The Nation's Financial Condition

[Brooklyn]

If you ever travelled to or lived in Minnesota you would know that it is filled with many Scandinavian-Americans as well as many Scandinavians who go to school or work here. I've had many such neighbors and acquaintances. My knowledge of the subject comes from them. They love the USA but almost none of them would trade what we have for what they have. That's what they have told me.

[Farfromgeneva]

And yet they are here and content? Do they believe you could overlay their system onto this country that’s vastly larger in geography, demography and culturally? Do they believe they are culturally similar to Italians, Austrians or Spanish? Why aren’t they still there or have migrated back? If israel had the quality of life of scandanavia how many Jewish people should’ve migrated back from the US by comparison? I mean I’ve heard the opposite within the last decade form folks who still live over there so at a minimum you’d agree there’s no consensus on which system, and by system I mean you have to take it all lock stock because that’s what was presented, as to whether their system is preferable even if there’s no difference between those actually currently living there and those who emigrated or are descendants whi are living here content today.

Only Minny experience is in and out business. Either the old Norwest bldgs now Wells w the walkway up a number of levels between bldgs, US Bancorp CIB offices or offices of three private shops called CarVal, CastleLake & OBrien Staley Partners. Those offices plus airport is my knowledge of Minnesota basically.

[Brooklyn]

Many have relatives and there is receptivity so there is no big surprise as to why they come here so readily. Some come and go every year. This unlike Hispanics, Southeast Asians, or East Africans. Once they return to their countries of origin they are not allowed to come back by the US government or by their own. Not always but often enough. Dunno why the double standard exists.

I've known plenty of Israelis (some of whom are here illegally) and none ever return there. Ditto for Russia. No secret that one of the biggest reasons being the military draft. While right wingers objected to Americans fleeing to Canada to avoid the draft they have no problem with Israelis and Russians using our shores for the same purpose.

Other than that, I cannot really answer for why people come and go. It's a question (and a good one I might add) better if directed to them, not to me.

[PizzaSnake]

Is the heavy position in short term debt an issue?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... nd=premium

[Farfromgeneva]

Many have relatives and there is receptivity so there is no big surprise as to why they come here so readily. Some come and go every year. This unlike Hispanics, Southeast Asians, or East Africans. Once they return to their countries of origin they are not allowed to come back by the US government or by their own. Not always but often enough. Dunno why the double standard exists.

I've known plenty of Israelis (some of whom are here illegally) and none ever return there. Ditto for Russia. No secret that one of the biggest reasons being the military draft. While right wingers objected to Americans fleeing to Canada to avoid the draft they have no problem with Israelis and Russians using our shores for the same purpose.

Other than that, I cannot really answer for why people come and go. It's a question (and a good one I might add) better if directed to them, not to me.

The Israel question as you can see was predicated on the notion that it were as safe as a Scandinavian country.

But to the rest of my point you see that the belief you’ve heard is not universal by residents of that country unless you want to choose to believe I’m not telling the truth which is your prerogative. So we both have anecdotal evidence that would cancel that argument out. But you also used them as evidence suggesting literal insight into this one specific area but can’t speak to any other thinking in their minds related at all to this topic of culture and structural living? Now back to do you believe this type of system is completely transferable with the same outcomes in a country 60x+ as large on any measure? By my time living there I could see that the size of the country made it impossible to compare to even German next door let alone the US. Seems like the case for higher min wage should be made absent the “they do it in scandanavia and it works so it should here” argument which is quite common of course.

[Farfromgeneva]

Is the heavy position in short term debt an issue?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... nd=premium

This was in WSJ the other day too. I don’t know I mean the point of loose monetary policy and flooding the system with money and credit was to push folks out the risk curve. That can be down by extending credit longer in duration (by longer term bonds for more yield even government bonds) or by moving out the credit curve (from us govt bonds to say, venture capital) so we can say that globally if money is sitting in super short duration principal protects instruments then we have too much money in the system. It could be a sign of problems or it could be sign collectively of waiting for a better opportunity to get paid for risk of investor felt like Delta wasn’t fully accounted for in asset values for example. Lower entry point as basis is worth sitting in cash rather than entering at a higher level. That wouldn’t be too concerning. We can’t know but if money is still invested in big risk profit less investments and there’s still record levels of cash in no risk pockets then there’s too much cash out there.

Technically all it does is steepen the yield curve as it Bids up the price (and consequently the yield to Investor) of short term bonds and sucks bids out of The longer term side pushing down those prices and those yields up. Note it may not seem much it we moved from like 1.15-1.30 in a day and are up to around 1.35% now to treasury traders that’s a massive move on the 10yr treasury bond so
I’m sure it’s related.

[kramerica.inc]

None of the Nordic EU countries (or any EU country for that matter) are comparable to the US. You could never implement what they have here.
Those countries can do what they want because their small federal land mass, large populations and just a few major cities. etc. They are the equivalent of NY. They are running a state government as a nation.

[Brooklyn]

Again, whether they prefer it here or not is up to them. I simply cannot speak for anyone else. One thing's for sure is that Israel is no paradise. Where would it be were it not for USA dollars continually propping up its government? And isn't it funny how nobody calls it "welfare" when they get such humongous handouts at taxpayer expense.

Is the Scandinavian type of system transferable here? Possibly. Can't help to try. Corporations such as BK, McDonalds, KFC are multibillion dollar groups. A slight increase in wages isn't going to cut all that much into their corporate profits. After all, it doesn't in Europe. Years ago people said Social Security and graduated income taxes would never work in the USA. But they did. You just never know until you try it.

[Farfromgeneva]

https://www.economist.com/briefing/2021 ... ts-footing

[Brooklyn]

https://www.economist.com/briefing/2021 ... ts-footing

^ USA & Japan with biggest corporate profits


now compare the nations quality of life: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/27/us-news ... -life.html

lower corporate profits, higher quality of life

[Farfromgeneva]

Again, whether they prefer it here or not is up to them. I simply cannot speak for anyone else. One thing's for sure is that Israel is no paradise. Where would it be were it not for USA dollars continually propping up its government? And isn't it funny how nobody calls it "welfare" when they get such humongous handouts at taxpayer expense.

Is the Scandinavian type of system transferable here? Possibly. Can't help to try. Corporations such as BK, McDonalds, KFC are multibillion dollar groups. A slight increase in wages isn't going to cut all that much into their corporate profits. After all, it doesn't in Europe. Years ago people said Social Security and graduated income taxes would never work in the USA. But they did. You just never know until you try it.

Didn’t you just post that wage increases won’t cut into corporate profits and then within a short period of time change the argument to quality of life, which I’m quite familiar with and familiar with the inherently qualitative nature of that analysis and ranking. No one has ever disputed that general contentment could be iterative in the sense that there’s a cultural difference in what folks define as quality based on how far ahead we have pulled from Europe. It’s a known issue with that analysis. But more importantly you seem to keep jumping around and throwing in new variables from the initial proclamation. Not sure I understand why all of that is useful or necessary.

[Brooklyn]

^ Frankly, I'm not sure why you even made that post about Japan/USA corporations. I mean, what's the big deal?

So European corporations aren't making the same profits as US businesses do (according to your source). But people in those countries have higher quality of life. That isn't under any dispute and they want it that way. Higher wages make for a better life and better society. Let's follow their model and see if it works here.

[Farfromgeneva]

https://www.economist.com/briefing/2021 ... ts-footing

^ USA & Japan with biggest corporate profits


now compare the nations quality of life: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/27/us-news ... -life.html

lower corporate profits, higher quality of life

I’ve read the US News and World Report ranking on quality of life. Rigorous...do you typically compare The Economist to USNWR?

The headline is quite intriguing isn’t it?

[Farfromgeneva]

^ Frankly, I'm not sure why you even made that post about Japan/USA corporations. I mean, what's the big deal?

So European corporations aren't making the same profits as US businesses do (according to your source). But people in those countries have higher quality of life. That isn't under any dispute and they want it that way. Higher wages make for a better life and better society. Let's follow their model and see if it works here.

It directly contradicts your assertion. You’re mixing and matching qualitative and quantitative and supporting it w USNWR.

I’m saying quality of life is subjective and you’re using some magazines as well and you want to challenge other sources including quantitative analysis? It is under debate, a USNWR report is hardly slam dunk evidence. You say expenses and real wages don’t matter by saying only nominal matters - that is direct from your words. I say real wages matter and that’s a very different thing. You say corporate profits aren’t impacted by higher wages so I give you an Economist analysis headlines Europe is slipping behind and has lower corporate profits. Do you not see all of this?

[Brooklyn]

Very well. Believe what you wish.

[Farfromgeneva]

Very well. Believe what you wish.

I’m open minded and asking you to back your original claims so I could consider supporting it. That’s all.

[Farfromgeneva]

Has anyone ever heard of first world problems? Is it possible people who have less are more content with less? Is that outrageous as a concept?

[Brooklyn]

Very well. Believe what you wish.

I’m open minded and asking you to back your original claims so I could consider supporting it. That’s all.

Good of you to be open minded. Glad to know that makes you receptive to the very real possibility that higher wages for BK employees will benefit the workers and society. Precisely my initial point in this exchange.

[Farfromgeneva]

Very well. Believe what you wish.

I’m open minded and asking you to back your original claims so I could consider supporting it. That’s all.

Good of you to be open minded. Glad to know that makes you receptive to the very real possibility that higher wages for BK employees will benefit the workers and society. Precisely my initial point in this exchange.

Higher REAL wages. I need something to illustrate that will occur. Hence my original comment regarding cost of living. A very important distinction. A slow growth country plus any meaningful inflation and we are in 1975-1980 again. But higher wages in absence of any sense of its impact on COL is entirely meaningless. I have no interest in generating inflation for inflations sake and frankly we clearly can’t with a decade of ZIRP and spreading money around like China using hoses on protesters. What you, I and everyone else should be more concerned about is that we have proven how little influence/control we have over this and consequently can’t manage it down without Volcker level type pain of that even works anymore. So I can’t get behind proclamations like higher corporate wages will guarantee a higher quality of life absent some discussion and analysis of the other factors involved.

[Brooklyn]

So I can’t get behind proclamations like higher corporate wages will guarantee a higher quality of life absent some discussion and analysis of the other factors involved.

Fair enough.

I suggest that you have a discussion on the subject with a social scientist or economist. I worked in the tax law field, am now retired, and have no expertise on either subject so I cannot possibly give you a more informed theory and analysis.