MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:20 am
Makary is a surgeon. Oncology and gastroenterology.
Not a public health scientist, not a virologist, not an infectious disease expert, not even a behavioral scientist.
A surgeon.
Anyone know some surgeons?
He's opining on topics entirely outside of his expertise and getting tons of attention. Undoubtedly a smart, accomplished surgeon, but that's it.
Being he's all that, you don't consider what he is saying as possibly correct? Or do you need a specific degree from a specific level of education in order to listen, consider, and then possibly proclaim correct?
Of course not.
I don't have those types of expertise and I like my "smart, accomplished" opinions just fine too!
Seriously, his opinion is not of an expert. Zero expertise in any field relevant to the questions at hand.
Which doesn't mean that his opinions couldn't possibly be correct, or at least some element...after all a broken clock is right twice a day.
But when someone who has no relevant expertise opines it should be given very little weight relative to the analyses of those who actually do have relevant expertise...btw, a virologist is not a behavioral scientist, so may not have the same answers as to how best to effect human behaviors...but the virologist can tell you how critical it is to indeed change human behaviors so as to fight how the virus spreads...it requires a combination of such expertise to reach the answers most likely to be correct.
A surgeon may have an enormous ego (every single surgeon I know has this quality!) but unlikely to have the relevant expertise to make their opinion actually more likely to be correct.
OK thanks, was just curious.
I mean, take Fauci... I don't know what his bona fides are (nor do I care) but his messaging and alleged actions throughout and leading up to this pandemic, have been a mess.
Just curious...if you know NADA about Fauci before the current situation as you claim, exactly how can you make such a critical statement/judgement about his expertise and knowledge of public health and virology?
How do you feel about Dr. Jonas Salk or Dr. Albert Sabin? Can we assume you took one of their vaccines for polio without any hesitancy or issue with their expertise?
Polio vaccines were tried for over 15 years before Salk discovered his. And then there were two years from his discovery to mass distribution.
... this is a cosmically dumb comment. Medical research technique has changed for the better, improved. The mRNA technology is a game changer. The idea that vaccine development should take the same amount of time as in the 40s and 50s is ridiculous. A billion doses have been administered, to this point, the statistics are much better than need be to prove safety and effectiveness for final approval.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:20 am
Makary is a surgeon. Oncology and gastroenterology.
Not a public health scientist, not a virologist, not an infectious disease expert, not even a behavioral scientist.
A surgeon.
Anyone know some surgeons?
He's opining on topics entirely outside of his expertise and getting tons of attention. Undoubtedly a smart, accomplished surgeon, but that's it.
Being he's all that, you don't consider what he is saying as possibly correct? Or do you need a specific degree from a specific level of education in order to listen, consider, and then possibly proclaim correct?
thanks. agree with a lot of this. looked up his bio at several locations, sounds pretty accomplished on initiatives and background for public health policy. not around virology or infectious diseases that i could tell, but with respect to the cost benefit of choices and policy drive.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:20 am
Makary is a surgeon. Oncology and gastroenterology.
Not a public health scientist, not a virologist, not an infectious disease expert, not even a behavioral scientist.
A surgeon.
Anyone know some surgeons?
He's opining on topics entirely outside of his expertise and getting tons of attention. Undoubtedly a smart, accomplished surgeon, but that's it.
Being he's all that, you don't consider what he is saying as possibly correct? Or do you need a specific degree from a specific level of education in order to listen, consider, and then possibly proclaim correct?
Of course not.
I don't have those types of expertise and I like my "smart, accomplished" opinions just fine too!
Seriously, his opinion is not of an expert. Zero expertise in any field relevant to the questions at hand.
Which doesn't mean that his opinions couldn't possibly be correct, or at least some element...after all a broken clock is right twice a day.
But when someone who has no relevant expertise opines it should be given very little weight relative to the analyses of those who actually do have relevant expertise...btw, a virologist is not a behavioral scientist, so may not have the same answers as to how best to effect human behaviors...but the virologist can tell you how critical it is to indeed change human behaviors so as to fight how the virus spreads...it requires a combination of such expertise to reach the answers most likely to be correct.
A surgeon may have an enormous ego (every single surgeon I know has this quality!) but unlikely to have the relevant expertise to make their opinion actually more likely to be correct.
OK thanks, was just curious.
I mean, take Fauci... I don't know what his bona fides are (nor do I care) but his messaging and alleged actions throughout and leading up to this pandemic, have been a mess.
Just curious...if you know NADA about Fauci before the current situation as you claim, exactly how can you make such a critical statement/judgement about his expertise and knowledge of public health and virology?
How do you feel about Dr. Jonas Salk or Dr. Albert Sabin? Can we assume you took one of their vaccines for polio without any hesitancy or issue with their expertise?
Polio vaccines were tried for over 15 years before Salk discovered his. And then there were two years from his discovery to mass distribution.
... this is a cosmically dumb comment. Medical research technique has changed for the better, improved. The mRNA technology is a game changer. The idea that vaccine development should take the same amount of time as in the 40s and 50s is ridiculous. A billion doses have been administered, to this point, the statistics are much better than need be to prove safety and effectiveness for final approval.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:20 am
Makary is a surgeon. Oncology and gastroenterology.
Not a public health scientist, not a virologist, not an infectious disease expert, not even a behavioral scientist.
A surgeon.
Anyone know some surgeons?
He's opining on topics entirely outside of his expertise and getting tons of attention. Undoubtedly a smart, accomplished surgeon, but that's it.
Being he's all that, you don't consider what he is saying as possibly correct? Or do you need a specific degree from a specific level of education in order to listen, consider, and then possibly proclaim correct?
Of course not.
I don't have those types of expertise and I like my "smart, accomplished" opinions just fine too!
Seriously, his opinion is not of an expert. Zero expertise in any field relevant to the questions at hand.
Which doesn't mean that his opinions couldn't possibly be correct, or at least some element...after all a broken clock is right twice a day.
But when someone who has no relevant expertise opines it should be given very little weight relative to the analyses of those who actually do have relevant expertise...btw, a virologist is not a behavioral scientist, so may not have the same answers as to how best to effect human behaviors...but the virologist can tell you how critical it is to indeed change human behaviors so as to fight how the virus spreads...it requires a combination of such expertise to reach the answers most likely to be correct.
A surgeon may have an enormous ego (every single surgeon I know has this quality!) but unlikely to have the relevant expertise to make their opinion actually more likely to be correct.
OK thanks, was just curious.
I mean, take Fauci... I don't know what his bona fides are (nor do I care) but his messaging and alleged actions throughout and leading up to this pandemic, have been a mess.
Just curious...if you know NADA about Fauci before the current situation as you claim, exactly how can you make such a critical statement/judgement about his expertise and knowledge of public health and virology?
How do you feel about Dr. Jonas Salk or Dr. Albert Sabin? Can we assume you took one of their vaccines for polio without any hesitancy or issue with their expertise?
Polio vaccines were tried for over 15 years before Salk discovered his. And then there were two years from his discovery to mass distribution.
... this is a cosmically dumb comment. Medical research technique has changed for the better, improved. The mRNA technology is a game changer. The idea that vaccine development should take the same amount of time as in the 40s and 50s is ridiculous. A billion doses have been administered, to this point, the statistics are much better than need be to prove safety and effectiveness for final approval.
Did you get the Johnson and Johnson vaccine?
... they were doing what you propose -- the old fashion way. It is still a pretty good vaccine, but pales compared to a vaccine developed around the mRNA toolkit.
and yes I would have taken it if it was all that had been available -- and things would have turned out just fine based on the known statistics. The biggest problem has been incompetent out sourced manufacturing, not vaccine design.
Last edited by jhu72 on Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:20 am
Makary is a surgeon. Oncology and gastroenterology.
Not a public health scientist, not a virologist, not an infectious disease expert, not even a behavioral scientist.
A surgeon.
Anyone know some surgeons?
He's opining on topics entirely outside of his expertise and getting tons of attention. Undoubtedly a smart, accomplished surgeon, but that's it.
Being he's all that, you don't consider what he is saying as possibly correct? Or do you need a specific degree from a specific level of education in order to listen, consider, and then possibly proclaim correct?
Of course not.
I don't have those types of expertise and I like my "smart, accomplished" opinions just fine too!
Seriously, his opinion is not of an expert. Zero expertise in any field relevant to the questions at hand.
Which doesn't mean that his opinions couldn't possibly be correct, or at least some element...after all a broken clock is right twice a day.
But when someone who has no relevant expertise opines it should be given very little weight relative to the analyses of those who actually do have relevant expertise...btw, a virologist is not a behavioral scientist, so may not have the same answers as to how best to effect human behaviors...but the virologist can tell you how critical it is to indeed change human behaviors so as to fight how the virus spreads...it requires a combination of such expertise to reach the answers most likely to be correct.
A surgeon may have an enormous ego (every single surgeon I know has this quality!) but unlikely to have the relevant expertise to make their opinion actually more likely to be correct.
OK thanks, was just curious.
I mean, take Fauci... I don't know what his bona fides are (nor do I care) but his messaging and alleged actions throughout and leading up to this pandemic, have been a mess.
Just curious...if you know NADA about Fauci before the current situation as you claim, exactly how can you make such a critical statement/judgement about his expertise and knowledge of public health and virology?
How do you feel about Dr. Jonas Salk or Dr. Albert Sabin? Can we assume you took one of their vaccines for polio without any hesitancy or issue with their expertise?
Polio vaccines were tried for over 15 years before Salk discovered his. And then there were two years from his discovery to mass distribution.
... this is a cosmically dumb comment. Medical research technique has changed for the better, improved. The mRNA technology is a game changer. The idea that vaccine development should take the same amount of time as in the 40s and 50s is ridiculous. A billion doses have been administered, to this point, the statistics are much better than need be to prove safety and effectiveness for final approval.
So jhu72 thinks kimet's question is dumb... oh well.
Makary's opinions are not looney tunes (like Ben Carson or Scott Atlas). He's fairly mainstream and has an MPH.
And he's quite pro-mask for schools actually. You just have to read all of what he actually says and not just rely on the headline/chyron/spin.
Which is that kids in schools should generally wear masks. But with some flex and common sense around kids that have issues with masks and/or in areas with low transmission rates.
So he would oppose blanket mandates -- for masks and also against masks. Let school districts do mandates on a local basis where needed and with whatever accomodations are needed for special cases..
"The co-author I wrote that piece with and I are very pro-mask as you know — I wrote the first piece calling for universal masking back in the Spring in the beginning of the pandemic. But it turns out kids, they’re very inefficient transmitters. Now the Delta variant is a bit of an unknown. So in areas with high levels of background infection, wearing a mask makes sense."
He's very pro-vaccine and pro-vaccine passports.
Personally, I go with whatever Osterholm and Gottlieb agree on.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:20 am
Makary is a surgeon. Oncology and gastroenterology.
Not a public health scientist, not a virologist, not an infectious disease expert, not even a behavioral scientist.
A surgeon.
Anyone know some surgeons?
He's opining on topics entirely outside of his expertise and getting tons of attention. Undoubtedly a smart, accomplished surgeon, but that's it.
Being he's all that, you don't consider what he is saying as possibly correct? Or do you need a specific degree from a specific level of education in order to listen, consider, and then possibly proclaim correct?
Of course not.
I don't have those types of expertise and I like my "smart, accomplished" opinions just fine too!
Seriously, his opinion is not of an expert. Zero expertise in any field relevant to the questions at hand.
Which doesn't mean that his opinions couldn't possibly be correct, or at least some element...after all a broken clock is right twice a day.
But when someone who has no relevant expertise opines it should be given very little weight relative to the analyses of those who actually do have relevant expertise...btw, a virologist is not a behavioral scientist, so may not have the same answers as to how best to effect human behaviors...but the virologist can tell you how critical it is to indeed change human behaviors so as to fight how the virus spreads...it requires a combination of such expertise to reach the answers most likely to be correct.
A surgeon may have an enormous ego (every single surgeon I know has this quality!) but unlikely to have the relevant expertise to make their opinion actually more likely to be correct.
OK thanks, was just curious.
I mean, take Fauci... I don't know what his bona fides are (nor do I care) but his messaging and alleged actions throughout and leading up to this pandemic, have been a mess.
Just curious...if you know NADA about Fauci before the current situation as you claim, exactly how can you make such a critical statement/judgement about his expertise and knowledge of public health and virology?
How do you feel about Dr. Jonas Salk or Dr. Albert Sabin? Can we assume you took one of their vaccines for polio without any hesitancy or issue with their expertise?
Polio vaccines were tried for over 15 years before Salk discovered his. And then there were two years from his discovery to mass distribution.
... this is a cosmically dumb comment. Medical research technique has changed for the better, improved. The mRNA technology is a game changer. The idea that vaccine development should take the same amount of time as in the 40s and 50s is ridiculous. A billion doses have been administered, to this point, the statistics are much better than need be to prove safety and effectiveness for final approval.
So jhu72 thinks kimet's question is dumb... oh well.
Funny but that's not what I took from the comment as I believe that 72's reference was to your reply on polio vaccines. He can certainly confirm if I am incorrect on that
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:20 am
Makary is a surgeon. Oncology and gastroenterology.
Not a public health scientist, not a virologist, not an infectious disease expert, not even a behavioral scientist.
A surgeon.
Anyone know some surgeons?
He's opining on topics entirely outside of his expertise and getting tons of attention. Undoubtedly a smart, accomplished surgeon, but that's it.
Being he's all that, you don't consider what he is saying as possibly correct? Or do you need a specific degree from a specific level of education in order to listen, consider, and then possibly proclaim correct?
Of course not.
I don't have those types of expertise and I like my "smart, accomplished" opinions just fine too!
Seriously, his opinion is not of an expert. Zero expertise in any field relevant to the questions at hand.
Which doesn't mean that his opinions couldn't possibly be correct, or at least some element...after all a broken clock is right twice a day.
But when someone who has no relevant expertise opines it should be given very little weight relative to the analyses of those who actually do have relevant expertise...btw, a virologist is not a behavioral scientist, so may not have the same answers as to how best to effect human behaviors...but the virologist can tell you how critical it is to indeed change human behaviors so as to fight how the virus spreads...it requires a combination of such expertise to reach the answers most likely to be correct.
A surgeon may have an enormous ego (every single surgeon I know has this quality!) but unlikely to have the relevant expertise to make their opinion actually more likely to be correct.
OK thanks, was just curious.
I mean, take Fauci... I don't know what his bona fides are (nor do I care) but his messaging and alleged actions throughout and leading up to this pandemic, have been a mess.
Just curious...if you know NADA about Fauci before the current situation as you claim, exactly how can you make such a critical statement/judgement about his expertise and knowledge of public health and virology?
How do you feel about Dr. Jonas Salk or Dr. Albert Sabin? Can we assume you took one of their vaccines for polio without any hesitancy or issue with their expertise?
Polio vaccines were tried for over 15 years before Salk discovered his. And then there were two years from his discovery to mass distribution.
... this is a cosmically dumb comment. Medical research technique has changed for the better, improved. The mRNA technology is a game changer. The idea that vaccine development should take the same amount of time as in the 40s and 50s is ridiculous. A billion doses have been administered, to this point, the statistics are much better than need be to prove safety and effectiveness for final approval.
So jhu72 thinks kimet's question is dumb... oh well.
Funny but that's not what I took from the comment as I believe that 72's reference was to your reply on polio vaccines. He can certainly confirm if I am incorrect on that
.... I understood your point perfectly, no problem with it. The response was squirrel and hence dumb. The other was dumb to the second power. I generally don't respond to dumb to a higher power.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:20 am
Makary is a surgeon. Oncology and gastroenterology.
Not a public health scientist, not a virologist, not an infectious disease expert, not even a behavioral scientist.
A surgeon.
Anyone know some surgeons?
He's opining on topics entirely outside of his expertise and getting tons of attention. Undoubtedly a smart, accomplished surgeon, but that's it.
Being he's all that, you don't consider what he is saying as possibly correct? Or do you need a specific degree from a specific level of education in order to listen, consider, and then possibly proclaim correct?
Of course not.
I don't have those types of expertise and I like my "smart, accomplished" opinions just fine too!
Seriously, his opinion is not of an expert. Zero expertise in any field relevant to the questions at hand.
Which doesn't mean that his opinions couldn't possibly be correct, or at least some element...after all a broken clock is right twice a day.
But when someone who has no relevant expertise opines it should be given very little weight relative to the analyses of those who actually do have relevant expertise...btw, a virologist is not a behavioral scientist, so may not have the same answers as to how best to effect human behaviors...but the virologist can tell you how critical it is to indeed change human behaviors so as to fight how the virus spreads...it requires a combination of such expertise to reach the answers most likely to be correct.
A surgeon may have an enormous ego (every single surgeon I know has this quality!) but unlikely to have the relevant expertise to make their opinion actually more likely to be correct.
OK thanks, was just curious.
I mean, take Fauci... I don't know what his bona fides are (nor do I care) but his messaging and alleged actions throughout and leading up to this pandemic, have been a mess.
Just curious...if you know NADA about Fauci before the current situation as you claim, exactly how can you make such a critical statement/judgement about his expertise and knowledge of public health and virology?
How do you feel about Dr. Jonas Salk or Dr. Albert Sabin? Can we assume you took one of their vaccines for polio without any hesitancy or issue with their expertise?
Polio vaccines were tried for over 15 years before Salk discovered his. And then there were two years from his discovery to mass distribution.
... this is a cosmically dumb comment. Medical research technique has changed for the better, improved. The mRNA technology is a game changer. The idea that vaccine development should take the same amount of time as in the 40s and 50s is ridiculous. A billion doses have been administered, to this point, the statistics are much better than need be to prove safety and effectiveness for final approval.
This was a good layman’s overview of mRNA vaccine development.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:20 am
Makary is a surgeon. Oncology and gastroenterology.
Not a public health scientist, not a virologist, not an infectious disease expert, not even a behavioral scientist.
A surgeon.
Anyone know some surgeons?
He's opining on topics entirely outside of his expertise and getting tons of attention. Undoubtedly a smart, accomplished surgeon, but that's it.
Being he's all that, you don't consider what he is saying as possibly correct? Or do you need a specific degree from a specific level of education in order to listen, consider, and then possibly proclaim correct?
Of course not.
I don't have those types of expertise and I like my "smart, accomplished" opinions just fine too!
Seriously, his opinion is not of an expert. Zero expertise in any field relevant to the questions at hand.
Which doesn't mean that his opinions couldn't possibly be correct, or at least some element...after all a broken clock is right twice a day.
But when someone who has no relevant expertise opines it should be given very little weight relative to the analyses of those who actually do have relevant expertise...btw, a virologist is not a behavioral scientist, so may not have the same answers as to how best to effect human behaviors...but the virologist can tell you how critical it is to indeed change human behaviors so as to fight how the virus spreads...it requires a combination of such expertise to reach the answers most likely to be correct.
A surgeon may have an enormous ego (every single surgeon I know has this quality!) but unlikely to have the relevant expertise to make their opinion actually more likely to be correct.
OK thanks, was just curious.
I mean, take Fauci... I don't know what his bona fides are (nor do I care) but his messaging and alleged actions throughout and leading up to this pandemic, have been a mess.
Just curious...if you know NADA about Fauci before the current situation as you claim, exactly how can you make such a critical statement/judgement about his expertise and knowledge of public health and virology?
How do you feel about Dr. Jonas Salk or Dr. Albert Sabin? Can we assume you took one of their vaccines for polio without any hesitancy or issue with their expertise?
Polio vaccines were tried for over 15 years before Salk discovered his. And then there were two years from his discovery to mass distribution.
... this is a cosmically dumb comment. Medical research technique has changed for the better, improved. The mRNA technology is a game changer. The idea that vaccine development should take the same amount of time as in the 40s and 50s is ridiculous. A billion doses have been administered, to this point, the statistics are much better than need be to prove safety and effectiveness for final approval.
This was a good layman’s overview of mRNA vaccine development.
... great explanation of mRNA tools to build a vaccine.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:20 am
Makary is a surgeon. Oncology and gastroenterology.
Not a public health scientist, not a virologist, not an infectious disease expert, not even a behavioral scientist.
A surgeon.
Anyone know some surgeons?
He's opining on topics entirely outside of his expertise and getting tons of attention. Undoubtedly a smart, accomplished surgeon, but that's it.
Being he's all that, you don't consider what he is saying as possibly correct? Or do you need a specific degree from a specific level of education in order to listen, consider, and then possibly proclaim correct?
Of course not.
I don't have those types of expertise and I like my "smart, accomplished" opinions just fine too!
Seriously, his opinion is not of an expert. Zero expertise in any field relevant to the questions at hand.
Which doesn't mean that his opinions couldn't possibly be correct, or at least some element...after all a broken clock is right twice a day.
But when someone who has no relevant expertise opines it should be given very little weight relative to the analyses of those who actually do have relevant expertise...btw, a virologist is not a behavioral scientist, so may not have the same answers as to how best to effect human behaviors...but the virologist can tell you how critical it is to indeed change human behaviors so as to fight how the virus spreads...it requires a combination of such expertise to reach the answers most likely to be correct.
A surgeon may have an enormous ego (every single surgeon I know has this quality!) but unlikely to have the relevant expertise to make their opinion actually more likely to be correct.
OK thanks, was just curious.
I mean, take Fauci... I don't know what his bona fides are (nor do I care) but his messaging and alleged actions throughout and leading up to this pandemic, have been a mess.
Well, actually you really should care about what Fauci's "bona fides" are. It matters. Nope. It matters in your world not mine.
Ok, in "your world", it doesn't matter what someone's training, experience and expertise is...
Explains a lot.
Sure, some of his communication has been confusing. I was very, very critical of the no need to wear a mask messaging early on, but it seemed pretty obvious, pretty quickly, that it was an effort to make sure the hospitals had enough PPE in the face of an Admin that was unwilling to put full resources behind testing and mask production, instead relying on "private" business.
Mistake IMO.
And it was clear that Fauci was being prevented from being the direct conduit of info, given the enormous ego of the POTUS. Mistake by POTUS.
But yeah, Fauci 's counsel is likely to be way, way better than Makary's. Based on his lousy record, including lies, I doubt that.
Lies???? Where you getting this crappola, tech?
"alleged actions"???? some sort of right wing anti-science tripe? or do you mean something else? "anti-science"... c'mon mdlax, that is such f'ing lame BS.
I dunno what else to call it, tech.
You see I have a question mark, so feel free to explain what sort of right wing source you think you have for "alleged actions"...is it QAnon-Like conspiracy theories? something else? Some other source who doesn't care about training, experience and expertise? What "alleged actions" do you mean?
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:20 am
Makary is a surgeon. Oncology and gastroenterology.
Not a public health scientist, not a virologist, not an infectious disease expert, not even a behavioral scientist.
A surgeon.
Anyone know some surgeons?
He's opining on topics entirely outside of his expertise and getting tons of attention. Undoubtedly a smart, accomplished surgeon, but that's it.
Being he's all that, you don't consider what he is saying as possibly correct? Or do you need a specific degree from a specific level of education in order to listen, consider, and then possibly proclaim correct?
Of course not.
I don't have those types of expertise and I like my "smart, accomplished" opinions just fine too!
Seriously, his opinion is not of an expert. Zero expertise in any field relevant to the questions at hand.
Which doesn't mean that his opinions couldn't possibly be correct, or at least some element...after all a broken clock is right twice a day.
But when someone who has no relevant expertise opines it should be given very little weight relative to the analyses of those who actually do have relevant expertise...btw, a virologist is not a behavioral scientist, so may not have the same answers as to how best to effect human behaviors...but the virologist can tell you how critical it is to indeed change human behaviors so as to fight how the virus spreads...it requires a combination of such expertise to reach the answers most likely to be correct.
A surgeon may have an enormous ego (every single surgeon I know has this quality!) but unlikely to have the relevant expertise to make their opinion actually more likely to be correct.
OK thanks, was just curious.
I mean, take Fauci... I don't know what his bona fides are (nor do I care) but his messaging and alleged actions throughout and leading up to this pandemic, have been a mess.
Just curious...if you know NADA about Fauci before the current situation as you claim, exactly how can you make such a critical statement/judgement about his expertise and knowledge of public health and virology?
How do you feel about Dr. Jonas Salk or Dr. Albert Sabin? Can we assume you took one of their vaccines for polio without any hesitancy or issue with their expertise?
Polio vaccines were tried for over 15 years before Salk discovered his. And then there were two years from his discovery to mass distribution.
... this is a cosmically dumb comment. Medical research technique has changed for the better, improved. The mRNA technology is a game changer. The idea that vaccine development should take the same amount of time as in the 40s and 50s is ridiculous. A billion doses have been administered, to this point, the statistics are much better than need be to prove safety and effectiveness for final approval.
This was a good layman’s overview of mRNA vaccine development.
... great explanation of mRNA tools to build a vaccine.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:20 am
Makary is a surgeon. Oncology and gastroenterology.
Not a public health scientist, not a virologist, not an infectious disease expert, not even a behavioral scientist.
A surgeon.
Anyone know some surgeons?
He's opining on topics entirely outside of his expertise and getting tons of attention. Undoubtedly a smart, accomplished surgeon, but that's it.
Being he's all that, you don't consider what he is saying as possibly correct? Or do you need a specific degree from a specific level of education in order to listen, consider, and then possibly proclaim correct?
Of course not.
I don't have those types of expertise and I like my "smart, accomplished" opinions just fine too!
Seriously, his opinion is not of an expert. Zero expertise in any field relevant to the questions at hand.
Which doesn't mean that his opinions couldn't possibly be correct, or at least some element...after all a broken clock is right twice a day.
But when someone who has no relevant expertise opines it should be given very little weight relative to the analyses of those who actually do have relevant expertise...btw, a virologist is not a behavioral scientist, so may not have the same answers as to how best to effect human behaviors...but the virologist can tell you how critical it is to indeed change human behaviors so as to fight how the virus spreads...it requires a combination of such expertise to reach the answers most likely to be correct.
A surgeon may have an enormous ego (every single surgeon I know has this quality!) but unlikely to have the relevant expertise to make their opinion actually more likely to be correct.
OK thanks, was just curious.
I mean, take Fauci... I don't know what his bona fides are (nor do I care) but his messaging and alleged actions throughout and leading up to this pandemic, have been a mess.
Just curious...if you know NADA about Fauci before the current situation as you claim, exactly how can you make such a critical statement/judgement about his expertise and knowledge of public health and virology?
How do you feel about Dr. Jonas Salk or Dr. Albert Sabin? Can we assume you took one of their vaccines for polio without any hesitancy or issue with their expertise?
Polio vaccines were tried for over 15 years before Salk discovered his. And then there were two years from his discovery to mass distribution.
... this is a cosmically dumb comment. Medical research technique has changed for the better, improved. The mRNA technology is a game changer. The idea that vaccine development should take the same amount of time as in the 40s and 50s is ridiculous. A billion doses have been administered, to this point, the statistics are much better than need be to prove safety and effectiveness for final approval.
This was a good layman’s overview of mRNA vaccine development.
... great explanation of mRNA tools to build a vaccine.
Yep. Clear and logical. No black magic to it. We are lucky that science has continued to advance. Scientific research is a mistake game. You learn from the mistakes. These mouth breathers love nothing more than saying “see, they were wrong”…..
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:20 am
Makary is a surgeon. Oncology and gastroenterology.
Not a public health scientist, not a virologist, not an infectious disease expert, not even a behavioral scientist.
A surgeon.
Anyone know some surgeons?
He's opining on topics entirely outside of his expertise and getting tons of attention. Undoubtedly a smart, accomplished surgeon, but that's it.
Being he's all that, you don't consider what he is saying as possibly correct? Or do you need a specific degree from a specific level of education in order to listen, consider, and then possibly proclaim correct?
Of course not.
I don't have those types of expertise and I like my "smart, accomplished" opinions just fine too!
Seriously, his opinion is not of an expert. Zero expertise in any field relevant to the questions at hand.
Which doesn't mean that his opinions couldn't possibly be correct, or at least some element...after all a broken clock is right twice a day.
But when someone who has no relevant expertise opines it should be given very little weight relative to the analyses of those who actually do have relevant expertise...btw, a virologist is not a behavioral scientist, so may not have the same answers as to how best to effect human behaviors...but the virologist can tell you how critical it is to indeed change human behaviors so as to fight how the virus spreads...it requires a combination of such expertise to reach the answers most likely to be correct.
A surgeon may have an enormous ego (every single surgeon I know has this quality!) but unlikely to have the relevant expertise to make their opinion actually more likely to be correct.
OK thanks, was just curious.
I mean, take Fauci... I don't know what his bona fides are (nor do I care) but his messaging and alleged actions throughout and leading up to this pandemic, have been a mess.
Well, actually you really should care about what Fauci's "bona fides" are. It matters. Nope. It matters in your world not mine.
Ok, in "your world", it doesn't matter what someone's training, experience and expertise is...
Explains a lot.
Sure, some of his communication has been confusing. I was very, very critical of the no need to wear a mask messaging early on, but it seemed pretty obvious, pretty quickly, that it was an effort to make sure the hospitals had enough PPE in the face of an Admin that was unwilling to put full resources behind testing and mask production, instead relying on "private" business.
Mistake IMO.
And it was clear that Fauci was being prevented from being the direct conduit of info, given the enormous ego of the POTUS. Mistake by POTUS.
But yeah, Fauci 's counsel is likely to be way, way better than Makary's. Based on his lousy record, including lies, I doubt that.
Lies???? Where you getting this crappola, tech?
"alleged actions"???? some sort of right wing anti-science tripe? or do you mean something else? "anti-science"... c'mon mdlax, that is such f'ing lame BS.
I dunno what else to call it, tech.
You see I have a question mark, so feel free to explain what sort of right wing source you think you have for "alleged actions"...is it QAnon-Like conspiracy theories? something else? Some other source who doesn't care about training, experience and expertise? What "alleged actions" do you mean?
Tech needs to see the Roots Man….thousands of people swear by these potions brewed up in the hills. Think medicinal moonshine.
ggait wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:36 am
Makary's opinions are not looney tunes (like Ben Carson or Scott Atlas). He's fairly mainstream and has an MPH.
And he's quite pro-mask for schools actually. You just have to read all of what he actually says and not just rely on the headline/chyron/spin.
Which is that kids in schools should generally wear masks. But with some flex and common sense around kids that have issues with masks and/or in areas with low transmission rates.
So he would oppose blanket mandates -- for masks and also against masks. Let school districts do mandates on a local basis where needed and with whatever accomodations are needed for special cases..
"The co-author I wrote that piece with and I are very pro-mask as you know — I wrote the first piece calling for universal masking back in the Spring in the beginning of the pandemic. But it turns out kids, they’re very inefficient transmitters. Now the Delta variant is a bit of an unknown. So in areas with high levels of background infection, wearing a mask makes sense."
He's very pro-vaccine and pro-vaccine passports.
Personally, I go with whatever Osterholm and Gottlieb agree on.
Agreed, but he's read by looney tunes as saying something adverse to masks and vaccinations.
And he does come across as opposed to actual requirements, even if his views are more nuanced than the readers want to think.
My issue is not as much with those nuances as it is with touting him as actually having any expertise in any of the relevant fields. This isn't the guy to be listening to on this topic...want surgery, different matter.
There was a brief news item this morning locally here in Boston. 100 fully vaccinated people have died from Covid-19 according to the Massachusetts Department of Public Health. The statement went on to say, “Many had underlying conditions.”
I’m curious as to why they were vague about the numbers. How many is “many”? And if the MDPH knew many, then why didn’t they report how many?
OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:53 am
There was a brief news item this morning locally here in Boston. 100 fully vaccinated people have died from Covid-19 according to the Massachusetts Department of Public Health. The statement went on to say, “Many had underlying conditions.”
I’m curious as to why they were vague about the numbers. How many is “many”? And if the MDPH knew many, then why didn’t they report how many?
