All Things Environment

[cradleandshoot]

Global Cooling on its way....https://twitter.com/DavidV5Goliath/stat ... 60261?s=20

Charctic Interactive Sea Ice Graph, On a comeback? https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/char ... ice-graph/

Nope.

#QFP

It looks like someone is a climate change denier.

[jhu72]

US number of kids per family is currently below the replacement rate. In1960 it was 2.33 kids per couple, it is now 1.93. This includes non-traditional couples with kids. This decline is taking place all over the world. It should start being really noticeable the second half of the 21st century. The following is an interesting 15 minute discussion.

Population Decline.

[PizzaSnake]

US number of kids per family is currently below the replacement rate. In1960 it was 2.33 kids per couple, it is now 1.93. This includes non-traditional couples with kids. This decline is taking place all over the world. It should start being really noticeable the second half of the 21st century. The following is an interesting 15 minute discussion.

Population Decline.

Good news because there goes the whole economic model based on every increasing "growth".

[jhu72]

US number of kids per family is currently below the replacement rate. In1960 it was 2.33 kids per couple, it is now 1.93. This includes non-traditional couples with kids. This decline is taking place all over the world. It should start being really noticeable the second half of the 21st century. The following is an interesting 15 minute discussion.

Population Decline.

Good news because there goes the whole economic model based on every increasing "growth".

Certainly a real opportunity to start getting things right. As a civilization we will screw it up. I have been preaching since forever that capitalism faces an existential crisis. It cannot recover without changing, adapting. Bitcoin will not save us.

[jhu72]

Climate change catches up with Lake Powell.

[jhu72]

Little off topic but highly interesting.

[PizzaSnake]

Whoops. Human engineering again meets its limits. This time: Chicago and the Chicago River.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... higan.html

[youthathletics]

Pay wall got me.

I still do not understand why we do not use desalination from ocean, bay, brackish waters. Yes, I understand the process, and the energy required to remove the salt, but is that not what technology is for, and is water not the most crucial aspect to life? The IDA talks a ton, but is never heard of or mentioned in the CC discussion. Could be a great place to pump some cash in the Biden Infrastructure bill?

Furthermore.... it would:
1, certainly 'slow' the rising sea-level
2. Take the burden off, and help replenish rivers, streams, aquifers, etc.
3. Provide more irrigation for crops and livestock
4. also help manufacturers that require mass quantity of water daily.

[PizzaSnake]

Pay wall got me.

I still do not understand why we do not use desalination from ocean, bay, brackish waters. Yes, I understand the process, and the energy required to remove the salt, but is that not what technology is for, and is water not the most crucial aspect to life? The IDA talks a ton, but is never heard of or mentioned in the CC discussion. Could be a great place to pump some cash in the Biden Infrastructure bill?

Furthermore.... it would:
1, certainly 'slow' the rising sea-level
2. Take the burden off, and help replenish rivers, streams, aquifers, etc.
3. Provide more irrigation for crops and livestock
4. also help manufacturers that require mass quantity of water daily.

The numbers do not agree with you — the amount we would remove from ocean is a “drop in thebucket”.

Also, lifting the water over the mountains is energy prohibitive.

No, the hydrology cycle was our friend, but no longer.

[youthathletics]

Pay wall got me.

I still do not understand why we do not use desalination from ocean, bay, brackish waters. Yes, I understand the process, and the energy required to remove the salt, but is that not what technology is for, and is water not the most crucial aspect to life? The IDA talks a ton, but is never heard of or mentioned in the CC discussion. Could be a great place to pump some cash in the Biden Infrastructure bill?

Furthermore.... it would:
1, certainly 'slow' the rising sea-level
2. Take the burden off, and help replenish rivers, streams, aquifers, etc.
3. Provide more irrigation for crops and livestock
4. also help manufacturers that require mass quantity of water daily.

The numbers do not agree with you — the amount we would remove from ocean is a “drop in thebucket”.

Also, lifting the water over the mountains is energy prohibitive.

No, the hydrology cycle was our friend, but no longer.

Our resident chicken little embarrassing. Who said pump the water over a mountain....

[MDlaxfan76]

Pay wall got me.

I still do not understand why we do not use desalination from ocean, bay, brackish waters. Yes, I understand the process, and the energy required to remove the salt, but is that not what technology is for, and is water not the most crucial aspect to life? The IDA talks a ton, but is never heard of or mentioned in the CC discussion. Could be a great place to pump some cash in the Biden Infrastructure bill?

Furthermore.... it would:
1, certainly 'slow' the rising sea-level
2. Take the burden off, and help replenish rivers, streams, aquifers, etc.
3. Provide more irrigation for crops and livestock
4. also help manufacturers that require mass quantity of water daily.

The numbers do not agree with you — the amount we would remove from ocean is a “drop in thebucket”.

Also, lifting the water over the mountains is energy prohibitive.

No, the hydrology cycle was our friend, but no longer.

Our resident chicken little embarrassing. Who said pump the water over a mountain....

The tone of your question was appropriate.
Your response to the answer is not.

1) no, it would not slow rising seas (drop in the bucket is correct).
2) yes, it would be a positive relative to diverting rivers, streams, etc.
3) yes, good for irrigation.
4) yes, good for manufacturers.

However, tremendous energy is necessary to desalinate (is that carbon or nuclear?...what are those costs to the environment?)

And it doesn't address drought situations distances away, without tremendous energy..."over mountains" being just one example. There's a reason why we don't pump water from water rich regions of the country to the drought stricken areas.

If we could somehow pair solar energy with desalination, maybe that'd be the answer...but we don't have that as yet.

Meanwhile, we need to figure out how to use far less water to produce crops, meat, manufacture, etc and adjust our expectations on personal, household water usage in those areas.

[youthathletics]

Pay wall got me.

I still do not understand why we do not use desalination from ocean, bay, brackish waters. Yes, I understand the process, and the energy required to remove the salt, but is that not what technology is for, and is water not the most crucial aspect to life? The IDA talks a ton, but is never heard of or mentioned in the CC discussion. Could be a great place to pump some cash in the Biden Infrastructure bill?

Furthermore.... it would:
1, certainly 'slow' the rising sea-level
2. Take the burden off, and help replenish rivers, streams, aquifers, etc.
3. Provide more irrigation for crops and livestock
4. also help manufacturers that require mass quantity of water daily.

The numbers do not agree with you — the amount we would remove from ocean is a “drop in thebucket”.

Also, lifting the water over the mountains is energy prohibitive.

No, the hydrology cycle was our friend, but no longer.

Our resident chicken little embarrassing. Who said pump the water over a mountain....

The tone of your question was appropriate.
Your response to the answer is not.

1) no, it would not slow rising seas (drop in the bucket is correct).
2) yes, it would be a positive relative to diverting rivers, streams, etc.
3) yes, good for irrigation.
4) yes, good for manufacturers.

However, tremendous energy is necessary to desalinate (is that carbon or nuclear?...what are those costs to the environment?)

And it doesn't address drought situations distances away, without tremendous energy..."over mountains" being just one example. There's a reason why we don't pump water from water rich regions of the country to the drought stricken areas.

If we could somehow pair solar energy with desalination, maybe that'd be the answer...but we don't have that as yet.

Meanwhile, we need to figure out how to use far less water to produce crops, meat, manufacture, etc and adjust our expectations on personal, household water usage in those areas.

your reply said absolutely nothing and only regurgitated your partner in crimes post, all while you read a quick snapshot of the topic in a 30 second google search.

Zero vision and zero confidence in our engineering prowess you clearly have. Drop in a bucket...., and that is exactly the point. Drops in the bucket turn in to buckets that get full. It’s not an immediate resolve it is perpetual.....you know, like the argument that our temperatures are SLOWLY melting....killing the polar bears.

[PizzaSnake]

Pay wall got me.

I still do not understand why we do not use desalination from ocean, bay, brackish waters. Yes, I understand the process, and the energy required to remove the salt, but is that not what technology is for, and is water not the most crucial aspect to life? The IDA talks a ton, but is never heard of or mentioned in the CC discussion. Could be a great place to pump some cash in the Biden Infrastructure bill?

Furthermore.... it would:
1, certainly 'slow' the rising sea-level
2. Take the burden off, and help replenish rivers, streams, aquifers, etc.
3. Provide more irrigation for crops and livestock
4. also help manufacturers that require mass quantity of water daily.

The numbers do not agree with you — the amount we would remove from ocean is a “drop in thebucket”.

Also, lifting the water over the mountains is energy prohibitive.

No, the hydrology cycle was our friend, but no longer.

Our resident chicken little embarrassing. Who said pump the water over a mountain....

Uh, measure the elevation difference between sources of seawater or brackish water and chart the change in elevation to areas that need the water, Pollyanna.

[MDlaxfan76]

Pay wall got me.

I still do not understand why we do not use desalination from ocean, bay, brackish waters. Yes, I understand the process, and the energy required to remove the salt, but is that not what technology is for, and is water not the most crucial aspect to life? The IDA talks a ton, but is never heard of or mentioned in the CC discussion. Could be a great place to pump some cash in the Biden Infrastructure bill?

Furthermore.... it would:
1, certainly 'slow' the rising sea-level
2. Take the burden off, and help replenish rivers, streams, aquifers, etc.
3. Provide more irrigation for crops and livestock
4. also help manufacturers that require mass quantity of water daily.

The numbers do not agree with you — the amount we would remove from ocean is a “drop in thebucket”.

Also, lifting the water over the mountains is energy prohibitive.

No, the hydrology cycle was our friend, but no longer.

Our resident chicken little embarrassing. Who said pump the water over a mountain....

The tone of your question was appropriate.
Your response to the answer is not.

1) no, it would not slow rising seas (drop in the bucket is correct).
2) yes, it would be a positive relative to diverting rivers, streams, etc.
3) yes, good for irrigation.
4) yes, good for manufacturers.

However, tremendous energy is necessary to desalinate (is that carbon or nuclear?...what are those costs to the environment?)

And it doesn't address drought situations distances away, without tremendous energy..."over mountains" being just one example. There's a reason why we don't pump water from water rich regions of the country to the drought stricken areas.

If we could somehow pair solar energy with desalination, maybe that'd be the answer...but we don't have that as yet.

Meanwhile, we need to figure out how to use far less water to produce crops, meat, manufacture, etc and adjust our expectations on personal, household water usage in those areas.

your reply said absolutely nothing and only regurgitated your partner in crimes post, all while you read a quick snapshot of the topic in a 30 second google search.

Zero vision and zero confidence in our engineering prowess you clearly have. Drop in a bucket...., and that is exactly the point. Drops in the bucket turn in to buckets that get full. It’s not an immediate resolve it is perpetual.....you know, like the argument that our temperatures are SLOWLY melting....killing the polar bears.

No, I didn't use google at all.
I know a little bit about the topic, certainly not an expert though.

Again, your tone is misplaced.
I've spent 40 years of my life in high technology investing; I'm confident that desalination solutions, that make sense, can and ultimately will be developed.

Note, I responded positively to 3 of 4 of your points. And certainly it would be great to get desalination to the point at which it actually would be an effective answer.

Absolutely agree. But spending many billions on building plants with current technology makes no sense. Counter productive in reality.

Want to spend billions on R&D on how to make it work?
I'm 100% in favor.
Got a technology solution that's close and needs pilot plants that could drive experience curve effects?
ok, fund them.

It would be a game changer. Sooner the better.

But that's not what you were asking.

And, meanwhile I also have confidence in technology solutions that address water usage in our highest usage applications. Very important to fund and drive implementation of the best of these as well.

[PizzaSnake]

"Congratulations, free market evangelists: this is the system you have built. It doesn’t work. I don’t want to lean too heavily on the touchy-feely, Gaia-esque interpretation of global warming as the inevitable wounds of an omniscient Mother Earth, but you must admit that viewing humanity and its pollution as a malicious virus set to be eradicated by nature is now a fairly compelling metaphor. Homo sapiens rose above the lesser animals thanks to our ability to wield logic and reason, yet we have somehow gotten ourselves to a place where the knowledge of what is driving all these wildfires and floods is not enough to enable us to do anything meaningful to stop it. The keystone experience of global capitalism is to gape at a drought-fueled fire as it consumes your home, and then go buy a bigger SUV to console yourself."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... t-politics

and

"But what if we’ve hit the limit of our capacity to get along? I don’t mean in the Mister Rogers way. I’m not talking about the tenor of our politics. My concern is more fundamental: Are we capable as a species of coordinating our actions at a scale necessary to address the most dire problems we face?"

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/04/opin ... on=Opinion

[jhu72]

the Amazon jungle has reached the point where it has been turned into a carbon source, rather than a carbon sink.

[PizzaSnake]

Here's a thoughtful article. Has it's flaws, of course, but pretty broad in scope.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/03/us/c ... aland.html

Pretty substantial assumption about continued agriculutural production in the face of wildly variant weather.

[PizzaSnake]

More grist for the mill.

https://thereader.mitpress.mit.edu/cent ... hropocene/

"If we think about science fiction (sf) in terms of the genre’s connections to pressing issues in 21st-century culture, no topic is more urgent than climate change and the ways it promises to transform all aspects of human life, from where we live to how we cultivate our food to what energy sources will fuel our industries.

The issue is so pressing that some have started to use the term “cli-fi” for climate fiction — but this faddish coinage obscures a longer history of sf’s engagement with the environment and leaves unexamined the question of why sf has proven such a valuable genre for thinking about environmental futures. Even before the idea of climate change took hold, the genre embraced the geological and evolutionary timescales of 19th-century science and began to think of the planet as something that preceded our species and could conceivably continue without us. Such conceptualizations of the planet as a changeable environment turned the tradition of apocalyptic fiction toward mundane visions of environmental catastrophe instead of divine judgment."

[jhu72]

Bird feeder removal is suggested.

[PizzaSnake]

Now this would make things really interesting.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate- ... eridional/

"But the new analysis, published Thursday in the journal Nature Climate Change, draws on more than a century of ocean temperature and salinity data to show significant changes in eight indirect measures of the circulation’s strength.

These indicators suggest that the AMOC is running out of steam, making it more susceptible to disruptions that might knock it out of equilibrium, said study author Niklas Boers, a researcher at the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research in Germany.

If the circulation shuts down, it could bring extreme cold to Europe and parts of North America, raise sea levels along the U.S. East Coast and disrupt seasonal monsoons that provide water to much of the world.

“This is an increase in understanding … of how close to a tipping point the AMOC might already be,” said Levke Caesar, a climate physicist at Maynooth University who was not involved in the study."