Progressive Ideology

[SCLaxAttack]

So blatantly disregarding the anthem/flag of a country during a sporting event does not express positive or negative thoughts of said country?

Hmmm. Seems a bit of a stretch.

Perhaps all athletes should use the Olympics and medal stand as a stage to protest.

Perhaps an American could act this way during the Chinese anthem? Or Russian?

It isn’t disrespect. It’s out of love!

Kram, as someone who gets annoyed when the anthem strikes up and see lots of guys leave their hats on, continue talking, drink their beer etc, I agree that it's disrespectful. It's not a protest, it's because they simply don't respect the moment, nor their fellow 'fans'.

But a purposeful protest is another matter altogether. Consciously saying to fellow Americans that we should live more fully up to our country's ideals and aspirations.

And BTW, I suspect a lot of those I see being disrespectful at sporting events are the same sorts who would be blowhards about an African American athlete protesting for racial justice.

My questions about blind obeisance started in elementary school when we all were instructed to stand, place our hands over our hearts and recite a sales promo authored by a flag salesman in the early 20th century. And great it is has been and could continue to be. However, their have been significant injustices and will continue to be if we do not acknowledge the past and confront the continued issues that flow from same.

Public occasions like this and the playing of the national anthem with its troubled history aren't moments of disregard for me, but moments to reflect on the gap between the "Norman Rockwell" image promulgated by these displays and the reality of the history of our great nation. So, I will sit quietly and let others perform whatever rituals they wish without comment or interruption. I extend to others the same right and expectation of public comportment.

Whatever you do, don't sit in judgment of my patriotism. I'll express my opinions and beliefs whenever and wherever I so choose.


“A lady asked Dr. Franklin Well Doctor what have we got a republic or a monarchy. A republic replied the Doctor if you can keep it.”

This comment led me to find out a little more.

OMG, a socialist! https://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm

[kramerica.inc]

The Pledge of Allegiance
Vs.
The National Anthem

[PizzaSnake]

So blatantly disregarding the anthem/flag of a country during a sporting event does not express positive or negative thoughts of said country?

Hmmm. Seems a bit of a stretch.

Perhaps all athletes should use the Olympics and medal stand as a stage to protest.

Perhaps an American could act this way during the Chinese anthem? Or Russian?

It isn’t disrespect. It’s out of love!

Kram, as someone who gets annoyed when the anthem strikes up and see lots of guys leave their hats on, continue talking, drink their beer etc, I agree that it's disrespectful. It's not a protest, it's because they simply don't respect the moment, nor their fellow 'fans'.

But a purposeful protest is another matter altogether. Consciously saying to fellow Americans that we should live more fully up to our country's ideals and aspirations.

And BTW, I suspect a lot of those I see being disrespectful at sporting events are the same sorts who would be blowhards about an African American athlete protesting for racial justice.

My questions about blind obeisance started in elementary school when we all were instructed to stand, place our hands over our hearts and recite a sales promo authored by a flag salesman in the early 20th century. And great it is has been and could continue to be. However, their have been significant injustices and will continue to be if we do not acknowledge the past and confront the continued issues that flow from same.

Public occasions like this and the playing of the national anthem with its troubled history aren't moments of disregard for me, but moments to reflect on the gap between the "Norman Rockwell" image promulgated by these displays and the reality of the history of our great nation. So, I will sit quietly and let others perform whatever rituals they wish without comment or interruption. I extend to others the same right and expectation of public comportment.

Whatever you do, don't sit in judgment of my patriotism. I'll express my opinions and beliefs whenever and wherever I so choose.


“A lady asked Dr. Franklin Well Doctor what have we got a republic or a monarchy. A republic replied the Doctor if you can keep it.”

This comment led me to find out a little more.

OMG, a socialist! https://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm

And a racist one to boot:

'Bellamy, a former Baptist preacher, had irritated his Boston Brahmin flock with his socialist ideas. But as a writer and publicist at the Companion, he let ’em rip. In a series of speeches and editorials that were equal parts marketing, political theory and racism, he argued that Gilded Age capitalism, along with “every alien immigrant of inferior race,” eroded traditional values, and that pledging allegiance would ensure “that the distinctive principles of true Americanism will not perish as long as free, public education endures.”'

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... 180956332/

About the flag sales:

'Francis Bellamy, a Christian minister, penned the patriotic sentence in 1892 to mark the 400th anniversary of Christopher Columbus’s arrival in the Americas. He wrote at the time for a general-interest magazine called the Youth’s Companion, which published the pledge to encourage schoolchildren to recite it each morning.

Schools would need to purchase flags for students to do so, according to pledge expert Shelley Lapkoff, and the magazine just happened to sell them.

“It was both to get people to have flags, in keeping with their belief of patriotism, and then also to help their business,” Lapkoff said. “I believe the reason that flags are so predominant in our culture is because of the Pledge of Allegiance and this mass-marketing campaign that went on.”

It’s still a public-school tradition to say the pledge each morning, though the accompanying gesture has switched from an outstretched hand to a hand-over-heart salute, according to Elizabeth Brown, a reference librarian at the Library of Congress.

“It’s just so much a part of the fabric of American society,” Brown said. “We all grew up with it in our schools and our scout meetings and at so many events.”'

Want some real American originalism and exceptionalism? Try eugenics.

"The American eugenics movement was formed during the late nineteenth century and continued as late as the 1940s. The American eugenics movement embraced negative eugenics, with the goal to eliminate undesirable genetic traits in the human race through selective breeding. During the American eugenics movement, laws were enacted that legalized forced sterilizations and prohibited individuals that had mental or physical defects and couples of mixed-race from marrying (Bouche & Rivard, 2014)."

https://sites.uw.edu/twomn347/2019/12/1 ... -movement/

And continues to this day... See the forced sterilization of Britney Spears for an example.

'At the end of her passionate, 24-minute speech, Spears dropped a final bombshell of an accusation: Her “so-called team” refused to let her remove the intrauterine contraceptive device (IUD) implanted inside her, preventing her from having more children.'

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-a ... parenthood

Yep, all good here. No issues from our past that need top be dragged out into the light.

"The next time allegations surface that ICE detention centers are coercively sterilizing people without informed consent, I hope that [people] are as outraged as they are about Britney Spears’ situation. The next time that allegations surface that prisons in California or the next state have been sterilizing folks without informed consent."

[PizzaSnake]

The Pledge of Allegiance
Vs.
The National Anthem

"When the U.S. national anthem was first recognized by law in 1931, there was no prescription as to behavior during its playing. On June 22, 1942, the law was revised indicating that those in uniform should salute during its playing, while others should simply stand at attention, men removing their hats. The same code also required that women should place their hands over their hearts when the flag is displayed during the playing of the national anthem, but not if the flag was not present. On December 23, 1942, the law was again revised instructing men and women to stand at attention and face in the direction of the music when it was played. That revision also directed men and women to place their hands over their hearts only if the flag was displayed. Those in uniform were required to salute. On July 7, 1976, the law was simplified. Men and women were instructed to stand with their hands over their hearts, men removing their hats, irrespective of whether or not the flag was displayed and those in uniform saluting. On August 12, 1998, the law was rewritten keeping the same instructions, but differentiating between "those in uniform" and "members of the Armed Forces and veterans" who were both instructed to salute during the playing whether or not the flag was displayed. Because of the changes in law over the years and confusion between instructions for the Pledge of Allegiance versus the National Anthem, throughout most of the 20th century many people simply stood at attention or with their hands folded in front of them during the playing of the Anthem, and when reciting the Pledge they would hold their hand (or hat) over their heart. After 9/11, the custom of placing the hand over the heart during the playing of the national anthem became nearly universal.[71][72][73]

Since 1998, federal law (viz., the United States Code 36 U.S.C. § 301) states that during a rendition of the national anthem, when the flag is displayed, all present including those in uniform should stand at attention; non-military service individuals should face the flag with the right hand over the heart; members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present and not in uniform may render the military salute; military service persons not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold the headdress at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note. The law further provides that when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed. Military law requires all vehicles on the installation to stop when the song is played and all individuals outside to stand at attention and face the direction of the music and either salute, in uniform, or place the right hand over the heart, if out of uniform. The law was amended in 2008, and since allows military veterans to salute out of uniform, as well.[74][75]

The text of 36 U.S.C. § 301 is suggestive and not regulatory in nature. Failure to follow the suggestions is not a violation of the law. This behavioral requirement for the national anthem is subject to the same First Amendment controversies that surround the Pledge of Allegiance.[76] For example, Jehovah's Witnesses do not sing the national anthem, though they are taught that standing is an "ethical decision" that individual believers must make based on their conscience."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star- ... iod_lyrics

[kramerica.inc]

Yes. Correct. You aren't required to participate in the pledge at school.


And as for the Anthem, "Should" is used in legal code.

[Kismet]

The Pledge of Allegiance
Vs.
The National Anthem

"When the U.S. national anthem was first recognized by law in 1931, there was no prescription as to behavior during its playing. On June 22, 1942, the law was revised indicating that those in uniform should salute during its playing, while others should simply stand at attention, men removing their hats. The same code also required that women should place their hands over their hearts when the flag is displayed during the playing of the national anthem, but not if the flag was not present. On December 23, 1942, the law was again revised instructing men and women to stand at attention and face in the direction of the music when it was played. That revision also directed men and women to place their hands over their hearts only if the flag was displayed. Those in uniform were required to salute. On July 7, 1976, the law was simplified. Men and women were instructed to stand with their hands over their hearts, men removing their hats, irrespective of whether or not the flag was displayed and those in uniform saluting. On August 12, 1998, the law was rewritten keeping the same instructions, but differentiating between "those in uniform" and "members of the Armed Forces and veterans" who were both instructed to salute during the playing whether or not the flag was displayed. Because of the changes in law over the years and confusion between instructions for the Pledge of Allegiance versus the National Anthem, throughout most of the 20th century many people simply stood at attention or with their hands folded in front of them during the playing of the Anthem, and when reciting the Pledge they would hold their hand (or hat) over their heart. After 9/11, the custom of placing the hand over the heart during the playing of the national anthem became nearly universal.[71][72][73]

Since 1998, federal law (viz., the United States Code 36 U.S.C. § 301) states that during a rendition of the national anthem, when the flag is displayed, all present including those in uniform should stand at attention; non-military service individuals should face the flag with the right hand over the heart; members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present and not in uniform may render the military salute; military service persons not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold the headdress at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note. The law further provides that when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed. Military law requires all vehicles on the installation to stop when the song is played and all individuals outside to stand at attention and face the direction of the music and either salute, in uniform, or place the right hand over the heart, if out of uniform. The law was amended in 2008, and since allows military veterans to salute out of uniform, as well.[74][75]

The text of 36 U.S.C. § 301 is suggestive and not regulatory in nature. Failure to follow the suggestions is not a violation of the law. This behavioral requirement for the national anthem is subject to the same First Amendment controversies that surround the Pledge of Allegiance.[76] For example, Jehovah's Witnesses do not sing the national anthem, though they are taught that standing is an "ethical decision" that individual believers must make based on their conscience."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star- ... iod_lyrics

The law regarding the pledge salute (AKA Bellamy salute) was also changed in 1942 to replace it with hand over heart when reciting the pledge. The reason was because the Bellamy salute was identical to the Fascist salutes first employed by both Hitler and Mussolini in the 1930s

[cradleandshoot]

Go away, troll.

When your representing your COUNTRY your representing all Americans. If you can't put your personal biases against your country on the sidelines for 10 days. Then stay home and stand by your principles. IMO her coach should have had a heart to heart with her and put it in no uncertain terms. She could choose to make up her own mind. If she can't then the coach should find another athlete to take her place.

yup, that's you think...that it's based on a lie about the reasoning folks like this gal have ("they hate their country", they have "personal biases against their country") is of no matter to you. Ignore their reasoning, all that matters is your assumptions, wrong as they may be.

Got it.

In this instance I don't care about their reasoning. If your beliefs are so strong, stay home. They are going to embarrass their team mates and their country with a selfish protest against their country. Yes I believe it is a symbolic gesture showing hatred and contempt towards your country. I think her behavior was contemptible, you think she a modern day heroine. Got it Lima Charlie. In my world her coach tells her to pack her bags and go home. That would be mean spirited wouldn't it?

Well, in the real world, the coach gets sent home.
But hey, go ahead and move to China or NK if you want it the other way.

No, I don't think she's a heroine.
And I'd prefer that she had another way to express her views.

However, I respect the intent of such protests, and I fully accept that those who protest typically love our country's ideals and best aspirations. Doesn't mean that a protester couldn't 'hate' or have 'contempt' for the country, but I don't read any of that in these particular sorts of protests, certainly not automatically.

I do not respect the intent of her protest. She is not Colin Kaepernick, she is SUPPOSE to be representing the United States of America. She has to have to have the ability to put aside her political beliefs and animosity for as long as she has been given this honor and this opportunity that many thousands of athletes would give anything to achieve.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/3166837/ol ... y-us-flag/

This picture is worth a thousand words IMO. Her 2 team mates are standing on the podium with their hands on their hearts. She is standing there sulking. She even comments in the article she was pi**ed they had the audacity to play that anthem while she was standing up there. I hope here coach and or whoever is in charge of our olympic athletes kicks her sorry ass of the team. She does not deserve to represent America. She has the right to her opinion but not at the expense of humiliating and embarrassing the entire US team. Which is exactly what she did, at least in my eyes she did.

Apparently, the winner of the event was not 'embarrassed' but instead was proud of her.

But hey, you're free to have your opinion, for what it's worth.

I have my opinion. I wish they would do a poll of every athlete in the team. FTR, what do you think her team mate was suppose to say? Then she would have chuckle heads of your opinion raking her over the coals for her insensitivity. Better to follow popular opinion than to stray off of the reservation.

Ahhh, so now the team mate is lying?
She was rather strong in her statement, could have simply said it was 'ok' by her. No one would have sweated her for that. But nope, "proud"...

Come on cradle...maybe these athletes actually support the cause of racial justice.

Probably not all, but given the age range and the general diversity of the athlete pool, it's quite likely that they are quite similar in their views to other young, diverse Americans. And that's pretty overwhelming in support.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fac ... 345416001/

Take your gripe to the IOC and the Japanese hosts. They don't want to see this type of chit during the games. So it ain't just me skippy. I will accept your humble apology at any time. You may decide to give the IOC and the Japanese hosts a piece of your mind as well...

I don't have a 'gripe' cradle, you're the one all twisted up in knots on this.

The United States Olympic Committee authorized protests for the Trials. It's not their call for the Games.
As I said, move to China or NK...heck, a huge part of the world punishes protestors for simply protesting their governments' policies.

Back in the good 'ole USA though,

The U.S. committee said it would allow demonstrations, including kneeling during the national anthem, at Team USA trials.

In December 2020 the U.S. committee said it would no longer punish Team USA athletes who peacefully demonstrate. That doesn't apply to the Tokyo Games overseen by the IOC, however.

The committee did not respond to a request for comment clarifying its position on athletes demonstrating at the Tokyo Games.

The IOC also has distinguished between "expressing views" and protests. Its guidelines say athletes can express opinions during press conferences and media interviews, at team meetings or on traditional and digital media.

"I don't have a 'gripe' cradle, you're the one all twisted up in knots on this."

Finally a point we are almost in agreement on. Twisted up in knots is poor terminology though. The point of order would be... the correct verbiage would be unwilling to accept substandard and unacceptable behavior from an athlete representing her country... much better way of putting it.

" In December 2020 the U.S. committee said it would no longer punish Team USA athletes who peacefully demonstrate."

Do you think that was a smart move? Is there any athlete from any other nation you can name that would act in such a repugnant manner while standing on the platform accepting a medal? There is a time and a place for a peaceful demonstration and doing it during the middle of the awarding of medals is the epitome of having no class at all and no respect for your fellow athletes and the games themselves. If the people in charge of team USA are willing to let the inmates run the asylum then they have kowtowed to political correctness. They should send a message Lima Charlie and throw her ass off the team like having done so yesterday. My prediction is if the folks in charge of team USA allow this chitshow to continue the proof of their stupidity and ignorance will come when the final TV ratings are tabulated and more Americans watched reruns of Bugs Bunny than decided to watch the athletes representing their country. I'm betting you will have your own spin to put on that as well MD.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/hockey-co ... oggle-gdpr

This coach gets it, I love the guy, he sounds like every coach I have ever known.

"grab your gear and get the f**k out now" no FLP ambiguity going on here.

[Peter Brown]

Go away, troll.

When your representing your COUNTRY your representing all Americans. If you can't put your personal biases against your country on the sidelines for 10 days. Then stay home and stand by your principles. IMO her coach should have had a heart to heart with her and put it in no uncertain terms. She could choose to make up her own mind. If she can't then the coach should find another athlete to take her place.

yup, that's you think...that it's based on a lie about the reasoning folks like this gal have ("they hate their country", they have "personal biases against their country") is of no matter to you. Ignore their reasoning, all that matters is your assumptions, wrong as they may be.

Got it.

In this instance I don't care about their reasoning. If your beliefs are so strong, stay home. They are going to embarrass their team mates and their country with a selfish protest against their country. Yes I believe it is a symbolic gesture showing hatred and contempt towards your country. I think her behavior was contemptible, you think she a modern day heroine. Got it Lima Charlie. In my world her coach tells her to pack her bags and go home. That would be mean spirited wouldn't it?

Well, in the real world, the coach gets sent home.
But hey, go ahead and move to China or NK if you want it the other way.

No, I don't think she's a heroine.
And I'd prefer that she had another way to express her views.

However, I respect the intent of such protests, and I fully accept that those who protest typically love our country's ideals and best aspirations. Doesn't mean that a protester couldn't 'hate' or have 'contempt' for the country, but I don't read any of that in these particular sorts of protests, certainly not automatically.

I do not respect the intent of her protest. She is not Colin Kaepernick, she is SUPPOSE to be representing the United States of America. She has to have to have the ability to put aside her political beliefs and animosity for as long as she has been given this honor and this opportunity that many thousands of athletes would give anything to achieve.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/3166837/ol ... y-us-flag/

This picture is worth a thousand words IMO. Her 2 team mates are standing on the podium with their hands on their hearts. She is standing there sulking. She even comments in the article she was pi**ed they had the audacity to play that anthem while she was standing up there. I hope here coach and or whoever is in charge of our olympic athletes kicks her sorry ass of the team. She does not deserve to represent America. She has the right to her opinion but not at the expense of humiliating and embarrassing the entire US team. Which is exactly what she did, at least in my eyes she did.

Apparently, the winner of the event was not 'embarrassed' but instead was proud of her.

But hey, you're free to have your opinion, for what it's worth.

I have my opinion. I wish they would do a poll of every athlete in the team. FTR, what do you think her team mate was suppose to say? Then she would have chuckle heads of your opinion raking her over the coals for her insensitivity. Better to follow popular opinion than to stray off of the reservation.

Ahhh, so now the team mate is lying?
She was rather strong in her statement, could have simply said it was 'ok' by her. No one would have sweated her for that. But nope, "proud"...

Come on cradle...maybe these athletes actually support the cause of racial justice.

Probably not all, but given the age range and the general diversity of the athlete pool, it's quite likely that they are quite similar in their views to other young, diverse Americans. And that's pretty overwhelming in support.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fac ... 345416001/

Take your gripe to the IOC and the Japanese hosts. They don't want to see this type of chit during the games. So it ain't just me skippy. I will accept your humble apology at any time. You may decide to give the IOC and the Japanese hosts a piece of your mind as well...

I don't have a 'gripe' cradle, you're the one all twisted up in knots on this.

The United States Olympic Committee authorized protests for the Trials. It's not their call for the Games.
As I said, move to China or NK...heck, a huge part of the world punishes protestors for simply protesting their governments' policies.

Back in the good 'ole USA though,

The U.S. committee said it would allow demonstrations, including kneeling during the national anthem, at Team USA trials.

In December 2020 the U.S. committee said it would no longer punish Team USA athletes who peacefully demonstrate. That doesn't apply to the Tokyo Games overseen by the IOC, however.

The committee did not respond to a request for comment clarifying its position on athletes demonstrating at the Tokyo Games.

The IOC also has distinguished between "expressing views" and protests. Its guidelines say athletes can express opinions during press conferences and media interviews, at team meetings or on traditional and digital media.

"I don't have a 'gripe' cradle, you're the one all twisted up in knots on this."

Finally a point we are almost in agreement on. Twisted up in knots is poor terminology though. The point of order would be... the correct verbiage would be unwilling to accept substandard and unacceptable behavior from an athlete representing her country... much better way of putting it.

" In December 2020 the U.S. committee said it would no longer punish Team USA athletes who peacefully demonstrate."

Do you think that was a smart move? Is there any athlete from any other nation you can name that would act in such a repugnant manner while standing on the platform accepting a medal? There is a time and a place for a peaceful demonstration and doing it during the middle of the awarding of medals is the epitome of having no class at all and no respect for your fellow athletes and the games themselves. If the people in charge of team USA are willing to let the inmates run the asylum then they have kowtowed to political correctness. They should send a message Lima Charlie and throw her ass off the team like having done so yesterday. My prediction is if the folks in charge of team USA allow this chitshow to continue the proof of their stupidity and ignorance will come when the final TV ratings are tabulated and more Americans watched reruns of Bugs Bunny than decided to watch the athletes representing their country. I'm betting you will have your own spin to put on that as well MD.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/hockey-co ... oggle-gdpr

This coach gets it, I love the guy, he sounds like every coach I have ever known.

"grab your gear and get the f**k out now" no FLP ambiguity going on here.

Love this coach.

Libs throw down with Gwen rather than a guy like this hockey coach, who also happens to be a cop, who would save any lib on this board and not think twice before doing so.

[Kinduv]

Love this coach.

Libs throw down with Gwen rather than a guy like this hockey coach, who also happens to be a cop, who would save any lib on this board and not think twice before doing so.

YES!!!!!! Exact1y!!!! 1ib c0ps w0u1d 0n1y save 1efties 1ike them, pe0p1e wh0 are brainwashed 1ike them, PETER BR0WN IS RIGHT!!!!! But y0ur'e 1ibs s0 y0u can't see it!!!! YES!!

[jhu72]

So blatantly disregarding the anthem/flag of a country during a sporting event does not express positive or negative thoughts of said country?

Hmmm. Seems a bit of a stretch.

Perhaps all athletes should use the Olympics and medal stand as a stage to protest.

Perhaps an American could act this way during the Chinese anthem? Or Russian?

It isn’t disrespect. It’s out of love!

Kram, as someone who gets annoyed when the anthem strikes up and see lots of guys leave their hats on, continue talking, drink their beer etc, I agree that it's disrespectful. It's not a protest, it's because they simply don't respect the moment, nor their fellow 'fans'.

But a purposeful protest is another matter altogether. Consciously saying to fellow Americans that we should live more fully up to our country's ideals and aspirations.

And BTW, I suspect a lot of those I see being disrespectful at sporting events are the same sorts who would be blowhards about an African American athlete protesting for racial justice.

My questions about blind obeisance started in elementary school when we all were instructed to stand, place our hands over our hearts and recite a sales promo authored by a flag salesman in the early 20th century. And great it is has been and could continue to be. However, their have been significant injustices and will continue to be if we do not acknowledge the past and confront the continued issues that flow from same.

Public occasions like this and the playing of the national anthem with its troubled history aren't moments of disregard for me, but moments to reflect on the gap between the "Norman Rockwell" image promulgated by these displays and the reality of the history of our great nation. So, I will sit quietly and let others perform whatever rituals they wish without comment or interruption. I extend to others the same right and expectation of public comportment.

Whatever you do, don't sit in judgment of my patriotism. I'll express my opinions and beliefs whenever and wherever I so choose.


“A lady asked Dr. Franklin Well Doctor what have we got a republic or a monarchy. A republic replied the Doctor if you can keep it.”

This comment led me to find out a little more.

OMG, a socialist! https://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm

And a racist one to boot:

'Bellamy, a former Baptist preacher, had irritated his Boston Brahmin flock with his socialist ideas. But as a writer and publicist at the Companion, he let ’em rip. In a series of speeches and editorials that were equal parts marketing, political theory and racism, he argued that Gilded Age capitalism, along with “every alien immigrant of inferior race,” eroded traditional values, and that pledging allegiance would ensure “that the distinctive principles of true Americanism will not perish as long as free, public education endures.”'

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... 180956332/

About the flag sales:

'Francis Bellamy, a Christian minister, penned the patriotic sentence in 1892 to mark the 400th anniversary of Christopher Columbus’s arrival in the Americas. He wrote at the time for a general-interest magazine called the Youth’s Companion, which published the pledge to encourage schoolchildren to recite it each morning.

Schools would need to purchase flags for students to do so, according to pledge expert Shelley Lapkoff, and the magazine just happened to sell them.

“It was both to get people to have flags, in keeping with their belief of patriotism, and then also to help their business,” Lapkoff said. “I believe the reason that flags are so predominant in our culture is because of the Pledge of Allegiance and this mass-marketing campaign that went on.”

It’s still a public-school tradition to say the pledge each morning, though the accompanying gesture has switched from an outstretched hand to a hand-over-heart salute, according to Elizabeth Brown, a reference librarian at the Library of Congress.

“It’s just so much a part of the fabric of American society,” Brown said. “We all grew up with it in our schools and our scout meetings and at so many events.”'

Want some real American originalism and exceptionalism? Try eugenics.

"The American eugenics movement was formed during the late nineteenth century and continued as late as the 1940s. The American eugenics movement embraced negative eugenics, with the goal to eliminate undesirable genetic traits in the human race through selective breeding. During the American eugenics movement, laws were enacted that legalized forced sterilizations and prohibited individuals that had mental or physical defects and couples of mixed-race from marrying (Bouche & Rivard, 2014)."

https://sites.uw.edu/twomn347/2019/12/1 ... -movement/

And continues to this day... See the forced sterilization of Britney Spears for an example.

'At the end of her passionate, 24-minute speech, Spears dropped a final bombshell of an accusation: Her “so-called team” refused to let her remove the intrauterine contraceptive device (IUD) implanted inside her, preventing her from having more children.'

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-a ... parenthood

Yep, all good here. No issues from our past that need top be dragged out into the light.

"The next time allegations surface that ICE detention centers are coercively sterilizing people without informed consent, I hope that [people] are as outraged as they are about Britney Spears’ situation. The next time that allegations surface that prisons in California or the next state have been sterilizing folks without informed consent."

... where do you think Hitler got his ideas about eugenics? In the 30's the USA was #1 in theory and practice, but our student quickly surpassed us. History of eugenics. Is it ok to mention this? Could trigger some anti-critical race theory snowflake that doesn't want America's real history to get out.

[PizzaSnake]

So blatantly disregarding the anthem/flag of a country during a sporting event does not express positive or negative thoughts of said country?

Hmmm. Seems a bit of a stretch.

Perhaps all athletes should use the Olympics and medal stand as a stage to protest.

Perhaps an American could act this way during the Chinese anthem? Or Russian?

It isn’t disrespect. It’s out of love!

Kram, as someone who gets annoyed when the anthem strikes up and see lots of guys leave their hats on, continue talking, drink their beer etc, I agree that it's disrespectful. It's not a protest, it's because they simply don't respect the moment, nor their fellow 'fans'.

But a purposeful protest is another matter altogether. Consciously saying to fellow Americans that we should live more fully up to our country's ideals and aspirations.

And BTW, I suspect a lot of those I see being disrespectful at sporting events are the same sorts who would be blowhards about an African American athlete protesting for racial justice.

My questions about blind obeisance started in elementary school when we all were instructed to stand, place our hands over our hearts and recite a sales promo authored by a flag salesman in the early 20th century. And great it is has been and could continue to be. However, their have been significant injustices and will continue to be if we do not acknowledge the past and confront the continued issues that flow from same.

Public occasions like this and the playing of the national anthem with its troubled history aren't moments of disregard for me, but moments to reflect on the gap between the "Norman Rockwell" image promulgated by these displays and the reality of the history of our great nation. So, I will sit quietly and let others perform whatever rituals they wish without comment or interruption. I extend to others the same right and expectation of public comportment.

Whatever you do, don't sit in judgment of my patriotism. I'll express my opinions and beliefs whenever and wherever I so choose.


“A lady asked Dr. Franklin Well Doctor what have we got a republic or a monarchy. A republic replied the Doctor if you can keep it.”

This comment led me to find out a little more.

OMG, a socialist! https://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm

And a racist one to boot:

'Bellamy, a former Baptist preacher, had irritated his Boston Brahmin flock with his socialist ideas. But as a writer and publicist at the Companion, he let ’em rip. In a series of speeches and editorials that were equal parts marketing, political theory and racism, he argued that Gilded Age capitalism, along with “every alien immigrant of inferior race,” eroded traditional values, and that pledging allegiance would ensure “that the distinctive principles of true Americanism will not perish as long as free, public education endures.”'

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... 180956332/

About the flag sales:

'Francis Bellamy, a Christian minister, penned the patriotic sentence in 1892 to mark the 400th anniversary of Christopher Columbus’s arrival in the Americas. He wrote at the time for a general-interest magazine called the Youth’s Companion, which published the pledge to encourage schoolchildren to recite it each morning.

Schools would need to purchase flags for students to do so, according to pledge expert Shelley Lapkoff, and the magazine just happened to sell them.

“It was both to get people to have flags, in keeping with their belief of patriotism, and then also to help their business,” Lapkoff said. “I believe the reason that flags are so predominant in our culture is because of the Pledge of Allegiance and this mass-marketing campaign that went on.”

It’s still a public-school tradition to say the pledge each morning, though the accompanying gesture has switched from an outstretched hand to a hand-over-heart salute, according to Elizabeth Brown, a reference librarian at the Library of Congress.

“It’s just so much a part of the fabric of American society,” Brown said. “We all grew up with it in our schools and our scout meetings and at so many events.”'

Want some real American originalism and exceptionalism? Try eugenics.

"The American eugenics movement was formed during the late nineteenth century and continued as late as the 1940s. The American eugenics movement embraced negative eugenics, with the goal to eliminate undesirable genetic traits in the human race through selective breeding. During the American eugenics movement, laws were enacted that legalized forced sterilizations and prohibited individuals that had mental or physical defects and couples of mixed-race from marrying (Bouche & Rivard, 2014)."

https://sites.uw.edu/twomn347/2019/12/1 ... -movement/

And continues to this day... See the forced sterilization of Britney Spears for an example.

'At the end of her passionate, 24-minute speech, Spears dropped a final bombshell of an accusation: Her “so-called team” refused to let her remove the intrauterine contraceptive device (IUD) implanted inside her, preventing her from having more children.'

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-a ... parenthood

Yep, all good here. No issues from our past that need top be dragged out into the light.

"The next time allegations surface that ICE detention centers are coercively sterilizing people without informed consent, I hope that [people] are as outraged as they are about Britney Spears’ situation. The next time that allegations surface that prisons in California or the next state have been sterilizing folks without informed consent."

... where do you think Hitler got his ideas about eugenics? In the 30's the USA was #1 in theory and practice, but our student quickly surpassed us. History of eugenics. Is it ok to mention this? Could trigger some anti-critical race theory snowflake that doesn't want America's real history to get out.

I refrained from mentioning that little fact. Some people with delicate psyches can only take so much reality per day...

[cradleandshoot]

So blatantly disregarding the anthem/flag of a country during a sporting event does not express positive or negative thoughts of said country?

Hmmm. Seems a bit of a stretch.

Perhaps all athletes should use the Olympics and medal stand as a stage to protest.

Perhaps an American could act this way during the Chinese anthem? Or Russian?

It isn’t disrespect. It’s out of love!

Kram, as someone who gets annoyed when the anthem strikes up and see lots of guys leave their hats on, continue talking, drink their beer etc, I agree that it's disrespectful. It's not a protest, it's because they simply don't respect the moment, nor their fellow 'fans'.

But a purposeful protest is another matter altogether. Consciously saying to fellow Americans that we should live more fully up to our country's ideals and aspirations.

And BTW, I suspect a lot of those I see being disrespectful at sporting events are the same sorts who would be blowhards about an African American athlete protesting for racial justice.

My questions about blind obeisance started in elementary school when we all were instructed to stand, place our hands over our hearts and recite a sales promo authored by a flag salesman in the early 20th century. And great it is has been and could continue to be. However, their have been significant injustices and will continue to be if we do not acknowledge the past and confront the continued issues that flow from same.

Public occasions like this and the playing of the national anthem with its troubled history aren't moments of disregard for me, but moments to reflect on the gap between the "Norman Rockwell" image promulgated by these displays and the reality of the history of our great nation. So, I will sit quietly and let others perform whatever rituals they wish without comment or interruption. I extend to others the same right and expectation of public comportment.

Whatever you do, don't sit in judgment of my patriotism. I'll express my opinions and beliefs whenever and wherever I so choose.


“A lady asked Dr. Franklin Well Doctor what have we got a republic or a monarchy. A republic replied the Doctor if you can keep it.”

This comment led me to find out a little more.

OMG, a socialist! https://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm

And a racist one to boot:

'Bellamy, a former Baptist preacher, had irritated his Boston Brahmin flock with his socialist ideas. But as a writer and publicist at the Companion, he let ’em rip. In a series of speeches and editorials that were equal parts marketing, political theory and racism, he argued that Gilded Age capitalism, along with “every alien immigrant of inferior race,” eroded traditional values, and that pledging allegiance would ensure “that the distinctive principles of true Americanism will not perish as long as free, public education endures.”'

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... 180956332/

About the flag sales:

'Francis Bellamy, a Christian minister, penned the patriotic sentence in 1892 to mark the 400th anniversary of Christopher Columbus’s arrival in the Americas. He wrote at the time for a general-interest magazine called the Youth’s Companion, which published the pledge to encourage schoolchildren to recite it each morning.

Schools would need to purchase flags for students to do so, according to pledge expert Shelley Lapkoff, and the magazine just happened to sell them.

“It was both to get people to have flags, in keeping with their belief of patriotism, and then also to help their business,” Lapkoff said. “I believe the reason that flags are so predominant in our culture is because of the Pledge of Allegiance and this mass-marketing campaign that went on.”

It’s still a public-school tradition to say the pledge each morning, though the accompanying gesture has switched from an outstretched hand to a hand-over-heart salute, according to Elizabeth Brown, a reference librarian at the Library of Congress.

“It’s just so much a part of the fabric of American society,” Brown said. “We all grew up with it in our schools and our scout meetings and at so many events.”'

Want some real American originalism and exceptionalism? Try eugenics.

"The American eugenics movement was formed during the late nineteenth century and continued as late as the 1940s. The American eugenics movement embraced negative eugenics, with the goal to eliminate undesirable genetic traits in the human race through selective breeding. During the American eugenics movement, laws were enacted that legalized forced sterilizations and prohibited individuals that had mental or physical defects and couples of mixed-race from marrying (Bouche & Rivard, 2014)."

https://sites.uw.edu/twomn347/2019/12/1 ... -movement/

And continues to this day... See the forced sterilization of Britney Spears for an example.

'At the end of her passionate, 24-minute speech, Spears dropped a final bombshell of an accusation: Her “so-called team” refused to let her remove the intrauterine contraceptive device (IUD) implanted inside her, preventing her from having more children.'

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-a ... parenthood

Yep, all good here. No issues from our past that need top be dragged out into the light.

"The next time allegations surface that ICE detention centers are coercively sterilizing people without informed consent, I hope that [people] are as outraged as they are about Britney Spears’ situation. The next time that allegations surface that prisons in California or the next state have been sterilizing folks without informed consent."

... where do you think Hitler got his ideas about eugenics? In the 30's the USA was #1 in theory and practice, but our student quickly surpassed us. History of eugenics. Is it ok to mention this? Could trigger some anti-critical race theory snowflake that doesn't want America's real history to get out.

I refrained from mentioning that little fact. Some people with delicate psyches can only take so much reality per day...

Talk about delicate psyches. I wonder how many of those billion of chicoms will ever hear about the 10s of millions of innocent Chinese citizens murdered under Chairman Mao. Pardon the interruption while you folks go back to lecturing all of us about Hitler.

[jhu72]

Pizza and I would be happy to talk to them if you can get us an introduction, although I am pretty sure they know the gross outline of the story.

[cradleandshoot]

Pizza and I would be hap inpy to talk to them if you can get us an introduction, although I am pretty sure they know the gross outline of the story.

Hey, I would have thought an extended tour of communist china would have always been one of the things on your bucket list. It would be sort of like going back to your roots and reinvigorating all the things you believe in. Don't forget to bring your copy of the little red book.

[Typical Lax Dad]

So blatantly disregarding the anthem/flag of a country during a sporting event does not express positive or negative thoughts of said country?

Hmmm. Seems a bit of a stretch.

Perhaps all athletes should use the Olympics and medal stand as a stage to protest.

Perhaps an American could act this way during the Chinese anthem? Or Russian?

It isn’t disrespect. It’s out of love!

Kram, as someone who gets annoyed when the anthem strikes up and see lots of guys leave their hats on, continue talking, drink their beer etc, I agree that it's disrespectful. It's not a protest, it's because they simply don't respect the moment, nor their fellow 'fans'.

But a purposeful protest is another matter altogether. Consciously saying to fellow Americans that we should live more fully up to our country's ideals and aspirations.

And BTW, I suspect a lot of those I see being disrespectful at sporting events are the same sorts who would be blowhards about an African American athlete protesting for racial justice.

My questions about blind obeisance started in elementary school when we all were instructed to stand, place our hands over our hearts and recite a sales promo authored by a flag salesman in the early 20th century. And great it is has been and could continue to be. However, their have been significant injustices and will continue to be if we do not acknowledge the past and confront the continued issues that flow from same.

Public occasions like this and the playing of the national anthem with its troubled history aren't moments of disregard for me, but moments to reflect on the gap between the "Norman Rockwell" image promulgated by these displays and the reality of the history of our great nation. So, I will sit quietly and let others perform whatever rituals they wish without comment or interruption. I extend to others the same right and expectation of public comportment.

Whatever you do, don't sit in judgment of my patriotism. I'll express my opinions and beliefs whenever and wherever I so choose.


“A lady asked Dr. Franklin Well Doctor what have we got a republic or a monarchy. A republic replied the Doctor if you can keep it.”

This comment led me to find out a little more.

OMG, a socialist! https://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm

And a racist one to boot:

'Bellamy, a former Baptist preacher, had irritated his Boston Brahmin flock with his socialist ideas. But as a writer and publicist at the Companion, he let ’em rip. In a series of speeches and editorials that were equal parts marketing, political theory and racism, he argued that Gilded Age capitalism, along with “every alien immigrant of inferior race,” eroded traditional values, and that pledging allegiance would ensure “that the distinctive principles of true Americanism will not perish as long as free, public education endures.”'

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... 180956332/

About the flag sales:

'Francis Bellamy, a Christian minister, penned the patriotic sentence in 1892 to mark the 400th anniversary of Christopher Columbus’s arrival in the Americas. He wrote at the time for a general-interest magazine called the Youth’s Companion, which published the pledge to encourage schoolchildren to recite it each morning.

Schools would need to purchase flags for students to do so, according to pledge expert Shelley Lapkoff, and the magazine just happened to sell them.

“It was both to get people to have flags, in keeping with their belief of patriotism, and then also to help their business,” Lapkoff said. “I believe the reason that flags are so predominant in our culture is because of the Pledge of Allegiance and this mass-marketing campaign that went on.”

It’s still a public-school tradition to say the pledge each morning, though the accompanying gesture has switched from an outstretched hand to a hand-over-heart salute, according to Elizabeth Brown, a reference librarian at the Library of Congress.

“It’s just so much a part of the fabric of American society,” Brown said. “We all grew up with it in our schools and our scout meetings and at so many events.”'

Want some real American originalism and exceptionalism? Try eugenics.

"The American eugenics movement was formed during the late nineteenth century and continued as late as the 1940s. The American eugenics movement embraced negative eugenics, with the goal to eliminate undesirable genetic traits in the human race through selective breeding. During the American eugenics movement, laws were enacted that legalized forced sterilizations and prohibited individuals that had mental or physical defects and couples of mixed-race from marrying (Bouche & Rivard, 2014)."

https://sites.uw.edu/twomn347/2019/12/1 ... -movement/

And continues to this day... See the forced sterilization of Britney Spears for an example.

'At the end of her passionate, 24-minute speech, Spears dropped a final bombshell of an accusation: Her “so-called team” refused to let her remove the intrauterine contraceptive device (IUD) implanted inside her, preventing her from having more children.'

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-a ... parenthood

Yep, all good here. No issues from our past that need top be dragged out into the light.

"The next time allegations surface that ICE detention centers are coercively sterilizing people without informed consent, I hope that [people] are as outraged as they are about Britney Spears’ situation. The next time that allegations surface that prisons in California or the next state have been sterilizing folks without informed consent."

... where do you think Hitler got his ideas about eugenics? In the 30's the USA was #1 in theory and practice, but our student quickly surpassed us. History of eugenics. Is it ok to mention this? Could trigger some anti-critical race theory snowflake that doesn't want America's real history to get out.

I refrained from mentioning that little fact. Some people with delicate psyches can only take so much reality per day...

Talk about delicate psyches. I wonder how many of those billion of chicoms will ever hear about the 10s of millions of innocent Chinese citizens murdered under Chairman Mao. Pardon the interruption while you folks go back to lecturing all of us about Hitler.

Talk about delicate psyches…..Indigenous people north and south were displaced, died of disease, and were killed by Europeans through slavery, rape, and war. In 1491, about 145 million people lived in the western hemisphere. By 1691, the population of indigenous Americans had declined by 90–95 percent, or by around 130 million people.

That be some killin’. Pardon the interruption while you go back to reaping the benefits of a privileged life on native land.

[Peter Brown]

Everyone is a racist.

https://nypost.com/2021/06/28/scottie-p ... ng-racist/

[PizzaSnake]

Everyone is a racist.

https://nypost.com/2021/06/28/scottie-p ... ng-racist/

Indeed we are. Some of realize it and try to do better instead of denying and wallowing in moral turpitude.

[Peter Brown]

Everyone is a racist.

https://nypost.com/2021/06/28/scottie-p ... ng-racist/

Indeed we are. Some of realize it and try to do better instead of denying and wallowing in moral turpitude.

Or you’re just preening for others to congratulate you.

[PizzaSnake]

Everyone is a racist.

https://nypost.com/2021/06/28/scottie-p ... ng-racist/

Indeed we are. Some of realize it and try to do better instead of denying and wallowing in moral turpitude.

Or you’re just preening for others to congratulate you.

That’s it. Now start stroking.

[Peter Brown]

Rochester NY is in free fall.

Holy smokes.

https://twitter.com/anthea06274890/stat ... 85667?s=21

Mayor defunded the police. Brawls at 1 am. No cops. As bad as Baltimore. These cities are hosed. Democrats are exposing your families to violence, but mostly they’re exposing POC.

Aftermath.

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/roche ... arking-lot