz are low attackers that will play the entire game on the offensive end of the field and will touch the ball on every possession. Wurz played fewer minutes this past year and will put up monster numbers moving forward. She is the better player in my opinion. All this said, I think it is unfair to compare them to the BC freshman who is a middie - she had one of the best freshman years ever ... was a consensus AA in a season filled with 5th years, was 1st Team All ACC, won NCAA title, and is the youngest player on the USA National Team. Quite a year by any standards and she will only get better just like Ward and Wurz.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Ward...would not be nearly as productive on other top 5 teams.

Would you please go into this in more detail? I'm intrigued.

Wurz played fewer minutes this past year and will put up monster numbers moving forward. She is the better player in my opinion.

Without a doubt. With Hoeg gone, CW will probably quarterback the offense from behind the goal. She's a tough cookie. I saw her put her nose right in the scrum on a number of occasions this season to score when the Heels needed a goal.

All this said, I think it is unfair to compare them to the BC freshman who is a middie - she had one of the best freshman years ever ... was a consensus AA in a season filled with 5th years, was 1st Team All ACC, won NCAA title, and is the youngest player on the USA National Team. Quite a year by any standards and she will only get better just like Ward and Wurz.

Agreed--the Eagles might be her team in 2023.

Just for context--the rest of the best in the ACC frosh class:

2021 Women’s Lacrosse ACC All-Freshman Team

Hunter Roman, D, Boston College
Sydney Scales, D, Boston College
Belle Smith, M, Boston College
Katie DeSimone, A, Duke
Bella Karstien, M, Louisville
Caitlyn Wurzburger, A, North Carolina
Keelin Schlageter, M, Notre Dame
Jenny Markey, M, Syracuse
Emma Ward, A, Syracuse
Mackenzie Hoeg, M, Virginia
Maggie Bostain, M, Virginia
Whitney Liebler, A, Virginia Tech

[DMac]

Would not be nearly as productive on other top 5 teams.

This would be better said followed with an IMO. If you have a talent like Emma Ward and you can't find a way to make her nearly as productive, you're not a very good coach (no need for an IMO there). I watched this girl for five minutes and said, uh oh, this girl is going to be big trouble and she was.

[Itsallgood]

Most early season polls rely heavily on how teams ended the prior season. There are several interesting things to watch with UNC. As much as everyone talks about their offense their defense has been best in the country for a few years. They lost 3 out of 4 defenders. They also lost Katie Hoeg who was their quarterback and they have a lot of new faces and transfers trying to fit in and establish themselves. It will be very interesting to see how great the early season chemistry is. There are a lot of alphas and only one ball and that ball is no longer in Katie Hoegs stick most of the game. Is that good or bad? Like most years they probably have the best talent but BC probably has better chemistry and the best player in the game.

One glaring issue for UNC is the fact that they really missed having Katrina Dowd directing the offense. Katrina worked magic when it came time for in game adjustments.

[Itsallgood]

Ward is a different player than either Wurzburger or Smith, both of whom are terrific players who had great years. But she certainly deserves mention, based on her play last year, alongside the others.

All of the players mentioned are terrific but Ward was missing (2) player that defenses always keyed on. I have to believe that with a healthy EH and a healthy MC life as a crease attacker would have been so much easier. Think of all the slides that the injured players would have caused creating so much open space for Ward. I’m excited to see all of the aforementioned players hit the field once again.

[@inthe8m]

#13 has a long way to go before she’s their quarterback.

I disagree here. #13 is everything she was touted to be and then some. She’s already capable of being the QB.

That is a very interesting theory.

[Lax101]

I'll add more of an explanation on Ward, and why IMO she would not be as productive on other teams, but please keep in mind that I like her a lot as a player. A big part of the Cuse game plan is to play an aggressive zone, cause turnovers and quickly outlet pass to their very fast middies. Very similar to a basketball fast break. Stony Brook does the same thing. Ward benefits from this a lot, so does older Tyrell. Ward sits on the crease and gets easy fast break goals. You'll see in the NCAA final that BC game planned for this and gave up only 1 fast break to Cuse. This happens less at UNC and BC. They play slower in transition even though UNC should not with their speed. Also, the weave is built for her game. She comes from the left elbow, catches a flip pass from lefty dodgers, runs off that screen and rips righty shots. Some are highlight reels and some hit the back curtain. BC and UNC play more of a traditional offense feeding from behind and dodging from up top. There is more to her game but these 2 things at Cuse benefit her tremendously. She is less of a 1v1 dodger. In high school well coached teams would match her up with a fast aggressive defender and that would negate much of her game. The "system" you play in plays a huge role. The Cuse system is perfect for her. Now, will the "system" change with KT and Kent coaching. I'm guessing the defense will not, but we will see less of the offensive weave IMO.

[wlaxphan20]

I'll add more of an explanation on Ward, and why IMO she would not be as productive on other teams, but please keep in mind that I like her a lot as a player. A big part of the Cuse game plan is to play an aggressive zone, cause turnovers and quickly outlet pass to their very fast middies. Very similar to a basketball fast break. Stony Brook does the same thing. Ward benefits from this a lot, so does older Tyrell. Ward sits on the crease and gets easy fast break goals. You'll see in the NCAA final that BC game planned for this and gave up only 1 fast break to Cuse. This happens less at UNC and BC. They play slower in transition even though UNC should not with their speed. Also, the weave is built for her game. She comes from the left elbow, catches a flip pass from lefty dodgers, runs off that screen and rips righty shots. Some are highlight reels and some hit the back curtain. BC and UNC play more of a traditional offense feeding from behind and dodging from up top. There is more to her game but these 2 things at Cuse benefit her tremendously. She is less of a 1v1 dodger. In high school well coached teams would match her up with a fast aggressive defender and that would negate much of her game. The "system" you play in plays a huge role. The Cuse system is perfect for her. Now, will the "system" change with KT and Kent coaching. I'm guessing the defense will not, but we will see less of the offensive weave IMO.

I want to preface this by saying I agree with your point that players flourish when they're in the right system & under the right coaching for their game. Halle Majorana is an example I have probably overused on this forum but it still fits. It's also very relevant in the recruiting conversation.

But the idea that Ward's just cherry picks and gets "easy goals" is what I disagree with. She has a deft touch finishing in close for sure, but she can also carry the ball off a screen (like you said) or dodge 1v1 from the top or wing. She does it enough that her game cannot be watered down to "sitting on the crease and getting easy fast break goals". You concede that there is more to her game, but immediately then turn around and say a well-coached high school team could shut her down.

And if a high school team can figure out how to cover her, how did she have this amount of success on a top 5 D1 team?

The type of play you're describing (finishing on the doorstep) is pretty much standard for many low attackers whether they're open on the doorstep from a fast break or from defenders sliding in a settled attack. Along with her 43 goals she's got 30 helpers. Seems pretty multi-dimensional to me. If she's being left alone on the doorstep that just means the attacking unit did their job (and so did she for holding her space). The whole point is to try to get "easy goals". You want shots that are good looks and high percentage. Pull the defense out of position and make them slide.

Again, I agree with what you're saying about having the right players in a system, and I don't think you meant to paint Ward in a negative light. I realize you've said you like her play several times. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say, but I disagree with the assessment of Ward's play.

[Dr. Tact]

The type of play you're describing (finishing on the doorstep) is pretty much standard for many low attackers whether they're open on the doorstep from a fast break or from defenders sliding in a settled attack. Along with her 43 goals she's got 30 helpers. Seems pretty multi-dimensional to me. If she's being left alone on the doorstep that just means the attacking unit did their job (and so did she for holding her space). The whole point is to try to get "easy goals". You want shots that are good looks and high percentage. Pull the defense out of position and make them slide.

My observation of her - much of her high probability goals are from the weave or through a pick. Her "quickness" in both feet and shot allows her to break off someone when that little space is opened by pick/weave. She then has the vision and experience to let the shot go with high probability of hitting where she wants. She is a tight/close contact player that when given the chance, wins most 1v1s. Those are not easy goals, but she does make it look easy at times. The fast break goals are a little more "easy", but still is a skill based deal and not a simple task.

Your last comment and my comments above are similar. She uses body position and quick feet to beat her defender and the adjacent, with a quick shot. Extremely hard to stop.

[DMac]

Last two comments are dead nuts on the money, IMO. To throw another element in, you now have EH and MC back, which defender are you putting on Emma now?

[Bart]

Last two comments are dead nuts on the money, IMO. To throw another element in, you now have EH and MC back, which defender are you putting on Emma now?

The HS one

[Bart]

Last two comments are dead nuts on the money, IMO. To throw another element in, you now have EH and MC back, which defender are you putting on Emma now?

The HS one

[seacoaster]

The type of play you're describing (finishing on the doorstep) is pretty much standard for many low attackers whether they're open on the doorstep from a fast break or from defenders sliding in a settled attack. Along with her 43 goals she's got 30 helpers. Seems pretty multi-dimensional to me. If she's being left alone on the doorstep that just means the attacking unit did their job (and so did she for holding her space). The whole point is to try to get "easy goals". You want shots that are good looks and high percentage. Pull the defense out of position and make them slide.

My observation of her - much of her high probability goals are from the weave or through a pick. Her "quickness" in both feet and shot allows her to break off someone when that little space is opened by pick/weave. She then has the vision and experience to let the shot go with high probability of hitting where she wants. She is a tight/close contact player that when given the chance, wins most 1v1s. Those are not easy goals, but she does make it look easy at times. The fast break goals are a little more "easy", but still is a skill based deal and not a simple task.

Your last comment and my comments above are similar. She uses body position and quick feet to beat her defender and the adjacent, with a quick shot. Extremely hard to stop.

Two good posts. +1. +1.

[Fischer]

This is a beef with the polls thread. Not an Emma ward thread. Let’s move along

[Dr. Tact]

Last two comments are dead nuts on the money, IMO. To throw another element in, you now have EH and MC back, which defender are you putting on Emma now?

This is exactly the type of match up that Cuse has had or wanted for years. The weave is just about the perfect vehicle for those types of players that can play with a girl on their shoulder/hip. Contact is almost comfortable for her and she initiates it over half the time. It (shooting off close guard) is a skillset that is not evident in all players. Emma is one, Ortega is one, Izzy is one, and to a degree CN is one.(Although I think CN uses contact to pull back and get more space for her wind up, while the original defender and slide screen the goalie.) Emma's (and others) play really parallels basketball to me, JMO.

[Dr. Tact]

This is a beef with the polls thread. Not an Emma ward thread. Let’s move along

Some of the best comments and discourse have nothing to do with the topic...or organically morph to another. Do you really have an issue with this?

[DMac]

Contact is almost comfortable for her and she initiates it over half the time. It (shooting off close guard) is a skillset that is not evident in all players. Emma is one

Another dead nuts on comment. Emma doesn't fit the mold in a couple of different ways, this is one of them. Another thing that was evident upon first seeing her was that she had played some rough and tumble with the boys. She absolutely leans on defenders and uses it to her advantage, she aint easy to deal with.

[DMac]

This is a beef with the polls thread. Not an Emma ward thread. Let’s move along

Some of the best comments and discourse have nothing to do with the topic...or organically morph to another. Do you really have an issue with this?

Dead nuts #3....and so diplomatically stated.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

This is a beef with the polls thread. Not an Emma ward thread. Let’s move along

Happy 1 month anniversary Fischer. Yeah--sometimes digressions occur within a topic. Most of the time it's interesting and fun to see where we end up. Ultimately, the goal is to get folks participating and sharing opinions and perspectives. Discussions sometimes happen where they happen. It's better on the whole to just go with the flow. Or a body can post something along the lines of the topic to wrestle the discussion back on point. Most of the time though, it works best to just let the dog have the bone until it's well chewed. This was a good rabbit trail.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]