Beef with the polls

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

A significant ‘pollster’ here has NC #1. Plus another poll/ranking has Carolina at the top spot.

Oh I thought that was just a prediction for USA Lacrosse Magazine’s top 5. Other than the posts in the forum, which poll has Carolina at the top spot for 2022?

The NCAA RPI rankings.

Those are for the end of the 2021 season not 2022 preseason rankings. RPI can’t exist in the preseason because everyone starts at 0-0. All these other polls are able to take into account opinions on transfers, graduations, incoming freshmen, etc., but RPI needs to have a team’s win percentage, their opponents’ win percentage, & their opponents’ opponents’ win percentage in order to be calculated. Preseason RPI rankings would have every team tied for 1st place with an RPI of 0.

I never identified the other ranking as being early 2022.

[wlaxphan20]

A significant ‘pollster’ here has NC #1. Plus another poll/ranking has Carolina at the top spot.

Oh I thought that was just a prediction for USA Lacrosse Magazine’s top 5. Other than the posts in the forum, which poll has Carolina at the top spot for 2022?

The NCAA RPI rankings.

Those are for the end of the 2021 season not 2022 preseason rankings. RPI can’t exist in the preseason because everyone starts at 0-0. All these other polls are able to take into account opinions on transfers, graduations, incoming freshmen, etc., but RPI needs to have a team’s win percentage, their opponents’ win percentage, & their opponents’ opponents’ win percentage in order to be calculated. Preseason RPI rankings would have every team tied for 1st place with an RPI of 0.

I never identified the other ranking as being early 2022.

I asked which other poll had Carolina in the top spot for 2022 and you answered with RPI.

[Lax101]

Most early season polls rely heavily on how teams ended the prior season. There are several interesting things to watch with UNC. As much as everyone talks about their offense their defense has been best in the country for a few years. They lost 3 out of 4 defenders. They also lost Katie Hoeg who was their quarterback and they have a lot of new faces and transfers trying to fit in and establish themselves. It will be very interesting to see how great the early season chemistry is. There are a lot of alphas and only one ball and that ball is no longer in Katie Hoegs stick most of the game. Is that good or bad? Like most years they probably have the best talent but BC probably has better chemistry and the best player in the game.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

They also lost Katie Hoeg who was their quarterback and they have a lot of new faces and transfers trying to fit in and establish themselves. It will be very interesting to see how great the early season chemistry is. There are a lot of alphas and only one ball and that ball is no longer in Katie Hoegs stick most of the game. Is that good or bad?

There were negative repercussions outsurrounding this last year. Hoeg had the ball “taken from her stick” before she graduated. We’ll see how it works this season when #13 is the sole QB.

[Laxfan500]

They also lost Katie Hoeg who was their quarterback and they have a lot of new faces and transfers trying to fit in and establish themselves. It will be very interesting to see how great the early season chemistry is. There are a lot of alphas and only one ball and that ball is no longer in Katie Hoegs stick most of the game. Is that good or bad?

There were negative repercussions outsurrounding this last year. Hoeg had the ball “taken from her stick” before she graduated. We’ll see how it works this season when #13 is the sole QB.

Who took it from her ? #13 has a long way to go before she’s their quarterback. Why are you discounting ortega or Mastroianni or even Aldave as a quarterback?

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

They also lost Katie Hoeg who was their quarterback and they have a lot of new faces and transfers trying to fit in and establish themselves. It will be very interesting to see how great the early season chemistry is. There are a lot of alphas and only one ball and that ball is no longer in Katie Hoegs stick most of the game. Is that good or bad?

There were negative repercussions outsurrounding this last year. Hoeg had the ball “taken from her stick” before she graduated. We’ll see how it works this season when #13 is the sole QB.

Who took it from her ? #13 has a long way to go before she’s their quarterback. Why are you discounting ortega or Mastroianni or even Aldave as a quarterback?

Coaching staff took it from Hoeg to accommodate #13. Do the 3 players you mentioned typically play that position?

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

#13 has a long way to go before she’s their quarterback.

I disagree here. #13 is everything she was touted to be and then some. She’s already capable of being the QB.

[Bart]

They also lost Katie Hoeg who was their quarterback and they have a lot of new faces and transfers trying to fit in and establish themselves. It will be very interesting to see how great the early season chemistry is. There are a lot of alphas and only one ball and that ball is no longer in Katie Hoegs stick most of the game. Is that good or bad?

There were negative repercussions outsurrounding this last year. Hoeg had the ball “taken from her stick” before she graduated. We’ll see how it works this season when #13 is the sole QB.

Who took it from her ? #13 has a long way to go before she’s their quarterback. Why are you discounting ortega or Mastroianni or even Aldave as a quarterback?

Coaching staff took it from Hoeg to accommodate #13. Do the 3 players you mentioned typically play that position?

HUH? In the NCAA Hoeg was 6-10 and Wurzeburger was 7-1. The ball was clearly not taken away from Ms Hoeg.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

HUH? In the NCAA Hoeg was 6-10 and Wurzeburger was 7-1. The ball was clearly not taken away from Ms Hoeg.

As I was told here recently – the numbers don’t always tell the story. If you watch the semifinal game versus BC, you’ll see Wurzburger behind the net looking to set up teammates more often than Hoeg. Trust me, there was a shift at some point in the season as to where players took their positions to “make room” for #13.

[Laxfan500]

HUH? In the NCAA Hoeg was 6-10 and Wurzeburger was 7-1. The ball was clearly not taken away from Ms Hoeg.

As I was told here recently – the numbers don’t always tell the story. If you watch the semifinal game versus BC, you’ll see Wurzburger behind the net looking to set up teammates more often than Hoeg. Trust me, there was a shift at some point in the season as to where players took their positions to “make room” for #13.

That was a crazy game . I think they were looking to try new strategies . Now that Hoeg is gone we will see how well Wurtzburger does in her spot. She doesn’t have the height behind the cage and she will have to bulk up a bit to not get moved off the ball. This year it is Ortega and Mastroiani’s team on offense. Aldave also has great field vision and was the QB of her old team.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

She doesn’t have the height behind the cage

WOW! I’ll say. I never realized Hoeg was 5’11”
Wurzburger is 5’4”

[tothedraw]

Was BC face guarding Hoeg, that may explain why someone else had to look to feed. Agreed, Wurzburger needs to get bigger, stronger and faster if she's gonna play back there. Hoeg had an amazing touch, going to be very hard to just replace.

[Kleizaster]

Hoeg's vision cannot be replaced. so obviously UNC will have to compensate for that in other ways. Wurzburger does not have the vision of Katie Hoeg. Then again, how many players do? However, Wurzburger is much quicker and shiftier than Hoeg. she can utilize that to her advantage and be effective in ways Hoeg could not. I saw glimpses of that last year, and more so as the season went on. CW will get stronger, but i don't think it needs to be some drastic transformation as others are making it out to be, because she was still plenty effective and productive as a freshman last year in an already stacked UNC team. she was just as effective as B Smith and E Ward despite not being the go to person.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Hoeg's vision cannot be replaced. so obviously UNC will have to compensate for that in other ways. Wurzburger does not have the vision of Katie Hoeg. Then again, how many players do? However, Wurzburger is much quicker and shiftier than Hoeg. she can utilize that to her advantage and be effective in ways Hoeg could not. I saw glimpses of that last year, and more so as the season went on. CW will get stronger, but i don't think it needs to be some drastic transformation as others are making it out to be, because she was still plenty effective and productive as a freshman last year in an already stacked UNC team. she was just as effective as B Smith and E Ward despite not being the go to person.

Agree with everything here. Excellent observations.

Except for including Ward with Smith and Wurzburger. She’s got a limited skill set.

[seacoaster]

Ward is a different player than either Wurzburger or Smith, both of whom are terrific players who had great years. But she certainly deserves mention, based on her play last year, alongside the others.

[wlaxphan20]

Hoeg's vision cannot be replaced. so obviously UNC will have to compensate for that in other ways. Wurzburger does not have the vision of Katie Hoeg. Then again, how many players do? However, Wurzburger is much quicker and shiftier than Hoeg. she can utilize that to her advantage and be effective in ways Hoeg could not. I saw glimpses of that last year, and more so as the season went on. CW will get stronger, but i don't think it needs to be some drastic transformation as others are making it out to be, because she was still plenty effective and productive as a freshman last year in an already stacked UNC team. she was just as effective as B Smith and E Ward despite not being the go to person.

I agree as well. Looking for a player to become the new Hoeg would not be a good use of time. Levy will probably look to maximize the talent of the kids she has rather than trying to see if they can replicate what Hoeg did. I've been impressed with the lefty Sconone's vision as well. Having multiple kids that can distribute would make them more of a threat any way as having one or two main feeders is easier for other teams to cover (and the fact that they couldn't do it to Hoeg often is a part of what made her so special).

Also I remember someone earlier said they lost 3 out of 4 defenders but they return both Nalls and Trenchard in front of Moreno.

[wlaxphan20]

Ward is a different player than either Wurzburger or Smith, both of whom are terrific players who had great years. But she certainly deserves mention, based on her play last year, alongside the others.

Agreed. Different doesn't mean inferior or limited. Also, new skills can (and should) be developed and old ones refined.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Ward is a different player than either Wurzburger or Smith, both of whom are terrific players who had great years. But she certainly deserves mention, based on her play last year, alongside the others.

On closer inspection, Ward put up better numbers than I remembered. I know she scored at a decent clip but I didn't realize she had 30 assists to go with her 43 goals. Great percentage at FP (8 of 11). Still limited in other areas though. It didn't take much to get her to cough up the ball. Not going to give you much on redefend. We'll see how her sophomore year goes. It will be interesting to see how Treanor employs Ward in her offense.

[DMac]

If it didn't take much to get her to cough the ball up she wouldn't have the numbers she does.
You've focused on a couple of her TOs forever, replayed them, slo-moed 'em, and told us about
her underperforming. The girl is good, as in real good, she just doesn't fit the mold or look like the
other players. How many more assists would she have had if assists were given on FP goals to the
player who set up that FPS with a sweet assist but the shot couldn't be taken because of shooting space?

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

What I wrote months ago was certainly relevant, and the numbers back me up. But focusing on today, I find myself a little more educated as to Emma Ward’s production after reading what seacoaster wrote and going back to the statsheet to find the numbers as proof. Ward easily belongs in the group Kleizaster included her in.