All things CoronaVirus

[wgdsr]

so it looks like vaccination is starting to look like it offers no help.

also, in places like mass, the death rate in july for vaxxed has climbed 15 fold or 1,400% (30% vs 2%) since the beginning of the year when measuring vaxxed/unvaxxed. scary times. and looks like it's getting worse by the day. wash your hands.

[Typical Lax Dad]

so it looks like vaccination is starting to look like it offers no help.

also, in places like mass, the death rate in july for vaxxed has climbed 15 fold or 1,400% (30% vs 2%) since the beginning of the year when measuring vaxxed/unvaxxed. scary times. and looks like it's getting worse by the day. wash your hands.

When it was 2% what was the nominal number of deaths among the vaccinated?

[wgdsr]

so it looks like vaccination is starting to look like it offers no help.

also, in places like mass, the death rate in july for vaxxed has climbed 15 fold or 1,400% (30% vs 2%) since the beginning of the year when measuring vaxxed/unvaxxed. scary times. and looks like it's getting worse by the day. wash your hands.

When it was 2% what was the nominal number of deaths among the vaccinated?

ggait says it's 2% now since beginning of the year. but it's 30% in the last month. that's scary and i can't fathom how this might end. i don't understand the rest of the question. rephrase?

[RedFromMI]

so it looks like vaccination is starting to look like it offers no help.

also, in places like mass, the death rate in july for vaxxed has climbed 15 fold or 1,400% (30% vs 2%) since the beginning of the year when measuring vaxxed/unvaxxed. scary times. and looks like it's getting worse by the day. wash your hands.

When it was 2% what was the nominal number of deaths among the vaccinated?

ggait says it's 2% now since beginning of the year. but it's 30% in the last month. that's scary and i can't fathom how this might end. i don't understand the rest of the question. rephrase?

Where do you get any number like 30%? 30% of what?

In reality you have no real knowledge of the actual number of breakthrough cases, as you will miss all asymptomatic ones, and many of the low symptom cases will not be connected with COVID.

From: https://www.nbcboston.com/news/coronavi ... s/2463080/

106 total deaths in MA from vaccinated individuals. Period. Death rate for populatoin is about 0.002%.

[ggait]

WSGR -- 30% of what?

I can't figure out what you are talking about.

You said above that it looks like the vax is no help? Whatch u talkin' bout Willis?

[wgdsr]

see what you started, tld?

[wgdsr]

so it looks like vaccination is starting to look like it offers no help.

also, in places like mass, the death rate in july for vaxxed has climbed 15 fold or 1,400% (30% vs 2%) since the beginning of the year when measuring vaxxed/unvaxxed. scary times. and looks like it's getting worse by the day. wash your hands.

When it was 2% what was the nominal number of deaths among the vaccinated?

ggait says it's 2% now since beginning of the year. but it's 30% in the last month. that's scary and i can't fathom how this might end. i don't understand the rest of the question. rephrase?

Where do you get any number like 30%? 30% of what?

In reality you have no real knowledge of the actual number of breakthrough cases, as you will miss all asymptomatic ones, and many of the low symptom cases will not be connected with COVID.

From: https://www.nbcboston.com/news/coronavi ... s/2463080/

106 total deaths in MA from vaccinated individuals. Period. Death rate for populatoin is about 0.002%.

that's stuff we went thru on aug 10. look it up yourself in fanlax. your numbers are garbage for what's going on now. but be mad at me. not to mention i'm mocking purposeful or unintentional misinformation.
but whatevs.

[Typical Lax Dad]

see what you started, tld?

Still haven’t read anything that suggests vaccines don’t help.

https://www.kpcnews.com/covid-19/articl ... 59955.html

At some point 100% of cases and deaths will be of the vaccinated population if we get 100% of the population vaccinated (which isn’t going to happen).

[wgdsr]

see what you started, tld?

Still haven’t read anything that suggests vaccines don’t help.

https://www.kpcnews.com/covid-19/articl ... 59955.html

At some point 100% of cases and deaths will be of the vaccinated population if we get 100% of the population vaccinated (which isn’t going to happen).

lol!! have you stopped beating your wife?

[Typical Lax Dad]

see what you started, tld?

Still haven’t read anything that suggests vaccines don’t help.

https://www.kpcnews.com/covid-19/articl ... 59955.html

At some point 100% of cases and deaths will be of the vaccinated population if we get 100% of the population vaccinated (which isn’t going to happen).

lol!! have you stopped beating your wife?

Not yet.

[Farfromgeneva]

So is your point that there’s little benefit to getting vaccinated? I’m not clear what point you are actually making but it seems like it’s focused on discrediting the idea that there is much real value in the vaccine. Help me understand if your position is something different that you are trying to convey here. I can understand why TLD responds such as he has. It sure seems like the line of commentary you’ve been presenting is to suggest that it’s not very helpful to get a vaccine but perhaps you position is different and it could be clarified a bit.

Is it just that it’s bad strategy to promote efficacy because the people who don’t believe it now will become more skeptical? If so do you believe they aren’t pretty much lost on this topic of taking reasonable preventative measures to limit amplification of this existing and new strain? Do you think the administration would be a proven failure if entrenched anti Vaxxers doubled down because vacc efficiency is diminishing with this new strain? Does it prove their wrong and unfit to be in office or prove the resistance correct?

[Farfromgeneva]

see what you started, tld?

Still haven’t read anything that suggests vaccines don’t help.

https://www.kpcnews.com/covid-19/articl ... 59955.html

At some point 100% of cases and deaths will be of the vaccinated population if we get 100% of the population vaccinated (which isn’t going to happen).

lol!! have you stopped beating your wife?

Not yet.

He’s just taking a dinner break but saving that really hard breadstick for later.

[wgdsr]

So is your point that there’s little benefit to getting vaccinated? I’m not clear what point you are actually making but it seems like it’s focused on discrediting the idea that there is much real value in the vaccine. Help me understand if your position is something different that you are trying to convey here. I can understand why TLD responds such as he has. It sure seems like the line of commentary you’ve been presenting is to suggest that it’s not very helpful to get a vaccine but perhaps you position is different and it could be clarified a bit.

Is it just that it’s bad strategy to promote efficacy because the people who don’t believe it now will become more skeptical? If so do you believe they aren’t pretty much lost on this topic of taking reasonable preventative measures to limit amplification of this existing and new strain? Do you think the administration would be a proven failure if entrenched anti Vaxxers doubled down because vacc efficiency is diminishing with this new strain? Does it prove their wrong and unfit to be in office or prove the resistance correct?

let's ignore the 2nd paragraph for a moment. if you can find anywhere in our initial conversations where i discredited any real value in vaccination, quote me. tld is being either a wise ass or probing. so quote me and i'll reply with an explanation. i actually at all stops to that point was giving pro- vaxx info, if you couldn't follow. but i'll explain.

[Farfromgeneva]

So is your point that there’s little benefit to getting vaccinated? I’m not clear what point you are actually making but it seems like it’s focused on discrediting the idea that there is much real value in the vaccine. Help me understand if your position is something different that you are trying to convey here. I can understand why TLD responds such as he has. It sure seems like the line of commentary you’ve been presenting is to suggest that it’s not very helpful to get a vaccine but perhaps you position is different and it could be clarified a bit.

Is it just that it’s bad strategy to promote efficacy because the people who don’t believe it now will become more skeptical? If so do you believe they aren’t pretty much lost on this topic of taking reasonable preventative measures to limit amplification of this existing and new strain? Do you think the administration would be a proven failure if entrenched anti Vaxxers doubled down because vacc efficiency is diminishing with this new strain? Does it prove their wrong and unfit to be in office or prove the resistance correct?

let's ignore the 2nd paragraph for a moment. if you can find anywhere in our initial conversations where i discredited any real value in vaccination, quote me. tld is being either a wise ass or probing. so quote me and i'll reply with an explanation. i actually at all stops to that point was giving pro- vaxx info, if you couldn't follow. but i'll explain.

Don’t worry about it I won’t ever bother you agains. I post largely on phone and pulling multiple quotes into one reply here is beyond cumbersome process wise so forget it. I hate the quote in quote and picking at pieces some people so love even though it obscures the entirety of the message often or loses part of the message.

So if I have to go quote by quote then I’ll let you two guys f aroudn with each other and just move on. I sure don’t think seeing the same context and line of thinking/inquiry, consistently questioning the current value of the vacc as well as the approach our government is taking without throwing down a marker for a position does allow for plausible deniability while at the same time doesn’t require direct quotes to come to the conclusion absent clarification that the position is such. If a marker is never put down it starts to just look like the musings of Jack Handy-should I treat it accordingly?

How come it seems like when I do ask for more specific positions I feel like you often tend to carve out meaningful portions and only focus on little micro aspects or ignore portions that are very germane? Do you not like the questions or clarifications I ask of you so divert or avoid addressing? Or just numerous coincidences?

[wgdsr]

jimminy effin xmas. all i said originally and to date is the vaxx efficacy now is not it was at trials. hard stop.

this is not a new position. i also mentioned (since confirmed by others tossing in) that the humongo #s of if you're vaxxed, you're 99% cool tossed out there in media aren't what's going on now.

this is hardly controversial, except maybe on fanlax. i presented facts. not with an agenda, but if you read for your own individual deal, you'd think most would appreciate, but maybe not.

so now, again, you accuse me of ish. w.t.f. do you want to know? i just just offered answers, and that's not good enough for you, because you're evidently too lazy but will chime in anyway.

what do u want to know? specifically or generally?

edit: and as long as we're here, you're more difficult to understand than me. half of what you say i have no idea.

[RedFromMI]

Ok. I see where you first used the 30% figure…. Number of breakthrough cases, perhaps as a percentage of all cases (mostly delta variant now).

Still don’t think we would know that number to any degree of accuracy, as our testing practices will miss a lot of breakthrough cases that never get tested.

I am a good example. Got what I thought was a bad sore throat/cold in mid July. Lasted a bit over a week. Vaccinated in March and April with Moderna.

Fiancé, who lives with me, got it two days later and it lasted for more like 10-12 days for her. Since we did not travel or really do anything with friends during that time, never thought of getting tested. But some later fatigue and muscle weakness symptoms had me questioning whether we had breakthrough cases. When I showed my family doc, a resident year two, my Fitbit resting heart rate - she agreed that was a possibility (month plus later). Rate went from low 70s to into 90s during the time I was sick. The only other time it got even close to that (low 80s) was during a week long trip to Aspen at 8000 feet.

I agree that the number of breakthrough cases is larger than what is ideal. But obviously the protective value of the vaccine is more than just keeping you from a case, but keeping you alive. If we had vaccination rates well above 80%, we old not be having the same discussions.

[Typical Lax Dad]

So is your point that there’s little benefit to getting vaccinated? I’m not clear what point you are actually making but it seems like it’s focused on discrediting the idea that there is much real value in the vaccine. Help me understand if your position is something different that you are trying to convey here. I can understand why TLD responds such as he has. It sure seems like the line of commentary you’ve been presenting is to suggest that it’s not very helpful to get a vaccine but perhaps you position is different and it could be clarified a bit.

Is it just that it’s bad strategy to promote efficacy because the people who don’t believe it now will become more skeptical? If so do you believe they aren’t pretty much lost on this topic of taking reasonable preventative measures to limit amplification of this existing and new strain? Do you think the administration would be a proven failure if entrenched anti Vaxxers doubled down because vacc efficiency is diminishing with this new strain? Does it prove their wrong and unfit to be in office or prove the resistance correct?

let's ignore the 2nd paragraph for a moment. if you can find anywhere in our initial conversations where i discredited any real value in vaccination, quote me. tld is being either a wise ass or probing. so quote me and i'll reply with an explanation. i actually at all stops to that point was giving pro- vaxx info, if you couldn't follow. but i'll explain.

Yes and yes….and also seeking clarification. A vaccine given today is still 98% effective. Vaccine given out today isn’t less potent. I believe declining efficacy has been established. You have an article in which someone has claimed that there is no such thing as declining efficacy? Since the rollout of vaccines has been over time, it’s hard to pinpoint where the population of vaccinated people stands regarding estimate population protection. We would need a rolling weighted average aggregating all three vaccines in the country… Weren’t there people here last Spring (2020) estimating that we were approaching heard immunity and scientists were under estimating the number of people already exposed but didn’t know it? I remember those days. Old Ethical Skeptic claimed the pandemic was really over in July of 2020. I thought we were through this last April or May….I remember reading that. I also believe the rush to get people vaccinated was to stay ahead of mutations. I believe scientists made that point as well.

[wgdsr]

red, they were (memory serving me) ~30% death in breakthrus in mass with ~70% vaxxed. that's great and translated into ~90% protection vs death.

other locales have shown less recently. my guess is it degrades with time (israel et al.), but boosters are coming and maybe eventually boosters taking a delta or the next delta into account. cases are a crapshoot, as they always have been.

the vaxxes to date have been great. they are not perfect. glad you and yours came out on the other side even if it wasn't sars. if it was, you're better off.

[Farfromgeneva]

jimminy effin xmas. all i said originally and to date is the vaxx efficacy now is not it was at trials. hard stop.

this is not a new position. i also mentioned (since confirmed by others tossing in) that the humongo #s of if you're vaxxed, you're 99% cool tossed out there in media aren't what's going on now.

this is hardly controversial, except maybe on fanlax. i presented facts. not with an agenda, but if you read for your own individual deal, you'd think most would appreciate, but maybe not.

so now, again, you accuse me of ish. w.t.f. do you want to know? i just just offered answers, and that's not good enough for you, because you're evidently too lazy but will chime in anyway.

what do u want to know? specifically or generally?

edit: and as long as we're here, you're more difficult to understand than me. half of what you say i have no idea.

Ok I can see you have no interest here so forget it. You’ve been the best most clear poster ever all the time and I’m some biased dumb lazy idiot. Still ignore and avoid questions I ask which is your perogatice but your partial answers are worthless without the entire context and a petty “you aren’t always clear either” response when I was asking for serious clarification is pretty dope as a response. If someone wants clarification from me when I throw innuendo or random thoughts apparently without any narrative intent whatsoever at any time I am more than happy to clarify since I’m the one who put out the initial comment. You approach things differently clearly and now I know.

[wgdsr]

So is your point that there’s little benefit to getting vaccinated? I’m not clear what point you are actually making but it seems like it’s focused on discrediting the idea that there is much real value in the vaccine. Help me understand if your position is something different that you are trying to convey here. I can understand why TLD responds such as he has. It sure seems like the line of commentary you’ve been presenting is to suggest that it’s not very helpful to get a vaccine but perhaps you position is different and it could be clarified a bit.

Is it just that it’s bad strategy to promote efficacy because the people who don’t believe it now will become more skeptical? If so do you believe they aren’t pretty much lost on this topic of taking reasonable preventative measures to limit amplification of this existing and new strain? Do you think the administration would be a proven failure if entrenched anti Vaxxers doubled down because vacc efficiency is diminishing with this new strain? Does it prove their wrong and unfit to be in office or prove the resistance correct?

let's ignore the 2nd paragraph for a moment. if you can find anywhere in our initial conversations where i discredited any real value in vaccination, quote me. tld is being either a wise ass or probing. so quote me and i'll reply with an explanation. i actually at all stops to that point was giving pro- vaxx info, if you couldn't follow. but i'll explain.

Yes and yes….and also seeking clarification. A vaccine given today is still 98% effective. Vaccine given out today isn’t less potent. I believe declining efficacy has been established. You have an article in which someone has claimed that there is no such thing as declining efficacy? Since the rollout of vaccines has been over time, it’s hard to pinpoint where the population of vaccinated people stands regarding estimate population protection. We would need a rolling weighted average aggregating all three vaccines in the country… Weren’t there people here last Spring (2020) estimating that we were approaching heard immunity and scientists were under estimating the number of people already exposed but didn’t know it? I remember those days. Old Ethical Skeptic claimed the pandemic was really over in July of 2020. I thought we were through this last April or May….I remember reading that. I also believe the rush to get people vaccinated was to stay ahead of mutations. I believe scientists made that point as well.

someone else will have to get you off the 98% thing, evidently.
won't be long.