Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

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dislaxxic
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Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Post by dislaxxic »

A Top U.S. Military Officer Finally Admits He Was Wrong About Afghanistan

Mike Mullen comes clean about some of the mistakes made by senior military men regarding our posture in Afghanistan...
Mullen said that he and his fellow officers got two big things wrong. First, he said, “We underestimated the impact of corruption.”

Even at the time, Mullen stressed the importance of stopping corruption within the Afghan government. At a Senate hearing back in September 2009, a few months before Obama decided on a war policy, Mullen testified, “The Afghan government needs to have some legitimacy in the eyes of the people. The core issue is the corruption. … It’s been a way of life for some time, and it’s just got to change. That threat is every bit as significant as the Taliban.” Sen. Lindsey Graham, noting that the Taliban were gaining ground because of this corruption, asked, “We could send a million troops, and that wouldn’t restore legitimacy in the government?”* Mullen replied, “That is correct.”

The corruption never ended, yet Mullen continued to support the war effort. In our interview, he recalled a 2011 scandal at Kabul Bank, in which Afghan insiders embezzled $850 million—all U.S. taxpayers’ money—and spent it on personal luxuries. “We had the goods on them,” Mullen recalled. An anti-corruption agency, led by U.S. officials, had been created to go after these sorts of crimes. But the administration “chose not to prosecute,” he said. “I realized right then that this was politically going nowhere.”
...and what US administration "chose not to prosecute", you might wonder...well, check into the timing of this issue yourself.
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Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

dislaxxic wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:49 am A Top U.S. Military Officer Finally Admits He Was Wrong About Afghanistan

Mike Mullen comes clean about some of the mistakes made by senior military men regarding our posture in Afghanistan...
Mullen said that he and his fellow officers got two big things wrong. First, he said, “We underestimated the impact of corruption.”

Even at the time, Mullen stressed the importance of stopping corruption within the Afghan government. At a Senate hearing back in September 2009, a few months before Obama decided on a war policy, Mullen testified, “The Afghan government needs to have some legitimacy in the eyes of the people. The core issue is the corruption. … It’s been a way of life for some time, and it’s just got to change. That threat is every bit as significant as the Taliban.” Sen. Lindsey Graham, noting that the Taliban were gaining ground because of this corruption, asked, “We could send a million troops, and that wouldn’t restore legitimacy in the government?”* Mullen replied, “That is correct.”

The corruption never ended, yet Mullen continued to support the war effort. In our interview, he recalled a 2011 scandal at Kabul Bank, in which Afghan insiders embezzled $850 million—all U.S. taxpayers’ money—and spent it on personal luxuries. “We had the goods on them,” Mullen recalled. An anti-corruption agency, led by U.S. officials, had been created to go after these sorts of crimes. But the administration “chose not to prosecute,” he said. “I realized right then that this was politically going nowhere.”
...and what US administration "chose not to prosecute", you might wonder...well, check into the timing of this issue yourself.
diss, the scandal was in 2011...are you saying that we didn't have the "goods on them" during the Obama Admin, but later did under the Trump Admin? Or did the Obama Admin blow this?
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Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

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Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Post by dislaxxic »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:53 amdiss, the scandal was in 2011...are you saying that we didn't have the "goods on them" during the Obama Admin, but later did under the Trump Admin? Or did the Obama Admin blow this?
It's confusing as presented in the article i linked to...so i went and dug around a bit about it...still doing so. Check it out yourself and see what you can uncover. A lot comes up when googling "Corruption in Afghanistan". Here's one source article. There are many. Our military and diplomatic efforts at addressing this issue are murky and, at the end of the day, shouldn't reasonably be laid at the feet of any single administration. Elements of our military-industrial complex may well be a thread that winds through the whole thing though.

..
"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog." - Calvin, to Hobbes
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Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Post by Farfromgeneva »

dislaxxic wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:25 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:53 amdiss, the scandal was in 2011...are you saying that we didn't have the "goods on them" during the Obama Admin, but later did under the Trump Admin? Or did the Obama Admin blow this?
It's confusing as presented in the article i linked to...so i went and dug around a bit about it...still doing so. Check it out yourself and see what you can uncover. A lot comes up when googling "Corruption in Afghanistan". Here's one source article. There are many. Our military and diplomatic efforts at addressing this issue are murky and, at the end of the day, shouldn't reasonably be laid at the feet of any single administration. Elements of our military-industrial complex may well be a thread that winds through the whole thing though.

..
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/108 ... n_Triangle
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Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Post by RedFromMI »

I served in Afghanistan as a US Marine, twice. Here’s the truth in two sentences


https://www.kansascity.com/opinion/read ... 41358.html

What we are seeing in Afghanistan right now shouldn’t shock you. It only seems that way because our institutions are steeped in systematic dishonesty. It doesn’t require a dissertation to explain what you’re seeing. Just two sentences.

One: For 20 years, politicians, elites and D.C. military leaders lied to us about Afghanistan.

Two: What happened last week was inevitable, and anyone saying differently is still lying to you.

I know because I was there. Twice. On special operations task forces. I learned Pashto as a U.S. Marine captain and spoke to everyone I could there: everyday people, elites, allies and yes, even the Taliban.

The truth is that the Afghan National Security Forces was a jobs program for Afghans, propped up by U.S. taxpayer dollars — a military jobs program populated by nonmilitary people or “paper” forces (that didn’t really exist) and a bevy of elites grabbing what they could when they could.
You probably didn’t know that. That’s the point.

And it wasn’t just in Afghanistan. They also lied about Iraq.

I led a team of Marines training Iraqi security forces to defend their country. When I arrived I received a “stoplight” chart on their supposed capabilities in dozens of missions and responsibilities. Green meant they were good. Yellow was needed improvement; red said they couldn’t do it at all.

I was delighted to see how far along they were on paper — until I actually began working with them. I attempted to adjust the charts to reflect reality and was quickly shut down. The ratings could not go down. That was the deal. It was the kind of lie that kept the war going.

So when people ask me if we made the right call getting out of Afghanistan in 2021, I answer truthfully: Absolutely not. The right call was getting out in 2002. 2003. Every year we didn’t get out was another year the Taliban used to refine their skills and tactics against us — the best fighting force in the world. After two decades, $2 trillion and nearly 2,500 American lives lost, 2021 was way too late to make the right call.

You’d think when it all came crumbling down around them, they’d accept the truth. Think again.

War-hungry hawks are suggesting our soldiers weren’t in harm’s way. Well, when I was there, two incredible Marines in my unit were killed.

Elitist hacks are even blaming the American people for what happened last week. The same American people that they spent years lying to about Afghanistan. Are you kidding me?

We deserve better. Instead of politicians spending $6.4 trillion to “nation build” in the Middle East, we should start nation building right here at home.

I can’t believe that would be a controversial proposal, but already in Washington, we see some of the same architects of these Middle Eastern disasters balking at the idea of investing a fraction of that amount to build up our own country.

The lies about Afghanistan matter not just because of the money spent or the lives lost, but because they are representative of a systematic dishonesty that is destroying our country from the inside out.

Remember when they told us the economy was back? Another lie.

Our state of Missouri was home to the worst economic recovery from the Great Recession in this part of the country. I see the boarded-up stores and the vacant lots — one of which used to be my family’s home. When our country’s elites were preaching about how they had solved the financial crisis and the housing market was booming, I watched the house I joined the Marine Corps out of sit on the market for two years. My dad finally got $43,000 for it. He owed $78,000.

The only way out is to level with the American people. I’ll start. With the two-sentence truth about what we are seeing in Afghanistan right now:

For 20 years, politicians, elites and D.C. military leaders lied to us about Afghanistan.

What happened last week was inevitable, and anyone saying differently is still lying to you.
Cole County native Lucas Kunce is a Marine veteran and antitrust advocate. He is a Democratic candidate for U.S. Senate.
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Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

RedFromMI wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:45 am
I served in Afghanistan as a US Marine, twice. Here’s the truth in two sentences


https://www.kansascity.com/opinion/read ... 41358.html

What we are seeing in Afghanistan right now shouldn’t shock you. It only seems that way because our institutions are steeped in systematic dishonesty. It doesn’t require a dissertation to explain what you’re seeing. Just two sentences.

One: For 20 years, politicians, elites and D.C. military leaders lied to us about Afghanistan.

Two: What happened last week was inevitable, and anyone saying differently is still lying to you.

I know because I was there. Twice. On special operations task forces. I learned Pashto as a U.S. Marine captain and spoke to everyone I could there: everyday people, elites, allies and yes, even the Taliban.

The truth is that the Afghan National Security Forces was a jobs program for Afghans, propped up by U.S. taxpayer dollars — a military jobs program populated by nonmilitary people or “paper” forces (that didn’t really exist) and a bevy of elites grabbing what they could when they could.
You probably didn’t know that. That’s the point.

And it wasn’t just in Afghanistan. They also lied about Iraq.

I led a team of Marines training Iraqi security forces to defend their country. When I arrived I received a “stoplight” chart on their supposed capabilities in dozens of missions and responsibilities. Green meant they were good. Yellow was needed improvement; red said they couldn’t do it at all.

I was delighted to see how far along they were on paper — until I actually began working with them. I attempted to adjust the charts to reflect reality and was quickly shut down. The ratings could not go down. That was the deal. It was the kind of lie that kept the war going.

So when people ask me if we made the right call getting out of Afghanistan in 2021, I answer truthfully: Absolutely not. The right call was getting out in 2002. 2003. Every year we didn’t get out was another year the Taliban used to refine their skills and tactics against us — the best fighting force in the world. After two decades, $2 trillion and nearly 2,500 American lives lost, 2021 was way too late to make the right call.

You’d think when it all came crumbling down around them, they’d accept the truth. Think again.

War-hungry hawks are suggesting our soldiers weren’t in harm’s way. Well, when I was there, two incredible Marines in my unit were killed.

Elitist hacks are even blaming the American people for what happened last week. The same American people that they spent years lying to about Afghanistan. Are you kidding me?

We deserve better. Instead of politicians spending $6.4 trillion to “nation build” in the Middle East, we should start nation building right here at home.

I can’t believe that would be a controversial proposal, but already in Washington, we see some of the same architects of these Middle Eastern disasters balking at the idea of investing a fraction of that amount to build up our own country.

The lies about Afghanistan matter not just because of the money spent or the lives lost, but because they are representative of a systematic dishonesty that is destroying our country from the inside out.

Remember when they told us the economy was back? Another lie.

Our state of Missouri was home to the worst economic recovery from the Great Recession in this part of the country. I see the boarded-up stores and the vacant lots — one of which used to be my family’s home. When our country’s elites were preaching about how they had solved the financial crisis and the housing market was booming, I watched the house I joined the Marine Corps out of sit on the market for two years. My dad finally got $43,000 for it. He owed $78,000.

The only way out is to level with the American people. I’ll start. With the two-sentence truth about what we are seeing in Afghanistan right now:

For 20 years, politicians, elites and D.C. military leaders lied to us about Afghanistan.

What happened last week was inevitable, and anyone saying differently is still lying to you.
Cole County native Lucas Kunce is a Marine veteran and antitrust advocate. He is a Democratic candidate for U.S. Senate.
That guy must not realize its all on Biden…..thanks for posting. It’s basic common sense and the facts on the ground confirm it. Afghan government didn’t put up a fight. We should have been out of there years ago.
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Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Post by Brooklyn »

Instead of politicians spending $6.4 trillion to “nation build” in the Middle East, we should start nation building right here at home.

It's what I've been saying on the old LP forum and on this one for years. Up to now right wingers have viewed this as "communism" when done at home but as "defense" when done overseas. Let's see what they have to say about it now.

I'll wait.
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Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Post by kramerica.inc »

A great watch overall, if you have a half hour.



Some first hand insight to life under Taliban at: 16:45 and 26:30.

The areas shown are under US occupation. Regardless of the motivations for being there, thank you to the US soldiers that have made life better for many people in Afghanistan.

How will life be under Taliban? Will Noor's school for orphans get off the ground?

You decide. But I think we all know how this story ends, unfortunately.
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Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

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https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 244854002/

Bidens folks have to figure out a way to blame this all on trump. trump is the only hobgoblin the dems can blame it on. I'm guessing one term Joe will make the same conclusion that LBJ made when it comes to running for re-election. He has to know he is FUBAR as a candidate. I don't think even MDs republicans could fail at making mincemeat out of him in an election campaign at this monumental failure of the POTUS.
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Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Post by Farfromgeneva »

cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:37 am https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 244854002/

Bidens folks have to figure out a way to blame this all on trump. trump is the only hobgoblin the dems can blame it on. I'm guessing one term Joe will make the same conclusion that LBJ made when it comes to running for re-election. He has to know he is FUBAR as a candidate. I don't think even MDs republicans could fail at making mincemeat out of him in an election campaign at this monumental failure of the POTUS.
And yet he beat Trump cleanly.
Harvard University, out
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I am going to get a 4.0 in damage.

(Afan jealous he didn’t do this first)
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Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Post by Brooklyn »

guessing game:


Image
https://whatwouldjackdo.org/wp-content/ ... aliban.jpg




The Taliban took over in Afghanistan because they have majority support.

Republicans are trying to take over even though they are the minority as opposed to the more patriotic majority Democrats.

Taliban & Republicans resort to censorship, lies, and violence in order to get their way.


The only discernible difference between the two groups is the way they dress.
It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

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Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Post by jhu72 »

Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
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Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Post by youthathletics »

Brooklyn is happy about that.....
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Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Post by cradleandshoot »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:06 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:37 am https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 244854002/

Bidens folks have to figure out a way to blame this all on trump. trump is the only hobgoblin the dems can blame it on. I'm guessing one term Joe will make the same conclusion that LBJ made when it comes to running for re-election. He has to know he is FUBAR as a candidate. I don't think even MDs republicans could fail at making mincemeat out of him in an election campaign at this monumental failure of the POTUS.
And yet he beat Trump cleanly.
SE Hinton wrote a great novel called that was then, this is now. Joe Biden is sitting on the precipice of a calamity that makes the french humiliation at Dien Bien Phu look like a day in Disney land. The Taliban are now dictating to Joe what he can and can't do. Damn, I bet having beaten trump cleanly ain't a thought running through Bidens mind right about now.

I'm wondering how many folks on this forum, without doing a Google search, remember what happened to the French at Dien Bien Phu?
Last edited by cradleandshoot on Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Post by youthathletics »

cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:53 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:06 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:37 am https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 244854002/

Bidens folks have to figure out a way to blame this all on trump. trump is the only hobgoblin the dems can blame it on. I'm guessing one term Joe will make the same conclusion that LBJ made when it comes to running for re-election. He has to know he is FUBAR as a candidate. I don't think even MDs republicans could fail at making mincemeat out of him in an election campaign at this monumental failure of the POTUS.
And yet he beat Trump cleanly.
SE Hinton wrote a great novel called that was then, this is now. Joe Biden is sitting on the precipice of a calamity that makes the french humiliation at Dien Bien Phu look like a day in Disney land. The Taliban are now dictating to Joe what he can and can't do. Damn, I bet having beaten trump cleanly ain't a thought running through Bidens mind right about now.
his CIA top dog Burns met secretly with the Taliban yesterday, according to TWP. Maybe, he'll clean up the messes Joe left him.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy


“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
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Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Post by cradleandshoot »

youthathletics wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:04 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:53 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:06 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:37 am https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 244854002/

Bidens folks have to figure out a way to blame this all on trump. trump is the only hobgoblin the dems can blame it on. I'm guessing one term Joe will make the same conclusion that LBJ made when it comes to running for re-election. He has to know he is FUBAR as a candidate. I don't think even MDs republicans could fail at making mincemeat out of him in an election campaign at this monumental failure of the POTUS.
And yet he beat Trump cleanly.
SE Hinton wrote a great novel called that was then, this is now. Joe Biden is sitting on the precipice of a calamity that makes the french humiliation at Dien Bien Phu look like a day in Disney land. The Taliban are now dictating to Joe what he can and can't do. Damn, I bet having beaten trump cleanly ain't a thought running through Bidens mind right about now.
his CIA top dog Burns met secretly with the Taliban yesterday, according to TWP. Maybe, he'll clean up the messes Joe left him.
I really hope he didn't wear a blue dress. We know how that interlude would play out. If it was a secret meeting why do we know about it? Would not a secret meeting by definition be secret? :lol:
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Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Post by youthathletics »

cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:07 pm
youthathletics wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:04 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:53 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:06 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:37 am https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 244854002/

Bidens folks have to figure out a way to blame this all on trump. trump is the only hobgoblin the dems can blame it on. I'm guessing one term Joe will make the same conclusion that LBJ made when it comes to running for re-election. He has to know he is FUBAR as a candidate. I don't think even MDs republicans could fail at making mincemeat out of him in an election campaign at this monumental failure of the POTUS.
And yet he beat Trump cleanly.
SE Hinton wrote a great novel called that was then, this is now. Joe Biden is sitting on the precipice of a calamity that makes the french humiliation at Dien Bien Phu look like a day in Disney land. The Taliban are now dictating to Joe what he can and can't do. Damn, I bet having beaten trump cleanly ain't a thought running through Bidens mind right about now.
his CIA top dog Burns met secretly with the Taliban yesterday, according to TWP. Maybe, he'll clean up the messes Joe left him.
I really hope he didn't wear a blue dress. We know how that interlude would play out. If it was a secret meeting why do we know about it? Would not a secret meeting by definition be secret? :lol:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cia-taliba ... acuations/
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy


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Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Post by Kismet »

cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:53 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:06 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:37 am https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 244854002/

Bidens folks have to figure out a way to blame this all on trump. trump is the only hobgoblin the dems can blame it on. I'm guessing one term Joe will make the same conclusion that LBJ made when it comes to running for re-election. He has to know he is FUBAR as a candidate. I don't think even MDs republicans could fail at making mincemeat out of him in an election campaign at this monumental failure of the POTUS.
And yet he beat Trump cleanly.
SE Hinton wrote a great novel called that was then, this is now. Joe Biden is sitting on the precipice of a calamity that makes the french humiliation at Dien Bien Phu look like a day in Disney land. The Taliban are now dictating to Joe what he can and can't do. Damn, I bet having beaten trump cleanly ain't a thought running through Bidens mind right about now.

I'm wondering how many folks on this forum, without doing a Google search, remember what happened to the French at Dien Bien Phu?
Congratulations. You have moved on from Normandy and Dresden to the 1950s for your military comparisons. Although this one is a bit more relevant at least, tactically.

You skipped Korea - no Pork Chop Hill references? :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :oops:
BTW ever hear of the Berlin Airlift? I find it comparable and perhaps its outcome and effectiveness doesn't fit your historical narrative. :oops: And we did tell the Rooskies exactly what we were going to do in advance BTW. They didn't believe we could successfully pull it off.
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Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

Post by cradleandshoot »

Kismet wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:29 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:53 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:06 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:37 am https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 244854002/

Bidens folks have to figure out a way to blame this all on trump. trump is the only hobgoblin the dems can blame it on. I'm guessing one term Joe will make the same conclusion that LBJ made when it comes to running for re-election. He has to know he is FUBAR as a candidate. I don't think even MDs republicans could fail at making mincemeat out of him in an election campaign at this monumental failure of the POTUS.
And yet he beat Trump cleanly.
SE Hinton wrote a great novel called that was then, this is now. Joe Biden is sitting on the precipice of a calamity that makes the french humiliation at Dien Bien Phu look like a day in Disney land. The Taliban are now dictating to Joe what he can and can't do. Damn, I bet having beaten trump cleanly ain't a thought running through Bidens mind right about now.

I'm wondering how many folks on this forum, without doing a Google search, remember what happened to the French at Dien Bien Phu?
Congratulations. You have moved on from Normandy and Dresden to the 1950s for your military comparisons. Although this one is a bit more relevant at least, tactically.

You skipped Korea - no Pork Chop Hill references? :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :oops:
BTW ever hear of the Berlin Airlift? I find it comparable and perhaps its outcome and effectiveness doesn't fit your historical narrative. :oops: And we did tell the Rooskies exactly what we were going to do in advance BTW. They didn't believe we could successfully pull it off.
Your almost correct with the Berlin airlift. That did not involve flying people out it involved parachuting supplies to the people on the ground. I guess the term airlift had you confused there skippy.
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