All things CoronaVirus

[Farfromgeneva]

Only egomaniacs and unintelligent people lean into confirmation bias.

We know, right!

TLD is the master of it.

Meanwhile, you telling me that your antibodies are better than mine?

more hate, more division.

real science says, yeah, covid survivors really don't need a vaccine. Like putting your tshirt up to catch the wind, sure, it helps drive that sailboat faster. The natural immunity is the spinaker driving the covid train, your tini tini vacc helps the same as the t shirt.

unless, of course, its a trump 2024,t shirt.

Who said my antibodies are better than yours? That’s you lying and making things up now.

I see more hate out of you than the collective of everyone else here. Calling everyone names consistently, calling everyone hypocrites and liars.

You, friend, have taken the playa haters ball crown for a while now.

She looks like she owes through a duck hole in her underwear!

Your coat looks like it was made from your mother’s pubic hair

Now excuse me while I put some new water in Buck Nasty’s mommas dish.

Mr. White Chocolate should have made an appearance in that skit….watched the Rick James Documentary last night. He was supposed to be at Sharon Tate’s place the night of the Manson murders. Didn’t go because he was tired

Imagine if Tarantino used Rock James to thwart the killers instead of Brad Pitt in that movie

I’m Rick James b*tch!…… saw Prince open for him when I was in high school. It was a great concert. Ricked smoked a lot of weed on stage!

Forget James I want to know about the greatest stick man ever Prince.

Saw Cypress Hill as a Soph in HS at suny binghamton and their hype guys were tossing some bags into the crowd like someone on a Halloween float throwing candy out.

I have been a big Prince fan since his very first LP. His best work was probably his B-sides. His first album is a bonafide masterpiece. Rick James stole his keyboards. They had a running feud.

I recall once or twice going to a club that would have “DJ battles” in the mid 2000s while living in DC, K street I think ear where it bends around the river. Distinctly recall a Michael vs Prince one. At the time I was for Michael...

[Typical Lax Dad]

What’s the odds we get to fall ball with campuses open?

Faux question, send it over to the Div. I lacrosse thread.

Certainly, you will poo poo all over anyone who should attend these "fall ball " events.

remember, stay home, stay safe. you are concerned about the variants. you gonna watch from the basement, as always?

So dumb. He’s going to a big ten football game this fall. ASSume

Absolutely. Been planning on it for a year. Should be a good game. Won’t frequent any bars or restaurants but being vaccinated, being outside and wearing a good mask lowers my risk. Hope to make two or three fall lacrosse events also. All outside.

[tech37]

Believe It: A Top Old School Journalist Stands Up for Ivermectin and Free Speech

https://rescue.substack.com/p/believe-i ... journalist

]thanks tech. the state of the discussion on therapeutics writ large continues to fascinate.

thanks tech?
There's a 45 year old editor who feels disinformation is 'free speech' and we're glad about that?

Guess what state the good editor is in???

You must have been referring to this "disinformation."

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1 ... gr%5Etweet

hadn't seen Maddow's tweet (I don't go on Twitter much as it is, much less follow any of these sorts, whether Maddow, Greenwald or anyone else). If she's got a story wrong, she should correct it.

However....Promoting snake oil is much more dangerous than spreading news (incorrectly) that there's a raft of snake oil poisonings at a specific place. But still wrong and should be corrected.

So that i understand your type of thinking, anything not approved for use against Covid, by FDA, CDC, WHO, etc., etc. is considered "snake oil"?

Anything?
Sure, whether it's bleach or HCQ or ivermectin, none of it should be "promoted" or "claimed" as a cure for Covid until it's actually been proven as such by credible institutions and scientists.
You do understand that IVM has been inaccurately linked to bleach/HCQ/Trump as a political cudgel for the left and/or any virtue signaling exploiters?

"Credible"? Defined by whom?... the mainstream left-leaning media?, the Biden admin?, you?

You can try to keep yourself healthy and immune system stronger a whole range of perfectly appropriate ways, but spreading false hope of a miracle cure is indeed quite dangerous in the ways I've previously described, including being a drag on the public choosing to do things that actually do work, like getting vaccinated and various aspects of social distancing.
If IVM had been accurately and truthfully explained, the exploiters could not have created the "either/or" situation that you're belaboring. Vaccines and therapeutics work together but for different situations, not to the exclusion of the other.

Ivermectin is not "snake oil" when applied to de-worming. It has valid uses.
Bleach is good for cleaning too. Valid use.
"de-worming" is both pejorative and a jerk's remark. IVM's labeled use for humans is an anti-parasitic (of course you know that).

But when claimed to be a cure for Covid, these are "snake oil" claims.
Please cite where someone has christened IVM, a Covid "cure".

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lani ... 2/fulltext

Another study.

[Farfromgeneva]

What’s the odds we get to fall ball with campuses open?

Faux question, send it over to the Div. I lacrosse thread.

Certainly, you will poo poo all over anyone who should attend these "fall ball " events.

remember, stay home, stay safe. you are concerned about the variants. you gonna watch from the basement, as always?

So dumb. He’s going to a big ten football game this fall. ASSume

Absolutely. Been planning on it for a year. Should be a good game. Won’t frequent any bars or restaurants but being vaccinated, being outside and wearing a good mask lowers my risk. Hope to make two or three fall lacrosse events also. All outside.

Go to a Hobart game. We need more fans. SHU is just up the road from you

[RedFromMI]

Ivermectin usage for COVID-19 is not recommended by most of the medical establishment simply because there is not enough evidence that it actually works better than a placebo. There are SOME studies, AFAIK mostly flawed in some way, that show a positive effect, but others which do not.

So if the risk of using (and an antiparasitic agent definitely has risks) is greater than the benefit, why choose it?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Believe It: A Top Old School Journalist Stands Up for Ivermectin and Free Speech

https://rescue.substack.com/p/believe-i ... journalist

]thanks tech. the state of the discussion on therapeutics writ large continues to fascinate.

thanks tech?
There's a 45 year old editor who feels disinformation is 'free speech' and we're glad about that?

Guess what state the good editor is in???

You must have been referring to this "disinformation."

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1 ... gr%5Etweet

hadn't seen Maddow's tweet (I don't go on Twitter much as it is, much less follow any of these sorts, whether Maddow, Greenwald or anyone else). If she's got a story wrong, she should correct it.

However....Promoting snake oil is much more dangerous than spreading news (incorrectly) that there's a raft of snake oil poisonings at a specific place. But still wrong and should be corrected.

So that i understand your type of thinking, anything not approved for use against Covid, by FDA, CDC, WHO, etc., etc. is considered "snake oil"?

Anything?
Sure, whether it's bleach or HCQ or ivermectin, none of it should be "promoted" or "claimed" as a cure for Covid until it's actually been proven as such by credible institutions and scientists.
You do understand that IVM has been inaccurately linked to bleach/HCQ/Trump as a political cudgel for the left and/or any virtue signaling exploiters?

"Credible"? Defined by whom?... the mainstream left-leaning media?, the Biden admin?, you?

You can try to keep yourself healthy and immune system stronger a whole range of perfectly appropriate ways, but spreading false hope of a miracle cure is indeed quite dangerous in the ways I've previously described, including being a drag on the public choosing to do things that actually do work, like getting vaccinated and various aspects of social distancing.
If IVM had been accurately and truthfully explained, the exploiters could not have created the "either/or" situation that you're belaboring. Vaccines and therapeutics work together but for different situations, not to the exclusion of the other.

Ivermectin is not "snake oil" when applied to de-worming. It has valid uses.
Bleach is good for cleaning too. Valid use.
"de-worming" is both pejorative and a jerk's remark. IVM's labeled use for humans is an anti-parasitic (of course you know that).

But when claimed to be a cure for Covid, these are "snake oil" claims.
Please cite where someone has christened IVM, a Covid "cure".

Good old Dr. Oz. He said Covid-19 came from two different species of animals having sex and creating an offspring.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Ivermectin usage for COVID-19 is not recommended by most of the medical establishment simply because there is not enough evidence that it actually works better than a placebo. There are SOME studies, AFAIK mostly flawed in some way, that show a positive effect, but others which do not.

So if the risk of using (and an antiparasitic agent definitely has risks) is greater than the benefit, why choose it?

I mentioned it may not be anymore effective than placebo a couple of weeks ago. But a guy took it and got better so it works….

[Typical Lax Dad]

What’s the odds we get to fall ball with campuses open?

Faux question, send it over to the Div. I lacrosse thread.

Certainly, you will poo poo all over anyone who should attend these "fall ball " events.

remember, stay home, stay safe. you are concerned about the variants. you gonna watch from the basement, as always?

So dumb. He’s going to a big ten football game this fall. ASSume

Absolutely. Been planning on it for a year. Should be a good game. Won’t frequent any bars or restaurants but being vaccinated, being outside and wearing a good mask lowers my risk. Hope to make two or three fall lacrosse events also. All outside.

Go to a Hobart game. We need more fans. SHU is just up the road from you

Ran into the d-coordinator a couple of weeks ago. I knew a couple of his players and some kids he coached against. I try to catch at least one SHU game a year.

[RedFromMI]

Ivermectin usage for COVID-19 is not recommended by most of the medical establishment simply because there is not enough evidence that it actually works better than a placebo. There are SOME studies, AFAIK mostly flawed in some way, that show a positive effect, but others which do not.

So if the risk of using (and an antiparasitic agent definitely has risks) is greater than the benefit, why choose it?

I mentioned it may not be anymore effective than placebo a couple of weeks ago. But a guy took it and got better so it works….

It is almost always a good idea to look really hard at any claim bases on testimonials - you can always find someone that makes claims like this but this in no way actually means (in this case) that IVM was responsible for any particular guy (or gal) getting better...

And that is why medical decisions need to be driven more by the underlying science...

[Farfromgeneva]

What’s the odds we get to fall ball with campuses open?

Faux question, send it over to the Div. I lacrosse thread.

Certainly, you will poo poo all over anyone who should attend these "fall ball " events.

remember, stay home, stay safe. you are concerned about the variants. you gonna watch from the basement, as always?

So dumb. He’s going to a big ten football game this fall. ASSume

Absolutely. Been planning on it for a year. Should be a good game. Won’t frequent any bars or restaurants but being vaccinated, being outside and wearing a good mask lowers my risk. Hope to make two or three fall lacrosse events also. All outside.

Go to a Hobart game. We need more fans. SHU is just up the road from you

Ran into the d-coordinator a couple of weeks ago. I knew a couple of his players and some kids he coached against. I try to catch at least one SHU game a year.

Turri? Or prior one who’s at Pton now (Hirsch)? Or you mean SHU d coordinator?

[Farfromgeneva]

What’s the odds we get to fall ball with campuses open?

Faux question, send it over to the Div. I lacrosse thread.

Certainly, you will poo poo all over anyone who should attend these "fall ball " events.

remember, stay home, stay safe. you are concerned about the variants. you gonna watch from the basement, as always?

So dumb. He’s going to a big ten football game this fall. ASSume

Absolutely. Been planning on it for a year. Should be a good game. Won’t frequent any bars or restaurants but being vaccinated, being outside and wearing a good mask lowers my risk. Hope to make two or three fall lacrosse events also. All outside.

Go to a Hobart game. We need more fans. SHU is just up the road from you

Ran into the d-coordinator a couple of weeks ago. I knew a couple of his players and some kids he coached against. I try to catch at least one SHU game a year.

Not sure if it’s in Geneva or CT this year, SHU had to cancel last year.

https://hwsathletics.com/news/2021/3/27 ... poned.aspx

Never mind forgot we made it up end of season that should’ve been a signal of the Bryant game to come

[Typical Lax Dad]

What’s the odds we get to fall ball with campuses open?

Faux question, send it over to the Div. I lacrosse thread.

Certainly, you will poo poo all over anyone who should attend these "fall ball " events.

remember, stay home, stay safe. you are concerned about the variants. you gonna watch from the basement, as always?

So dumb. He’s going to a big ten football game this fall. ASSume

Absolutely. Been planning on it for a year. Should be a good game. Won’t frequent any bars or restaurants but being vaccinated, being outside and wearing a good mask lowers my risk. Hope to make two or three fall lacrosse events also. All outside.

Go to a Hobart game. We need more fans. SHU is just up the road from you

Ran into the d-coordinator a couple of weeks ago. I knew a couple of his players and some kids he coached against. I try to catch at least one SHU game a year.

Turri? Or prior one who’s at Pton now (Hirsch)? Or you mean SHU d coordinator?

SHU coordinator.

[runrussellrun]

Ivermectin usage for COVID-19 is not recommended by most of the medical establishment simply because there is not enough evidence that it actually works better than a placebo. There are SOME studies, AFAIK mostly flawed in some way, that show a positive effect, but others which do not.

So if the risk of using (and an antiparasitic agent definitely has risks) is greater than the benefit, why choose it?

Be specific, what evidence do you need?

Factually, there wasn't enough evidence to claim a vaccine, of any make, works.

What is wrong with you? People should try anything, to stay alive.

Bashing those that take every effort are bad people? Really, this is what we have become?

Nothing all of TLD's links & studies. Same source. CNN

and some contrite swipes at nonsense, these reports that , umm, support natural immunity for covid survivors is awesome, but get the vaxx, anyway, because :

A. reinfection is rare. extremely rare.

B. what evidence is there that the vaccine works like a placebo ?

[Farfromgeneva]

Ivermectin usage for COVID-19 is not recommended by most of the medical establishment simply because there is not enough evidence that it actually works better than a placebo. There are SOME studies, AFAIK mostly flawed in some way, that show a positive effect, but others which do not.

So if the risk of using (and an antiparasitic agent definitely has risks) is greater than the benefit, why choose it?

Be specific, what evidence do you need?

Factually, there wasn't enough evidence to claim a vaccine, of any make, works.

What is wrong with you? People should try anything, to stay alive.

Bashing those that take every effort are bad people? Really, this is what we have become?

Nothing all of TLD's links & studies. Same source. CNN

and some contrite swipes at nonsense, these reports that , umm, support natural immunity for covid survivors is awesome, but get the vaxx, anyway, because :

A. reinfection is rare. extremely rare.

B. what evidence is there that the vaccine works like a placebo ?

What is wrong with YOU that you would write that sentence yourself?

[RedFromMI]

Ivermectin usage for COVID-19 is not recommended by most of the medical establishment simply because there is not enough evidence that it actually works better than a placebo. There are SOME studies, AFAIK mostly flawed in some way, that show a positive effect, but others which do not.

So if the risk of using (and an antiparasitic agent definitely has risks) is greater than the benefit, why choose it?

Be specific, what evidence do you need?
Much more than currently exists - good double blind studies with well designed controls would be a start.
Factually, there wasn't enough evidence to claim a vaccine, of any make, works.
BS. And there is plenty of evidence that the COVID-19 vaccine works well...
What is wrong with you? People should try anything, to stay alive.
They should try sensible things to stay alive. Remember Laetrile?
Bashing those that take every effort are bad people? Really, this is what we have become?
Not bad people, but people who take advice from the wrong sources.
Nothing all of TLD's links & studies. Same source. CNN
Not sure of what this means...
and some contrite swipes at nonsense, these reports that , umm, support natural immunity for covid survivors is awesome, but get the vaxx, anyway, because :

A. reinfection is rare. extremely rare.
On this short time scale, yes.
B. what evidence is there that the vaccine works like a placebo ?
None - in order to be approved, vaccines must work MUCH better than a placebo.

[runrussellrun]

Ivermectin usage for COVID-19 is not recommended by most of the medical establishment simply because there is not enough evidence that it actually works better than a placebo. There are SOME studies, AFAIK mostly flawed in some way, that show a positive effect, but others which do not.

So if the risk of using (and an antiparasitic agent definitely has risks) is greater than the benefit, why choose it?

Be specific, what evidence do you need?
Much more than currently exists - good double blind studies with well designed controls would be a start.
Factually, there wasn't enough evidence to claim a vaccine, of any make, works.
BS. And there is plenty of evidence that the COVID-19 vaccine works well...
What is wrong with you? People should try anything, to stay alive.
They should try sensible things to stay alive. Remember Laetrile?
Bashing those that take every effort are bad people? Really, this is what we have become?
Not bad people, but people who take advice from the wrong sources.
Nothing all of TLD's links & studies. Same source. CNN
Not sure of what this means...
and some contrite swipes at nonsense, these reports that , umm, support natural immunity for covid survivors is awesome, but get the vaxx, anyway, because :

A. reinfection is rare. extremely rare.
On this short time scale, yes.
B. what evidence is there that the vaccine works like a placebo ?
None - in order to be approved, vaccines must work MUCH better than a placebo.

People take advice from "wrong sources" ?

re infection is rare.....but force covid survivors to take a needle, because you listen to the right source?

The FACT that you even place value on right, or wrong, when it comes to science....is strange.

natural immunity is the gold standard. Anyone, based on the science, feels that covid survivors are threat to the community, un vaxxed, is clearly not listening to sources of any kind.

NOPE.....only listen to infotainment. fear porn

[wgdsr]

Ivermectin usage for COVID-19 is not recommended by most of the medical establishment simply because there is not enough evidence that it actually works better than a placebo. There are SOME studies, AFAIK mostly flawed in some way, that show a positive effect, but others which do not.

So if the risk of using (and an antiparasitic agent definitely has risks) is greater than the benefit, why choose it?

it is being used in africa. and in latin america. and in india. probably a good deal others. based on what, i'm not rabbit holing that.
the fcccc? doc posted several days ago listed a good many studies that aren't randomized, double blinded, mostly from latin america. a number of studies were large, with some outsized (50-75%) results.

the principle trial double blind/randomized should be robust and have results i think? in months, not years. also an arm for favipiravir. they're setting a 14 day limit from test/symptoms and a baseline for symptoms/at risk. personally if we're trying out these anti-inflammatories, anti-virals for early treatment options i wish they'd do something much closer to symptoms/test and all manner of candidates. can't have everything. many ivm treatment studies or protocols being used have more of a whole kit of prescribed treatments, though i have no idea if they're supposed to work in concert to amplify any possible gain.
any event, if there is any outsized gain for ivm or favipiravir "early", it should? show with the first larger trial.

given we've not found an effective early/anti-viral yet proven to our standards, it's like cov-2 has gotten the better of those mechanisms. slippery.

the market is hopping for ivm. supposedly ~$ 0.12 to make in india at least, and going for $500-800 in some countries (couple bucks in bangladesh). and in 2020, india production jumped 4 1/2 fold. wonder what 2021 will be.
https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 005_1.html
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 147v1.full

[Farfromgeneva]

Ivermectin usage for COVID-19 is not recommended by most of the medical establishment simply because there is not enough evidence that it actually works better than a placebo. There are SOME studies, AFAIK mostly flawed in some way, that show a positive effect, but others which do not.

So if the risk of using (and an antiparasitic agent definitely has risks) is greater than the benefit, why choose it?

it is being used in africa. and in latin america. and in india. probably a good deal others. based on what, i'm not rabbit holing that.
the fcccc? doc posted several days ago listed a good many studies that aren't randomized, double blinded, mostly from latin america. a number of studies were large, with some outsized (50-75%) results.

the principle trial double blind/randomized should be robust and have results i think? in months, not years. also an arm for favipiravir. they're setting a 14 day limit from test/symptoms and a baseline for symptoms/at risk. personally if we're trying out these anti-inflammatories, anti-virals for early treatment options i wish they'd do something much closer to symptoms/test and all manner of candidates. can't have everything. many ivm treatment studies or protocols being used have more of a whole kit of prescribed treatments, though i have no idea if they're supposed to work in concert to amplify any possible gain.
any event, if there is any outsized gain for ivm or favipiravir "early", it should? show with the first larger trial.

given we've not found an effective early/anti-viral yet proven to our standards, it's like cov-2 has gotten the better of those mechanisms. slippery.

the market is hopping for ivm. supposedly ~$ 0.12 to make in india at least, and going for $500-800 in some countries (couple bucks in bangladesh). and in 2020, india production jumped 4 1/2 fold. wonder what 2021 will be.
https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 005_1.html
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 147v1.full

Not to defend or justify but production cost of all Medication that doesn’t include R&D expenses is just not useful. I prefer the European model of capitalizing R and expensing D but in the US we put both into a capital expenditure and the intangible asset bucket to be amortized over the life the the drug.

[wgdsr]

Ivermectin usage for COVID-19 is not recommended by most of the medical establishment simply because there is not enough evidence that it actually works better than a placebo. There are SOME studies, AFAIK mostly flawed in some way, that show a positive effect, but others which do not.

So if the risk of using (and an antiparasitic agent definitely has risks) is greater than the benefit, why choose it?

it is being used in africa. and in latin america. and in india. probably a good deal others. based on what, i'm not rabbit holing that.
the fcccc? doc posted several days ago listed a good many studies that aren't randomized, double blinded, mostly from latin america. a number of studies were large, with some outsized (50-75%) results.

the principle trial double blind/randomized should be robust and have results i think? in months, not years. also an arm for favipiravir. they're setting a 14 day limit from test/symptoms and a baseline for symptoms/at risk. personally if we're trying out these anti-inflammatories, anti-virals for early treatment options i wish they'd do something much closer to symptoms/test and all manner of candidates. can't have everything. many ivm treatment studies or protocols being used have more of a whole kit of prescribed treatments, though i have no idea if they're supposed to work in concert to amplify any possible gain.
any event, if there is any outsized gain for ivm or favipiravir "early", it should? show with the first larger trial.

given we've not found an effective early/anti-viral yet proven to our standards, it's like cov-2 has gotten the better of those mechanisms. slippery.

the market is hopping for ivm. supposedly ~$ 0.12 to make in india at least, and going for $500-800 in some countries (couple bucks in bangladesh). and in 2020, india production jumped 4 1/2 fold. wonder what 2021 will be.
https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 005_1.html
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 147v1.full

Not to defend or justify but production cost of all Medication that doesn’t include R&D expenses is just not useful. I prefer the European model of capitalizing R and expensing D but in the US we put both into a capital expenditure and the intangible asset bucket to be amortized over the life the the drug.

ya, i'm not sure how those treatment courses were priced overseas. it is a 40 year old drug of course now in generic, and if you can get an rx it looks like $10-25 stateside:
https://www.webmd.com/rx/drug-prices/ivermectin