Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

[PizzaSnake]

If this is the reality of the situation, these clowns are lucky the Marines didn't cap them. F 'em. I can't abide child-molesters.

8 year old story, resurrected now to rationalize deserting all our ASF allies who are not child-molesters, as the Taliban seize their 12 year old child brides.

Really? How about this one?

[Farfromgeneva]

Point fingers and lay blame, analyze and dissect, ultimately what you end up with is yet another group of GIs dead and buried, and countless others maimed struggling with day to day life. You knew this was going to happen when you went in but you went in anyway. We don't learn from our mistakes, I've seen this movie before and it had the same ending. Only question that remains is where we'll send our young GIs to die in vain next. So very sad.

The problem is that this was not a "mistake". It was all done on purpose just like Vietnam and Iraq. Wars created for one purpose only: to enrich the wealthy. This is precisely what was accomplished in all three wars. Trillions in dollars lost, the nation's debt increased, thousands dead, hundreds of thousands wounded, vast resources wasted, wealthy elites laughing all the way to the bank, and everybody blaming the Democrats for the problems created by Republicans.

Within the next 2 years there will be another war with the same scenario repeated as above. Again, it will not be a "mistake". It will be done on purpose because people stupidly refuse that all this is the truth.

Could you point me to the business plan that was created to generate wealth from the war? I can get on board with bad decision making or even an idea of revenge or bloodlust and have read books such as the Iron Triangle along with experiences with shops like Carlyle but this implies prior intent and for all their flaws and poor decisions I still don’t see the premeditated plot to further enrich wealthy through war.

I’m curious about where you have sources your breakdown of wealthy that benefit from war by political affiliation?

Making this all Dem v Rep ignores the socioeconomic reality IMO.

[Farfromgeneva]

THERE MAY WELL HAVE BEEN AN INTELLIGENCE FAILURE IN AFGHANISTAN

Trump's Deep State poisoned the well?

See, Flynn was right about the myopic IC.
He would not have slept while the Taliban stole a march on us.
He understood the Taliban & their appeal to the potential jihadists.

Good lord, time to resurrect Flynn???

The Taliban "won" the country when Trump announced a complete withdrawal, over the objection of allies and the local, corrupt puppet government, cutting out the Afghan military. Done deal from there as the military negotiated their own 'step aside'.

Whether this would have happened in May (Trump's deadline) or in August, it was going to happen. And no amount of insight was going to change that reality.

The only question is why we didn't execute on the exit better, getting more friendlies out, more control over important equipment, etc. But even there, we really don't know (yet -may never really know) where that execution failed, or whether doing more sooner would have just accelerated the Taliban roll through the country earlier as well.

We also don't know that we could have held on with a light footprint, low casualty rate, etc had Biden reversed the Trump commitment. That, too, might have backfired.

But from a domestic political perspective, no question in my mind that Biden will take a hit for a while. Longer term history view may reveal that he made the best of a terrible situation, but we won't have consensus on that perspective for a bit.

We could have handled the withdrawal better. I would have liked to think that we had more insight regarding how quickly the government would give up the ghost. Hard to say with the drawdown, how intelligence was impacted. Could have been handled differently. Hopefully we find out if the administration was given fair warning but ignored it.

I’m fairness he was VP for 8 yrs where Barry had promised exit and it didn’t happen. Then it was handled poorly by the guy in between. Could it simple be a hotel California type situation from the moment we went in?

I feel terrible for the people there but at this point hard to disagree with Docs reductive argument that they have proven over four decades a lack of interest in self governing/self determination. Time to just move on.

[Brooklyn]

I can give you a reading list of books that discuss war profiteering but you will have to get your hands on corporate board meetings for specifics on any such plans.

[Typical Lax Dad]

THERE MAY WELL HAVE BEEN AN INTELLIGENCE FAILURE IN AFGHANISTAN

Trump's Deep State poisoned the well?

See, Flynn was right about the myopic IC.
He would not have slept while the Taliban stole a march on us.
He understood the Taliban & their appeal to the potential jihadists.

Good lord, time to resurrect Flynn???

The Taliban "won" the country when Trump announced a complete withdrawal, over the objection of allies and the local, corrupt puppet government, cutting out the Afghan military. Done deal from there as the military negotiated their own 'step aside'.

Whether this would have happened in May (Trump's deadline) or in August, it was going to happen. And no amount of insight was going to change that reality.

The only question is why we didn't execute on the exit better, getting more friendlies out, more control over important equipment, etc. But even there, we really don't know (yet -may never really know) where that execution failed, or whether doing more sooner would have just accelerated the Taliban roll through the country earlier as well.

We also don't know that we could have held on with a light footprint, low casualty rate, etc had Biden reversed the Trump commitment. That, too, might have backfired.

But from a domestic political perspective, no question in my mind that Biden will take a hit for a while. Longer term history view may reveal that he made the best of a terrible situation, but we won't have consensus on that perspective for a bit.

We could have handled the withdrawal better. I would have liked to think that we had more insight regarding how quickly the government would give up the ghost. Hard to say with the drawdown, how intelligence was impacted. Could have been handled differently. Hopefully we find out if the administration was given fair warning but ignored it.

I’m fairness he was VP for 8 yrs where Barry had promised exit and it didn’t happen. Then it was handled poorly by the guy in between. Could it simple be a hotel California type situation from the moment we went in?

I feel terrible for the people there but at this point hard to disagree with Docs reductive argument that they have proven over four decades a lack of interest in self governing/self determination. Time to just move on.

Yep. I am hoping for a “peace dividend”

[Farfromgeneva]

THERE MAY WELL HAVE BEEN AN INTELLIGENCE FAILURE IN AFGHANISTAN

Trump's Deep State poisoned the well?

See, Flynn was right about the myopic IC.
He would not have slept while the Taliban stole a march on us.
He understood the Taliban & their appeal to the potential jihadists.

Good lord, time to resurrect Flynn???

The Taliban "won" the country when Trump announced a complete withdrawal, over the objection of allies and the local, corrupt puppet government, cutting out the Afghan military. Done deal from there as the military negotiated their own 'step aside'.

Whether this would have happened in May (Trump's deadline) or in August, it was going to happen. And no amount of insight was going to change that reality.

The only question is why we didn't execute on the exit better, getting more friendlies out, more control over important equipment, etc. But even there, we really don't know (yet -may never really know) where that execution failed, or whether doing more sooner would have just accelerated the Taliban roll through the country earlier as well.

We also don't know that we could have held on with a light footprint, low casualty rate, etc had Biden reversed the Trump commitment. That, too, might have backfired.

But from a domestic political perspective, no question in my mind that Biden will take a hit for a while. Longer term history view may reveal that he made the best of a terrible situation, but we won't have consensus on that perspective for a bit.

We could have handled the withdrawal better. I would have liked to think that we had more insight regarding how quickly the government would give up the ghost. Hard to say with the drawdown, how intelligence was impacted. Could have been handled differently. Hopefully we find out if the administration was given fair warning but ignored it.

I’m fairness he was VP for 8 yrs where Barry had promised exit and it didn’t happen. Then it was handled poorly by the guy in between. Could it simple be a hotel California type situation from the moment we went in?

I feel terrible for the people there but at this point hard to disagree with Docs reductive argument that they have proven over four decades a lack of interest in self governing/self determination. Time to just move on.

Yep. I am hoping for a “peace dividend”

Just one less thing to dedicate Human Resources and energy towards let alone dollars and lives. We got enough on our plate at the moment.

[old salt]

I’m fairness he was VP for 8 yrs where Barry had promised exit and it didn’t happen. Then it was handled poorly by the guy in between. Could it simple be a hotel California type situation from the moment we went in?

I feel terrible for the people there but at this point hard to disagree with Docs reductive argument that they have proven over four decades a lack of interest in self governing/self determination. Time to just move on.

Yep. A unified, democratic nation was never a realistic aspiration. The best we could hope for was several autonomous regions in a very loose republic, that allowed for travel, trade, & national borders. The Taliban, & their version of Sharia law, could have held sway in the Pashtun regions. Civil society could evolve in Kabul & other cities, as it has.

If Biden was committed to total withdrawal, he should have essentially sued for peace, via the DOHA process, assuring our total, non-kinetic withdrawal, diplomatic recognition & NGO administered humanitarian aid, so long as safe passage & evacuation are allowed, for everyone a NATO nation designates, for as long as it takes.

[PizzaSnake]

'The hawks still circle and screech. The voices from the past 20 years who prodded us forward into battle return to the evening news to sell us on staying. “It’s not too late,” the former generals, secretaries and ambassadors say. “More troops can hold the line. Victory is just around the corner.”'

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/16/opin ... teran.html

[Farfromgeneva]

I can give you a reading list of books that discuss war profiteering but you will have to get your hands on corporate board meetings for specifics on any such plans.

I gave you one there Iron Triangle. I read those and work with the people accused without actual information. Some are not the best people, some are better than both of us combined but li will never seemingly believe that. Those books are always backwards looking. I’m looking for the plans in advance. It’s easy to demonize an entire cohort just not very accurate like shooting with a sawed off shotgun.

[Farfromgeneva]

'The hawks still circle and screech. The voices from the past 20 years who prodded us forward into battle return to the evening news to sell us on staying. “It’s not too late,” the former generals, secretaries and ambassadors say. “More troops can hold the line. Victory is just around the corner.”'

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/16/opin ... teran.html

Not to be confused with complete xenophobic retrenchment of course. I often liked George Wills approach to international relations and situations.

[old salt]

Based on Ned Price at today's State Dept briefing, it appears our US citizens are departing Kabul via military shuttle flights to Doha, Qatar AND Kuwait City, for further transfer to airline flights to the US.

...more return on investment from the large air bases we've maintained in the Gulf.

The French flights are evacuating through the air base we share in & with the UAE

[Brooklyn]

Based on Ned Price at today's State Dept briefing, it appears our US citizens are departing Kabul via military shuttle flights to Doha, Qatar AND Kuwait City, for further transfer to airline flights to the US.

...more return on investment from the large air bases we've maintained in the Gulf.

The French flights are evacuating through the air base we share in & with the UAE

Any word on who/what exactly are these Americans? Greedy corporatists profiting from the now lost imperialist war or Christian missionaries trying to convert the "infidels" from their erroneous ways?

[Farfromgeneva]

Based on Ned Price at today's State Dept briefing, it appears our US citizens are departing Kabul via military shuttle flights to Doha, Qatar AND Kuwait City, for further transfer to airline flights to the US.

...more return on investment from the large air bases we've maintained in the Gulf.

The French flights are evacuating through the air base we share in & with the UAE

Any word on who/what exactly are these Americans? Greedy corporatists profiting from the now lost imperialist war or Christian missionaries trying to convert the "infidels" from their erroneous ways?

My father in law spent time over there around 8-10yrs ago as they were managing a power plant for DOD or whatever entity (presumably via GSA but don’t know for sure) in afghanistan. Are you suggesting if he were still there he should be left behind or not treated like a citizen of the US? A guy who’s sponsored multiple niece/nephews, took care of his mother and retarded adult sister after his father died, tutors young kids in math through a program and has funded all the stained glass at his church among other things.

If that’s the implication of your question then it’s way way out of line and isn’t a good look.

[Brooklyn]

^ Whether they stay or not is their business, not mine. Just asking who they are or what they represent.

Previously I had read there were Christian missionaries who came after the invasion but that some had left as their efforts were disapproved but I don't know who remained.

[Farfromgeneva]

^ Whether they stay or not is their business, not mine. Just asking who they are or what they represent.

Previously I had read there were Christian missionaries who came after the invasion but that some had left as their efforts were disapproved but I don't know who remained.

Why does it matter if they are Us citizens at risk in a foreign country that was just taken over by new leadership but force who’s antagonistic to anyone who looks like an American? If we shouldn’t have gotten into the war then we consequently by your own logic must get them all out safely. The question seems unnecessary.

They are American citizens so they represent America as well as their families back home.

[Brooklyn]

Let them come out safely. Look, I'm not being hostile to them nor do I want to see anyone get hurt. All I wanted to know is who they were or represented. Since you don't have an answer I'll leave it at that.

[old salt]

Boris Johnson is calling an emerg mtg of the G7. It would be great if they could get the Taliban to let them open other airports around the country for departing evacuation flights. Use the leverage of economic sanctions & freezing of Afghan funds. Make a deal.

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/artic ... fghanistan

https://www.defenseone.com/policy/2021/ ... os/184559/

[old salt]

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2021/08 ... t-happens/

The ones that got away

Not all military aircraft were left in Afghanistan for the Taliban to recover.

On Sunday night, three Afghan air force aircraft and two helicopters — which were transporting 143 troops — landed safely in Tajikistan after receiving permission from the country’s authorities, reported The New York Times.

The Afghan air force has also sought safe haven in Uzbekistan, although it is unclear how many aircraft and personnel have flown into the country over the past several days.

On Monday, Uzbekistan’s Prosecutor General’s Office confirmed that 22 unspecified military aircraft and 24 helicopters — collectively carrying 585 soldiers and airmen — flew into the country on Aug. 14 and 15, Uzbekistan’s Podrobno news agency reported.

The office also stated that three more A-29 attack aircraft requested permission to land on Aug. 15 and were given MiG-29 escorts by the Uzbek military, but one MiG-29 and A-29 collided during flight. The pilots of both aircraft ejected safely.

On Aug. 16, the office rescinded its statement in full, providing no elaboration on how many Afghan aircraft had landed in the country.

[Kismet]

https://www.sarahchayes.org/post/the-ides-of-august

Interesting analysis from former DoD staffer to Adm. Mike Mullen with emphasis on the corruption angle - Afghans Karzai (former head of state) and Abdullah (inside the Ghani government) likely in on the collapse and takeover. Also mentioned, the continuing free passes given to our alleged ally Pakistan over the years and how they should not really be considered one. Lastly, a look at our own tendency to look the other way and actively participate in corruption when certain Americans view these things as a way to quickly make a buck. Also makes one wonder if Karzai, Abdullah and others in the Afghan government past and present were in on the deal. If true, another big one apparently missed by the Biden administration, IC and Military.

"I was there. Afghans did not reject us. They looked to us as exemplars of democracy and the rule of law. They thought that’s what we stood for.

And what did we stand for? What flourished on our watch? Cronyism, rampant corruption, a Ponzi scheme disguised as a banking system, designed by U.S. finance specialists during the very years that other U.S. finance specialists were incubating the crash of 2008. A government system where billionaires get to write the rules."

[youthathletics]

Based on Ned Price at today's State Dept briefing, it appears our US citizens are departing Kabul via military shuttle flights to Doha, Qatar AND Kuwait City, for further transfer to airline flights to the US.

...more return on investment from the large air bases we've maintained in the Gulf.

The French flights are evacuating through the air base we share in & with the UAE

Any word on who/what exactly are these Americans? Greedy corporatists profiting from the now lost imperialist war or Christian missionaries trying to convert the "infidels" from their erroneous ways?

My father in law spent time over there around 8-10yrs ago as they were managing a power plant for DOD or whatever entity (presumably via GSA but don’t know for sure) in afghanistan. Are you suggesting if he were still there he should be left behind or not treated like a citizen of the US? A guy who’s sponsored multiple niece/nephews, took care of his mother and retarded adult sister after his father died, tutors young kids in math through a program and has funded all the stained glass at his church among other things.

If that’s the implication of your question then it’s way way out of line and isn’t a good look.

Crazy how he put them in to 1 of two classes....SMDH.