Johns Hopkins 2022

[wgdsr]

Because DeSimone was better there. And this staff unlike the last seems to actually evaluate players every week and is willing to make changes.

Yep, DeSimone had a better personal year.

But now you know why Benson put him at middie, right?

Did Hopkins win more, or fewer games with DeSimone at attack?

I’m sorry to say this, but your posts are getting as nonsensical as Peter Brown’s or RRR’s. Just a random string of text ….

Sad.

DocBarrister

uh oh. hopkins life sciences undergrad alert.

[Sagittarius A*]

Well, I was glad to see they finally changed the shot clock reset to 60 seconds.
The 80 second reset made no sense because 20 seconds are for clearing.
There's no need for clearing the ball after a pipe shot.
This should speed up the game a bit.
I'm sure JK is scheming up 60 sec reset defenses right now as you read this post.

[Sagittarius A*]

Because DeSimone was better there. And this staff unlike the last seems to actually evaluate players every week and is willing to make changes.

Yep, DeSimone had a better personal year.

But now you know why Benson put him at middie, right?

Did Hopkins win more, or fewer games with DeSimone at attack?

When DeSo was a frosh, the attack was pretty stacked with Shack, Marr, and Williams. So they put him at midfield where he flourished with Tinney feeding him the ball. After Shack graduated they could have moved him back to attack. To know exactly why Petro and Benson decided not to do that you would probably have to ask them.

[51percentcorn]

But now you know why Benson put him at middie, right?

Did Hopkins win more, or fewer games with DeSimone at attack?

I kind of agree with Sag - will wonders never cease. Surprised 'fan at the jab - given you are a talent first guy - If your point is that Petro/Benson played the best 3 guys at attack and therefore Hopkins did the best they could - I would counter with a few things. First, yes the '18 team was by galaxies the most talented offensively in the time Deso has been here. Tinney/Shack/Fraser/ Valis - no acccident that '18 was also the best statistical years for Marr and Williams I believe by a fair margin. So as sometimes is the case - a freshman attackman has to play some middie - e.g. Ryan Brown - because there are seniors/juniors etc. ahead. The question is then - IMO - would Hopkins record have been better/same/worse than 8-8 in '19 if DeSo had not put on 15+ lbs and was tasked with being a top of the heap middie. I believe I tried to argue at the time that Marr was better suited to go over to middie but as a senior no way that was going to happen. Bottom line was that no matter what - with Smith/Concannon/Baskin and Keogh - along with a freshman Zinn and Stagnitta (2 goals) one of the smallest and poorest performing Hopkins mid-fields was in the offing. So is 10-12 (post Tinney and Shack) better than 4-9? Of course it is. Is it quite possible that with a fall/an uninterrupted spring practice/hell the coaches just being able to meet their new players in person before January the '21 season could have been at or better than 8-8 (the 2019 record)? Also yes. In addition, I do believe - if the 2020 season had continued - a season worse than 4-9 was very possible.

Then there is specifically 2020 - you went into the season knowing Epstein was not going to be 100% - so Williams was your only known healthy commodity at attack. Your candidates - that actually played at at attack - were Murphy/Smith and Baskin with kind of a sprinkling of Degnon between attack and middie (but he is essentially the same player either way) - I might have given DeSo a try.

[a fan]

Because DeSimone was better there. And this staff unlike the last seems to actually evaluate players every week and is willing to make changes.

Yep, DeSimone had a better personal year.

But now you know why Benson put him at middie, right?

Did Hopkins win more, or fewer games with DeSimone at attack?

I’m sorry to say this, but your posts are getting as nonsensical as Peter Brown’s or RRR’s. Just a random string of text ….

Sad.

DocBarrister

Sure, let's pretend you know more about Division I lacrosse than Bob Benson. And I'm just insane for thinking that Benson might know what he's doing.

They put him at middie because it gave them a kid who could dodge AND PASS up top... which gave them a more dynamic offense, and more freaking wins. Did you notice that DeSimone finished third in assists on the team in 2020, Doc? Got the D moving, and moved the ball?

Newsflash: coaches all over D1 run attackmen up top for just this reason. Did any of you Monday morning quarterbacks complain when Milliman put attackman Grimes at Middie? Whoops, you all forgot to do that. It's almost as if these D1 coaches know what they are doing, and you fans can't keep your complaints straight.

Any bets on whether Grimes would score more at attack than he did at middie? Gee.....ya think? Would that mean that Milliman was "wrong" to put Grimes at middy in 2021?

But sure. Keep telling us that Benson was wrong about where to play DeSimone, and you have it all figured out, and that I'm insane for pointing out why Benson did what he did.

[a fan]

But now you know why Benson put him at middie, right?

Did Hopkins win more, or fewer games with DeSimone at attack?

I kind of agree with Sag - will wonders never cease. Surprised 'fan at the jab - given you are a talent first guy - If your point is that Petro/Benson played the best 3 guys at attack and therefore Hopkins did the best they could

My point is that Benson put out the best players he could to win. And his choices outperformed your new coach....which makes it, at the very least, a bit funny to try and argue that Benson was wrong, and your new coach is right.

As for the rest of your middie candidates...respectfully, you're forgetting that whomever you throw out there at middie is going to have to play defense sometimes. Who's your best defender out of those players you listed?

My money is that DeSimone was less of a liability on D. I could be wrong, of course.

My overall point? Benson knows more about lacrosse than the rest of us have forgotten. And he played the hand he was dealt as best as he could....and outperformed your current coach.

[stupefied]

Wasn't Desimone a middle at Smithtown East and wasnt that the position he played on circuit and was recruited for? Recall Xanders writeup saying that he was a middle who could eventually be an attackman . Dont think Benson played him out of position especially given personnel and Millamn didnt suddenly discover his true position . Agree with poster who more or less said that sometimes a player's intangibles are more valuable to a team success at a position despite lesser stats .

[wgdsr]

Wasn't Desimone a middle at Smithtown East and wasnt that the position he played on circuit and was recruited for? Recall Xanders writeup saying that he was a middle who could eventually be an attackman . Dont think Benson played him out of position especially given personnel and Millamn didnt suddenly discover his true position . Agree with poster who more or less said that sometimes a player's intangibles are more valuable to a team success at a position despite lesser stats .

well, yeah on recruiting. but that was in 8th-9th grade. here's connor committing prior to his 9th grade spring:
http://www.laxlessons.com/2013/12/22/co ... town-east/
didn't recall joe robertson also committing to the hop.
here's connor moving down to attack as a junior:
https://fanlax.com/2018/01/25/recruitin ... 7-top-100/
here's connor going back to attack:
https://www.usalaxmagazine.com/college/ ... r-desimone
so he would be a guy that had more experience there than many other converted attackmen. matt moore did something similar.

[stupefied]

Pertinent info. You are either a serial googler, a crazed Hopkins fan or CD's father.

Aside from rank or misses . Impressive how recruiting rundown/il correctly tabs so many future college starters.

[HopFan16]

But now you know why Benson put him at middie, right?

Did Hopkins win more, or fewer games with DeSimone at attack?

I kind of agree with Sag - will wonders never cease. Surprised 'fan at the jab - given you are a talent first guy - If your point is that Petro/Benson played the best 3 guys at attack and therefore Hopkins did the best they could

My point is that Benson put out the best players he could to win. And his choices outperformed your new coach....which makes it, at the very least, a bit funny to try and argue that Benson was wrong, and your new coach is right.

As for the rest of your middie candidates...respectfully, you're forgetting that whomever you throw out there at middie is going to have to play defense sometimes. Who's your best defender out of those players you listed?

My money is that DeSimone was less of a liability on D. I could be wrong, of course.

My overall point? Benson knows more about lacrosse than the rest of us have forgotten. And he played the hand he was dealt as best as he could....and outperformed your current coach.

Wait so now a coach’s choices can outperform another’s? I thought that wasn’t possible.

[DocBarrister]

Because DeSimone was better there. And this staff unlike the last seems to actually evaluate players every week and is willing to make changes.

Yep, DeSimone had a better personal year.

But now you know why Benson put him at middie, right?

Did Hopkins win more, or fewer games with DeSimone at attack?

I’m sorry to say this, but your posts are getting as nonsensical as Peter Brown’s or RRR’s. Just a random string of text ….

Sad.

DocBarrister

Sure, let's pretend you know more about Division I lacrosse than Bob Benson. And I'm just insane for thinking that Benson might know what he's doing.

They put him at middie because it gave them a kid who could dodge AND PASS up top... which gave them a more dynamic offense, and more freaking wins. Did you notice that DeSimone finished third in assists on the team in 2020, Doc? Got the D moving, and moved the ball?

Newsflash: coaches all over D1 run attackmen up top for just this reason. Did any of you Monday morning quarterbacks complain when Milliman put attackman Grimes at Middie? Whoops, you all forgot to do that. It's almost as if these D1 coaches know what they are doing, and you fans can't keep your complaints straight.

Any bets on whether Grimes would score more at attack than he did at middie? Gee.....ya think? Would that mean that Milliman was "wrong" to put Grimes at middy in 2021?

But sure. Keep telling us that Benson was wrong about where to play DeSimone, and you have it all figured out, and that I'm insane for pointing out why Benson did what he did.

See, THAT post makes sense.

The cryptic stream-of-consciousness haiku that you posted earlier? Not so much.

DocBarrister

[a fan]

But now you know why Benson put him at middie, right?

Did Hopkins win more, or fewer games with DeSimone at attack?

I kind of agree with Sag - will wonders never cease. Surprised 'fan at the jab - given you are a talent first guy - If your point is that Petro/Benson played the best 3 guys at attack and therefore Hopkins did the best they could

My point is that Benson put out the best players he could to win. And his choices outperformed your new coach....which makes it, at the very least, a bit funny to try and argue that Benson was wrong, and your new coach is right.

As for the rest of your middie candidates...respectfully, you're forgetting that whomever you throw out there at middie is going to have to play defense sometimes. Who's your best defender out of those players you listed?

My money is that DeSimone was less of a liability on D. I could be wrong, of course.

My overall point? Benson knows more about lacrosse than the rest of us have forgotten. And he played the hand he was dealt as best as he could....and outperformed your current coach.

Wait so now a coach’s choices can outperform another’s? I thought that wasn’t possible.

Touche. Well, sort of....or at least the comment was funny.

But you're moving the goalposts. A coach's choices can indeed make the difference between 4-9 and 8-8, as is the case here. I've never argued that.

But a coach's choices won't take that 8-8 team to the FInal Four consistently, which is where the goalposts are for this year long conversation.

[51percentcorn]

I've posted the links before - all it takes is to go to youtube and search for Connor Desimone Junior and Senior year highlights - he is an X attackman pure and simple - yes he maybe had to play midfield early on in high school but by the time he was a Top 5 recruit - at one time #2 behind Matt Moore it was due to his work at attack.

Yes Benson knows alot more about lacrosse than I do - oceans more. But he is not infallible - no one is. DeSimone's statistics as a first line middie in all 16 Hopkins games in '19 - 4 goals and 13 assists - 11% shooting percentage. I wouldn't know if the research exists readily but that stat line can't be far from the worst in DI for a consistent first line starter. The story line is simple - on attack they had the #1 recruit coming in - they had a junior and senior returning in Williams and Marr coming off 50 point seasons and the mid-field was an absolute dumpster fire. So they told their prized recruit from the prior year to put on 15 lbs and try to become the #1 middie on the #1 line and deal with the onslaught of big athletic LSMs. He lost all his quickness - still didn't have enough size and his confidence caught a quick bus out of town. It failed miserably - doesn't have anything to do with what someone knows or doesn't know - maybe they had to do it but it did not serve that kid well.

Comparing 10-12 to 4-9 with the extenuating circumstances and simply saying "this coaching staff didn't do as well as the prior" and offer that as proof that the prior staff did the right thing is grossly unfair IMO. Maybe it was - but there's just as good a chance maybe it wasn't

[a fan]

Comparing 10-12 to 4-9 with the extenuating circumstances and simply saying "this coaching staff didn't do as well as the prior" and offer that as proof that the prior staff did the right thing is grossly unfair IMO.

And yet that's precisely what you did, except you're criticizing the old staff. And I take it you think that only the new staff gets your "extenuating circumstances" excuse when it comes to gauging their performance? Because you obviously have no problem telling me that your old staff "failed miserably" in putting DeSimone at middy.

Look, all I said was that you should now understand why Benson put DeSimone at midfield. And the kid got a point a game...do yourself a favor, and take a look year and stats for most D1 teams. You'll find that the #6 player in points gets right around 1 point per game.

But that still misses the point. Putting DeSimone at middy gave Hopkins another point of attack, which gave them another goal per game, and four more wins. 13 assists was 3rd most on the team. That tells me he was effective at getting the D moving, and hitting the open man.

And yes, you can tell me it was "something else" that led to 4 more wins all day long.

And all that I'll do is point at the scoreboard at 4 more wins, and tell you, yet again, "you can understand WHY Benson put Desimone at Middy". And kudos, btw, to DeSimone for doing what was best for the team.

The story line is simple - on attack they had the #1 recruit coming in - they had a junior and senior returning in Williams and Marr coming off 50 point seasons and the mid-field was an absolute dumpster fire. So they told their prized recruit from the prior year to put on 15 lbs and try to become the #1 middie on the #1 line and deal with the onslaught of big athletic LSMs. He lost all his quickness - still didn't have enough size and his confidence caught a quick bus out of town. It failed miserably

This is the part where you lose me completely. Benson's job wasn't to give DeSimone swell stats. His job was to win games.

If an 8-8 season means that Benson's choices "failed miserably"....What the heck do you have to say about Grant Jr.s choices that gave you a 4-8 season?

Come on, man. A tee tiny sliver of objectivity wouldn't kill you.

[51percentcorn]

Well the old staff had a fall practice in 2019, an uninterrupted Spring in 2020 and 1/2/3/4 years of experience with the team depending upon the class and they got their fannies waxed on a routine basis before the shutdown so yeah I think the extenuating circumstances lean heavily towards the new staff

I would like Hopkins to be at least a quarterfinalist some of the time - here's the stats for the quarterfinalists this past year and their 6th leading scorer and oh by the way - DeSimone was Tied for 6th leading point producer with Baskin

UVA - Garno 22/3
Terps - Fairman 19/7
Duke - Caputo 20/5
UNC - Kelly 20/11
ND - McCahon 14/9
GT - Watson 22/3

Only Riley (Loyola) had the same number of points (still scored 10 more goals) and Ross had fewer points (still scored 9 goals) but we all know who was going to take the shots for Rutgers - Ross only took 32 shots

Vast majority of these look alot different than 4/13 to me

The point also could have been in 2019 - Marr was arguably better for the middie roll with his shooting range and the fact that he doesn't carry the ball - you would have been better prepared for 2020 and beyond when Marr was no longer there.

So if Hopkins goes 10-3 next year - wins the BIG and wins a first round game - Not saying anything like that is going to happen but it's possible (2011 following 2010) they are 13-4 does that change anything in this equation? Of course it doesn't. But apparently to you it would because 17-13 is better than 10-12

I completely understand why they played him where they did - but it could have been a mistake - maybe they beat Ohio State and others if DeSimone was at attack - never know

[a fan]

Well the old staff had a fall practice in 2019, an uninterrupted Spring in 2020 and 1/2/3/4 years of experience with the team depending upon the class and they got their fannies waxed on a routine basis before the shutdown so yeah I think the extenuating circumstances lean heavily towards the new staff

Just like all the other teams that the new staff played against....or doesn't that count? Every opponent dealt with the same situation.

I would like Hopkins to be at least a quarterfinalist some of the time - here's the stats for the quarterfinalists this past year and their 6th leading scorer and oh by the way - DeSimone was Tied for 6th leading point producer with Baskin

UVA - Garno 22/3
Terps - Fairman 19/7
Duke - Caputo 20/5
UNC - Kelly 20/11
ND - McCahon 14/9
GT - Watson 22/3

Only Riley (Loyola) had the same number of points (still scored 10 more goals) and Ross had fewer points (still scored 9 goals) but we all know who was going to take the shots for Rutgers - Ross only took 32 shots

Vast majority of these look alot different than 4/13 to me

So cherry pick top teams, and hold Benson to that standard? Okay. Let's hold Milliman to this standard.

2021 Hopkins 6th leading scorer- Keogh 3/8 . That's worse than DeSimone and his "complete failure" at middy, is it not?

So what do you say to that?

The point also could have been in 2019 - Marr was arguably better for the middie roll with his shooting range and the fact that he doesn't carry the ball - you would have been better prepared for 2020 and beyond when Marr was no longer there.

Yep. And what happens when Marr plays D? Sawbuck says that you and your fellow fans would have been all over your coaches if Marr was a pylon on D.

So if Hopkins goes 10-3 next year - wins the BIG and wins a first round game - Not saying anything like that is going to happen but it's possible (2011 following 2010) they are 13-4 does that change anything in this equation?

No. Because now Milliman is playing an entirely different roster.

Milliman made his choices with a fairly similar roster (until the end of the year), and won four games. You're not holding your coaches to this same standard. Food for thought.

I completely understand why they played him where they did - but it could have been a mistake

There's a mile between this statement, and you claiming that putting DeSimone at middy "failed miserably" .

My reaction is to the latter. If you're sticking to your above quote? We're in agreement. Enjoy your weekend.

[51percentcorn]

Just like all the other teams that the new staff played against....or doesn't that count? Every opponent dealt with the same situation.

False. You're cherry picking a Hopkins season where the coaches never saw the players in person until January - Except for any other team that switched coaching staffs between 20 and 21 - it was NOT the same. Plus Hopkins and the state of Maryland had very conservative protocols - see jhuo6 posts - and they had to stop practice for a week until te WaWA situation was resolved.

Let's hold Milliman to this standard.

I do or will - You did say "most teams" I didn't think you were referring to Detroit Mercy or Cleveland State. In the next one or two years Hopkins should be in the conversation for making the 1/4s at least but in my mind he not only gets a pass for '21 he gets some cred for holding that team together - yes they had way too many 4th quarter collapses but that's a team with a new system taking baby steps learning how to win and they always played hard

2021 Hopkins 6th leading scorer- Keogh 3/8 . That's worse than DeSimone and his "complete failure" at middy, is it not?

I would say Keogh is a player coming off an ACL in 2020 that re-injured his leg and didn't even play in the 13 games last season and when he did play could not move well. Alot different then a returning first line player that played virtually every second on the first line again in '19.

Yep. And what happens when Marr plays D? Sawbuck says that you and your fellow fans would have been all over your coaches if Marr was a pylon on D.

Marr used to routinely run back on D because he was up top alot of times trying to get his left hand shot off. I've never seen a single post in this day and age of specialization taking an offensive middie to task for defensive play. I would bet many sawbucks the defensive performance of DeSimone vs Marr was likely negligible.

No. Because now Milliman is playing an entirely different roster.

Milliman made his choices with a fairly similar roster (until the end of the year), and won four games. You're not holding your coaches to this same standard. Food for thought.

My food for thought is that Milliman never coached these guys before and Petro and Benson were headed for possible the worst full season since '71 in 2020 before the pandemic - so with the most completely similar rosters - the outcome was virtually identical 2-4 (33%) 4-9 (30%).

There's a mile between this statement, and you claiming that putting DeSimone at middy "failed miserably" .

Stand by both statements. 4 and 13 is not a good season for a 1st line middie - let alone a consistent top 5 recruit and one time #2 ranked recruit in the entire country- along with 11% shooting - no one is going to tell you that. The decision to have him bulk up failed - miserably.

Enjoy

[DocBarrister]

Just like all the other teams that the new staff played against....or doesn't that count? Every opponent dealt with the same situation.

False. You're cherry picking a Hopkins season where the coaches never saw the players in person until January - Except for any other team that switched coaching staffs between 20 and 21 - it was NOT the same. Plus Hopkins and the state of Maryland had very conservative protocols - see jhuo6 posts - and they had to stop practice for a week until te WaWA situation was resolved.

Let's hold Milliman to this standard.

I do or will - You did say "most teams" I didn't think you were referring to Detroit Mercy or Cleveland State. In the next one or two years Hopkins should be in the conversation for making the 1/4s at least but in my mind he not only gets a pass for '21 he gets some cred for holding that team together - yes they had way too many 4th quarter collapses but that's a team with a new system taking baby steps learning how to win and they always played hard

2021 Hopkins 6th leading scorer- Keogh 3/8 . That's worse than DeSimone and his "complete failure" at middy, is it not?

I would say Keogh is a player coming off an ACL in 2020 that re-injured his leg and didn't even play in the 13 games last season and when he did play could not move well. Alot different then a returning first line player that played virtually every second on the first line again in '19.

Yep. And what happens when Marr plays D? Sawbuck says that you and your fellow fans would have been all over your coaches if Marr was a pylon on D.

Marr used to routinely run back on D because he was up top alot of times trying to get his left hand shot off. I've never seen a single post in this day and age of specialization taking an offensive middie to task for defensive play. I would bet many sawbucks the defensive performance of DeSimone vs Marr was likely negligible.

No. Because now Milliman is playing an entirely different roster.

Milliman made his choices with a fairly similar roster (until the end of the year), and won four games. You're not holding your coaches to this same standard. Food for thought.

My food for thought is that Milliman never coached these guys before and Petro and Benson were headed for possible the worst full season since '71 in 2020 before the pandemic - so with the most completely similar rosters - the outcome was virtually identical 2-4 (33%) 4-9 (30%).

There's a mile between this statement, and you claiming that putting DeSimone at middy "failed miserably" .

Stand by both statements. 4 and 13 is not a good season for a 1st line middie - let alone a consistent top 5 recruit and one time #2 ranked recruit in the entire country- along with 11% shooting - no one is going to tell you that. The decision to have him bulk up failed - miserably.

Enjoy

Anyone who doesn’t think Coach Milliman and his staff did a good job in the 2021 season doesn’t understand lacrosse.

It was a very fine job under very trying circumstances … far more difficult than the challenges faced by teams returning their staff from the 2020 season.

Coach Milliman got his team playing close to the level of the national championship runner-up. The Hopkins team that played Maryland in the B1G finals was a very good team. I’m particularly impressed by how well the Hopkins D played in the B1G tournament.

DocBarrister

[a fan]

False. You're cherry picking a Hopkins season where the coaches never saw the players in person until January - Except for any other team that switched coaching staffs between 20 and 21 - it was NOT the same. Plus Hopkins and the state of Maryland had very conservative protocols - see jhuo6 posts - and they had to stop practice for a week until te WaWA situation was resolved.

I get it now. For you, the entire 2021 season didn't happen, and you're giving Milliman a full mulligan.

I point to the scoreboard.....you point to Covid. Any comparison is pointless.

That's cool. Enjoy your weekend.

[Sagittarius A*]

False. You're cherry picking a Hopkins season where the coaches never saw the players in person until January - Except for any other team that switched coaching staffs between 20 and 21 - it was NOT the same. Plus Hopkins and the state of Maryland had very conservative protocols - see jhuo6 posts - and they had to stop practice for a week until te WaWA situation was resolved.

I get it now. For you, the entire 2021 season didn't happen, and you're giving Milliman a full mulligan.

I point to the scoreboard.....you point to Covid. Any comparison is pointless.

That's cool. Enjoy your weekend.

DeSimone is a much better and much more productive player at attack than midfield.
The new staff recognized this, the old staff didn't.
The new staff deserves credit for taking a 2-8 team and getting to the BIG finals. That's something to build on.
The 2020 season was painful to watch. The team was getting blown out in the first quarter. No fire or competitiveness could be seen.
At least some blame for that falls on the coaching staff. I would have been happy to buy their tickets out of town.