All things CoronaVirus

[runrussellrun]

Four Months Later, Still No Vaccine Waiver
BY COLE STANGLER – 10 SEP 2021 – VIEW ONLINE →

British protestors wearing giant heads of the G7 leaders tussle over a COVID-19 vaccine syringe. (AP Photo/Kirsty Wigglesworth)
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In May, the Biden administration made a bombshell declaration, endorsing a call to temporarily suspend intellectual property rights on COVID vaccines that health and trade experts say could greatly improve access to shots in the Global South — a move that appeared to mark a turning point in the global fight against the pandemic.

Months later, though, as the pandemic rages and the glaring gap in vaccine access grows, the effort remains blocked at the World Trade Organization (WTO). Any waiver for vaccines needs the green light from the organization’s TRIPS Council — the commission in charge of IP rights — and unanimous support from all 164 members. But as delegations return to Geneva after summer break, a long-circulated proposal backed by India and South Africa has yet to gain traction.

Meanwhile, the Biden administration — which has deep ties to the pharmaceutical industry — has proven unwilling to share vaccine recipes with other countries, as The Daily Poster reported earlier this week.

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“It’s really upsetting watching this process,” says Hu Yuan Qiong, policy co-coordinator and senior legal and policy advisor for Doctors Without Borders’ Access Campaign. “Viruses disregard whatever game we’re playing in human society, they just carry on and mutate.”

The deadlock is the product of multiple factors. Hostility from the United Kingdom and the European Union as well as criticism from Big Pharma have complicated efforts, but as experts tell The Daily Poster, so has the apparent unwillingness of the Biden administration to go beyond its four-month-old statement and actually start pressing for a waiver.

“I’ve been working on trade policy for a while and I know when the U.S. wants something, they get it,” Burcu Kilic, a trade policy expert at Public Citizen, tells The Daily Poster. “The U.S. should [play] a proactive role in this discussion.”

European Intransigence Amid Pharma’s Lobbying Blitz
One immediate obstacle is the United Kingdom. As Hu from Doctors Without Borders says, Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s government has shown little interest in changing its position over the last few months. She says it’s effectively stuck to the talking points of AstraZeneca, pointing to the pharmaceutical company’s willingness to work with producers in the developing world as supposed evidence that a waiver is unnecessary.

Appearing before the TRIPS Council in June, for instance, the British government argued that technology transfers and voluntary licensing “exemplified by the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine” and its partnerships are “making real, positive impact.” In a statement, the U.K. said it was not “convinced how an IP waiver, if agreed, would increase the supply of COVID-19 goods.”

Hu doesn’t buy it. “We’ve explained to them, ‘We’re not just talking about AstraZeneca vaccines, we’re talking about many vaccines and many treatments,’” she says of the UK. “Maybe a company like AstraZeneca has done a little bit more than another company, but that will not solve the global issue.”

An ideal waiver on IP rights, she stresses, would also cover the two messenger RNA vaccines developed by Pfizer and Moderna, as well as medical equipment, technologies used for therapeutic treatment, and future vaccines.

Lobbying disclosure regulations in the U.K. are relatively weak. Only lobbyists working for third-party firms are required to sign the country’s lobbying register, which, as a result, covers just a small fraction of the country’s lobbyists, most of whom are employed in-house.

Still, British government departments are required to disclose information about meetings with external organizations — and according to records compiled by Transparency International and consulted by The Daily Poster, no single external organization in the UK has met more than with the British government since the beginning of 2021 than AstraZeneca. The Cambridge-based pharmaceutical giant beat out the country’s top business lobby, the Confederation of British Industry, and the Port of Dover, the massive seaport that has struggled to adjust to Brexit.

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In the meantime, the European Union also continues to oppose a proposed TRIPS waiver. While several national governments — including France and Spain — have said they support a waiver, what ultimately counts in Geneva is the stance of the EU’s executive branch, the European Commission. Rather than open up talks over the text backed by South Africa and India, the EU has offered up a separate proposal of its own, bogging down the discussion.

EU officials maintain a broad waiver on IP rights for vaccines doesn’t address the underlying problem of inadequate manufacturing capacity. According to this argument, even if producers in lower-income countries had the legal authority to start churning out COVID vaccines, they wouldn’t be able to because they lack the factories or technological know-how.

But Hu of Doctors Without Borders says that’s a red herring. Like many supporters of a temporary suspension in IP rights, she doesn’t claim a waiver will result in a transformation overnight. Instead she views it as a launching pad to a scenario in which knowledge, data, and technology can flow more freely between states and manufacturers.

“We can’t say, ‘Ok you have a law’ and then tomorrow start [producing],’ it’s not going to happen that fast,” she explains. “But the earlier you open the door, the more certainty you can provide for the producers so they can prepare… the longer they don’t allow this door to open, the more problems we’ll face.”

As The Daily Poster has previously reported, Big Pharma boasts a heavy presence in Brussels. Between March 2020 and May 2021, EU commissioners involved in medicine and vaccine issues met 140 times with pharmaceutical companies and just once with an organization that supports a waiver on IP rights, according to the Corporate Europe Observatory, a watchdog group. Last year, Europe’s top pharmaceutical lobby spent more than €5.25 million on lobbying EU officials, the eighth highest amount reported by any lobbying organization in the EU in 2020.

For Hu, Big Pharma’s political influence helps explain the hostility from both London and Brussels to a waiver. “We strongly believe there is a direct correlation,” she says.

Closely-related political and ideological factors help drive pushback as well — especially when it comes to Europe’s largest economy and most prominent opponent of a waiver, Germany.

The country is home to BioNTech, which developed the widely-used mRNA shot alongside Pfizer. Even though the latter company has reaped most of the vaccine’s financial rewards, Burcu Kilic of Public Citizen says that officials in Berlin seem to regard vaccine development as a source of national pride. For many within Chancellor Angela Merkel’s ruling party, the Christian Democratic Union, there is a sense that lifting IP protections amounts to a slap in the face to national industry.

“It goes beyond BioNTech,” Kilic says. “It’s about German inventions, German [small and mid-sized enterprises], Germany saving the world… it’s political but it’s also emotional.”

American Indifference
Both Hu and Kilic argue the U.S. should be more aggressive — by putting pressure on its allies to back a waiver or, at the very least, by jumpstarting serious negotiations.

Up until now, the Biden administration has largely kept to the sidelines on the issue of IP rights. However, the U.S. government may already have a strong case that it owns the IP on the Moderna vaccine, given its role in the shot’s development. The Biden administration could, in theory, share information about the dose with other producers — as the South Korean government has already requested.

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But even beyond the narrow issue of the Moderna shot, the American agency that negotiates trade policy, the United States Trade Representative (USTR), hasn’t issued a statement on the subject of a vaccine waiver since its widely-celebrated declaration of support back in May.

“That’s not usually what the U.S. or USTR does in these types of negotiations,” says Kilic from Public Citizen. “It’s like Lionel Messi saying ‘I want to be in the World Cup,’ but then he’s not playing. You say you want a waiver, but you don’t do anything about it.”

The USTR did not respond to a request for comment.

In any case, the WTO’s TRIPS Council is slated to meet informally next week, on September 14. After weeks of inaction, that meeting could prove the impetus for progress, even if a full breakthrough doesn’t come until later in the year.

Kilic remains optimistic that the deadlock will break. For one, she says political pressure is mounting on the U.S., EU, and UK. But she also argues the future of the WTO is at stake — a fact that helps explain why the organization’s newly-appointed director-general Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala has taken an active role in talks.

“In the last decade, the WTO became a non-functional organization, and there’s pressure on the WTO and the WTO leadership to do something about that,” Kilic says. “[The director-general] knows that if they let this go, this’ll be the end of the WTO.”

That doesn’t necessarily mean the result will be to the liking of those pushing for a broad waiver. Unlike India and South Africa, for instance, the U.S. has called for a waiver that covers vaccines alone — not medical equipment or other COVID-related treatments.

Kilic also expects Big Pharma to start flexing its muscles in the coming weeks. If a deal at the WTO appears inevitable, industry will want to shape that outcome in its favor. She says much of the final outcome may depend on the Biden administration.

“We need them to take the lead,” Kilic says of the U.S. “I believe there will be something, but the question is, what will it be?”

[wgdsr]

Good to hear they will be studying this.

My wife experienced some odd side effects after the Pfizer. Heard a few anecdotal stories of others as well.

https://covid19.nih.gov/news-and-storie ... rual-cycle

... I assume these passed after a period of time?

No. Been weird and unpredictable since March.

... interesting.

This is the reason many are leery of getting the shot. They're quickly labeled anti vaxers or conspiracy theorists but that's not necessarily the case at all. There are still a lot of unknowns here and time will tell whether there was anything to be concerned about or not, but as of right now we don't know that.
Sincerely hope all turns out well, kram...and for everyone else too.

Roughly 2% of people that catch a Covid case dies. That’s about 2 out of 100 people or 4.624 million dead people out of 224.279 million cases… if a person is “leery” thats what they should be “leery” of.

don't test and your odds get much better.

1 out if 5,000 or so folks have “breakthrough”
Infection. That’s too high a rate. Why get vaccinated.

as long as you don't live in massachusetts, anyway. place is like the plague. 5x that number 3 months ago before delta really showed up. don't go over the border.

[Farfromgeneva]

Good to hear they will be studying this.

My wife experienced some odd side effects after the Pfizer. Heard a few anecdotal stories of others as well.

https://covid19.nih.gov/news-and-storie ... rual-cycle

... I assume these passed after a period of time?

No. Been weird and unpredictable since March.

... interesting.

This is the reason many are leery of getting the shot. They're quickly labeled anti vaxers or conspiracy theorists but that's not necessarily the case at all. There are still a lot of unknowns here and time will tell whether there was anything to be concerned about or not, but as of right now we don't know that.
Sincerely hope all turns out well, kram...and for everyone else too.

Roughly 2% of people that catch a Covid case dies. That’s about 2 out of 100 people or 4.624 million dead people out of 224.279 million cases… if a person is “leery” thats what they should be “leery” of.

don't test and your odds get much better.

1 out if 5,000 or so folks have “breakthrough”
Infection. That’s too high a rate. Why get vaccinated.

as long as you don't live in massachusetts, anyway. place is like the plague. 5x that number 3 months ago before delta really showed up. don't go over the border.

It’s cold and miserable in Mass

[jhu72]

because we said so. Why do you fear finding facts? Facts..........fully vaccinated people are being hospilalized......oops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtFapXG1zbo

... THIS IS COSMICALLY DUMB!! Of course fully vaccinated people are catching COVID and being hospitalized in some cases. SO WHAT? It was always going to be this way. Nearly every other vaccine we have ever developed has breakthroughs. It is pure statistics. You know how you tell when we have this thing under control, 90% of your cases in hospitals are fully vaccinated! The evidence is in, the experiment has been done, those fully vaccinated have a significantly smaller chance of being infected than the unvaccinated, same goes for hospitalization.

There is NO OOPS!

of course......so what .......

This is the messaging ? yikes.



and , once again, you are ignoring the covid survivors.......and their antibodies.....


redundent to call me dumb? Yet another personal attack.

More lists....let us know who is smart and knows everything. Enjoy the day, it started out with insulting someone.......let that continue.
I think I will kill myself, with all this worldwide love.

COVID survivors do gain a degree of immunity, 600,000 people have died in the US paying for your survivor immunity. More are paying every day. And COVID survivors are known to get re-infected, and in some cases end up in the hospital -- but this is not an OOPS, right.

Please, the average age of the dead is 75. And 80% were obese. ALL had medical issues. Had one foot out the door, anyway. This has been covered.

Do you think I choose to get covid?

Oh.....please provide the actual numbers of covid survivors that got reinfected, and in the hospital. Prove this statement to be true. No media links, just real scienctists.

See you next time.....as you won't.

1) Your average age of death argument doesn't truly represent the situation. Those under 70 have been producing the majority of cases for some time and the numbers show those in the the younger cohorts are dying at increased rates while those vaccinated and over 70 are less likely to be infected, hospitalized and die, today and as we move into the future the average age is moving lower.

2) You want a good study of the unvaccinated being re-infected, the best I have seen is a Danish study conducted in 2020 and publish in March 2021. Their results show unvaccinated people only have an ~80% protection against re-infection. The study also shows a re-infection rate of 5.6 per 100,000.

The US breakthrough rate varies widely from state to state. In high vaccination rate states, the number ranges from 5 to 10. It is much worse in states with low vaccination rates - it should be obvious why. The Danish study re-infection rate number is a lower limit based on factors they did not consider (like false negatives in PCR testing, COVID infections after wave 1 and prior to wave 2, and being a pre-delta study, all of this pushes their number higher). The real number is probably closer to 10. In any case there is insufficient analysis to claim one case produces a lower rate than the other.

3) There is more to immunity and fighting a virus than anti-bodies. You have to consider the two types of T cells and the B cells as well.

Danish Study.

the study did look at what the effect would be for false tests (negligible) and infections between waves ( shortening gap and also frequently tested healthcare workers). of course, not delta. false negatives should be small correction, I recall they talked about recognizing the wave gap was a problem, but don't recall them actually including it in their calculation
# per 100,000 wouldn't seem to be much of a comparison to me unless the timelines matched up. protection vs unvaxxed/uninfected would be.

reinfection for > 65's was <50% and that's obviously much worse. Agree
have you seen breakthru protection yet broken down by age? and for delta? Don't recall seeing
i'm interested in how the wild numbers from israel study shakes out.

[a fan]

This is the reason many are leery of getting the shot. They're quickly labeled
I talked to a guy who works for me the other day who is 34 and hasn’t gotten a shot yet. I asked out of curiosity and he explained he felt like the science was still undetermined but he had no objection to the vaccine or concept of in general or over political grounds.

The science is still undetermined about Covid itself. What happens if we find out there are long term health issues with getting even mild cases of Covid?

Example in my industry? The anosmia that so many talk about...loss of smell and taste.

In the spirits, beer, and wine industry---guess what happens if you either lose your sense of smell...or if it's permanently altered? Career, over.

I know two whiskey blenders that still don't haven't returned to their normal sense of smell a full year+ after getting Covid. Mid-six figure jobs, at the top of the industry.

Terrifying.

I’m paraphrasing slightly think he said verbatim “figured I’d wait for all the high risk folks to get done and see how the rest of the science shakes out”. Let’s also understand I HAVE TWO SHOTS AS IVE STATED MANY TIMES BEFORE

I'm sorry for my lack of clarity----my response was aimed at your co-worker, not at you.

I’m sharing a story and one to point out this isn’t a trumper even if his parents live in Blairsville and Macon, he’s more like a young-ish 30s guy who thinks he’s enlightened.

Yes. It's virtue signaling---they think this means they are free thinkers. You're a sheep if you do what your doctor recommends.

[Farfromgeneva]

This is the reason many are leery of getting the shot. They're quickly labeled
I talked to a guy who works for me the other day who is 34 and hasn’t gotten a shot yet. I asked out of curiosity and he explained he felt like the science was still undetermined but he had no objection to the vaccine or concept of in general or over political grounds.

The science is still undetermined about Covid itself. What happens if we find out there are long term health issues with getting even mild cases of Covid?

Example in my industry? The anosmia that so many talk about...loss of smell and taste.

In the spirits, beer, and wine industry---guess what happens if you either lose your sense of smell...or if it's permanently altered? Career, over.

I know two whiskey blenders that still don't haven't returned to their normal sense of smell a full year+ after getting Covid. Mid-six figure jobs, at the top of the industry.

Terrifying.

I’m paraphrasing slightly think he said verbatim “figured I’d wait for all the high risk folks to get done and see how the rest of the science shakes out”. Let’s also understand I HAVE TWO SHOTS AS IVE STATED MANY TIMES BEFORE

I'm sorry for my lack of clarity----my response was aimed at your co-worker, not at you.

I’m sharing a story and one to point out this isn’t a trumper even if his parents live in Blairsville and Macon, he’s more like a young-ish 30s guy who thinks he’s enlightened.

Yes. It's virtue signaling---they think this means they are free thinkers. You're a sheep if you do what your doctor recommends.

No worries I got a few replies like I endorsed it. Simply sharing another human actual experience over theoretical which we get bogged down in too much even while recognizing what anecdotal exactly is.

I guess you could call it virtue signaling. I hate that term and think it’s overused. It’s less moral (virtue) to me than just getting ahead of themselves which I suspect anyone who’s learning, reading and listening in their 20s will give in to at various degrees.

[old salt]

OSHA inspectors around the country are jumping off bridges, except those who inspect Post Offices.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Good to hear they will be studying this.

My wife experienced some odd side effects after the Pfizer. Heard a few anecdotal stories of others as well.

https://covid19.nih.gov/news-and-storie ... rual-cycle

... I assume these passed after a period of time?

No. Been weird and unpredictable since March.

... interesting.

This is the reason many are leery of getting the shot. They're quickly labeled anti vaxers or conspiracy theorists but that's not necessarily the case at all. There are still a lot of unknowns here and time will tell whether there was anything to be concerned about or not, but as of right now we don't know that.
Sincerely hope all turns out well, kram...and for everyone else too.

Roughly 2% of people that catch a Covid case dies. That’s about 2 out of 100 people or 4.624 million dead people out of 224.279 million cases… if a person is “leery” thats what they should be “leery” of.

don't test and your odds get much better.

1 out if 5,000 or so folks have “breakthrough”
Infection. That’s too high a rate. Why get vaccinated.

as long as you don't live in massachusetts, anyway. place is like the plague. 5x that number 3 months ago before delta really showed up. don't go over the border.

When it gets to be 1 out of 50, I will be concerned.

[wgdsr]

Good to hear they will be studying this.

My wife experienced some odd side effects after the Pfizer. Heard a few anecdotal stories of others as well.

https://covid19.nih.gov/news-and-storie ... rual-cycle

... I assume these passed after a period of time?

No. Been weird and unpredictable since March.

... interesting.

This is the reason many are leery of getting the shot. They're quickly labeled anti vaxers or conspiracy theorists but that's not necessarily the case at all. There are still a lot of unknowns here and time will tell whether there was anything to be concerned about or not, but as of right now we don't know that.
Sincerely hope all turns out well, kram...and for everyone else too.

Roughly 2% of people that catch a Covid case dies. That’s about 2 out of 100 people or 4.624 million dead people out of 224.279 million cases… if a person is “leery” thats what they should be “leery” of.

don't test and your odds get much better.

1 out if 5,000 or so folks have “breakthrough”
Infection. That’s too high a rate. Why get vaccinated.

as long as you don't live in massachusetts, anyway. place is like the plague. 5x that number 3 months ago before delta really showed up. don't go over the border.

When it gets to be 1 out of 50, I will be concerned.

not 62?
you're the king of if it didn't test or report in vaers, it didn't happen now that the other guy is holed up at mar-a-lago.

also, i don't believe you. else, you'd be partying like it was 1999, maskless and all.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Good to hear they will be studying this.

My wife experienced some odd side effects after the Pfizer. Heard a few anecdotal stories of others as well.

https://covid19.nih.gov/news-and-storie ... rual-cycle

... I assume these passed after a period of time?

No. Been weird and unpredictable since March.

... interesting.

This is the reason many are leery of getting the shot. They're quickly labeled anti vaxers or conspiracy theorists but that's not necessarily the case at all. There are still a lot of unknowns here and time will tell whether there was anything to be concerned about or not, but as of right now we don't know that.
Sincerely hope all turns out well, kram...and for everyone else too.

Roughly 2% of people that catch a Covid case dies. That’s about 2 out of 100 people or 4.624 million dead people out of 224.279 million cases… if a person is “leery” thats what they should be “leery” of.

don't test and your odds get much better.

1 out if 5,000 or so folks have “breakthrough”
Infection. That’s too high a rate. Why get vaccinated.

as long as you don't live in massachusetts, anyway. place is like the plague. 5x that number 3 months ago before delta really showed up. don't go over the border.

When it gets to be 1 out of 50, I will be concerned.

not 62?
you're the king of if it didn't test or report in vaers, it didn't happen now that the other guy is holed up at mar-a-lago.

also, i don't believe you. else, you'd be partying like it was 1999, maskless and all.

Nope. 1 in 50 is close enough. At that time, I’ll get boosted and cross my fingers again. What are you considering? You forget I am a plan for the worse hope for the best type. Just how I am in most aspects of life, within reason (to me). You can go maskless and vaxx-less until we have more certainty, if you want.

[wgdsr]

Good to hear they will be studying this.

My wife experienced some odd side effects after the Pfizer. Heard a few anecdotal stories of others as well.

https://covid19.nih.gov/news-and-storie ... rual-cycle

... I assume these passed after a period of time?

No. Been weird and unpredictable since March.

... interesting.

This is the reason many are leery of getting the shot. They're quickly labeled anti vaxers or conspiracy theorists but that's not necessarily the case at all. There are still a lot of unknowns here and time will tell whether there was anything to be concerned about or not, but as of right now we don't know that.
Sincerely hope all turns out well, kram...and for everyone else too.

Roughly 2% of people that catch a Covid case dies. That’s about 2 out of 100 people or 4.624 million dead people out of 224.279 million cases… if a person is “leery” thats what they should be “leery” of.

don't test and your odds get much better.

1 out if 5,000 or so folks have “breakthrough”
Infection. That’s too high a rate. Why get vaccinated.

as long as you don't live in massachusetts, anyway. place is like the plague. 5x that number 3 months ago before delta really showed up. don't go over the border.

When it gets to be 1 out of 50, I will be concerned.

not 62?
you're the king of if it didn't test or report in vaers, it didn't happen now that the other guy is holed up at mar-a-lago.

also, i don't believe you. else, you'd be partying like it was 1999, maskless and all.

Nope. 1 in 50 is close enough. At that time, I’ll get boosted and cross my fingers again. What are you considering?

i'm considering on this thread that more than 2.9% of the global population has caught covid, and that massachusetts is like a deathtrap compared to the u.s.

[runrussellrun]

This is the reason many are leery of getting the shot. They're quickly labeled
I talked to a guy who works for me the other day who is 34 and hasn’t gotten a shot yet. I asked out of curiosity and he explained he felt like the science was still undetermined but he had no objection to the vaccine or concept of in general or over political grounds.

The science is still undetermined about Covid itself. What happens if we find out there are long term health issues with getting even mild cases of Covid?

Example in my industry? The anosmia that so many talk about...loss of smell and taste.

In the spirits, beer, and wine industry---guess what happens if you either lose your sense of smell...or if it's permanently altered? Career, over.

I know two whiskey blenders that still don't haven't returned to their normal sense of smell a full year+ after getting Covid. Mid-six figure jobs, at the top of the industry.

Terrifying.

I’m paraphrasing slightly think he said verbatim “figured I’d wait for all the high risk folks to get done and see how the rest of the science shakes out”. Let’s also understand I HAVE TWO SHOTS AS IVE STATED MANY TIMES BEFORE

I'm sorry for my lack of clarity----my response was aimed at your co-worker, not at you.

I’m sharing a story and one to point out this isn’t a trumper even if his parents live in Blairsville and Macon, he’s more like a young-ish 30s guy who thinks he’s enlightened.

Yes. It's virtue signaling---they think this means they are free thinkers. You're a sheep if you do what your doctor recommends.

No, you're a sheep because you want others to listen to your doctor, as well. Why think, at all, when we have your doctors advice ?

also, sheep like behavior to lump covid survivors into the anti vaxx camp, especially, when it's there business as to why, logically, it would make sense to take a very unproven drug (and, as each day passes, we are learning it ain't working out so great.....and them side effects ? boy, peeling them off and slapping em down. )

A few posts back, someone mentioned a horrible side effect, messing up a womans reproductive process......cool, what could go wrong. Don't think about it, the vaccine is "free".

[Typical Lax Dad]

Good to hear they will be studying this.

My wife experienced some odd side effects after the Pfizer. Heard a few anecdotal stories of others as well.

https://covid19.nih.gov/news-and-storie ... rual-cycle

... I assume these passed after a period of time?

No. Been weird and unpredictable since March.

... interesting.

This is the reason many are leery of getting the shot. They're quickly labeled anti vaxers or conspiracy theorists but that's not necessarily the case at all. There are still a lot of unknowns here and time will tell whether there was anything to be concerned about or not, but as of right now we don't know that.
Sincerely hope all turns out well, kram...and for everyone else too.

Roughly 2% of people that catch a Covid case dies. That’s about 2 out of 100 people or 4.624 million dead people out of 224.279 million cases… if a person is “leery” thats what they should be “leery” of.

don't test and your odds get much better.

1 out if 5,000 or so folks have “breakthrough”
Infection. That’s too high a rate. Why get vaccinated.

as long as you don't live in massachusetts, anyway. place is like the plague. 5x that number 3 months ago before delta really showed up. don't go over the border.

When it gets to be 1 out of 50, I will be concerned.

not 62?
you're the king of if it didn't test or report in vaers, it didn't happen now that the other guy is holed up at mar-a-lago.

also, i don't believe you. else, you'd be partying like it was 1999, maskless and all.

Nope. 1 in 50 is close enough. At that time, I’ll get boosted and cross my fingers again. What are you considering?

i'm considering on this thread that more than 2.9% of the global population has caught covid, and that massachusetts is like a deathtrap compared to the u.s.

I am thinking we have about 4.6 million in excess deaths. A meaningless number I supposed given only 2.9% of the population has caught covid. Liberate your state. Move on with life.

[wgdsr]

Good to hear they will be studying this.

My wife experienced some odd side effects after the Pfizer. Heard a few anecdotal stories of others as well.

https://covid19.nih.gov/news-and-storie ... rual-cycle

... I assume these passed after a period of time?

No. Been weird and unpredictable since March.

... interesting.

This is the reason many are leery of getting the shot. They're quickly labeled anti vaxers or conspiracy theorists but that's not necessarily the case at all. There are still a lot of unknowns here and time will tell whether there was anything to be concerned about or not, but as of right now we don't know that.
Sincerely hope all turns out well, kram...and for everyone else too.

Roughly 2% of people that catch a Covid case dies. That’s about 2 out of 100 people or 4.624 million dead people out of 224.279 million cases… if a person is “leery” thats what they should be “leery” of.

don't test and your odds get much better.

1 out if 5,000 or so folks have “breakthrough”
Infection. That’s too high a rate. Why get vaccinated.

as long as you don't live in massachusetts, anyway. place is like the plague. 5x that number 3 months ago before delta really showed up. don't go over the border.

When it gets to be 1 out of 50, I will be concerned.

not 62?
you're the king of if it didn't test or report in vaers, it didn't happen now that the other guy is holed up at mar-a-lago.

also, i don't believe you. else, you'd be partying like it was 1999, maskless and all.

Nope. 1 in 50 is close enough. At that time, I’ll get boosted and cross my fingers again. What are you considering?

i'm considering on this thread that more than 2.9% of the global population has caught covid, and that massachusetts is like a deathtrap compared to the u.s.

I am thinking we have about 4.6 million in excess deaths. A meaningless number I supposed given only 2.9% of the population has caught covid. Liberate your state. Move on with life.

don't get tested and you should be fine.

[runrussellrun]

uncool, I love Massachusettes. You all wouldn''t exist without some jerk love

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy88-5pc7c8

Remember all those Genzyme employees who got sick, early on ? Like REAL sick.....anyone know what happened to them ?

(as maybe, 2 or 3 read this

[runrussellrun]

Just like Jonathan, been around the world.....nothing better. We have WATER......fresh, clean water. Well, sort of, in some areas.

And great research welfare departments.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e14fz_WmQY

[Typical Lax Dad]

Good to hear they will be studying this.

My wife experienced some odd side effects after the Pfizer. Heard a few anecdotal stories of others as well.

https://covid19.nih.gov/news-and-storie ... rual-cycle

... I assume these passed after a period of time?

No. Been weird and unpredictable since March.

... interesting.

This is the reason many are leery of getting the shot. They're quickly labeled anti vaxers or conspiracy theorists but that's not necessarily the case at all. There are still a lot of unknowns here and time will tell whether there was anything to be concerned about or not, but as of right now we don't know that.
Sincerely hope all turns out well, kram...and for everyone else too.

Roughly 2% of people that catch a Covid case dies. That’s about 2 out of 100 people or 4.624 million dead people out of 224.279 million cases… if a person is “leery” thats what they should be “leery” of.

don't test and your odds get much better.

1 out if 5,000 or so folks have “breakthrough”
Infection. That’s too high a rate. Why get vaccinated.

as long as you don't live in massachusetts, anyway. place is like the plague. 5x that number 3 months ago before delta really showed up. don't go over the border.

When it gets to be 1 out of 50, I will be concerned.

not 62?
you're the king of if it didn't test or report in vaers, it didn't happen now that the other guy is holed up at mar-a-lago.

also, i don't believe you. else, you'd be partying like it was 1999, maskless and all.

Nope. 1 in 50 is close enough. At that time, I’ll get boosted and cross my fingers again. What are you considering?

i'm considering on this thread that more than 2.9% of the global population has caught covid, and that massachusetts is like a deathtrap compared to the u.s.

I am thinking we have about 4.6 million in excess deaths. A meaningless number I supposed given only 2.9% of the population has caught covid. Liberate your state. Move on with life.

don't get tested and you should be fine.

Yep. We all have to die of something at some point. Sooner, later, what difference does it make. Life will go on. Best friend died a couple of weeks ago. Wasn’t COVID-19, but what difference does it make. Live until you die. Throw caution to the wind. It’s only life.

[wgdsr]

well, take heart that a very large cohort that says that will soon be pondering whether how they live matters, too.
very sorry about your friend.

[Farfromgeneva]

Good to hear they will be studying this.

My wife experienced some odd side effects after the Pfizer. Heard a few anecdotal stories of others as well.

https://covid19.nih.gov/news-and-storie ... rual-cycle

... I assume these passed after a period of time?

No. Been weird and unpredictable since March.

... interesting.

This is the reason many are leery of getting the shot. They're quickly labeled anti vaxers or conspiracy theorists but that's not necessarily the case at all. There are still a lot of unknowns here and time will tell whether there was anything to be concerned about or not, but as of right now we don't know that.
Sincerely hope all turns out well, kram...and for everyone else too.

Roughly 2% of people that catch a Covid case dies. That’s about 2 out of 100 people or 4.624 million dead people out of 224.279 million cases… if a person is “leery” thats what they should be “leery” of.

don't test and your odds get much better.

1 out if 5,000 or so folks have “breakthrough”
Infection. That’s too high a rate. Why get vaccinated.

as long as you don't live in massachusetts, anyway. place is like the plague. 5x that number 3 months ago before delta really showed up. don't go over the border.

When it gets to be 1 out of 50, I will be concerned.

not 62?
you're the king of if it didn't test or report in vaers, it didn't happen now that the other guy is holed up at mar-a-lago.

also, i don't believe you. else, you'd be partying like it was 1999, maskless and all.

Nope. 1 in 50 is close enough. At that time, I’ll get boosted and cross my fingers again. What are you considering?

i'm considering on this thread that more than 2.9% of the global population has caught covid, and that massachusetts is like a deathtrap compared to the u.s.

I am thinking we have about 4.6 million in excess deaths. A meaningless number I supposed given only 2.9% of the population has caught covid. Liberate your state. Move on with life.

don't get tested and you should be fine.

Yep. We all have to die of something at some point. Sooner, later, what difference does it make. Life will go on. Best friend died a couple of weeks ago. Wasn’t COVID-19, but what difference does it make. Live until you die. Throw caution to the wind. It’s only life.

At some point I’d like to legalize the abilityo to slap a a person who proudly proclaims YOLO! Over time I think the term “work hard, play hard” is nonsense too and I have put in those 80-100 hour weeks over a number of years of my life. It’s justification to be less responsible if you want to she’s responsibilities then just say that is what I think.

[Farfromgeneva]

My kids school today. One teacher and family and two students in one class in little over a month. Then there’s the teacher at the equestrian event this week so we will see.

Good afternoon,
Today, one student in the class tested positive for COVID with Viral Solutions. I spoke with Nurse xxxxx, cluster nurse for Midtown. We determined that this case is not related to the previous case on August 27th which is two weeks prior. It is also unrelated to Ms. xxxxxx’s family absences.
The parents will follow up with PCR testing and I will let you know if there are changes. Please let me know if you have any additional questions.
Thank you,