All things CoronaVirus

[jhu72]

Good to hear they will be studying this.

My wife experienced some odd side effects after the Pfizer. Heard a few anecdotal stories of others as well.

https://covid19.nih.gov/news-and-storie ... rual-cycle

... I assume these passed after a period of time?

[dislaxxic]

who is making an assumption that we are railing against ANYONE other than the willfully ignorant anti-vaxxers??

Does that mean we don't recognize that there are "survivors" that had covid and are not getting vaxxed? Nope. Good for them, they're fine, drink with several such types.

Yeah, the accusation is dumb. Just feisty and over-aggressive. Off the mark.

Still wearing a mask, for sure. Often. Dumb "attack". oops.

All you people (oops, only one) seem very confused and want to lash out in any direction that isn't wearing Fatty Goggles. Jeebus.

Twist up another blunt, bruv.

We're more on the same side than you seem to realize.

..

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/fran ... index.html

[kramerica.inc]

Good to hear they will be studying this.

My wife experienced some odd side effects after the Pfizer. Heard a few anecdotal stories of others as well.

https://covid19.nih.gov/news-and-storie ... rual-cycle

... I assume these passed after a period of time?

No. Been weird and unpredictable since March.

[MDlaxfan76]

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/fran ... index.html

We should be doing this internally, all domestic interstate public travel. Planes, trains, buses.

[MDlaxfan76]

We should be doing this internally, all domestic interstate public travel. Planes, trains, buses.

So Biden is doing a lousy job, controlling the variants ?

Interesting, only months ago, so many were blaming the potusa for deaths by covid. Why is Biden getting a pass for not shutting our borders to variants.

Or, why won't you bash Biden for NOT doing this, internally ?

You know why?

Obama's maskless birthday party....for example. French Revolution was real.......so were the pretend elitist know it alls.

Please explain why our politicians feel they can walk around maskless, partying......and than tell us all we suck for doing the same.

just wow


I'm not a Democrat, much less a partisan supporter of Biden, Obama, or any other Democrat.
I like the gal running for Comptroller in Maryland, but it's not about being partisan. I'm still a Republican.

Yeah, Trump was a disaster. Told the country the exactly wrong thing about Covid at nearly every turn.Not going to go into a litany of his disastrous management, been there done that.

I would be going further than Biden did, though he's directionally been good at most every step.

I think they held off on a lot of this until they had full FDA approval, but I think the mandates for interstate travel should actually have been done a few months ago when the curve on vaccinations turned down. Still hasn't been done.

As someone who expects and wants to travel by plane soon, I sure wish those mandates were already in place. I totally agree with mask mandates in congregated indoor situations, (when infections are rising fast in community). I always put my mask on indoors in crowded places, retail stores, etc whether required or not. Not a problem. I do look forward to that not being necessary.

Have already discussed the Obama party, not going to bother doing so in detail again. There's some truth in your elitism claim, but the outdoor party was held under standards more rigorous than were required or advised by the FDA at the time, and worlds better than so many of the right wing events happening at that point.

Last, I don't expect perfection from these folks, and I'm certainly willing to critique their leadership decisions, but I do think that they're on the right track. Indeed, I'd prefer they be tougher on mandating vaccinations. But I think they're trying to be sure to not overstep federal authority...but interstate travel is within their authority.

[seacoaster]

Good to hear they will be studying this.

My wife experienced some odd side effects after the Pfizer. Heard a few anecdotal stories of others as well.

https://covid19.nih.gov/news-and-storie ... rual-cycle

... I assume these passed after a period of time?

No. Been weird and unpredictable since March.

Sorry to hear this and hope she improves. My daughter was a Pfizer recipient, and no ill effects or side effects so far. What, if you can say, are the side effects?

[runrussellrun]

We should be doing this internally, all domestic interstate public travel. Planes, trains, buses.

So Biden is doing a lousy job, controlling the variants ?

Interesting, only months ago, so many were blaming the potusa for deaths by covid. Why is Biden getting a pass for not shutting our borders to variants.

Or, why won't you bash Biden for NOT doing this, internally ?

You know why?

Obama's maskless birthday party....for example. French Revolution was real.......so were the pretend elitist know it alls.

Please explain why our politicians feel they can walk around maskless, partying......and than tell us all we suck for doing the same.

just wow


I'm not a Democrat, much less a partisan supporter of Biden, Obama, or any other Democrat.
I like the gal running for Comptroller in Maryland, but it's not about being partisan. I'm still a Republican.

Yeah, Trump was a disaster. Told the country the exactly wrong thing about Covid at nearly every turn.Not going to go into a litany of his disastrous management, been there done that.

I would be going further than Biden did, though he's directionally been good at most every step.

I think they held off on a lot of this until they had full FDA approval, but I think the mandates for interstate travel should actually have been done a few months ago when the curve on vaccinations turned down. Still hasn't been done.

As someone who expects and wants to travel by plane soon, I sure wish those mandates were already in place. I totally agree with mask mandates in congregated indoor situations, (when infections are rising fast in community). I always put my mask on indoors in crowded places, retail stores, etc whether required or not. Not a problem. I do look forward to that not being necessary.

Have already discussed the Obama party, not going to bother doing so in detail again. There's some truth in your elitism claim, but the outdoor party was held under standards more rigorous than were required or advised by the FDA at the time, and worlds better than so many of the right wing events happening at that point.

Last, I don't expect perfection from these folks, and I'm certainly willing to critique their leadership decisions, but I do think that they're on the right track. Indeed, I'd prefer they be tougher on mandating vaccinations. But I think they're trying to be sure to not overstep federal authority...but interstate travel is within their authority.

and all this time....thought you were the monied class and have been flying "private" . guess not.

what should the penalty be for forged vaxx cards?

Wouldn't be an issue if you all had followed the fatty follow up to the vaxx system. Instead, we have NO idea what these vaccines are doing, the reporting and follow up is a joke. Still is.

That is on the public health and medical community. Figured, health insurance companies would want to follow up....but why bother....no one can sue for adverse effects , anyway.

All this covid liability, for bizness....yet, we still must comply. think about it. Who is "winning" here? Certainly not us and our health.

[kramerica.inc]

Was like clockwork before. Cycle has become very unpredictable and erratic. Short one mos. Very long the next. Varying levels of uhm…
She’s been to the ob and had her numbers checked. Hormones are in range. Dr. is unsure. Hasn’t subsided yet.
We know that coincidence is not causation. But the timing did coincide with the second shot and she said another girlfriend is having a similar thing that was similarly timed.

[jhu72]

Good to hear they will be studying this.

My wife experienced some odd side effects after the Pfizer. Heard a few anecdotal stories of others as well.

https://covid19.nih.gov/news-and-storie ... rual-cycle

... I assume these passed after a period of time?

No. Been weird and unpredictable since March.

... interesting.

[a fan]

He....is a she.

Are you asking about my personal medical file and the drugs I take? Sure seems , exactly that.

No, my man. You're intentionally leaving out pertinent information, and coming on here to pick a fight. What I thought you meant (and come on, it's difficult to understand your posts...you know that) was that your doctor told you that the vaccines had "too many side effects" in general.

Your doctor told you not to take the vaccine because of your SPECIFIC medical profile, and you didn't bother telling your fellow posters that.

There isn't a single person here who would EVER want you to go against what your personal physician tells you.

I wish you good health.

[seacoaster]

Was like clockwork before. Cycle has become very unpredictable and erratic. Short one mos. Very long the next. Varying levels of uhm…
She’s been to the ob and had her numbers checked. Hormones are in range. Dr. is unsure. Hasn’t subsided yet.
We know that coincidence is not causation. But the timing did coincide with the second shot and she said another girlfriend is having a similar thing that was similarly timed.

Thanks, and again, sorry for her troubles, and yours. I'll ask my daughter if she's had any reaction akin to this. The rest of our family got Moderna.

[a fan]

a fan, perhaps that's a rhetorical question and you're somehow playing gothcha with rrr?

No, I was getting him to clarify his statement.

And as you saw, we found that his doctor told him not to get the vaccine because of his own personal risk profile.

And as Dis just said----no one, and I mean no one in America has a problem with that. I wish RRR the best of health, and completely understand why he wouldn't take the shot.

Early on there weren't any mainstream Dr.s who knew what the side effects were any more than you or I did. And of course, long-term effects remain an unknown.

Yes, but you're forgetting that this is the case with 100% of drugs. And foods, for that matter. If the entire US population eats a Maryland Crab, will some have a severe reaction and die?

You bet they will. So now you're in a logic trap, when you now understand that ALL drugs have side effects. IVM that you want researched----what's the data on side effects? Is it 100% safe? No. So tell me....since IVM isn't 100% safe with zero side effects....what do you want American researchers to do?

You're trying to hold these vaccines to a standard that doesn't exist. My mom can't take ibuprofen because it gives her severe stomach aches. Life on Earth.

Couple that with capricious messaging, and even outright lies offered up by the medical establishment and so-called experts... then, throw on the politics of an already divided country. How is it a mystery the way things have unfolded?

Yes, but you blame the medical establishment, when that's not the problem.

Tech, for heaven's sake----what do you think would have happened if this had broken out during the Reagan era? You know EXACTLY what would have happened. We would have had an orderly, 90%+ vaccine rate, and everyone would have been grateful to get it. And the medical establishment would have been able to do things like talk about IVM treatments.

This is 2021. We're paying the price for the internet, and media outlets that get paid for clicks (outrage).

My farming network? They're not talking about side effects, my friend. They're talking about deep conspiracies, and that the virus isn't real, and is being used to control citizens.

And with all this going on, I have a 7 year old who can't take the vaccine. Hooray!

[Typical Lax Dad]

Was like clockwork before. Cycle has become very unpredictable and erratic. Short one mos. Very long the next. Varying levels of uhm…
She’s been to the ob and had her numbers checked. Hormones are in range. Dr. is unsure. Hasn’t subsided yet.
We know that coincidence is not causation. But the timing did coincide with the second shot and she said another girlfriend is having a similar thing that was similarly timed.

Thanks, and again, sorry for her troubles, and yours. I'll ask my daughter if she's had any reaction akin to this. The rest of our family got Moderna.

My wife had a similar situation but it cleared up quickly. Her doctor told her there had been a few cases like hers but they all resolved.

[Farfromgeneva]

a fan, perhaps that's a rhetorical question and you're somehow playing gothcha with rrr?

No, I was getting him to clarify his statement.

And as you saw, we found that his doctor told him not to get the vaccine because of his own personal risk profile.

And as Dis just said----no one, and I mean no one in America has a problem with that. I wish RRR the best of health, and completely understand why he wouldn't take the shot.

Early on there weren't any mainstream Dr.s who knew what the side effects were any more than you or I did. And of course, long-term effects remain an unknown.

Yes, but you're forgetting that this is the case with 100% of drugs. And foods, for that matter. If the entire US population eats a Maryland Crab, will some have a severe reaction and die?

You bet they will. So now you're in a logic trap, when you now understand that ALL drugs have side effects. IVM that you want researched----what's the data on side effects? Is it 100% safe? No. So tell me....since IVM isn't 100% safe with zero side effects....what do you want American researchers to do?

You're trying to hold these vaccines to a standard that doesn't exist. My mom can't take ibuprofen because it gives her severe stomach aches. Life on Earth.

Couple that with capricious messaging, and even outright lies offered up by the medical establishment and so-called experts... then, throw on the politics of an already divided country. How is it a mystery the way things have unfolded?

Yes, but you blame the medical establishment, when that's not the problem.

Tech, for heaven's sake----what do you think would have happened if this had broken out during the Reagan era? You know EXACTLY what would have happened. We would have had an orderly, 90%+ vaccine rate, and everyone would have been grateful to get it. And the medical establishment would have been able to do things like talk about IVM treatments.

This is 2021. We're paying the price for the internet, and media outlets that get paid for clicks (outrage).

My farming network? They're not talking about side effects, my friend. They're talking about deep conspiracies, and that the virus isn't real, and is being used to control citizens.

And with all this going on, I have a 7 year old who can't take the vaccine. Hooray!

The trouble with new drugs

GettyImages-909288366
May 2, 2019
By Robert H. Shmerling, MD, Senior Faculty Editor, Harvard Health Publishing
When a drug is approved by the FDA, it may seem like it’s only a matter of time before some unexpected side effects are discovered. Perhaps it seems that way because it’s true! According to a study of all drugs approved between 2001 and 2010, the FDA announced alerts, warnings, or recalls on about one-third of them in the years after their approval.

Some of the side effects were minor and easily managed. For example, there might be a warning to avoid taking a new medication at the same time as another medication. But sometimes the “side effect” is death. And that’s the case with a new warning about the gout drug febuxostat.

An ancient disease, new treatments, new concerns

Gout can cause joint pain that’s excruciating and debilitating, but it is highly treatable and even preventable. In recent years, a number of new drugs have been approved, including febuxostat. Although it was approved in 2009, some of the early studies raised concerns that people who took febuxostat might have a higher rate of cardiovascular events such as heart attacks. As a result, the FDA required the drug’s maker to perform additional research after its approval.

The additional research confirmed that the safety concerns were justified: when compared with people taking allopurinol, an older gout drug, researchers observed a small but significant increase in the rates of cardiovascular death, and death from all causes, among people taking febuxostat. This led the FDA to issue a “black box warning” — the strongest action short of a recall — about the risks of taking this drug and how allopurinol should be tried first.

View COVID-19 Clinical Education Series: Clarifying Evidence-Based Information
If you’re taking febuxostat now, talk to your doctor about this new development and whether you should continue it, stop it, or switch to another treatment.

What’s a black box warning, anyway?

Depending on the level of concern, the FDA has several ways to communicate new warnings regarding the safety of an approved drug:

Medication guides. These are printed reports routinely provided to patients by pharmacists for certain medications, intended to reduce serious side effects.
Prescription drug labeling. This is the package insert that provides detailed information about an individual drug. These often contain a section for patients using nonmedical terminology, though most of the content is in “medicalese” and intended for health professionals.
Drug Safety Communications. These include Public Health Advisories and other updated drug safety alerts.
Boxed warning. Often called a black box warning, this information appears at the beginning of the package insert and is intended to call attention to serious or life-threatening side effects. That’s what was added to the package insert for febuxostat.
Drug recalls. Although they may come at the request of the FDA, most drug recalls come from drug makers as a voluntary action. They may be permanent or temporary, depending on the problem.
Drug withdrawals. Even more rarely, evidence comes to light that convinces the FDA that the risk of taking a drug is simply too high when compared to its potential benefits. In these cases, the drug’s approval is essentially reversed, and the FDA requires the drug be taken off the market.
(You can find out more about how the FDA monitors the drug approval and post-approval process here.)

Why does this happen so often?

As I was beginning to write this post, yet another alert was released by the FDA. This time it was for tofacitinib (Xeljanz), a medication approved in 2012 to treat rheumatoid arthritis (RA). A higher than expected rate of blood clots in the lungs and death was found among the drug’s users. Some important caveats are worth noting, though: the trial was required by the FDA; it enrolled people with RA who were 50 and older and had at least one cardiovascular risk factor; the dose was 20 mg/day, roughly twice the currently approved dose for RA. (However, this dose is approved for people with ulcerative colitis.)

Why aren’t more of these problems detected before drugs are approved?

There are a number of reasons, but the biggest one has to do with the difference between clinical trials required prior to a drug’s approval and real world usage. A trial may exclude people with heart disease, or who are elderly, or may include only men or only women — but once the drug is approved, men and women, people with heart disease, and older individuals may start taking the medication. New problems may emerge in this expanded group of people that weren’t detected before.

In addition, there’s a numbers issue. Clinical trials may include hundreds or even thousands of study subjects, but to detect a small risk it may take tens of thousands of individuals, or even more. For these reasons, post-marketing surveillance plays a major role in ensuring the safety of medications approved by the FDA.

While the high rates of alerts and warnings may make it seem like the FDA is doing a lousy job of making sure drugs are safe before approving them, there’s another way to look at this. The high rate of alerts and warnings could mean that the post-approval monitoring is working to detect previously underappreciated problems and to publicize them.

Here’s where you come in

If you develop a side effect from a medication you’re taking, let your doctor know. You may need to stop taking the drug to avoid more trouble. But you can also report your experience to the FDA’s MedWatch Safety Information and Adverse Event Reporting Program (here or at 800-332-1088). You could be helping to identify an important and previously unrecognized problem with the medication.

While new drugs can truly be lifesaving, sometimes the latest breakthrough drug turns out to be worse than older treatments or the disease itself. Despite the years of research required to get a drug approved, important risks can be missed. We have to rely on post-market surveillance to detect these risks. You can help.

[seacoaster]

On the federal mandates, GOP Governors performing and prostrating to their base, and ignoring what appears to be long-settled law (before Alito gets to it anyway) :

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... -mandates/

Vaccine mandates have arrived. And so, too, has opposition led by Republicans. Nineteen Republican governors spoke out against President Biden’s announcement Thursday that American workers in large businesses must be vaccinated or face weekly testing. Half a dozen GOP governors threatened to sue, alongside the Republican National Committee.

But the legal ground they have to stand on appears rather shaky, based on a century of Supreme Court precedent.

The crux of the debate is where one’s personal freedom lies in relation to the broader health and rights of the nation.

A century ago, in 1905, the Supreme Court was asked a similar question and sided with the vaccine mandates.

In 1905, at the height of a smallpox outbreak and at a time when infectious diseases were the No. 1 killer in America, the court considered whether Cambridge, Mass., could force people to get vaccinated for it. There was intense and passionate resistance to these vaccine mandates, with some people going so far as to burn their arm with nitric acid to make it look like they had smallpox, which left a scar, reports the New York Times.

A local pastor, Henning Jacobson, resisted, claiming and his son had bad reactions to earlier vaccines. He sued Cambridge and argued that “compulsion to introduce disease into a healthy system is a violation of liberty” and that being forced to take the vaccine violated his 14th Amendment rights, which says that no state shall “State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property.”

That was a relatively easy no for the court. In a 7-2 ruling in Jacobson vs. Massachusetts, it decided that jurisdictions do have the right to require people to get vaccinated. Back then, the government was much more forceful about it, knocking down people’s doors to get them vaccinated, the New York Times says.

Justice John Marshall Harlan wrote, rather presciently for today’s pandemic, that: “upon the principle of self-defense, of paramount necessity, a community has the right to protect itself against an epidemic of disease which threatens the safety of its members.”

He hit at this core idea among vaccine-mandate-skeptics that personal liberty must come above all else. Liberty, he write, is not “an absolute right in each person to be, in all times and in all circumstances, wholly free from restraint.”

But even as the justices expounded on where the lines of civil liberty are drawn, they didn’t make broad or sweeping determinations about vaccine mandates. It was specific to this Cambridge case.

An anti-vaccination league (not just anti-vaccine-mandate) got started up a few years after that, writes Nicholas Mosvick at the National Constitution Center. And over the years, the Jacobson case got rechallenged and re-upheld. The Supreme Court has generally leaned to the side of giving the government authority to protect public health.

“Laws that restrict … liberty rights need only be ‘rationally related’ to any ‘legitimate state interest,’ and the Court continues to accept almost any plausible reason as justification,” three scholars with the state of Massachusetts wrote in 2005, summarizing the court’s various other rulings on this.

The American Civil Liberties Union recently raised another Supreme Court case for people who say they won’t get vaccinated on religious grounds: The 1944 case Prince vs. Massachusetts, where the court decided a Jehovah’s Witness could continue to employ her child on the street to sell literature.

But the justices put boundaries on religious freedom, writing: “The right to practice religion freely does not include liberty to expose the community or the child to communicable disease or the latter to ill health or death.’”

Today, arguably more modern laws and institutions apply to vaccine mandates. The Labor Department’s Occupational Safety and Health Administration handles workplace safety, and it has the legal authority to mandate vaccines to keep workers safe, says Barbara McQuade, a former U.S. attorney in the Obama and Trump administrations now at University of Michigan Law School. “OSHA’s mission is to ensure safe and healthy working conditions by setting and enforcing workplace standards for private employers,” she said.

That’s not to say what Biden is mandating is completely normal. A former OSHA official under the Obama administration said to my colleagues at The Post that the agency decided against mandating a hepatitis B vaccine for workers who regularly come into contact with blood.

The Biden administration is also offering an out to vaccine skeptics: Face weekly testing if you don’t want to get vaccinated. McQuade said she thinks the administration has the authority to mandate vaccines, period. The testing alternative, she said, “strikes me as a way to make the initiative more politically palatable.”

It’s a fair policy question of whether, in a capitalist society, businesses should be free to make their own decisions that pertain to the health of their employees and customers. “That’s really a free-enterprise decision that should be made by companies, and not the government,” Rick Murray, chairman of the government affairs committee at the Arizona Small Business Association, told my colleagues at The Post.

But now that the government has decided it’s time to force workers to get vaccinated, there doesn’t seem to be much legal ground skeptics have to stand on to say no."

[jhu72]

because we said so. Why do you fear finding facts? Facts..........fully vaccinated people are being hospilalized......oops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtFapXG1zbo

... THIS IS COSMICALLY DUMB!! Of course fully vaccinated people are catching COVID and being hospitalized in some cases. SO WHAT? It was always going to be this way. Nearly every other vaccine we have ever developed has breakthroughs. It is pure statistics. You know how you tell when we have this thing under control, 90% of your cases in hospitals are fully vaccinated! The evidence is in, the experiment has been done, those fully vaccinated have a significantly smaller chance of being infected than the unvaccinated, same goes for hospitalization.

There is NO OOPS!

of course......so what .......

This is the messaging ? yikes.



and , once again, you are ignoring the covid survivors.......and their antibodies.....


redundent to call me dumb? Yet another personal attack.

More lists....let us know who is smart and knows everything. Enjoy the day, it started out with insulting someone.......let that continue.
I think I will kill myself, with all this worldwide love.

COVID survivors do gain a degree of immunity, 600,000 people have died in the US paying for your survivor immunity. More are paying every day. And COVID survivors are known to get re-infected, and in some cases end up in the hospital -- but this is not an OOPS, right.

Please, the average age of the dead is 75. And 80% were obese. ALL had medical issues. Had one foot out the door, anyway. This has been covered.

Do you think I choose to get covid?

Oh.....please provide the actual numbers of covid survivors that got reinfected, and in the hospital. Prove this statement to be true. No media links, just real scienctists.

See you next time.....as you won't.

1) Your average age of death argument doesn't truly represent the situation. Those under 70 have been producing the majority of cases for some time and the numbers show those in the the younger cohorts are dying at increased rates while those vaccinated and over 70 are less likely to be infected, hospitalized and die, today and as we move into the future the average age is moving lower.

2) You want a good study of the unvaccinated being re-infected, the best I have seen is a Danish study conducted in 2020 and publish in March 2021. Their results show unvaccinated people only have an ~80% protection against re-infection. The study also shows a re-infection rate of 5.6 per 100,000.

The US breakthrough rate varies widely from state to state. In high vaccination rate states, the number ranges from 5 to 10. It is much worse in states with low vaccination rates - it should be obvious why. The Danish study re-infection rate number is a lower limit based on factors they did not consider (like false negatives in PCR testing, COVID infections after wave 1 and prior to wave 2, and being a pre-delta study, all of this pushes their number higher). The real number is probably closer to 10. In any case there is insufficient analysis to claim one case produces a lower rate than the other.

3) There is more to immunity and fighting a virus than anti-bodies. You have to consider the two types of T cells and the B cells as well.

Danish Study.

[DMac]

Good to hear they will be studying this.

My wife experienced some odd side effects after the Pfizer. Heard a few anecdotal stories of others as well.

https://covid19.nih.gov/news-and-storie ... rual-cycle

... I assume these passed after a period of time?

No. Been weird and unpredictable since March.

... interesting.

This is the reason many are leery of getting the shot. They're quickly labeled anti vaxers or conspiracy theorists but that's not necessarily the case at all. There are still a lot of unknowns here and time will tell whether there was anything to be concerned about or not, but as of right now we don't know that.
Sincerely hope all turns out well, kram...and for everyone else too.

[MDlaxfan76]

because we said so. Why do you fear finding facts? Facts..........fully vaccinated people are being hospilalized......oops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtFapXG1zbo

... THIS IS COSMICALLY DUMB!! Of course fully vaccinated people are catching COVID and being hospitalized in some cases. SO WHAT? It was always going to be this way. Nearly every other vaccine we have ever developed has breakthroughs. It is pure statistics. You know how you tell when we have this thing under control, 90% of your cases in hospitals are fully vaccinated! The evidence is in, the experiment has been done, those fully vaccinated have a significantly smaller chance of being infected than the unvaccinated, same goes for hospitalization.

There is NO OOPS!

of course......so what .......

This is the messaging ? yikes.



and , once again, you are ignoring the covid survivors.......and their antibodies.....


redundent to call me dumb? Yet another personal attack.

More lists....let us know who is smart and knows everything. Enjoy the day, it started out with insulting someone.......let that continue.
I think I will kill myself, with all this worldwide love.

COVID survivors do gain a degree of immunity, 600,000 people have died in the US paying for your survivor immunity. More are paying every day. And COVID survivors are known to get re-infected, and in some cases end up in the hospital -- but this is not an OOPS, right.

Please, the average age of the dead is 75. And 80% were obese. ALL had medical issues. Had one foot out the door, anyway. This has been covered.

Do you think I choose to get covid?

Oh.....please provide the actual numbers of covid survivors that got reinfected, and in the hospital. Prove this statement to be true. No media links, just real scienctists.

See you next time.....as you won't.

1) Your average age of death argument doesn't truly represent the situation. Those under 70 have been producing the majority of cases for some time and the numbers show those in the the younger cohorts are dying at increased rates while those vaccinated and over 70 are less likely to be infected, hospitalized and die, today and as we move into the future the average age is moving lower.

2) You want a good study of the unvaccinated being re-infected, the best I have seen is a Danish study conducted in 2020 and publish in March 2021. Their results show unvaccinated people only have an ~80% protection against re-infection. The study also shows a re-infection rate of 5.6 per 100,000.

The US breakthrough rate varies widely from state to state. In high vaccination rate states, the number ranges from 5 to 10. It is much worse in states with low vaccination rates - it should be obvious why. The Danish study re-infection rate number is a lower limit based on factors they did not consider (like false negatives in PCR testing, COVID infections after wave 1 and prior to wave 2, and being a pre-delta study, all of this pushes their number higher). The real number is probably closer to 10. In any case there is insufficient analysis to claim one case produces a lower rate than the other.

3) There is more to immunity and fighting a virus than anti-bodies. You have to consider the two types of T cells and the B cells as well.

Danish Study.

This why I read these threads...every once in a while, someone writes a quite cogent and informative post.

Not a rant, a screed, a diatribe...just straight information rather than disinformation.

[kramerica.inc]

Was like clockwork before. Cycle has become very unpredictable and erratic. Short one mos. Very long the next. Varying levels of uhm…
She’s been to the ob and had her numbers checked. Hormones are in range. Dr. is unsure. Hasn’t subsided yet.
We know that coincidence is not causation. But the timing did coincide with the second shot and she said another girlfriend is having a similar thing that was similarly timed.

Thanks, and again, sorry for her troubles, and yours. I'll ask my daughter if she's had any reaction akin to this. The rest of our family got Moderna.

Thanks. The DR said she appears to be well, health-wise, but she said it's still disconcerting. She and her friend were both pfizer.

Most of the people I know are Moderna. Haven't heard anything negative about that one, aside from the tough reactions after the second shot.

Hope you and yours are healthy too. Stay well!