THE 2019 Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

[DMac]

Take a screen shot of Cooks arm hitting his head, please. That dark thing on his upper chest? Its called an elbow pad.

Regardless, you wanna call it illegal. Fine. Dirty? Nonsense.

You are right in that his elbow pad hit his chest. The problem is people have the rest of their arm that connects the elbow to the shoulder and immediately above the chest is the guys head. His upper arm hit him in the head. He also aimed for his head. It's the dirtiest hit I've seen in a long time and it is honestly a bit shameful that you are out here trying to defend it.

Do not see what you're seeing. Freeze the screen before any contact. Freeze it when McManus has the ball in his stick parallel to the ground about knee high, and he's looking at the oncoming Cook. Freeze it when the initial contact with the forearm is made. McManus turns his head at that point with the anticipation of contact. Cook's upper arm, shoulder, never hits McManuns' head.
Agree with russy.

[HopFan16]

Take a screen shot of Cooks arm hitting his head, please. That dark thing on his upper chest? Its called an elbow pad.

Regardless, you wanna call it illegal. Fine. Dirty? Nonsense.

You are right in that his elbow pad hit his chest. The problem is people have the rest of their arm that connects the elbow to the shoulder and immediately above the chest is the guys head. His upper arm hit him in the head. He also aimed for his head. It's the dirtiest hit I've seen in a long time and it is honestly a bit shameful that you are out here trying to defend it.

Do not see what you're seeing. Freeze the screen before any contact. Freeze it when McManus has the ball in his stick parallel to the ground about knee high, and he's looking at the oncoming Cook. Freeze it when the initial contact with the forearm is made. McManus turns his head at that point with the anticipation of contact. Cook's upper arm, shoulder, never hits McManuns' head.
Agree with russy.

Seems like you were too busy assessing the coach's physique to actually watch the game.

By the way, did you see Desko's gut today? Such an embarrassment to the storied Syracuse program. No wonder they've had such trouble recruiting lately. If your coach isn't going to look like a supermodel, what else is he not willing to do for his players? Unacceptable. These kids deserve so much better.

[a fan]

His upper arm hit him in the head. He also aimed for his head. It's the dirtiest hit I've seen in a long time and it is honestly a bit shameful that you are out here trying to defend it.

At best the forearm clipped the bottom of his facemask. They're moving full speed on what would charitably be called unstable ground, and you guys are 100% sure it was a dirty hit and intentional? Missed passes, missed catches, missed gbs in the mud and rain..... and yet you gents are convinced he tried the take his head off, and didn't simply miss his target by an inch or two, clipping the facemask?

In a one goal game? With his team down a goal in the 4th?

[a fan]

By the way, did you see Desko's gut today? Such an embarrassment to the storied Syracuse program.

That's different, with the lake effect snow, and all. He needs that for warmth.

(nice win against UNC, Hopfan, congrats)

[Typical Lax Dad]

His upper arm hit him in the head. He also aimed for his head. It's the dirtiest hit I've seen in a long time and it is honestly a bit shameful that you are out here trying to defend it.

At best the forearm clipped the bottom of his facemask. They're moving full speed on what would charitably be called unstable ground, and you guys are 100% sure it was a dirty hit and intentional? Missed passes, missed catches, missed gbs in the mud and rain..... and yet you gents are convinced he tried the take his head off, and didn't simply miss his target by an inch or two, clipping the facemask?

In a one goal game? With his team down a goal in the 4th?

It was dirty but that's part of the game up north.

[wgdsr]

i dunno what you guys are looking at. he clipped his head with his upper arm/shoulder. doesn't matter where his elbow was at. and hop guy was rising off the gb but that is part of the equation you have to input if you're the hitter in a situation like that.
2 minutes was probably the right call.

Rowlett's hit was a good deal worse. more full speed ahead, late, more defenseless... and helmet on helmet. rowlett is an enforcer and a great talent, but at some point someone should've taken him aside and told him what's acceptable. the unc staff for one has been unwilling to do that.

p.s. full disclosure, i defended a hit from bray malphrus on billy bitter years ago on lp, semi-similar in nature, though not exactly. just a post-shot hit. a lot happens quickly in small spaces on a bang bang play. trying to discern expectations of where body parts are going to be is part of laying on hits.

[DMac]

Take a screen shot of Cooks arm hitting his head, please. That dark thing on his upper chest? Its called an elbow pad.

Regardless, you wanna call it illegal. Fine. Dirty? Nonsense.

You are right in that his elbow pad hit his chest. The problem is people have the rest of their arm that connects the elbow to the shoulder and immediately above the chest is the guys head. His upper arm hit him in the head. He also aimed for his head. It's the dirtiest hit I've seen in a long time and it is honestly a bit shameful that you are out here trying to defend it.

Do not see what you're seeing. Freeze the screen before any contact. Freeze it when McManus has the ball in his stick parallel to the ground about knee high, and he's looking at the oncoming Cook. Freeze it when the initial contact with the forearm is made. McManus turns his head at that point with the anticipation of contact. Cook's upper arm, shoulder, never hits McManuns' head.
Agree with russy.

Seems like you were too busy assessing the coach's physique to actually watch the game.

By the way, did you see Desko's gut today? Such an embarrassment to the storied Syracuse program. No wonder they've had such trouble recruiting lately. If your coach isn't going to look like a supermodel, what else is he not willing to do for his players? Unacceptable. These kids deserve so much better.

Don't have to see the game, just the provided clip showing the "attempted murder" is a false accusation..
Agree with a fan...MAYBE he clipped him under the chin, pretty tough to tell for certain. Any way you look at it, there was no head hunting, or Cook's forearm would have gone to McManus' head rather than his chest.

Yes, I saw JD today, if Dwan could trim down to his size, it'd be a real good start.

That's BS about dirty lacrosse played up this way, TLD.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

Let’s move on to Princeton.

Massey computer rankings are up:

https://www.masseyratings.com/clax/ncaa-d1/ratings

Hopkins up to 11. 11!

3A436C66-115B-4E2C-8709-D4FA21244BF8.jpeg (21.26 KiB) Viewed 3286 times

Great to see Richmond move way up too, thanks to their win over ND.

W

[runrussellrun]

i dunno what you guys are looking at. he clipped his head with his upper arm/shoulder. doesn't matter where his elbow was at. and hop guy was rising off the gb but that is part of the equation you have to input if you're the hitter in a situation like that.
2 minutes was probably the right call.

Rowlett's hit was a good deal worse. more full speed ahead, late, more defenseless... and helmet on helmet. rowlett is an enforcer and a great talent, but at some point someone should've taken him aside and told him what's acceptable. the unc staff for one has been unwilling to do that.

p.s. full disclosure, i defended a hit from bray malphrus on billy bitter years ago on lp, semi-similar in nature, though not exactly. just a post-shot hit. a lot happens quickly in small spaces on a bang bang play. trying to discern expectations of where body parts are going to be is part of laying on hits.

Defenseless? That's interesting. When Rowlett is less than a yard away fron #19, you can CLEARLY see the ball STILL in his stick while shooting. Do the math, Rowlett traveling at 15 mph, #19 shooting it at least 90 mph.......again, with Rowlet less than three feet from the shooter....when is the ball five yards away?

Ridiculous to call this one cheap or LATE. And Rowlett led with his shoulder, NOT the cross check wimp ass hitting we see 90% of the time........H to H was incidendal .

[Typical Lax Dad]

Take a screen shot of Cooks arm hitting his head, please. That dark thing on his upper chest? Its called an elbow pad.

Regardless, you wanna call it illegal. Fine. Dirty? Nonsense.

You are right in that his elbow pad hit his chest. The problem is people have the rest of their arm that connects the elbow to the shoulder and immediately above the chest is the guys head. His upper arm hit him in the head. He also aimed for his head. It's the dirtiest hit I've seen in a long time and it is honestly a bit shameful that you are out here trying to defend it.

Do not see what you're seeing. Freeze the screen before any contact. Freeze it when McManus has the ball in his stick parallel to the ground about knee high, and he's looking at the oncoming Cook. Freeze it when the initial contact with the forearm is made. McManus turns his head at that point with the anticipation of contact. Cook's upper arm, shoulder, never hits McManuns' head.
Agree with russy.

Seems like you were too busy assessing the coach's physique to actually watch the game.

By the way, did you see Desko's gut today? Such an embarrassment to the storied Syracuse program. No wonder they've had such trouble recruiting lately. If your coach isn't going to look like a supermodel, what else is he not willing to do for his players? Unacceptable. These kids deserve so much better.

Don't have to see the game, just the provided clip showing the "attempted murder" is a false accusation..
Agree with a fan...MAYBE he clipped him under the chin, pretty tough to tell for certain. Any way you look at it, there was no head hunting, or Cook's forearm would have gone to McManus' head rather than his chest.

Yes, I saw JD today, if Dwan could trim down to his size, it'd be a real good start.

That's BS about dirty lacrosse played up this way, TLD.

One of my best friends was GM for the Mammoth. He told me he would specifically go to Canada to find “goons”. Had to have them in the league at the time. Would ask me which college players in the area would fight. The uNc player was defenseless. Cook lined him up. Players head was down and never saw him coming but I could be mistaken. I would take 10 players from Canada if I could because they compete like hell. Can cross the line but so do some American players. That play in box or hockey is no big deal. Muscle memory may have gotten the best of Cook. Let’s say it “looked” like a dirty play. Not calling Cook a habitual dirty player. No offense meant for Canadian players. I would take as many as I could find.

PS an American player got my son. It was dirty and I have known the kid for 6 years. Cheap and frustrated.

[HopFan16]

Dave Cottle, who certainly does not wear "blue-colored glasses," calls for the player to be suspended.

While the conditions were bad this looks like a game suspension hit and I am a guy who errs on the side of the player. Whether it is a half or a whole game the elbow to the head is bad.

https://twitter.com/CoachCottle/status/ ... 0373210112

Quint has us back in the top 20:

17. Johns Hopkins The Jays won the mud bowl in North Carolina. This was a throwback game to an era before synthetic fields. Generations of players toiled in the February and March muck after winter’s meltdown. If you couldn't function in mud, you couldn't play. Running, scooping, passing, shooting and playing defense — take nothing for granted when you are ankle deep in goo. Maintaining cleats, gloves and keeping a stick throwing accurate passes under these conditions was a labor of love. It brought us closer to the game.

Hopkins used a 4-1 run late in the third quarter to garner its first win of the season. Freshman Joey Epstein tallied four points and Hopkins received contributions from many, including five goals from non-starters: Brett Baskin, Matt Hubler, Robert Kuhn, Jack Keogh and Taite Cattoni found net.

#WeWantMore is at Princeton on Saturday.

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... ntum/53837

For a team that has thus far lacked an identity, Petro would be smart to get these guys to buy into a "mud bowl" mentality for the rest of the season.

[OCanada]

Just before Canada won its first world title Dave Huntley (Canadian) was asked who he thought would win. He replied the “Canadians because the American attsckmen were pu*****.

I went to HS on the border. I could literally take a very short walk and look down into the Niagera River. Half our hockey team were Canadians. They were the high skill guys. The enforcers were American. We had some brutal games against Canadian teams.

I was not surprised when UNC won s title with a Canadian player leading the way. I haven’t really been involved in the Gabe for quite awhile but when I was UNC players were stereotyped as picking UNC because while blue chip players there emphasis was not on working as hard as they could. When Willie Scroggs won his titles the teams were like their coach. I sat behind Mike Curtis (all pro MLB) forcthe Colts who was at a Hopkins game as part of a few scouting Joe Cowan, later drafted and last cut. He noticed Willie’s play and commented if Willie was 40 lbs heavier Willie would also be all pro at linebacker. Willie was that kind of competitor

[DMac]

Typical Lax Dad wrote
Let’s say it “looked” like a dirty play.

With that, I agree. It wasn't though. If I knew how to give you that video frame by frame (no tech head out there who can do that for us?) you would see that Cook's arm never touches McManus' head. When McManus sees that he's going to get hit he turns his head, and that it what makes it look like a dirty play (as if he got hit in the head). I've gone through that video as close to step by step as I can, there was no attempted murder, no head hunting, just a rough play. I get it that that kind of play is going to draw a flag in lacrosse in today's game. Carlin was called for unnecessary roughness in the Cuse-Army game yesterday, that hit would draw attempted murder/head hunting accusations on this thread. I haven't seen a replay of it, no question it was a hard hit and that's pretty much going to get you some laundry in the era of making lacrosse safer but it looked like a pretty darn good and clean hit to me in real time. Just the way it is but neither player being discussed here deserves a suspension despite what Cottle's opinion might be (maybe he should go through the video step by step too).

[10stone5]

Just before Canada won its first world title Dave Huntley (Canadian) was asked who he thought would win. He replied the “Canadians because the American attackmen were pu*****.

Hah!
Great answer.
He may have been correct.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_Worl ... ip#Rosters

I mean, Urso wasn’t on that team, Mike O’Neill wasn’t on that team, no Federico.
Obviously, two of those aren’t attack, and McEneaney couldn’t have been expected to do it all himself.

[viper]

I have to say, regardless of where the hit ended up, it seems that freeing an arm and using it as a "weapon" to inflict a hit is far outside the norm and deviation of appropriate use of force in a lacrosse game. I believe that alone was grounds for a more severe penalty than what was prescribed as it seems to me to certainly add a level of premeditation and intent.

In Rowlett's case, it seemed to me that he was leading with the head and that certainly warranted the call, however what he did after the play was over - raising his arms up in celebration (followed by the bicep pose) while a player lie on the ground holding his head was unconscionable and should have merited additional penalty either by the referees of his own coaches. I can't say if/how Breschi dealt with that, but it did not seem to be dealt with at that time.

The sport isn't what it used to be with regard to physicality. Most sports are not (aka NFL and NCAA CFL). Maybe many of the players are not as "tough" as they once were, but I would think that there are many retired NFL folks who would have traded some of that toughness for the medical issues that have followed them afterward.

As the parent of high school and college level lacrosse players, I would easily trade the "p****" comments about them on these boards in exchange for them dealing with a future of CTE or other lifelong medical issues.

[HopFan16]

In Rowlett's case, it seemed to me that he was leading with the head and that certainly warranted the call, however what he did after the play was over - raising his arms up in celebration (followed by the bicep pose) while a player lie on the ground holding his head was unconscionable and should have merited additional penalty either by the referees of his own coaches. I can't say if/how Breschi dealt with that, but it did not seem to be dealt with at that time.

Not only that, but he gave up the goal! Kuhn scored on the play! Idiotic to celebrate that. Shows he cares more about "flexing" on his opponent and the optics of the hit than, you know, the actual result, which was a goal for the other team in what ended up being a one-goal game.

Reasoned and mature takes on both hits, Viper.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

I have to say, regardless of where the hit ended up, it seems that freeing an arm and using it as a "weapon" to inflict a hit is far outside the norm and deviation of appropriate use of force in a lacrosse game. I believe that alone was grounds for a more severe penalty than what was prescribed as it seems to me to certainly add a level of premeditation and intent.

In Rowlett's case, it seemed to me that he was leading with the head and that certainly warranted the call, however what he did after the play was over - raising his arms up in celebration (followed by the bicep pose) while a player lie on the ground holding his head was unconscionable and should have merited additional penalty either by the referees of his own coaches. I can't say if/how Breschi dealt with that, but it did not seem to be dealt with at that time.

The sport isn't what it used to be with regard to physicality. Most sports are not (aka NFL and NCAA CFL). Maybe many of the players are not as "tough" as they once were, but I would think that there are many retired NFL folks who would have traded some of that toughness for the medical issues that have followed them afterward.

As the parent of high school and college level lacrosse players, I would easily trade the "p****" comments about them on these boards in exchange for them dealing with a future of CTE or other lifelong medical issues.

Amen. You really can’t put a value on the contents of someone’s noggin. Priceless.

Pretty sure some at some schools have a lot of rocks in there though.

[DMac]

viper wrote
I have to say, regardless of where the hit ended up, it seems that freeing an arm and using it as a "weapon" to inflict a hit is far outside the norm and deviation of appropriate use of force in a lacrosse game. I believe that alone was grounds for a more severe penalty than what was prescribed as it seems to me to certainly add a level of premeditation and intent.

Cook has two hands on the stick when contact is made, right hand on the bottom (which is the forearm he leads with) left hand above that. He never has only one hand on the stick until after the contact (when he let lets go with the left).

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

Was any of the mud and turf piled up to create a Kenan grassy knoll?

[TheBigIguana]

His upper arm hit him in the head. He also aimed for his head. It's the dirtiest hit I've seen in a long time and it is honestly a bit shameful that you are out here trying to defend it.

At best the forearm clipped the bottom of his facemask. They're moving full speed on what would charitably be called unstable ground, and you guys are 100% sure it was a dirty hit and intentional? Missed passes, missed catches, missed gbs in the mud and rain..... and yet you gents are convinced he tried the take his head off, and didn't simply miss his target by an inch or two, clipping the facemask?

In a one goal game? With his team down a goal in the 4th?

He aimed high, swung his elbow and at best slightly clipped his head although I think it was pretty solid contact. Yes I'm sure it was dirty.