All things CoronaVirus

[Farfromgeneva]

Monoclonal antibodies to be rationed, distributed more "fairly". Could be a problem for some states currently on fire with COVID.

Send them to caves. It worked in Ben-Hur.

Are you saying they represent the platonic ideal?

Off topic. I ran into a lady yesterday with kids in a local school system. She said her kids were 100% in person last year as was another school system. I was surprised. Our district started late and ended early but got through it pretty much with kids going to school. I was surprised that systems one and three towns over were uninterrupted. Definitely not the norm for the state last year.

I’m jealous. Fairfield county can afford personal nurses for each kid can’t they?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Monoclonal antibodies to be rationed, distributed more "fairly". Could be a problem for some states currently on fire with COVID.

Send them to caves. It worked in Ben-Hur.

Are you saying they represent the platonic ideal?

Off topic. I ran into a lady yesterday with kids in a local school system. She said her kids were 100% in person last year as was another school system. I was surprised. Our district started late and ended early but got through it pretty much with kids going to school. I was surprised that systems one and three towns over were uninterrupted. Definitely not the norm for the state last year.

I’m jealous. Fairfield county can afford personal nurses for each kid can’t they?

I was surprised. We had it relatively well. Didn’t realize those towns had it even better….speaking of personal, a friend from Scarsdale had a neighbor with three kids and each had a nanny. They would all travel on vacation.

[Farfromgeneva]

Monoclonal antibodies to be rationed, distributed more "fairly". Could be a problem for some states currently on fire with COVID.

Send them to caves. It worked in Ben-Hur.

Are you saying they represent the platonic ideal?

Off topic. I ran into a lady yesterday with kids in a local school system. She said her kids were 100% in person last year as was another school system. I was surprised. Our district started late and ended early but got through it pretty much with kids going to school. I was surprised that systems one and three towns over were uninterrupted. Definitely not the norm for the state last year.

I’m jealous. Fairfield county can afford personal nurses for each kid can’t they?

I was surprised. We had it relatively well. Didn’t realize those towns had it even better….speaking of personal, a friend from Scarsdale had a neighbor with three kids and each had a nanny. They would all travel on vacation.

Sounds like my boss at CS who would dump his kids and wife in the jersey shore every summer and go stay there on the weekends. When he felt like it.

[JoeMauer89]

Monoclonal antibodies to be rationed, distributed more "fairly". Could be a problem for some states currently on fire with COVID.

Seems like an odd article.....just this week Jen Peppermint Patty said they were not enough sending vaccines to the hottest areas, they were doing it equitably across all states. I suppose the same applies here.....turning the screws on mouthbreathers I suppose?

Or rewarding those who behave responsibly towards their fellow citizens? Incentivizing behavior

... I suspect this is part of it. Looks to me like society is going to start reigning in clear stupidity. The world, not just the US has a plan for the best way to put COVID behind us and those not with the program are going to start being marginalized.

Is that a fact? I'm not disagreeing but just asking. Sounds an awful like what YOU would like to happen, not necessarily how/what is going to play out. Mind you, I'm fully vaccinated myself. So save me the trumpnista bullcrap.

Joe

[MDlaxfan76]

Monoclonal antibodies to be rationed, distributed more "fairly". Could be a problem for some states currently on fire with COVID.

Seems like an odd article.....just this week Jen Peppermint Patty said they were not enough sending vaccines to the hottest areas, they were doing it equitably across all states. I suppose the same applies here.....turning the screws on mouthbreathers I suppose?

Or rewarding those who behave responsibly towards their fellow citizens? Incentivizing behavior

... I suspect this is part of it. Looks to me like society is going to start reigning in clear stupidity. The world, not just the US has a plan for the best way to put COVID behind us and those not with the program are going to start being marginalized.

Is that a fact? I'm not disagreeing but just asking. Sounds an awful like what YOU would like to happen, not necessarily how/what is going to play out. Mind you, I'm fully vaccinated myself. So save me the trumpnista bullcrap.

Joe

Glad to hear you're vaccinated, Joe.
Not sure why you'd use the word "trumpnista" as if accused of being such...did someone do so with you?

I think the comment above was referring more to a de facto "plan" than that such exists consciously between countries etc. At this point. If I had to paraphrase, it would be the "world" is beginning to accept that there will be those who get access to the vaccine, refuse, and many among them will die. Others, who would have loved to have had access to one of the best vaccines, won't have access in time, and many will die...but over time, those who want to participate will, and the others will eventually get infected...some will be fine, some will get very sick, and some will die.

There also appears to be acceptance, internationally, of vaccine passports/requirements etc for access to travel, entertainment, etc...basically, don't participate in protecting your neighbor, you get less societal benefits.

Again, de facto "plan".

[JoeMauer89]

Monoclonal antibodies to be rationed, distributed more "fairly". Could be a problem for some states currently on fire with COVID.

Seems like an odd article.....just this week Jen Peppermint Patty said they were not enough sending vaccines to the hottest areas, they were doing it equitably across all states. I suppose the same applies here.....turning the screws on mouthbreathers I suppose?

Or rewarding those who behave responsibly towards their fellow citizens? Incentivizing behavior

... I suspect this is part of it. Looks to me like society is going to start reigning in clear stupidity. The world, not just the US has a plan for the best way to put COVID behind us and those not with the program are going to start being marginalized.

Is that a fact? I'm not disagreeing but just asking. Sounds an awful like what YOU would like to happen, not necessarily how/what is going to play out. Mind you, I'm fully vaccinated myself. So save me the trumpnista bullcrap.

Joe

Glad to hear you're vaccinated, Joe.
Not sure why you'd use the word "trumpnista" as if accused of being such...did someone do so with you?

I think the comment above was referring more to a de facto "plan" than that such exists consciously between countries etc. At this point. If I had to paraphrase, it would be the "world" is beginning to accept that there will be those who get access to the vaccine, refuse, and many among them will die. Others, who would have loved to have had access to one of the best vaccines, won't have access in time, and many will die...but over time, those who want to participate will, and the others will eventually get infected...some will be fine, some will get very sick, and some will die.

There also appears to be acceptance, internationally, of vaccine passports/requirements etc for access to travel, entertainment, etc...basically, don't participate in protecting your neighbor, you get less societal benefits.

Again, de facto "plan".

I know you have missed me MD! I've been called that by a select group on this site. I've taken to understand, it just means, "somebody who doesn't fall in line with my narrow political views" Sure, many places are attempting to achieve this, some areas more successful than others. Whether it lasts is another story entirely. The unvaccinated assume the risks that they are taking upon themselves. There's been numerous recent studies that show (Ashish K Jha just pushed this today) that Vaccinated to Vaccinated spread has been almost 100% when that vaccinated person WAS symptomatic. People live with their own levels of risk they want to take. You can waste your time until you're blue in the face, your not going to get through to some of these people. Sooner you realize that, the less chasing your own tail. There are those that shame the unvaccinated on a daily basis, you know what,... Some of those very people are honestly making things worse. Educate, if you feel you must, but be prepared for significant pushback.

Joe

[MDlaxfan76]

Monoclonal antibodies to be rationed, distributed more "fairly". Could be a problem for some states currently on fire with COVID.

Seems like an odd article.....just this week Jen Peppermint Patty said they were not enough sending vaccines to the hottest areas, they were doing it equitably across all states. I suppose the same applies here.....turning the screws on mouthbreathers I suppose?

Or rewarding those who behave responsibly towards their fellow citizens? Incentivizing behavior

... I suspect this is part of it. Looks to me like society is going to start reigning in clear stupidity. The world, not just the US has a plan for the best way to put COVID behind us and those not with the program are going to start being marginalized.

Is that a fact? I'm not disagreeing but just asking. Sounds an awful like what YOU would like to happen, not necessarily how/what is going to play out. Mind you, I'm fully vaccinated myself. So save me the trumpnista bullcrap.

Joe

Glad to hear you're vaccinated, Joe.
Not sure why you'd use the word "trumpnista" as if accused of being such...did someone do so with you?

I think the comment above was referring more to a de facto "plan" than that such exists consciously between countries etc. At this point. If I had to paraphrase, it would be the "world" is beginning to accept that there will be those who get access to the vaccine, refuse, and many among them will die. Others, who would have loved to have had access to one of the best vaccines, won't have access in time, and many will die...but over time, those who want to participate will, and the others will eventually get infected...some will be fine, some will get very sick, and some will die.

There also appears to be acceptance, internationally, of vaccine passports/requirements etc for access to travel, entertainment, etc...basically, don't participate in protecting your neighbor, you get less societal benefits.

Again, de facto "plan".

I know you have missed me MD! I've been called that by a select group on this site. I've taken to understand, it just means, "somebody who doesn't fall in line with my narrow political views" Sure, many places are attempting to achieve this, some areas more successful than others. Whether it lasts is another story entirely. The unvaccinated assume the risks that they are taking upon themselves. There's been numerous recent studies that show (Ashish K Jha just pushed this today) that Vaccinated to Vaccinated spread has been almost 100% when that vaccinated person WAS symptomatic. People live with their own levels of risk they want to take. You can waste your time until you're blue in the face, your not going to get through to some of these people. Sooner you realize that, the less chasing your own tail. There are those that shame the unvaccinated on a daily basis, you know what,... Some of those very people are honestly making things worse. Educate, if you feel you must, but be prepared for significant pushback.

Joe

Well, there's certainly legitimate debate as to whether "shaming" works effectively or can actually be counterproductive (more the latter I think). We don't live in a command authoritarian regime, so we don't (yet) have the option to do what some such countries have done, so we do need to deal with psychology...lots to critique so far in that regard, no matter what one's political perspective may be.

However, I think you may be missing the fundamental issue that makes the vax no vax choice more than about oneself. While (as you stated) breakthrough infections of vaccinated people can result in symptoms, and if so, can result in further transmission, the probabilities of 1) getting infected go down having been vaccinated, 2) the viral load reaction to an infection is likely to be less (lower symptoms), and thus 3) vaccinated are less likely to pass an infection along.

So, unfortunately, the unvaccinated do pose a greater risk of further transmission to others, including to those unable to be vaccinated for medical reasons, the highly immune compromised, or those, unbeknownst to themselves have lower immunity, waning immunity, etc.

So, it really does matter, and we haven't even gotten to the cost of healthcare for those who chose not to protect themselves (and others) and then needed heavy cost care, in order to save their lives...or in a failed such attempt. Very high financial cost not actually borne by the patient or patient's family...you and I share in these costs.

So, it's not just about the individual.

And then there's the health care workers...

Back to "shaming".
For some, peer pressure is indeed highly important.
It's certainly better for that peer pressure to be from a position of positive encouragement.

But we shouldn't kid ourselves that such will be sufficient to persuade some. And that's where other "incentives" come in, whether financial cost sharing or access to various privileges, travel, entertainment, etc. Want to go live in the forest, don't go to a hospital, don't ask for anything from anyone, fine, here in the US that's one's prerogative...but want to live among others and there may well be costs to bear for choosing not to participate. I think the sooner we implement these measures universally, the better off we'll be over the long haul.

As to the "trumpnista" epithet, sometimes its deserved, sometimes not...as someone else might say, 'not all mouth breather, conspiracy mongers are/were Trump supporters, but most were".

But that's not really the issue, it's that Trumpism has had, at its core, an anti-science, anti-government, anti-expertise resentment that continues to drive many GOP politicians and the base they pander to, and some of that has spilled into anti-mask, anti-vax, "hoax" type rhetoric that has been very damaging to the sorts of positive pressure that would be much better than "shaming".

[old salt]

Monoclonal antibodies to be rationed, distributed more "fairly". Could be a problem for some states currently on fire with COVID.

Monoclonal antibody treatment has been available since at least Dec20, when Trump received it.

By now, there's no valid reason for shortages or lack of availability other than to limit & downplay treatment so people do not view it as an alternative to vaccination.

Withholding it from patients who need it, based on "equity" or state vaccination levels, is counter to medical ethics. It's political triage.

Had it been developed at warp speed, like vaccines, there'd be enough to treat everyone who tests positive, without requiring a Rx.

An injectable form is in testing.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Monoclonal antibodies to be rationed, distributed more "fairly". Could be a problem for some states currently on fire with COVID.

Monoclonal antibody treatment has been available since at least Dec20, when Trump received it.

By now, there's no valid reason for shortages or lack of availability other than to limit & downplay treatment so people do not view it as an alternative to vaccination.

Withholding it from patients who need it, based on "equity" or state vaccination levels, is counter to medical ethics. It's political triage.

Had it been developed at warp speed, like vaccines, there'd be enough to treat everyone who tests positive, without requiring a Rx.

An injectable form is in testing.

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services said the change was needed after just seven states— Alabama, Mississippi, Florida, Texas, Tennessee, Georgia and Louisiana— accounted for 70% of monoclonal antibody orders in the country. “Given this reality, we must work to ensure our supply of these life-saving therapies remains available for all states and territories, not just some,” the department said in a statement.

…..Takers.

[old salt]

Monoclonal antibodies to be rationed, distributed more "fairly". Could be a problem for some states currently on fire with COVID.

Monoclonal antibody treatment has been available since at least Dec20, when Trump received it.

By now, there's no valid reason for shortages or lack of availability other than to limit & downplay treatment so people do not view it as an alternative to vaccination.

Withholding it from patients who need it, based on "equity" or state vaccination levels, is counter to medical ethics. It's political triage.

Had it been developed at warp speed, like vaccines, there'd be enough to treat everyone who tests positive, without requiring a Rx.

An injectable form is in testing.

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services said the change was needed after just seven states— Alabama, Mississippi, Florida, Texas, Tennessee, Georgia and Louisiana— accounted for 70% of monoclonal antibody orders in the country. “Given this reality, we must work to ensure our supply of these life-saving therapies remains available for all states and territories, not just some,” the department said in a statement.

…..Takers.

Because that's where the delta surge is hot right now.

So deny it to anyone who's not vaccinated ? What about the unvaccinated (D) patients or the "underseved" ethnic groups in those Red states, or make an "equity" exception & give it to the "underserved" who chose not to get vaccinated.

Is there a warp speed effort to increase production ?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Monoclonal antibodies to be rationed, distributed more "fairly". Could be a problem for some states currently on fire with COVID.

Monoclonal antibody treatment has been available since at least Dec20, when Trump received it.

By now, there's no valid reason for shortages or lack of availability other than to limit & downplay treatment so people do not view it as an alternative to vaccination.

Withholding it from patients who need it, based on "equity" or state vaccination levels, is counter to medical ethics. It's political triage.

Had it been developed at warp speed, like vaccines, there'd be enough to treat everyone who tests positive, without requiring a Rx.

An injectable form is in testing.

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services said the change was needed after just seven states— Alabama, Mississippi, Florida, Texas, Tennessee, Georgia and Louisiana— accounted for 70% of monoclonal antibody orders in the country. “Given this reality, we must work to ensure our supply of these life-saving therapies remains available for all states and territories, not just some,” the department said in a statement.

…..Takers.

Because that's where the delta surge is hot right now.

So deny it to anyone who's not vaccinated ? What about the unvaccinated (D) patients or the "underseved" ethnic groups in those Red states, or make an "equity" exception & give it to the "underserved" who chose not to get vaccinated.

Is there a warp speed effort to increase production ?

If they don’t have a legitimate medical reason to not get vaccinated, F’ em….I don’t care where they live.

[old salt]

Monoclonal antibodies to be rationed, distributed more "fairly". Could be a problem for some states currently on fire with COVID.

Monoclonal antibody treatment has been available since at least Dec20, when Trump received it.

By now, there's no valid reason for shortages or lack of availability other than to limit & downplay treatment so people do not view it as an alternative to vaccination.

Withholding it from patients who need it, based on "equity" or state vaccination levels, is counter to medical ethics. It's political triage.

Had it been developed at warp speed, like vaccines, there'd be enough to treat everyone who tests positive, without requiring a Rx.

An injectable form is in testing.

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services said the change was needed after just seven states— Alabama, Mississippi, Florida, Texas, Tennessee, Georgia and Louisiana— accounted for 70% of monoclonal antibody orders in the country. “Given this reality, we must work to ensure our supply of these life-saving therapies remains available for all states and territories, not just some,” the department said in a statement.

…..Takers.

Because that's where the delta surge is hot right now.

So deny it to anyone who's not vaccinated ? What about the unvaccinated (D) patients or the "underseved" ethnic groups in those Red states, or make an "equity" exception & give it to the "underserved" who chose not to get vaccinated.

Is there a warp speed effort to increase production ?

If they don’t have a legitimate medical reason to not get vaccinated, F’ em….I don’t care where they live.

So are you advocating witholding the MCA treatment to everyone who is not vaccinated ?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Monoclonal antibodies to be rationed, distributed more "fairly". Could be a problem for some states currently on fire with COVID.

Monoclonal antibody treatment has been available since at least Dec20, when Trump received it.

By now, there's no valid reason for shortages or lack of availability other than to limit & downplay treatment so people do not view it as an alternative to vaccination.

Withholding it from patients who need it, based on "equity" or state vaccination levels, is counter to medical ethics. It's political triage.

Had it been developed at warp speed, like vaccines, there'd be enough to treat everyone who tests positive, without requiring a Rx.

An injectable form is in testing.

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services said the change was needed after just seven states— Alabama, Mississippi, Florida, Texas, Tennessee, Georgia and Louisiana— accounted for 70% of monoclonal antibody orders in the country. “Given this reality, we must work to ensure our supply of these life-saving therapies remains available for all states and territories, not just some,” the department said in a statement.

…..Takers.

Because that's where the delta surge is hot right now.

So deny it to anyone who's not vaccinated ? What about the unvaccinated (D) patients or the "underseved" ethnic groups in those Red states, or make an "equity" exception & give it to the "underserved" who chose not to get vaccinated.

Is there a warp speed effort to increase production ?

If they don’t have a legitimate medical reason to not get vaccinated, F’ em….I don’t care where they live.

So are you advocating witholding the MCA treatment to everyone who is not vaccinated ?

Just those that passed on being vaccinated. Personal responsibility.

[old salt]

Monoclonal antibodies to be rationed, distributed more "fairly". Could be a problem for some states currently on fire with COVID.

Monoclonal antibody treatment has been available since at least Dec20, when Trump received it.

By now, there's no valid reason for shortages or lack of availability other than to limit & downplay treatment so people do not view it as an alternative to vaccination.

Withholding it from patients who need it, based on "equity" or state vaccination levels, is counter to medical ethics. It's political triage.

Had it been developed at warp speed, like vaccines, there'd be enough to treat everyone who tests positive, without requiring a Rx.

An injectable form is in testing.

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services said the change was needed after just seven states— Alabama, Mississippi, Florida, Texas, Tennessee, Georgia and Louisiana— accounted for 70% of monoclonal antibody orders in the country. “Given this reality, we must work to ensure our supply of these life-saving therapies remains available for all states and territories, not just some,” the department said in a statement.

…..Takers.

Because that's where the delta surge is hot right now.

So deny it to anyone who's not vaccinated ? What about the unvaccinated (D) patients or the "underseved" ethnic groups in those Red states, or make an "equity" exception & give it to the "underserved" who chose not to get vaccinated.

Is there a warp speed effort to increase production ?

If they don’t have a legitimate medical reason to not get vaccinated, F’ em….I don’t care where they live.

So are you advocating witholding the MCA treatment to everyone who is not vaccinated ?

Just those that passed on being vaccinated. Personal responsibility.

By this time, that would be everyone except those advised by their Dr not to get vaccinated.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Monoclonal antibodies to be rationed, distributed more "fairly". Could be a problem for some states currently on fire with COVID.

Monoclonal antibody treatment has been available since at least Dec20, when Trump received it.

By now, there's no valid reason for shortages or lack of availability other than to limit & downplay treatment so people do not view it as an alternative to vaccination.

Withholding it from patients who need it, based on "equity" or state vaccination levels, is counter to medical ethics. It's political triage.

Had it been developed at warp speed, like vaccines, there'd be enough to treat everyone who tests positive, without requiring a Rx.

An injectable form is in testing.

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services said the change was needed after just seven states— Alabama, Mississippi, Florida, Texas, Tennessee, Georgia and Louisiana— accounted for 70% of monoclonal antibody orders in the country. “Given this reality, we must work to ensure our supply of these life-saving therapies remains available for all states and territories, not just some,” the department said in a statement.

…..Takers.

Because that's where the delta surge is hot right now.

So deny it to anyone who's not vaccinated ? What about the unvaccinated (D) patients or the "underseved" ethnic groups in those Red states, or make an "equity" exception & give it to the "underserved" who chose not to get vaccinated.

Is there a warp speed effort to increase production ?

If they don’t have a legitimate medical reason to not get vaccinated, F’ em….I don’t care where they live.

So are you advocating witholding the MCA treatment to everyone who is not vaccinated ?

Just those that passed on being vaccinated. Personal responsibility.

By this time, that would be everyone except those advised by their Dr not to get vaccinated.

Yep. Make them fend for themselves.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Here are 5 countries that are opening up and living with Covid…and the Southern USA

[Farfromgeneva]

Monoclonal antibodies to be rationed, distributed more "fairly". Could be a problem for some states currently on fire with COVID.

Seems like an odd article.....just this week Jen Peppermint Patty said they were not enough sending vaccines to the hottest areas, they were doing it equitably across all states. I suppose the same applies here.....turning the screws on mouthbreathers I suppose?

Or rewarding those who behave responsibly towards their fellow citizens? Incentivizing behavior

... I suspect this is part of it. Looks to me like society is going to start reigning in clear stupidity. The world, not just the US has a plan for the best way to put COVID behind us and those not with the program are going to start being marginalized.

Is that a fact? I'm not disagreeing but just asking. Sounds an awful like what YOU would like to happen, not necessarily how/what is going to play out. Mind you, I'm fully vaccinated myself. So save me the trumpnista bullcrap.

Joe

Glad to hear you're vaccinated, Joe.
Not sure why you'd use the word "trumpnista" as if accused of being such...did someone do so with you?

I think the comment above was referring more to a de facto "plan" than that such exists consciously between countries etc. At this point. If I had to paraphrase, it would be the "world" is beginning to accept that there will be those who get access to the vaccine, refuse, and many among them will die. Others, who would have loved to have had access to one of the best vaccines, won't have access in time, and many will die...but over time, those who want to participate will, and the others will eventually get infected...some will be fine, some will get very sick, and some will die.

There also appears to be acceptance, internationally, of vaccine passports/requirements etc for access to travel, entertainment, etc...basically, don't participate in protecting your neighbor, you get less societal benefits.

Again, de facto "plan".

I know you have missed me MD! I've been called that by a select group on this site. I've taken to understand, it just means, "somebody who doesn't fall in line with my narrow political views" Sure, many places are attempting to achieve this, some areas more successful than others. Whether it lasts is another story entirely. The unvaccinated assume the risks that they are taking upon themselves. There's been numerous recent studies that show (Ashish K Jha just pushed this today) that Vaccinated to Vaccinated spread has been almost 100% when that vaccinated person WAS symptomatic. People live with their own levels of risk they want to take. You can waste your time until you're blue in the face, your not going to get through to some of these people. Sooner you realize that, the less chasing your own tail. There are those that shame the unvaccinated on a daily basis, you know what,... Some of those very people are honestly making things worse. Educate, if you feel you must, but be prepared for significant pushback.

Joe

Well, there's certainly legitimate debate as to whether "shaming" works effectively or can actually be counterproductive (more the latter I think). We don't live in a command authoritarian regime, so we don't (yet) have the option to do what some such countries have done, so we do need to deal with psychology...lots to critique so far in that regard, no matter what one's political perspective may be.

However, I think you may be missing the fundamental issue that makes the vax no vax choice more than about oneself. While (as you stated) breakthrough infections of vaccinated people can result in symptoms, and if so, can result in further transmission, the probabilities of 1) getting infected go down having been vaccinated, 2) the viral load reaction to an infection is likely to be less (lower symptoms), and thus 3) vaccinated are less likely to pass an infection along.

So, unfortunately, the unvaccinated do pose a greater risk of further transmission to others, including to those unable to be vaccinated for medical reasons, the highly immune compromised, or those, unbeknownst to themselves have lower immunity, waning immunity, etc.

So, it really does matter, and we haven't even gotten to the cost of healthcare for those who chose not to protect themselves (and others) and then needed heavy cost care, in order to save their lives...or in a failed such attempt. Very high financial cost not actually borne by the patient or patient's family...you and I share in these costs.

So, it's not just about the individual.

And then there's the health care workers...

Back to "shaming".
For some, peer pressure is indeed highly important.
It's certainly better for that peer pressure to be from a position of positive encouragement.

But we shouldn't kid ourselves that such will be sufficient to persuade some. And that's where other "incentives" come in, whether financial cost sharing or access to various privileges, travel, entertainment, etc. Want to go live in the forest, don't go to a hospital, don't ask for anything from anyone, fine, here in the US that's one's prerogative...but want to live among others and there may well be costs to bear for choosing not to participate. I think the sooner we implement these measures universally, the better off we'll be over the long haul.

As to the "trumpnista" epithet, sometimes its deserved, sometimes not...as someone else might say, 'not all mouth breather, conspiracy mongers are/were Trump supporters, but most were".

But that's not really the issue, it's that Trumpism has had, at its core, an anti-science, anti-government, anti-expertise resentment that continues to drive many GOP politicians and the base they pander to, and some of that has spilled into anti-mask, anti-vax, "hoax" type rhetoric that has been very damaging to the sorts of positive pressure that would be much better than "shaming".

I hate the shaming, the clerics winning over the warriors. That’s why the Catholic Church has so many billions of dirt to pay out for the dirt they did and then covered up.

Trump and his followers are modern know nothings except not aware, introspective or dedicated to the effort required to even know what that is a reference too.

[Farfromgeneva]

Here are 5 countries that are opening up and living with Covid…and the Southern USA

Miss that city, if you haven’t been it’s funny I tried to learn the language but all I learned was Skol! (And that’s surely spelled wrong but phonetically sounds like the tin of chewable tobacco and is cheers before drinking). However nostalgia for the pic reminded me that Nyhavn is pronounced like New Haven, only nicer than the one in CT unless you really love Phillips seafood, Waterfront office buildings that look like Soviet 1960s architecture and empty city center squares.

[ggait]

Can someone explain to me why folks trust govt, fda, cdc, science, tech, doctors when it comes to monoclonal?

But not for vaccine?

It is all such Bravo Sierra.

Especially because they were all so very pro Trump vax before the election. But then the effing Deep State held up the approval of the life saving miracle so Trump would lose.

[a fan]

Can someone explain to me why folks trust govt, fda, cdc, science, tech, doctors when it comes to monoclonal?

But not for vaccine?

Yep. It's what I called a "logic trap" earlier.

You can't square the two. And you also can't square why they supposedly don't believe what their doctors tell them----yet when they get really sick, they run to these same doctors for help. That's the tell: if they REALLY didn't believe doctors, they'd simply stay home and die....and not go running to doctors and ER's around the country, begging them for help.


So you're left with: these people are freaking idiots, trying to show the world that they're free thinkers. And if they only killed themselves and no one else, I'd feel sorry for them. Instead? I'm livid at their entirely phony, hypocritical behavior....that's killing others, and keeping the virus around.

They're not done, btw. They'll find a new, even lower level of stupid in the next few months.