Navy 2022

[Farfromgeneva]

Not going to claim I have all the answers, but there is far more going on than carrying a dozen extra players, than they did 15 years ago.

Maybe Dip Dunk should go back through the years this is not a new thing. in 2010 they were in the low 60s, even in 2005 50.....so they carry an extra dozen, big deal. they all do not travel, the old days of sending guys out with injury, separated shoulders, concussions protocol, etc. Heavily respected scout team, attrition, and yes (only a handful of years ago) at least half a dozen bounced. The class of 20' ended up with only 5 or 6 lax players out of 15 or so recruits.

Additionally, the new staff are respecting the recruits of the last staff. Also, a void in interest over the last 10 years which did not support NAAA and FONL. It is not just one thing,

Less about Amplo to me than is this an appropriate use of limited vacancies to the academy. Is the marginal ten guys better than the last ten non athletes not accepted and does that really make sense despite some argument for the need for depth like this.

Those are all scenarios only insiders with brass would be privy too, but I am sure it helps balance the slow recruiting on the streets in to the military. My nephew is an AF recruiter in Florida, in short.....he said it is tough out there, very tough. We could argue the same thing (roster size) for football. Who in the hell needs +110 players, and over 20+ coaches for a fb team that runs the same damned schemes over the past 20 years.

Sure but it’s a lacrosse board here. You know I never get off topic YA!

But yes and stuffing the pro schools with athletes is a joke as well. It’s tax dollars so nobody gets to play the “you didn’t do this so you can’t talk” nonsense. That how you get zero accountability and bad outcomes.

[old salt]

Not going to claim I have all the answers, but there is far more going on than carrying a dozen extra players, than they did 15 years ago.

Maybe Dip Dunk should go back through the years this is not a new thing. in 2010 they were in the low 60s, even in 2005 50.....so they carry an extra dozen, big deal. they all do not travel, the old days of sending guys out with injury, separated shoulders, concussions protocol, etc. Heavily respected scout team, attrition, and yes (only a handful of years ago) at least half a dozen bounced. The class of 20' ended up with only 5 or 6 lax players out of 15 or so recruits.

Additionally, the new staff are respecting the recruits of the last staff. Also, a void in interest over the last 10 years which did not support NAAA and FONL. It is not just one thing,

Less about Amplo to me than is this an appropriate use of limited vacancies to the academy. Is the marginal ten guys better than the last ten non athletes not accepted and does that really make sense despite some argument for the need for depth like this.

Those are all scenarios only insiders with brass would be privy too, but I am sure it helps balance the slow recruiting on the streets in to the military. My nephew is an AF recruiter in Florida, in short.....he said it is tough out there, very tough. We could argue the same thing (roster size) for football. Who in the hell needs +110 players, and over 20+ coaches for a fb team that runs the same damned schemes over the past 20 years.

Athletics are valued greatly at the service academies, probably more so than other colleges, because of the post grad mission.
How many colleges have 33 varsity sports + numerous club teams (e.g. 3 hockey teams + 1 club lax team) ?

When I checked in a recent year, the FB roster was 150 with an additional Sprint FB roster.

[Farfromgeneva]

Not going to claim I have all the answers, but there is far more going on than carrying a dozen extra players, than they did 15 years ago.

Maybe Dip Dunk should go back through the years this is not a new thing. in 2010 they were in the low 60s, even in 2005 50.....so they carry an extra dozen, big deal. they all do not travel, the old days of sending guys out with injury, separated shoulders, concussions protocol, etc. Heavily respected scout team, attrition, and yes (only a handful of years ago) at least half a dozen bounced. The class of 20' ended up with only 5 or 6 lax players out of 15 or so recruits.

Additionally, the new staff are respecting the recruits of the last staff. Also, a void in interest over the last 10 years which did not support NAAA and FONL. It is not just one thing,

Less about Amplo to me than is this an appropriate use of limited vacancies to the academy. Is the marginal ten guys better than the last ten non athletes not accepted and does that really make sense despite some argument for the need for depth like this.

Those are all scenarios only insiders with brass would be privy too, but I am sure it helps balance the slow recruiting on the streets in to the military. My nephew is an AF recruiter in Florida, in short.....he said it is tough out there, very tough. We could argue the same thing (roster size) for football. Who in the hell needs +110 players, and over 20+ coaches for a fb team that runs the same damned schemes over the past 20 years.

Athletics are valued greatly at the service academies, probably more so than other colleges, because of the post grad mission.
How many colleges have 33 varsity sports + numerous club teams (e.g. 3 hockey teams + 1 club lax team) ?

When I checked in a recent year, the FB roster was 150 with an additional Sprint FB roster.

Yes but plenty (most?) regular admits played team sports through HS. Are they less prepared after four years if they don’t play at that level because that’s the implication of your comment.

Perhaps that’s why they had no room for an individual dishonest kid like Cawtthorne? Not a team player but rather a self absorbed individualist?

[old salt]

Not going to claim I have all the answers, but there is far more going on than carrying a dozen extra players, than they did 15 years ago.

Maybe Dip Dunk should go back through the years this is not a new thing. in 2010 they were in the low 60s, even in 2005 50.....so they carry an extra dozen, big deal. they all do not travel, the old days of sending guys out with injury, separated shoulders, concussions protocol, etc. Heavily respected scout team, attrition, and yes (only a handful of years ago) at least half a dozen bounced. The class of 20' ended up with only 5 or 6 lax players out of 15 or so recruits.

Additionally, the new staff are respecting the recruits of the last staff. Also, a void in interest over the last 10 years which did not support NAAA and FONL. It is not just one thing,

Less about Amplo to me than is this an appropriate use of limited vacancies to the academy. Is the marginal ten guys better than the last ten non athletes not accepted and does that really make sense despite some argument for the need for depth like this.

Those are all scenarios only insiders with brass would be privy too, but I am sure it helps balance the slow recruiting on the streets in to the military. My nephew is an AF recruiter in Florida, in short.....he said it is tough out there, very tough. We could argue the same thing (roster size) for football. Who in the hell needs +110 players, and over 20+ coaches for a fb team that runs the same damned schemes over the past 20 years.

Athletics are valued greatly at the service academies, probably more so than other colleges, because of the post grad mission.
How many colleges have 33 varsity sports + numerous club teams (e.g. 3 hockey teams + 1 club lax team) ?

When I checked in a recent year, the FB roster was 150 with an additional Sprint FB roster.

Yes but plenty (most?) regular admits played team sports through HS. Are they less prepared after four years if they don’t play at that level because that’s the implication of your comment.

Perhaps that’s why they had no room for an individual dishonest kid like Cawtthorne? Not a team player but rather a self absorbed individualist?

No implications. The military values athletes who excelled at team sports. It's not that complex. Who's Cawtthorne ?

[youthathletics]

Not going to claim I have all the answers, but there is far more going on than carrying a dozen extra players, than they did 15 years ago.

Maybe Dip Dunk should go back through the years this is not a new thing. in 2010 they were in the low 60s, even in 2005 50.....so they carry an extra dozen, big deal. they all do not travel, the old days of sending guys out with injury, separated shoulders, concussions protocol, etc. Heavily respected scout team, attrition, and yes (only a handful of years ago) at least half a dozen bounced. The class of 20' ended up with only 5 or 6 lax players out of 15 or so recruits.

Additionally, the new staff are respecting the recruits of the last staff. Also, a void in interest over the last 10 years which did not support NAAA and FONL. It is not just one thing,

Less about Amplo to me than is this an appropriate use of limited vacancies to the academy. Is the marginal ten guys better than the last ten non athletes not accepted and does that really make sense despite some argument for the need for depth like this.

Those are all scenarios only insiders with brass would be privy too, but I am sure it helps balance the slow recruiting on the streets in to the military. My nephew is an AF recruiter in Florida, in short.....he said it is tough out there, very tough. We could argue the same thing (roster size) for football. Who in the hell needs +110 players, and over 20+ coaches for a fb team that runs the same damned schemes over the past 20 years.

Athletics are valued greatly at the service academies, probably more so than other colleges, because of the post grad mission.
How many colleges have 33 varsity sports + numerous club teams (e.g. 3 hockey teams + 1 club lax team) ?

When I checked in a recent year, the FB roster was 150 with an additional Sprint FB roster.

Yes but plenty (most?) regular admits played team sports through HS. Are they less prepared after four years if they don’t play at that level because that’s the implication of your comment.

Perhaps that’s why they had no room for an individual dishonest kid like Cawtthorne? Not a team player but rather a self absorbed individualist?

No implications. The military values athletes who excelled at team sports. It's not that complex. Who's Cawtthorne ?

An upset man, that was mad he didn't cut the USNA cheese. https://www.citizen-times.com/story/new ... 350634001/

[Farfromgeneva]

Not going to claim I have all the answers, but there is far more going on than carrying a dozen extra players, than they did 15 years ago.

Maybe Dip Dunk should go back through the years this is not a new thing. in 2010 they were in the low 60s, even in 2005 50.....so they carry an extra dozen, big deal. they all do not travel, the old days of sending guys out with injury, separated shoulders, concussions protocol, etc. Heavily respected scout team, attrition, and yes (only a handful of years ago) at least half a dozen bounced. The class of 20' ended up with only 5 or 6 lax players out of 15 or so recruits.

Additionally, the new staff are respecting the recruits of the last staff. Also, a void in interest over the last 10 years which did not support NAAA and FONL. It is not just one thing,

Less about Amplo to me than is this an appropriate use of limited vacancies to the academy. Is the marginal ten guys better than the last ten non athletes not accepted and does that really make sense despite some argument for the need for depth like this.

Those are all scenarios only insiders with brass would be privy too, but I am sure it helps balance the slow recruiting on the streets in to the military. My nephew is an AF recruiter in Florida, in short.....he said it is tough out there, very tough. We could argue the same thing (roster size) for football. Who in the hell needs +110 players, and over 20+ coaches for a fb team that runs the same damned schemes over the past 20 years.

Athletics are valued greatly at the service academies, probably more so than other colleges, because of the post grad mission.
How many colleges have 33 varsity sports + numerous club teams (e.g. 3 hockey teams + 1 club lax team) ?

When I checked in a recent year, the FB roster was 150 with an additional Sprint FB roster.

Yes but plenty (most?) regular admits played team sports through HS. Are they less prepared after four years if they don’t play at that level because that’s the implication of your comment.

Perhaps that’s why they had no room for an individual dishonest kid like Cawtthorne? Not a team player but rather a self absorbed individualist?

No implications. The military values athletes who excelled at team sports. It's not that complex. Who's Cawtthorne ?

An upset man, that was mad he didn't cut the USNA cheese. https://www.citizen-times.com/story/new ... 350634001/

But co-opted the institution as part of his effort at success in life. Pretty ugly behavior.

[Dip&Dunk]

Not all of you but at least some don’t get it. I don’t care how far I have to go back to find roster sizes I believe meet the balance between excessive and correct for the the Naval Academy.

The USNA is not Duke/ND/anyone else. There is no valid reason I have ever heard why that many people need to be on the lacrosse roster at the Naval Academy.

I believe I am intimately familiar with the reasons for recruiting the types/numbers of people they do recruit having been on the Executive Steering Committee for USNA. (In my biased opinion, more influential than the Board of Visitors but that is another issue)

On average, I can honestly say I was more impressed and ranked higher the varsity athletes who reported to me in my 27 year career than non varsity athletes. This ranking initially came to me through the chain of command so it was not just my opinion.

There is no “slow recruiting” at the Naval Academy. They have the highest(lowest?) acceptance rate of the SA’s and are within points of Harvard which competes with Stanford for the most exclusivity (depending on your source).

In the big picture, this is all heifer dust though. I have no doubt these midshipmen will be fine officers. I am actually more concerned with putting out a great tailgater at UVA when Navy and VMI scrimmage next spring (as is planned at the moment obviously subject to change).

For two more years, Rah Va Mil. (Blood is thicker than grog)

[youthathletics]

Thanks.

You sum it up nicely and appear to answer your reason why those athletes get more of a nod. Navy ain’t Harvard or Stanford, and that’s because the Fleet has unique demands post graduation that Harvard and Stanford do not Additionally, the schools that have ROTC seem to provide plenty of top ranking brass in the fleet; which is also quite interesting.

[youthathletics]

Excited to see what comes of the team this season.

Some holes to fill....to name a handful: https://navysports.com/news/2021/5/13/m ... nners.aspx

Who will be the Captains this season? I’ll take a stab at it and pick 21 and 32.

Nick Cole, Jack Sweeney Selected as 2022 Men’s Lacrosse Captains
https://navysports.com/news/2021/9/7/me ... tains.aspx

[Dip&Dunk]

Well, the football experiment is not working. The LCS of quarterbacks.

[old salt]

Can the AAC fall apart fast enough to save Coach Ken ?

[Dip&Dunk]

OC fired yesterday (fb)….dumpster fire is not worth his not playing lax. He does not need to play spring ball to go 0/5 passing.

[youthathletics]

Yes....we were chatting about the firing last evening on another thread: viewtopic.php?f=290&t=3064

To your earlier point, having XA join lacrosse, on an already deep roster would seem silly, no? Seems like he picked his lane...or was it Ken that coerced that decision upon him.

In any event....firing IJ is a petty attempt (nicer than dick move) at laying blame...as if he forget how to coach the TO after 22 years. For some crazy reason the old guard just has their heels dug in on running the TO the same damned way they did the past 30 years.

From Wags: Ultimately, what we saw Saturday night was an admission by Niumatalolo and Jasper that this team cannot effectively execute triple-option offense. That does not bode well for the rest of this season since the triple-option has been Navy’s identity since former coach Paul Johnson re-installed the unique attack in 2002

From Ken: “We came in here knowing we had to stop the run and we weren’t able to do that. If you can’t stop the run against team like that, it’s almost impossible to stop them,” Niumatalolo said. “You have to be able to take away one thing. We really struggled tackling them on the perimeter.”

Offense and defense was hurting against a middle tiered AAC team in 2020 (SMU) as noted by Ken above. And it seemed inserting non TO plays with the QB worked....it just was not enough. Navy is stuck, stuck in the old ways of 'this is how we used to do it'.

[Farfromgeneva]

Yes....we were chatting about the firing last evening on another thread: viewtopic.php?f=290&t=3064

To your earlier point, having XA join lacrosse, on an already deep roster would seem silly, no? Seems like he picked his lane...or was it Ken that coerced that decision upon him.

In any event....firing IJ is a petty attempt (nicer than dick move) at laying blame...as if he forget how to coach the TO after 22 years. For some crazy reason the old guard just has their heels dug in on running the TO the same damned way they did the past 30 years.

From Wags: Ultimately, what we saw Saturday night was an admission by Niumatalolo and Jasper that this team cannot effectively execute triple-option offense. That does not bode well for the rest of this season since the triple-option has been Navy’s identity since former coach Paul Johnson re-installed the unique attack in 2002

From Ken: “We came in here knowing we had to stop the run and we weren’t able to do that. If you can’t stop the run against team like that, it’s almost impossible to stop them,” Niumatalolo said. “You have to be able to take away one thing. We really struggled tackling them on the perimeter.”

Offense and defense was hurting against a middle tiered AAC team in 2020 (SMU) as noted by Ken above. And it seemed inserting non TO plays with the QB worked....it just was not enough. Navy is stuck, stuck in the old ways of 'this is how we used to do it'.

Using my buddy Guilian Gary, an old buddy from upstate, as an example the football coaches are loathe to let them play a sport like lacrosse mainly because of weight maintenance. Pulled an old story from the B Sun, which how many times can the Editor miss the spelling of Ithaca?, that tells his story link below plus excerpt from within I’ll drop here. But short answer is I bet Ken DK’d his playing lax in the spring.

Initially, Gary dreamed of joining Maryland's men's lacrosse team. A high school All-American in the sport, he ran with Maryland's midfield second unit for several weeks. But just before the Terps' first scrimmage, Vanderlinden pulled the plug on that extracurricular activity, since conditioning drills had trimmed Gary's weight by 15 pounds.

A converted running back who passed on Syracuse, Wisconsin and Georgia Tech in choosing Maryland, Gary said he would be playing lacrosse if not for football. Growing up in Horseheads, the idea was to play as often as possible.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.baltim ... y,amp.html

[Dip&Dunk]

You all make good points.

Weight maintenance, maybe. They list him at 176 up from 165. 165 is light for either sport. 176 is better but still very light for football.

Ken talked him into football. No doubt but we saw nothing last year that would lead an objective person to think he would be anything but what he is especially on this team.

My point is and remains Navy gets so few players in any sport that are ranked among the top in any sport. It is a shame to see it squandered which is what we are watching.

[Farfromgeneva]

You all make good points.

Weight maintenance, maybe. They list him at 176 up from 165. 165 is light for either sport. 176 is better but still very light for football.

Ken talked him into football. No doubt but we saw nothing last year that would lead an objective person to think he would be anything but what he is especially on this team.

My point is and remains Navy gets so few players in any sport that are ranked among the top in any sport. It is a shame to see it squandered which is what we are watching.

Perhaps but remember despite being on a lacrosse board that football is the tail wagging the dog even at the academies.

[old salt]

It was 100% Xavier's choice to play FB. He chose Navy over UNC & ND because KN & JA did not rule out the possibility of playing both.

It's Xavier's call.

[youthathletics]

I won’t disagree OS, but let’s also be pragmatic, and know XA did have a choice to do both sports at Navy and one didn’t count....as far as playtime mattered. And JA was not going to get anywhere near that with a 10’ pole.

[Dip&Dunk]

It was 100% Xavier's choice to play FB. He chose Navy over UNC & ND because KN & JA did not rule out the possibility of playing both.

It's Xavier's call.

Xavier having to play Spring Ball appears to counter any two sport claims.

I agree it appears it is his call though. Ultimately that is all that matters.

[old salt]

I won’t disagree OS, but let’s also be pragmatic, and know XA did have a choice to do both sports at Navy and one didn’t count....as far as playtime mattered. And JA was not going to get anywhere near that with a 10’ pole.

...are you saying he wouldn't have had a chance at playing time had he chosen lax ? I agree that so long as he's playing QB there's little chance he can play lax, especially since he had no TO experience, no NAPS & a covid stunted 2020 preseason. If he doesn't nail down the starting QB job this season he could still switch to lax this coming spring.

It'll be interesting to see how he does the rest of this season. KN took over play calling from IJ last season & moved IJ from the press box to the sideline in 2020 to gameday coach the QBs. Apparently KN has wanted to diversify the offense, IJ wanted to do all-TO. Who knows how that will impact XA ? Of the 3 QB's, XA has the least TO experience & is the least proficient passer of the 3, ...but KN starts him. Lot's tbd -- what will the offense look like without IJ & will Lavatai come back & win the starter job again ? Masai could now be in the running for starter. May need all 3, it's going to be a brutal stretch for the next 7 games.