Will Maryland be a Powerhouse again in 2022?

[@inthe8m]

Why would anyone be expecting great things out of a team that went 13-10 over the last 1+ seasons? You have to wonder about the 2020 recruiting class that only had one player contributing significantly - KH on D. And, it is not as if the Terps could not have used a lot more output from the 2020s in 2021 (especially on offense) and Reese has never been shy about playing FR. If the 2021 UA Senior Game is any indication, no one should expect much out of the 2021 class for Maryland. If Maryland is on the brink of being a powerhouse again with the existing talent, why do they need to bring in five transfers? How many supposed Top 25 girls did Maryland have transferred to other schools ... Rielly, Flaherty ...? Were the Top 25 girls that transferred out not developing at Maryland or were they overhyped because they committed to Maryland?

Madison Sterling, Demma Hall and Jordyn Lipkin--midfielders all in the class of '21 and headed to College Park. Supposedly in the top 10 according to Inside Lacrosse. Are these in the group you were referring to?

Also this "Were the Top 25 girls that transferred out not developing at Maryland...?" What's your opinion? If so--why not?

Welcome to FanLax by the way. I've enjoyed reading your opinions. Always great to have a new "voice" come on the scene.

Oh--and what does FOGO stand for? I saw you used it in another post.

I put very little, if any, value into IL's ranking of recruits.

My opinion is that it is a little bit of A and a little bit of B. It always seems at Maryland that if you do not play significantly in your first two years that you probably are never going to see the field very much. I think that is why you saw the two JRs transfer. So, I do not think Maryland develops players and I think players get over overhyped just because they commit to Maryland.

Thanks.

As others mentioned, FOGO is face off/get off. Women's lax has players that also specialize in the draw, but DGO just does not roll off the tongue the same way.

[@inthe8m]

Okay, now give us a more detailed/in depth answer.

How about just the low hanging fruit? Why would anyone be expecting great things out of a team that went 13-10 over the last 1+ seasons? You have to wonder about the 2020 recruiting class that only had one player contributing significantly - KH on D. And, it is not as if the Terps could not have used a lot more output from the 2020s in 2021 (especially on offense) and Reese has never been shy about playing FR. If the 2021 UA Senior Game is any indication, no one should expect much out of the 2021 class for Maryland. If Maryland is on the brink of being a powerhouse again with the existing talent, why do they need to bring in five transfers? How many supposed Top 25 girls did Maryland have transfer to other schools ... Rielly, Flaherty ...? Were the Top 25 girls that transferred out not developing at Maryland or were they overhyped because they committed to Maryland?

I've said on here before that the 2021 MD class is overrated and your last question applies to both the 2020 and 2021 class. When girls were committing to MD in 8th and 9th grade they were immediately ranked high and stayed there even if they didn't really develop much over 4 years of HS. Throw in the fact that due to Covid people didn't see a lot of kids play and there hasn't been a lot of adjustment in the rankings. That said, the 2 best athletes committed to MD didn't play in the UA game because they are injured. If Cathy thought the solutions were on the roster she wouldn't have brought in 5 transfers and had to perform whatever scholarship math magic she must have had to do to make it happen.

Really good insight - some kids top out early in HS while others continue to develop in college...and once you are "on the top 20/50 list" you don't drop off. I would also question the IL rating PSU's class in 2020 as #1.

I shake my head at some of the ratings of kids coming out of our area sometimes and know that the people who rate some of these kids have never seen them play.

Agree. IL clearly gives a bump to girls from certain regions and high schools and a bump to girls who commit to certain schools. If a girl meets both of those criteria, they automatically get bumped up even higher. Add in how lazy some of the coaches are in their recruiting where they only recruit from certain regions, schools, and/or clubs and the miscalculation grows.

I will say that there are some highly ranked girls that are really good and make a really bad decision about where to attend school if they wanted to play significantly. I have seen some really great HS players pick a college where they just do not fit the system, culture, etc. and they never produce at the college level. The new recruiting rules should help with some of that, but there will still be girls that will pick schools based off the name on the jersey instead of where they really fit and can be successful.

[wlaxphan20]

In the men's game, this is almost always a highly specialized and enormously coveted position. In the women's game, at this point not so much specialization in the sense that the kid "gets off" immediately.

Yeah, I've always felt in the past the term FOGO carried much more of a negative connotation in wlax than in men's.

[hmmm]

Okay, now give us a more detailed/in depth answer.

How about just the low hanging fruit? Why would anyone be expecting great things out of a team that went 13-10 over the last 1+ seasons? You have to wonder about the 2020 recruiting class that only had one player contributing significantly - KH on D. And, it is not as if the Terps could not have used a lot more output from the 2020s in 2021 (especially on offense) and Reese has never been shy about playing FR. If the 2021 UA Senior Game is any indication, no one should expect much out of the 2021 class for Maryland. If Maryland is on the brink of being a powerhouse again with the existing talent, why do they need to bring in five transfers? How many supposed Top 25 girls did Maryland have transfer to other schools ... Rielly, Flaherty ...? Were the Top 25 girls that transferred out not developing at Maryland or were they overhyped because they committed to Maryland?

I've said on here before that the 2021 MD class is overrated and your last question applies to both the 2020 and 2021 class. When girls were committing to MD in 8th and 9th grade they were immediately ranked high and stayed there even if they didn't really develop much over 4 years of HS. Throw in the fact that due to Covid people didn't see a lot of kids play and there hasn't been a lot of adjustment in the rankings. That said, the 2 best athletes committed to MD didn't play in the UA game because they are injured. If Cathy thought the solutions were on the roster she wouldn't have brought in 5 transfers and had to perform whatever scholarship math magic she must have had to do to make it happen.

Really good insight - some kids top out early in HS while others continue to develop in college...and once you are "on the top 20/50 list" you don't drop off. I would also question the IL rating PSU's class in 2020 as #1.

I shake my head at some of the ratings of kids coming out of our area sometimes and know that the people who rate some of these kids have never seen them play.

Agree. IL clearly gives a bump to girls from certain regions and high schools and a bump to girls who commit to certain schools. If a girl meets both of those criteria, they automatically get bumped up even higher. Add in how lazy some of the coaches are in their recruiting where they only recruit from certain regions, schools, and/or clubs and the miscalculation grows.

I will say that there are some highly ranked girls that are really good and make a really bad decision about where to attend school if they wanted to play significantly. I have seen some really great HS players pick a college where they just do not fit the system, culture, etc. and they never produce at the college level. The new recruiting rules should help with some of that, but there will still be girls that will pick schools based off the name on the jersey instead of where they really fit and can be successful.

There are more UA AA's sitting on the bench at MD than there are on almost every other school's roster. You are seeing more and more girls transferring out of MD now that there is no threat of having to sit a year. Many of them have found success at other schools like Towson. I do think the new recruiting rules have helped this some as the talent is really spread out in the 2021 and 2022 classes.

[wlaxphan20]

Okay, now give us a more detailed/in depth answer.

How about just the low hanging fruit? Why would anyone be expecting great things out of a team that went 13-10 over the last 1+ seasons? You have to wonder about the 2020 recruiting class that only had one player contributing significantly - KH on D. And, it is not as if the Terps could not have used a lot more output from the 2020s in 2021 (especially on offense) and Reese has never been shy about playing FR. If the 2021 UA Senior Game is any indication, no one should expect much out of the 2021 class for Maryland. If Maryland is on the brink of being a powerhouse again with the existing talent, why do they need to bring in five transfers? How many supposed Top 25 girls did Maryland have transfer to other schools ... Rielly, Flaherty ...? Were the Top 25 girls that transferred out not developing at Maryland or were they overhyped because they committed to Maryland?

I've said on here before that the 2021 MD class is overrated and your last question applies to both the 2020 and 2021 class. When girls were committing to MD in 8th and 9th grade they were immediately ranked high and stayed there even if they didn't really develop much over 4 years of HS. Throw in the fact that due to Covid people didn't see a lot of kids play and there hasn't been a lot of adjustment in the rankings. That said, the 2 best athletes committed to MD didn't play in the UA game because they are injured. If Cathy thought the solutions were on the roster she wouldn't have brought in 5 transfers and had to perform whatever scholarship math magic she must have had to do to make it happen.

Really good insight - some kids top out early in HS while others continue to develop in college...and once you are "on the top 20/50 list" you don't drop off. I would also question the IL rating PSU's class in 2020 as #1.

I shake my head at some of the ratings of kids coming out of our area sometimes and know that the people who rate some of these kids have never seen them play.

Agree. IL clearly gives a bump to girls from certain regions and high schools and a bump to girls who commit to certain schools. If a girl meets both of those criteria, they automatically get bumped up even higher. Add in how lazy some of the coaches are in their recruiting where they only recruit from certain regions, schools, and/or clubs and the miscalculation grows.

I will say that there are some highly ranked girls that are really good and make a really bad decision about where to attend school if they wanted to play significantly. I have seen some really great HS players pick a college where they just do not fit the system, culture, etc. and they never produce at the college level. The new recruiting rules should help with some of that, but there will still be girls that will pick schools based off the name on the jersey instead of where they really fit and can be successful.

I agree with the thoughts & opinions about ranking players as well. Sometimes I wonder if it's also due to the amount of actual coverage the writers at these magazines are doing or are even able to do. I just cant imagine it's as thorough as the player rankings in AAU basketball or travel baseball or HS football where kids are seen by scouts, reports are written, and there's actually mobility in the rankings as these kids grow and develop over several years. Not saying that's an excuse at all for giving preference to girls because they commit to certain schools or play for different HS or club programs - just wondering if it's a limitation on how thoroughly the rankings are researched. I wouldn't expect women's lacrosse to have the same amount of money or effort put in to ranking high school recruits as college revenue sports and sports that have major professional leagues like basketball, baseball, & football.

8m & inthe8m you also make a lot of great points that I agree with

some kids top out early in HS while others continue to develop in college

There was a class of gifted lacrosse players going through a HS near me years back - lots of D1 commits to good schools (Uconn, OSU, Dartmouth, Navy to name a few). One girl in that class didn't commit until almost a full year after her classmates. She also went D1, went Ivy, and out of all the girls in her class had the best career - ended up being on the final list of 25 for Tewaaraton nominees as a senior. This leads me to the second point I really like and agree with enthusiastically..

I have seen some really great HS players pick a college where they just do not fit the system, culture, etc. and they never produce at the college level. The new recruiting rules should help with some of that, but there will still be girls that will pick schools based off the name on the jersey instead of where they really fit and can be successful.

This happens a lot more often than you'd think. And this doesn't necessarily mean you point to the coach and say they're a terrible recruiter or point to the kid and say "wow what a flop, they never reached their potential". It happens and we can really only try to mitigate it.

[DMac]

As others mentioned, FOGO is face off/get off. Women's lax has players that also specialize in the draw, but DGO just does not roll off the tongue the same way.

DIVA does though.
Draw It, Vamoose ASAP.

[wlaxphan20]

As others mentioned, FOGO is face off/get off. Women's lax has players that also specialize in the draw, but DGO just does not roll off the tongue the same way.

DIVA does though.
Draw It, Vamoose ASAP.

HAHA

[LarryGamLax]

This is not just a Maryland thing. This happens in a lot of places. Who's at fault? It can be coaches and it also falls to players and parents. I have been fighting this battle for years and years. Do players REALLY know their level of ability? Do their parents or coaches? Are the Club coaches gassing up the egos of some players and ignoring others to get players into the D1 programs thus making themselves more than what they actually are?
Think about it...can you look at 3 different players on a field and say which is D1, D2 and D3? Most people can't and that's not a knock on them. Can you look at 3 players and say which will develop into the Best of the three? College Coaches are supposed to do that for a living, but they don't always get it right. The problem I see with a lot of this is that the art of developing talent seems to be a thing of the past. I can remember Freshmen not playing at all(or little) and developing into solid players through coaching and teaching. These days, if you are not getting good playing time as a Frosh, you might want to get in the Transfer Portal if you want to actually play. However, if you're content with being on the team and wearing the uniform and hanging out with your friends, then things are right where you want them to be. Playing is not a priority.

I would like to see players make better decisions based on all of the available info. I know the stories of many girls who made a bad choice and ended up leaving the sport...for good.

[wlaxphan20]

This is not just a Maryland thing. This happens in a lot of places. Who's at fault? It can be coaches and it also falls to players and parents. I have been fighting this battle for years and years. Do players REALLY know their level of ability? Do their parents or coaches? Are the Club coaches gassing up the egos of some players and ignoring others to get players into the D1 programs thus making themselves more than what they actually are?
Think about it...can you look at 3 different players on a field and say which is D1, D2 and D3? Most people can't and that's not a knock on them. Can you look at 3 players and say which will develop into the Best of the three? College Coaches are supposed to do that for a living, but they don't always get it right. The problem I see with a lot of this is that the art of developing talent seems to be a thing of the past. I can remember Freshmen not playing at all(or little) and developing into solid players through coaching and teaching. These days, if you are not getting good playing time as a Frosh, you might want to get in the Transfer Portal if you want to actually play. However, if you're content with being on the team and wearing the uniform and hanging out with your friends, then things are right where you want them to be. Playing is not a priority.

I would like to see players make better decisions based on all of the available info. I know the stories of many girls who made a bad choice and ended up leaving the sport...for good.

Right you are Larry, definitely not exclusive to Maryland!

[Essexfenwick]

Whoever is the first to embrace and actively recruit and develop transsexuals is going to take the game to another level.

[LarryGamLax]

Whoever is the first to embrace and actively recruit and develop transsexuals is going to take the game to another level.

Is this supposed to be funny? You would like to see a whole new level of controversy come to this sport, right?

[Essexfenwick]

Whoever is the first to embrace and actively recruit and develop transsexuals is going to take the game to another level.

Is this supposed to be funny? You would like to see a whole new level of controversy come to this sport, right?

Not really controversial, it’s pretty much a settled subject and definitely embraced by the ncaa

[LarryGamLax]

Whoever is the first to embrace and actively recruit and develop transsexuals is going to take the game to another level.

Is this supposed to be funny? You would like to see a whole new level of controversy come to this sport, right?

Not really controversial, it’s pretty much a settled subject and definitely embraced by the ncaa

I said what I said and that's it. Oh look, this is my stop right here. Gotta go. Bye!

[@inthe8m]

This is not just a Maryland thing. This happens in a lot of places. Who's at fault? It can be coaches and it also falls to players and parents. I have been fighting this battle for years and years. Do players REALLY know their level of ability? Do their parents or coaches? Are the Club coaches gassing up the egos of some players and ignoring others to get players into the D1 programs thus making themselves more than what they actually are?
Think about it...can you look at 3 different players on a field and say which is D1, D2 and D3? Most people can't and that's not a knock on them. Can you look at 3 players and say which will develop into the Best of the three? College Coaches are supposed to do that for a living, but they don't always get it right. The problem I see with a lot of this is that the art of developing talent seems to be a thing of the past. I can remember Freshmen not playing at all(or little) and developing into solid players through coaching and teaching. These days, if you are not getting good playing time as a Frosh, you might want to get in the Transfer Portal if you want to actually play. However, if you're content with being on the team and wearing the uniform and hanging out with your friends, then things are right where you want them to be. Playing is not a priority.

I would like to see players make better decisions based on all of the available info. I know the stories of many girls who made a bad choice and ended up leaving the sport...for good.

Right you are Larry, definitely not exclusive to Maryland!

Nope, not at all.

[@inthe8m]

Okay, now give us a more detailed/in depth answer.

How about just the low hanging fruit? Why would anyone be expecting great things out of a team that went 13-10 over the last 1+ seasons? You have to wonder about the 2020 recruiting class that only had one player contributing significantly - KH on D. And, it is not as if the Terps could not have used a lot more output from the 2020s in 2021 (especially on offense) and Reese has never been shy about playing FR. If the 2021 UA Senior Game is any indication, no one should expect much out of the 2021 class for Maryland. If Maryland is on the brink of being a powerhouse again with the existing talent, why do they need to bring in five transfers? How many supposed Top 25 girls did Maryland have transfer to other schools ... Rielly, Flaherty ...? Were the Top 25 girls that transferred out not developing at Maryland or were they overhyped because they committed to Maryland?

I've said on here before that the 2021 MD class is overrated and your last question applies to both the 2020 and 2021 class. When girls were committing to MD in 8th and 9th grade they were immediately ranked high and stayed there even if they didn't really develop much over 4 years of HS. Throw in the fact that due to Covid people didn't see a lot of kids play and there hasn't been a lot of adjustment in the rankings. That said, the 2 best athletes committed to MD didn't play in the UA game because they are injured. If Cathy thought the solutions were on the roster she wouldn't have brought in 5 transfers and had to perform whatever scholarship math magic she must have had to do to make it happen.

Really good insight - some kids top out early in HS while others continue to develop in college...and once you are "on the top 20/50 list" you don't drop off. I would also question the IL rating PSU's class in 2020 as #1.

I shake my head at some of the ratings of kids coming out of our area sometimes and know that the people who rate some of these kids have never seen them play.

Agree. IL clearly gives a bump to girls from certain regions and high schools and a bump to girls who commit to certain schools. If a girl meets both of those criteria, they automatically get bumped up even higher. Add in how lazy some of the coaches are in their recruiting where they only recruit from certain regions, schools, and/or clubs and the miscalculation grows.

I will say that there are some highly ranked girls that are really good and make a really bad decision about where to attend school if they wanted to play significantly. I have seen some really great HS players pick a college where they just do not fit the system, culture, etc. and they never produce at the college level. The new recruiting rules should help with some of that, but there will still be girls that will pick schools based off the name on the jersey instead of where they really fit and can be successful.

There are more UA AA's sitting on the bench at MD than there are on almost every other school's roster. You are seeing more and more girls transferring out of MD now that there is no threat of having to sit a year. Many of them have found success at other schools like Towson. I do think the new recruiting rules have helped this some as the talent is really spread out in the 2021 and 2022 classes.

Which came first, the UA AA designation or the commit to the Terps?

Maryland's 2018 class had 4 IL Top 50 women (#14 Hoffman, #16 Welsh, #21 Rielly, and #42 Lynch) who were all UA AAs. #21 and #42 never played and have transferred to Florida and Virginia Tech. #14 and #16 have 2 career starts between them with 20 career points. Of the 7 women IL had ranked or on the watch list, they ended up with one solid contributor - a defender who was on the watch list. They brought 9 FR in 2019 and the 2 not listed by IL have never played. This is why Reese is bringing in 5 transfers. You really need 3-4 solid contributors at a minimum from each class to have a successful team.

For comparison, the 2019 class (the #1 IL class) is performing better than 2018. Of course, the 2018 class set the bar really low. The 2019 class had 6 IL Top 50 women (#4 Ahern, #5 Schettig, #9 Luebecker, #13 Flaherty, #20 Sites, and #26 Hensh) who were all UA AAs. #5 transferred to ND after 2020 and only played in seven games for ND in 2021, #13 played in 4 games and transferred to Florida. The 6 UA AAs have combined for 37 career starts (21 from #4 and 16 from #9) and 91 career points (21 from #4, 61 from #9, 6 from #20, and 3 from #26). Of the 5 watch list women, 2 have never played. The G (2019 watch list) from the class started last year (over the 2018 watch list G) and has a career 0.390 SV %. Two from the watch list, the G and Libby May have combined for 37 starts and May has 52 career points. So, it appears they did get 4 solid contributors out of the 2019 class and you would hope so given they had 6 in the Top 50 and 11 in the Top 100 according to IL.

For those keeping track at home, that means that the 10 Top 50 (UA AAs) signed by Maryland in 2018/2019 have combined for 39 career starts and 111 career points and 4 have transferred to other schools because they were not playing at Maryland.

The 2020 class is still too early to judge, but there was only one solid contributor from the class last season and it was someone from the watch list and not one of the 3 Top 50 players. One of the watchlist players has already transferred.

I will add that I wish nothing but success and happiness to every single one of the young women

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Which came first, the UA AA designation or the commit to the Terps?

Maryland's 2018 class had 4 IL Top 50 women (#14 Hoffman, #16 Welsh, #21 Rielly, and #42 Lynch) who were all UA AAs. #21 and #42 never played and have transferred to Florida and Virginia Tech. #14 and #16 have 2 career starts between them with 20 career points. Of the 7 women IL had ranked or on the watch list, they ended up with one solid contributor - a defender who was on the watch list. They brought 9 FR in 2019 and the 2 not listed by IL have never played. This is why Reese is bringing in 5 transfers. You really need 3-4 solid contributors at a minimum from each class to have a successful team.

For comparison, the 2019 class (the #1 IL class) is performing better than 2018. Of course, the 2018 class set the bar really low. The 2019 class had 6 IL Top 50 women (#4 Ahern, #5 Schettig, #9 Luebecker, #13 Flaherty, #20 Sites, and #26 Hensh) who were all UA AAs. #5 transferred to ND after 2020 and only played in seven games for ND in 2021, #13 played in 4 games and transferred to Florida. The 6 UA AAs have combined for 37 career starts (21 from #4 and 16 from #9) and 91 career points (21 from #4, 61 from #9, 6 from #20, and 3 from #26). Of the 5 watch list women, 2 have never played. The G (2019 watch list) from the class started last year (over the 2018 watch list G) and has a career 0.390 SV %. Two from the watch list, the G and Libby May have combined for 37 starts and May has 52 career points. So, it appears they did get 4 solid contributors out of the 2019 class and you would hope so given they had 6 in the Top 50 and 11 in the Top 100 according to IL.

For those keeping track at home, that means that the 10 Top 50 (UA AAs) signed by Maryland in 2018/2019 have combined for 39 career starts and 111 career points and 4 have transferred to other schools because they were not playing at Maryland.

The 2020 class is still too early to judge, but there was only one solid contributor from the class last season and it was someone from the watch list and not one of the 3 Top 50 players. One of the watchlist players has already transferred.

I will add that I wish nothing but success and happiness to every single one of the young women

Is Reese directly or indirectly responsible/negligent/unlucky in any of this?

[wlaxphan20]

Is Reese directly or indirectly responsible/negligent/unlucky in any of this?

Setting aside UA AA and being a ranked recruit by ILWomen, I don't think this type of movement is really that out of the ordinary. I'd like to think, and give the benefit of the doubt to the coaches out there, that for the most part it's just unlucky. Maybe there's someone on here that knows more than me and can tell you otherwise.

Maybe the program/school doesn't meet the kid's expectations? Maybe there was an event in their personal/family life? Maybe there was something besides the lacrosse program that the athlete didn't like? Leaving your home and high school bubble is a big change, and sometimes kids find their priorities change as well. Even with the new recruiting rules, 16 is young to make a decision like that and expect it to work out perfectly.

The best thing coaches and family members can do is arm the athletes with information about the school (beyond athletics), demands of a collegiate athlete, social skills, and confidence. Provide guidance and reiterate that the idea is not to find the best school that will take the athlete, but the best fit for the athlete based on their goals (whether its playing right away, $$$ off tuition, location, certain academic majors, being content sitting on the bench but being at their dream school, etc.). This will help them make the best informed decision. Like Larry said, making decisions based on all the available info. And even when that's done to the best of everyones ability, it can still go wrong. You can never avoid this happening entirely, only work to mitigate it. If it doesn't work out, at the very least it's a learning experience.

I know there are also cases where the coaches are the problem and it's causing athletes to transfer en masse. Those cases are not the ones I'm referring to. Dr. Tact brought it up on the forum before and I agree with him - the athletes quite frankly don't owe us an explanation.

There are more UA AA's sitting on the bench at MD than there are on almost every other school's roster. You are seeing more and more girls transferring out of MD now that there is no threat of having to sit a year.

I thought beforehand they only had to sit a year if they transferred within their own conference? And even then, that year can be waived if the releasing coach agrees to it. Does anyone even know of an example where an athlete was actually required to sit the year before competing in women's lacrosse? CN was the closes to it I can remember, but she got it waived.

[Bart]

Whoever is the first to embrace and actively recruit and develop transsexuals is going to take the game to another level.

What an odd post and an equally odd place to put it.

[DMac]

Definitely an I'm gonna stir the pot (*not as in Tom's Tumbler) post and out of place.
Hey E'wick, ever wander over to the Water Cooler? You could stir up some discussion
about this over there in a heartbeat. Lot of experts and answers to pretty much
everything over there. Take a walk on the wild side and go jump in.
*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaMR4gY9e8o

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

There’s a spectacular car/train chase scene in The French Connection. At one point cop “Popeye” Doyle swerves, tires screeching, to avoid a horrific accident. This has that written all over it. Steer Right Clear.