Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

[Typical Lax Dad]

Seems to me we're a bit off topic?

If we're giving financial advice, I think someone, prob Geneva, did make the point that home mortgage interest remains one of the most affordable ways to have debt, with the double bang of being deductible (up to a point), so if someone has ANY debt, this would probably be the best type to have. Pay off all the credit cards etc first.

Which isn't to say that if I sold my business for enough bucks, I wouldn't take great pleasure in extinguishing ALL my debts, including mortgage...but a financial advisor might well then tell me to take out a mortgage up to the break point for deduction and let that roll along, take the cash and invest in something with a solid shot at further appreciation.

Love to have that problem. First world as they say!

The issue, is that itemizing is harder these days, as I understand it. With the Standard Deduction now being $25,100 filing jointly, your home mortgage really does not help you, as it did in years past.

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/mortgage ... investing/

FYI

[Farfromgeneva]

Seems to me we're a bit off topic?

If we're giving financial advice, I think someone, prob Geneva, did make the point that home mortgage interest remains one of the most affordable ways to have debt, with the double bang of being deductible (up to a point), so if someone has ANY debt, this would probably be the best type to have. Pay off all the credit cards etc first.

Which isn't to say that if I sold my business for enough bucks, I wouldn't take great pleasure in extinguishing ALL my debts, including mortgage...but a financial advisor might well then tell me to take out a mortgage up to the break point for deduction and let that roll along, take the cash and invest in something with a solid shot at further appreciation.

Love to have that problem. First world as they say!

My point was Susie Orman, er OS, is giving advice that is generic from a Chinese fortune cookie when these are very individual decisions. Based on his response perhaps I should’ve avoided using words like Idiosyncratic and explained it like Mongo.

Interest rates have not always been this artificially low.

Boy your bringing the heat today.

Orman Susie.

Gotta Five Footer?

[Farfromgeneva]

Seems to me we're a bit off topic?

If we're giving financial advice, I think someone, prob Geneva, did make the point that home mortgage interest remains one of the most affordable ways to have debt, with the double bang of being deductible (up to a point), so if someone has ANY debt, this would probably be the best type to have. Pay off all the credit cards etc first.

Which isn't to say that if I sold my business for enough bucks, I wouldn't take great pleasure in extinguishing ALL my debts, including mortgage...but a financial advisor might well then tell me to take out a mortgage up to the break point for deduction and let that roll along, take the cash and invest in something with a solid shot at further appreciation.

Love to have that problem. First world as they say!

My point was Susie Orman, er OS, is giving advice that is generic from a Chinese fortune cookie when these are very individual decisions. Based on his response perhaps I should’ve avoided using words like Idiosyncratic and explained it like Mongo.

Interest rates have not always been this artificially low.

Boy your bringing the heat today.

Orman Susie.

Guess I have to read between the lines.

[old salt]

Seems to me we're a bit off topic?

If we're giving financial advice, I think someone, prob Geneva, did make the point that home mortgage interest remains one of the most affordable ways to have debt, with the double bang of being deductible (up to a point), so if someone has ANY debt, this would probably be the best type to have. Pay off all the credit cards etc first.

Which isn't to say that if I sold my business for enough bucks, I wouldn't take great pleasure in extinguishing ALL my debts, including mortgage...but a financial advisor might well then tell me to take out a mortgage up to the break point for deduction and let that roll along, take the cash and invest in something with a solid shot at further appreciation.

Love to have that problem. First world as they say!

My point was Susie Orman, er OS, is giving advice that is generic from a Chinese fortune cookie when these are very individual decisions. Based on his response perhaps I should’ve avoided using words like Idiosyncratic and explained it like Mongo.

Interest rates have not always been this artificially low.

Boy your bringing the heat today.

Orman Susie.

The key to our financial security has been not paying interest. Since my wife & I married, we've never paid a car loan or credit card interest. We've owned 4 homes, mortgaged the first 3 & paid off the mortgage on each in under 3 years. After the payoffs, we had plenty of excess income for other diverse investments, some with greater risk, because we could afford to lose those. We still hold a 5% note on our 3rd & most valuable residence. Along the way, we owned a couple rental properties on which we maintained mortgages for tax advantage. We both maxed out any tax deferred retirement instruments (in index funds) which were available to us. We've maintained a tech heavy, buy & hold NASDAQ portfolio which has performed beyond our wildest expectations. That's all gravy for our legacy trust. With no debts, we retired from full time work in our 50's & can now live comfortably on our pensions & ss. Thank you, but we don't need any advice from Suzie Orman or lax forum masters of the universe. We just followed the advice my Dad gave us as he built a family business which my brother sustains.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Seems to me we're a bit off topic?

If we're giving financial advice, I think someone, prob Geneva, did make the point that home mortgage interest remains one of the most affordable ways to have debt, with the double bang of being deductible (up to a point), so if someone has ANY debt, this would probably be the best type to have. Pay off all the credit cards etc first.

Which isn't to say that if I sold my business for enough bucks, I wouldn't take great pleasure in extinguishing ALL my debts, including mortgage...but a financial advisor might well then tell me to take out a mortgage up to the break point for deduction and let that roll along, take the cash and invest in something with a solid shot at further appreciation.

Love to have that problem. First world as they say!

My point was Susie Orman, er OS, is giving advice that is generic from a Chinese fortune cookie when these are very individual decisions. Based on his response perhaps I should’ve avoided using words like Idiosyncratic and explained it like Mongo.

Interest rates have not always been this artificially low.

Boy your bringing the heat today.

Orman Susie.

The key to our financial security has been not paying interest. Since my wife & I married, we've never paid a car loan or credit card interest. We've owned 4 homes, mortgaged the first 3 & paid off the mortgage on each in under 3 years. After the payoffs, we had plenty of excess income for other diverse investments, some with greater risk, because we could afford to lose those. We still hold a 5% note on our 3rd & most valuable residence. Along the way, we owned a couple rental properties on which we maintained mortgages for tax advantage. We both maxed out any tax deferred retirement instruments (in index funds) which were available to us. We've maintained a tech heavy, buy & hold NASDAQ portfolio which has performed beyond our wildest expectations. That's all gravy for our legacy trust. With no debts, we retired from full time work in our 50's & can now live comfortably on our pensions & ss. Thank you, but we don't need any advice from Suzie Orman or lax forum masters of the universe. We just followed the advice my Dad gave us as he built a family business which my brother sustains.

Just having fun with the Susie Orman & OS comment. You are fine….my advice from my father was “it’s not how much you bring in, its what is leftover”….

[old salt]

Seems to me we're a bit off topic?

If we're giving financial advice, I think someone, prob Geneva, did make the point that home mortgage interest remains one of the most affordable ways to have debt, with the double bang of being deductible (up to a point), so if someone has ANY debt, this would probably be the best type to have. Pay off all the credit cards etc first.

Which isn't to say that if I sold my business for enough bucks, I wouldn't take great pleasure in extinguishing ALL my debts, including mortgage...but a financial advisor might well then tell me to take out a mortgage up to the break point for deduction and let that roll along, take the cash and invest in something with a solid shot at further appreciation.

Love to have that problem. First world as they say!

The issue, is that itemizing is harder these days, as I understand it. With the Standard Deduction now being $25,100 filing jointly, your home mortgage really does not help you, as it did in years past.

Does that not depend on the size of the mortgage and your other deductions, taking one above the standard?
Apparently about 34 million households (20% of returns) used to take the deduction, now about 14 million do (8% of returns).
https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/chip ... deduction/

The good news is that if you're under that amount, it's a heck of a lot easier now.

Those 12% in SALT states?

YA -- you've locked on to the critical number. With a $10k SALT limit (easily exceeded in MD), unless you have a bunch of charitable or other deductions, you get no tax advantage from the first $15.1k of mortgage interest paid. If you have zero mortgage interest, you still get the full $25.1k standard deduction. With the $10k SALT limit, that's a $15.1k deduction for nuthin'.

[Farfromgeneva]

Seems to me we're a bit off topic?

If we're giving financial advice, I think someone, prob Geneva, did make the point that home mortgage interest remains one of the most affordable ways to have debt, with the double bang of being deductible (up to a point), so if someone has ANY debt, this would probably be the best type to have. Pay off all the credit cards etc first.

Which isn't to say that if I sold my business for enough bucks, I wouldn't take great pleasure in extinguishing ALL my debts, including mortgage...but a financial advisor might well then tell me to take out a mortgage up to the break point for deduction and let that roll along, take the cash and invest in something with a solid shot at further appreciation.

Love to have that problem. First world as they say!

My point was Susie Orman, er OS, is giving advice that is generic from a Chinese fortune cookie when these are very individual decisions. Based on his response perhaps I should’ve avoided using words like Idiosyncratic and explained it like Mongo.

Interest rates have not always been this artificially low.

Boy your bringing the heat today.

Orman Susie.

The key to our financial security has been not paying interest. Since my wife & I married, we've never paid a car loan or credit card interest. We've owned 4 homes, mortgaged the first 3 & paid off the mortgage on each in under 3 years. After the payoffs, we had plenty of excess income for other diverse investments, some with greater risk, because we could afford to lose those. We still hold a 5% note on our 3rd & most valuable residence. Along the way, we owned a couple rental properties on which we maintained mortgages for tax advantage. We both maxed out any tax deferred retirement instruments (in index funds) which were available to us. We've maintained a tech heavy, buy & hold NASDAQ portfolio which has performed beyond our wildest expectations. That's all gravy for our legacy trust. With no debts, we retired from full time work in our 50's & can now live comfortably on our pensions & ss. Thank you, but we don't need any advice from Suzie Orman or lax forum masters of the universe. We just followed the advice my Dad gave us as he built a family business which my brother sustains.

But you stated with certainty to someone who’s situation you don’t know how to act in this regard. That’s arrogance. I didn’t tell anyone what to do if you can actually read critically. I made points of logic, you on the other hand told YA a statement as a universal truth flat out as if you were commander of us all. Why don’t you get that. I’m providing insight into ways to think about it and you’re telling people how it is, which you can’t say is true for others and ignores a ton of situations and variables.

Good for you but read critically and think. Hell no one can play the game you played precisely because of the super captain obvious point you made about rates being low as if anyone who’s been a round a few decades hasn’t seen rates go down on a near linear path. Your comments added zero value but if someone took it as gospel and their situation is different you could’ve f**ked them up for life.

My father in law bought his first house in 1984 for &
$87k and sold for $440k in 1994 so every house goes up 5x in ten years!

Wait, why the f is my house only worth around a stick when I paid $530k in 2012??? It should be worth $5mm. That’s how stuff works right?

[Farfromgeneva]

Seems to me we're a bit off topic?

If we're giving financial advice, I think someone, prob Geneva, did make the point that home mortgage interest remains one of the most affordable ways to have debt, with the double bang of being deductible (up to a point), so if someone has ANY debt, this would probably be the best type to have. Pay off all the credit cards etc first.

Which isn't to say that if I sold my business for enough bucks, I wouldn't take great pleasure in extinguishing ALL my debts, including mortgage...but a financial advisor might well then tell me to take out a mortgage up to the break point for deduction and let that roll along, take the cash and invest in something with a solid shot at further appreciation.

Love to have that problem. First world as they say!

My point was Susie Orman, er OS, is giving advice that is generic from a Chinese fortune cookie when these are very individual decisions. Based on his response perhaps I should’ve avoided using words like Idiosyncratic and explained it like Mongo.

Interest rates have not always been this artificially low.

Boy your bringing the heat today.

Orman Susie.

The key to our financial security has been not paying interest. Since my wife & I married, we've never paid a car loan or credit card interest. We've owned 4 homes, mortgaged the first 3 & paid off the mortgage on each in under 3 years. After the payoffs, we had plenty of excess income for other diverse investments, some with greater risk, because we could afford to lose those. We still hold a 5% note on our 3rd & most valuable residence. Along the way, we owned a couple rental properties on which we maintained mortgages for tax advantage. We both maxed out any tax deferred retirement instruments (in index funds) which were available to us. We've maintained a tech heavy, buy & hold NASDAQ portfolio which has performed beyond our wildest expectations. That's all gravy for our legacy trust. With no debts, we retired from full time work in our 50's & can now live comfortably on our pensions & ss. Thank you, but we don't need any advice from Suzie Orman or lax forum masters of the universe. We just followed the advice my Dad gave us as he built a family business which my brother sustains.

Wait I bought AOL in 1999 and I’m not wealthy! You said buy tech stocks!

See the problem with translating whatever you did in a time, place and circumstance doesn’t always work? I share concepts you tell people what’s up.

[Farfromgeneva]

Seems to me we're a bit off topic?

If we're giving financial advice, I think someone, prob Geneva, did make the point that home mortgage interest remains one of the most affordable ways to have debt, with the double bang of being deductible (up to a point), so if someone has ANY debt, this would probably be the best type to have. Pay off all the credit cards etc first.

Which isn't to say that if I sold my business for enough bucks, I wouldn't take great pleasure in extinguishing ALL my debts, including mortgage...but a financial advisor might well then tell me to take out a mortgage up to the break point for deduction and let that roll along, take the cash and invest in something with a solid shot at further appreciation.

Love to have that problem. First world as they say!

My point was Susie Orman, er OS, is giving advice that is generic from a Chinese fortune cookie when these are very individual decisions. Based on his response perhaps I should’ve avoided using words like Idiosyncratic and explained it like Mongo.

Interest rates have not always been this artificially low.

Every action is taking an implicit or explicit bet. A non finance logician would understand this. If you pay off long term fixed rate (meaning they can’t change the rate on you). That’s a bet rates will go down.

Oh and you’re home value increases-see the relationship between that straight line down in rates across a graph with average home values? How about changed in HUD in the early 90s.

Or is all of your success simply because you paid off debt?

I hate (for RRT to come chase me around this morning) it when people mess with other peoples pocket books and that’s what you are risking here without knowing YAs situation enough to make declarative statements. He might need that cash to get a ball reduction surgery but suddenly a situation changes and he can’t have it because he took his liquidity an paid off his cheap mortgage and now he’s got to walk around the rest of his life with serious courage or borrower at consumer unsecured point of sale double digit rates from the ball doctor to get relief.

[cradleandshoot]

While reading the financial opinions here is interesting... Ain't it time to end the thread hi jack and get back to the thread topic?

[MDlaxfan76]

While reading the financial opinions here is interesting... Ain't it time to end the thread hi jack and get back to the thread topic?

+1

Apparently the thread topic has had waning interest...already.

Re Salty's strategy, sounds to me like his current financial position was driven by his income (or potentially inheritance), not whether he paid interest on assets like a home. In other words, a lot of in coming $. But yes, spending and purchasing within that income. But a lot of income. A lot of wealthy folks run beat up cars into the ground, wear 30 year old rumpled suits etc...don't spend on frivolity.

Which doesn't mean that the best strategy for most has been to avoid mortgage interest...interesting discussion, though, on how these recent tax changes have reduced dramatically the plus side of mortgages for many.

[DMac]

Potential inheritance?
He's older than I am, fer chrissakes.

[MDlaxfan76]

Potential inheritance?
He's older than I am, fer chrissakes.

From what I understand, which ain't much, Salty had at least one, maybe multiple successful businesses post leaving service...but some folks have had inheritances as well (parents died, grandparents died, whatever) and that wealth provided the capital for home purchases, businesses, etc. Most people don't have that situation.

I wasn't throwing shade at him in specific (I've assumed he's "earned" his), my point was that having a lot of cash/capital was the point. Just noting that having lots of "income" or 'in coming cash' can come from one's own sweat and ingenuity and luck...or that of someone else through inheritance.

Salty happened to mention his dad's business, being run by his brother, which reminded me of the second way people become wealthy, inheritance.

[DMac]

Oh, haven't been following (obviously), thought you were saying he might be getting an inheritance in the future which isn't beyond the realm of possibility but not in the very likely category either.
Yes, grocery store (love grocery stores), salty went from bag boy to chopper pilot....gotta love that.

[Farfromgeneva]

While reading the financial opinions here is interesting... Ain't it time to end the thread hi jack and get back to the thread topic?

+1

Apparently the thread topic has had waning interest...already.

Re Salty's strategy, sounds to me like his current financial position was driven by his income (or potentially inheritance), not whether he paid interest on assets like a home. In other words, a lot of in coming $. But yes, spending and purchasing within that income. But a lot of income. A lot of wealthy folks run beat up cars into the ground, wear 30 year old rumpled suits etc...don't spend on frivolity.

Which doesn't mean that the best strategy for most has been to avoid mortgage interest...interesting discussion, though, on how these recent tax changes have reduced dramatically the plus side of mortgages for many.

What is there to talk about. We did what we did and the country goes back to being run by opprossive people that still hate us...and women.

Boom topic over.

[Farfromgeneva]

Potential inheritance?
He's older than I am, fer chrissakes.

From what I understand, which ain't much, Salty had at least one, maybe multiple successful businesses post leaving service...but some folks have had inheritances as well (parents died, grandparents died, whatever) and that wealth provided the capital for home purchases, businesses, etc. Most people don't have that situation.

I wasn't throwing shade at him in specific (I've assumed he's "earned" his), my point was that having a lot of cash/capital was the point. Just noting that having lots of "income" or 'in coming cash' can come from one's own sweat and ingenuity and luck...or that of someone else through inheritance.

Salty happened to mention his dad's business, being run by his brother, which reminded me of the second way people become wealthy, inheritance.

While it might be a tough super low margin business now his parents also owned a grocer at a point in time (early 60s) when A&P was the single largest employer in this country....

[MDlaxfan76]

Oh, haven't been following (obviously), thought you were saying he might be getting an inheritance in the future which isn't beyond the realm of possibility but not in the very likely category either.
Yes, grocery store (love grocery stores), salty went from bag boy to chopper pilot....gotta love that.

[Farfromgeneva]

While reading the financial opinions here is interesting... Ain't it time to end the thread hi jack and get back to the thread topic?

+1

Apparently the thread topic has had waning interest...already.

Re Salty's strategy, sounds to me like his current financial position was driven by his income (or potentially inheritance), not whether he paid interest on assets like a home. In other words, a lot of in coming $. But yes, spending and purchasing within that income. But a lot of income. A lot of wealthy folks run beat up cars into the ground, wear 30 year old rumpled suits etc...don't spend on frivolity.

Which doesn't mean that the best strategy for most has been to avoid mortgage interest...interesting discussion, though, on how these recent tax changes have reduced dramatically the plus side of mortgages for many.

Lot of truly wealthy people are pretty illiquid but utilize access to debt as an asset in and of itself. Deep in this deal around life insurance premium finance. Guys keeps themselves fully invested, borrower for the premiums to build up CSV and then once the CSV exceeds the loan payable between years 4 - 10, typically around year 7, they then borrow against that for consumer and investment purposes.

[Farfromgeneva]

While reading the financial opinions here is interesting... Ain't it time to end the thread hi jack and get back to the thread topic?

+1

Apparently the thread topic has had waning interest...already.

Re Salty's strategy, sounds to me like his current financial position was driven by his income (or potentially inheritance), not whether he paid interest on assets like a home. In other words, a lot of in coming $. But yes, spending and purchasing within that income. But a lot of income. A lot of wealthy folks run beat up cars into the ground, wear 30 year old rumpled suits etc...don't spend on frivolity.

Which doesn't mean that the best strategy for most has been to avoid mortgage interest...interesting discussion, though, on how these recent tax changes have reduced dramatically the plus side of mortgages for many.

Here you go, full circle. Using an old playbook or something that worked in one circumstance and a one size fits all strategy (cradle refers to old wars all the time) isn't a very good strategy to apply in the future without considering circumstances and new variables.

Brought it back.

[cradleandshoot]

While reading the financial opinions here is interesting... Ain't it time to end the thread hi jack and get back to the thread topic?

+1

Apparently the thread topic has had waning interest...already.

Re Salty's strategy, sounds to me like his current financial position was driven by his income (or potentially inheritance), not whether he paid interest on assets like a home. In other words, a lot of in coming $. But yes, spending and purchasing within that income. But a lot of income. A lot of wealthy folks run beat up cars into the ground, wear 30 year old rumpled suits etc...don't spend on frivolity.

Which doesn't mean that the best strategy for most has been to avoid mortgage interest...interesting discussion, though, on how these recent tax changes have reduced dramatically the plus side of mortgages for many.

Here you go, full circle. Using an old playbook or something that worked in one circumstance and a one size fits all strategy (cradle refers to old wars all the time) isn't a very good strategy to apply in the future without considering circumstances and new variables.

Brought it back.

My recent comparison to conflicts of decades ago are not made for snips and giggles. I day them to reinforce the saying of with we can't remember the past we are condemned to repeat it. To get back to Joe Bidens eff up in Afghanistan here is my 64 thousand dollar question. What advice did Lloyd Austin give to Joe Biden? It could be the reason that Austin took a pass on testifying next to Winkin Blinken? He might be forced to telling America how Biden ignored the advice of his own people. The navy folks call it damage control. Eventually Austin will have testify under oath. Wonder what he will have to say?