Progressive Ideology

[PizzaSnake]

Go away, troll.

When your representing your COUNTRY your representing all Americans. If you can't put your personal biases against your country on the sidelines for 10 days. Then stay home and stand by your principles. IMO her coach should have had a heart to heart with her and put it in no uncertain terms. She could choose to make up her own mind. If she can't then the coach should find another athlete to take her place.

yup, that's you think...that it's based on a lie about the reasoning folks like this gal have ("they hate their country", they have "personal biases against their country") is of no matter to you. Ignore their reasoning, all that matters is your assumptions, wrong as they may be.

Got it.

In this instance I don't care about their reasoning. If your beliefs are so strong, stay home. They are going to embarrass their team mates and their country with a selfish protest against their country. Yes I believe it is a symbolic gesture showing hatred and contempt towards your country. I think her behavior was contemptible, you think she a modern day heroine. Got it Lima Charlie. In my world her coach tells her to pack her bags and go home. That would be mean spirited wouldn't it?

Well, in the real world, the coach gets sent home.
But hey, go ahead and move to China or NK if you want it the other way.

No, I don't think she's a heroine.
And I'd prefer that she had another way to express her views.

However, I respect the intent of such protests, and I fully accept that those who protest typically love our country's ideals and best aspirations. Doesn't mean that a protester couldn't 'hate' or have 'contempt' for the country, but I don't read any of that in these particular sorts of protests, certainly not automatically.

I do not respect the intent of her protest. She is not Colin Kaepernick, she is SUPPOSE to be representing the United States of America. She has to have to have the ability to put aside her political beliefs and animosity for as long as she has been given this honor and this opportunity that many thousands of athletes would give anything to achieve.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/3166837/ol ... y-us-flag/

This picture is worth a thousand words IMO. Her 2 team mates are standing on the podium with their hands on their hearts. She is standing there sulking. She even comments in the article she was pi**ed they had the audacity to play that anthem while she was standing up there. I hope here coach and or whoever is in charge of our olympic athletes kicks her sorry ass of the team. She does not deserve to represent America. She has the right to her opinion but not at the expense of humiliating and embarrassing the entire US team. Which is exactly what she did, at least in my eyes she did.

I’m not saying this is true of MD per se, but most liberals don’t really subscribe to American pride and excellence, so the Olympics to them is about individual effort rather than country unity.

Half of America sees the world differently very differently than the other half.

The thing is, the Left will ultimately ruin the Olympics spirit, just as they ruin most other things. Americans will find alternative sports heroes to cheer. Nelly Korda is a great example of a person that Americans can happily cheer, and she will appreciate their support.

For the Olympics, the left will now pressure all blacks and wobbly whites to celebrate woke protests, and you will see a number of other athletes do what Gwen did, likely even worse (I can totally see one athlete burn the American flag, that protest that MD celebrates as uniquely American and something to laud).

And the decline of the Olympics, at least from an American perspective, will accelerate. The left are locusts, stripping all life from whatever they attack.

What is being overlooked here should be as plain as the nose on our faces. What is the goal of the US Olympic team besides winning medals? The games and the team are suppose to put American fannies in front of their TV sets to watch the games and support their favorite athletes. Unless this woman is given the boot, I won't watch one single second of the Olympics. I'm guessing and hoping that millions more of my fellow Americans join me in doing so. If this person can protest with no repercussions then Americans can protest as well by refusing to watch. I'm guessing that the TV executives of whatever network that is televising the games understand the possible problem they will have with ratings very well. There is nothing like having an athlete throw a live hand grenade into the middle of the audience you are trying to attract.
Full disclosure here, I normally would not watch very much of the Olympics. The decision to ignore the games completely was just made a whole lot easier.

This of course is the risk liberals take when pushing the envelope of America hatred. I hate cancel culture with passion, but my suspicion is many fewer viewers will tune in to American hating athletes who proudly wear their hatred on their sleeves.

People love sports. But normal Americans prefer the politics to be left behind. The left is not that. They want politics first.

It’ll be interesting to see how quickly Puma drops their sponsorship of Gwen when she fails to get into the final round let alone actually wins. She’s about the 40th ranked in the world for the hammer toss. Puma picks her over the two American gals who are better than she is, for the reasons that they think the jhu72’s of the world outnumber patriotic Americans. Bad bet.

Meanwhile, viewers like you will ignore the telly because of the growing ‘protests’ (errr, hatred of America).

Here’s a good bet. Over under on how many American athletes do what Gwen does? Will they even participate in an opening ceremony?

My guess is that the TV ratings will go righter down the crapper. It is difficult to me to understand how our country could screw up the Olympics... but it looks like we found a way.

Good riddance to bad rubbish. Turn off your TV, read, learn, and engage in spirited debate, and contribute to the civil discourse of an involved, critical-thinking polity.

It's okay to disagree, but you need to explain and justify your positions beyond "cause Jeebus, my neighbor or some TV tool says so."

[Peter Brown]

So blatantly disregarding the anthem/flag of a country during a sporting event does not express positive or negative thoughts of said country?

Hmmm. Seems a bit of a stretch.

Perhaps all athletes should use the Olympics and medal stand as a stage to protest.

Perhaps an American could act this way during the Chinese anthem? Or Russian?

It isn’t disrespect. It’s out of love!

The left, as seen even here on a lacrosse forum, will bend over backwards to justify Gwen’s ‘protest’. They’ll claim it’s not hating on America, it’s actually loving America.

To the sane among us, Gwen hates America. Many on the left do. It’s their jam.

Gwen’s agent begged her to recant a tad. But if you go back months on her Twitter feed, you’ll find more of what she said after the event ‘the American flag has never meant anything to me’ etc.

I’m no fan of forced patriotism, it seems unamerican to demand others to love the country as you do. I’d simply prefer she either pipe down about the hatred and not be so obvious, or simply give up her spot to someone who wants to be there for the right reasons. The real bummer to me is now we have to suffer all the left nitwits who claim hating America is loving America.

[jhu72]

So blatantly disregarding the anthem/flag of a country during a sporting event does not express positive or negative thoughts of said country?

Hmmm. Seems a bit of a stretch.

Perhaps all athletes should use the Olympics and medal stand as a stage to protest.

Perhaps an American could act this way during the Chinese anthem? Or Russian?

It isn’t disrespect. It’s out of love!

The left, as seen even here on a lacrosse forum, will bend over backwards to justify Gwen’s ‘protest’. They’ll claim it’s not hating on America, it’s actually loving America.

To the sane among us, Gwen hates America. Many on the left do. It’s their jam.

Gwen’s agent begged her to recant a tad. But if you go back months on her Twitter feed, you’ll find more of what she said after the event ‘the American flag has never meant anything to me’ etc.

I’m no fan of forced patriotism, it seems unamerican to demand others to love the country as you do. I’d simply prefer she either pipe down about the hatred and not be so obvious, or simply give up her spot to someone who wants to be there for the right reasons. The real bummer to me is now we have to suffer all the left nitwits who claim hating America is loving America.

... as usual, you are wrong. The truly sane among us -- DON'T KNOW WHO GWEN IS, and don't give a rats ass! Folks like yourself just want something as a target, even if it has to be made up, to be outraged by. Enjoy your outrage. Whoever Gwen is, she has already won!

[MDlaxfan76]

Go away, troll.

When your representing your COUNTRY your representing all Americans. If you can't put your personal biases against your country on the sidelines for 10 days. Then stay home and stand by your principles. IMO her coach should have had a heart to heart with her and put it in no uncertain terms. She could choose to make up her own mind. If she can't then the coach should find another athlete to take her place.

yup, that's you think...that it's based on a lie about the reasoning folks like this gal have ("they hate their country", they have "personal biases against their country") is of no matter to you. Ignore their reasoning, all that matters is your assumptions, wrong as they may be.

Got it.

In this instance I don't care about their reasoning. If your beliefs are so strong, stay home. They are going to embarrass their team mates and their country with a selfish protest against their country. Yes I believe it is a symbolic gesture showing hatred and contempt towards your country. I think her behavior was contemptible, you think she a modern day heroine. Got it Lima Charlie. In my world her coach tells her to pack her bags and go home. That would be mean spirited wouldn't it?

Well, in the real world, the coach gets sent home.
But hey, go ahead and move to China or NK if you want it the other way.

No, I don't think she's a heroine.
And I'd prefer that she had another way to express her views.

However, I respect the intent of such protests, and I fully accept that those who protest typically love our country's ideals and best aspirations. Doesn't mean that a protester couldn't 'hate' or have 'contempt' for the country, but I don't read any of that in these particular sorts of protests, certainly not automatically.

I do not respect the intent of her protest. She is not Colin Kaepernick, she is SUPPOSE to be representing the United States of America. She has to have to have the ability to put aside her political beliefs and animosity for as long as she has been given this honor and this opportunity that many thousands of athletes would give anything to achieve.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/3166837/ol ... y-us-flag/

This picture is worth a thousand words IMO. Her 2 team mates are standing on the podium with their hands on their hearts. She is standing there sulking. She even comments in the article she was pi**ed they had the audacity to play that anthem while she was standing up there. I hope here coach and or whoever is in charge of our olympic athletes kicks her sorry ass of the team. She does not deserve to represent America. She has the right to her opinion but not at the expense of humiliating and embarrassing the entire US team. Which is exactly what she did, at least in my eyes she did.

Apparently, the winner of the event was not 'embarrassed' but instead was proud of her.

But hey, you're free to have your opinion, for what it's worth.

[MDlaxfan76]

So blatantly disregarding the anthem/flag of a country during a sporting event does not express positive or negative thoughts of said country?

Hmmm. Seems a bit of a stretch.

Perhaps all athletes should use the Olympics and medal stand as a stage to protest.

Perhaps an American could act this way during the Chinese anthem? Or Russian?

It isn’t disrespect. It’s out of love!

The left, as seen even here on a lacrosse forum, will bend over backwards to justify Gwen’s ‘protest’. They’ll claim it’s not hating on America, it’s actually loving America.

To the sane among us, Gwen hates America. Many on the left do. It’s their jam.

Gwen’s agent begged her to recant a tad. But if you go back months on her Twitter feed, you’ll find more of what she said after the event ‘the American flag has never meant anything to me’ etc.

I’m no fan of forced patriotism, it seems unamerican to demand others to love the country as you do. I’d simply prefer she either pipe down about the hatred and not be so obvious, or simply give up her spot to someone who wants to be there for the right reasons. The real bummer to me is now we have to suffer all the left nitwits who claim hating America is loving America.

... as usual, you are wrong. The truly sane among us -- DON'T KNOW WHO GWEN IS, and don't give a rats ass! Folks like yourself just want something as a target, even if it has to be made up, to be outraged by. Enjoy your outrage. Whoever Gwen is, she has already won!

Ignore the puking twit.

[MDlaxfan76]

So blatantly disregarding the anthem/flag of a country during a sporting event does not express positive or negative thoughts of said country?

Hmmm. Seems a bit of a stretch.

Perhaps all athletes should use the Olympics and medal stand as a stage to protest.

Perhaps an American could act this way during the Chinese anthem? Or Russian?

It isn’t disrespect. It’s out of love!

Kram, as someone who gets annoyed when the anthem strikes up and see lots of guys leave their hats on, continue talking, drink their beer etc, I agree that it's disrespectful. It's not a protest, it's because they simply don't respect the moment, nor their fellow 'fans'.

But a purposeful protest is another matter altogether. Consciously saying to fellow Americans that we should live more fully up to our country's ideals and aspirations.

And BTW, I suspect a lot of those I see being disrespectful at sporting events are the same sorts who would be blowhards about an African American athlete protesting for racial justice.

[PizzaSnake]

So blatantly disregarding the anthem/flag of a country during a sporting event does not express positive or negative thoughts of said country?

Hmmm. Seems a bit of a stretch.

Perhaps all athletes should use the Olympics and medal stand as a stage to protest.

Perhaps an American could act this way during the Chinese anthem? Or Russian?

It isn’t disrespect. It’s out of love!

Kram, as someone who gets annoyed when the anthem strikes up and see lots of guys leave their hats on, continue talking, drink their beer etc, I agree that it's disrespectful. It's not a protest, it's because they simply don't respect the moment, nor their fellow 'fans'.

But a purposeful protest is another matter altogether. Consciously saying to fellow Americans that we should live more fully up to our country's ideals and aspirations.

And BTW, I suspect a lot of those I see being disrespectful at sporting events are the same sorts who would be blowhards about an African American athlete protesting for racial justice.

My questions about blind obeisance started in elementary school when we all were instructed to stand, place our hands over our hearts and recite a sales promo authored by a flag salesman in the early 20th century. And great it is has been and could continue to be. However, their have been significant injustices and will continue to be if we do not acknowledge the past and confront the continued issues that flow from same.

Public occasions like this and the playing of the national anthem with its troubled history aren't moments of disregard for me, but moments to reflect on the gap between the "Norman Rockwell" image promulgated by these displays and the reality of the history of our great nation. So, I will sit quietly and let others perform whatever rituals they wish without comment or interruption. I extend to others the same right and expectation of public comportment.

Whatever you do, don't sit in judgment of my patriotism. I'll express my opinions and beliefs whenever and wherever I so choose.


“A lady asked Dr. Franklin Well Doctor what have we got a republic or a monarchy. A republic replied the Doctor if you can keep it.”

[kramerica.inc]

So blatantly disregarding the anthem/flag of a country during a sporting event does not express positive or negative thoughts of said country?

Hmmm. Seems a bit of a stretch.

Perhaps all athletes should use the Olympics and medal stand as a stage to protest.

Perhaps an American could act this way during the Chinese anthem? Or Russian?

It isn’t disrespect. It’s out of love!

Kram, as someone who gets annoyed when the anthem strikes up and see lots of guys leave their hats on, continue talking, drink their beer etc, I agree that it's disrespectful. It's not a protest, it's because they simply don't respect the moment, nor their fellow 'fans'.

But a purposeful protest is another matter altogether. Consciously saying to fellow Americans that we should live more fully up to our country's ideals and aspirations.

And BTW, I suspect a lot of those I see being disrespectful at sporting events are the same sorts who would be blowhards about an African American athlete protesting for racial justice.

My questions about blind obeisance started in elementary school when we all were instructed to stand, place our hands over our hearts and recite a sales promo authored by a flag salesman in the early 20th century. And great it is has been and could continue to be. However, their have been significant injustices and will continue to be if we do not acknowledge the past and confront the continued issues that flow from same.

Public occasions like this and the playing of the national anthem with its troubled history aren't moments of disregard for me, but moments to reflect on the gap between the "Norman Rockwell" image promulgated by these displays and the reality of the history of our great nation. So, I will sit quietly and let others perform whatever rituals they wish without comment or interruption. I extend to others the same right and expectation of public comportment.

Whatever you do, don't sit in judgment of my patriotism. I'll express my opinions and beliefs whenever and wherever I so choose.


“A lady asked Dr. Franklin Well Doctor what have we got a republic or a monarchy. A republic replied the Doctor if you can keep it.”

You don't stand during the anthem? You just sit quietly?

I don't doubt your belief that you WOULD just sit there. Maybe have even done it once or twice. But my experience sporting events my whole life (including the past year) and the 100% participation rates tell me you participate, more than not.

[PizzaSnake]

So blatantly disregarding the anthem/flag of a country during a sporting event does not express positive or negative thoughts of said country?

Hmmm. Seems a bit of a stretch.

Perhaps all athletes should use the Olympics and medal stand as a stage to protest.

Perhaps an American could act this way during the Chinese anthem? Or Russian?

It isn’t disrespect. It’s out of love!

Kram, as someone who gets annoyed when the anthem strikes up and see lots of guys leave their hats on, continue talking, drink their beer etc, I agree that it's disrespectful. It's not a protest, it's because they simply don't respect the moment, nor their fellow 'fans'.

But a purposeful protest is another matter altogether. Consciously saying to fellow Americans that we should live more fully up to our country's ideals and aspirations.

And BTW, I suspect a lot of those I see being disrespectful at sporting events are the same sorts who would be blowhards about an African American athlete protesting for racial justice.

My questions about blind obeisance started in elementary school when we all were instructed to stand, place our hands over our hearts and recite a sales promo authored by a flag salesman in the early 20th century. And great it is has been and could continue to be. However, their have been significant injustices and will continue to be if we do not acknowledge the past and confront the continued issues that flow from same.

Public occasions like this and the playing of the national anthem with its troubled history aren't moments of disregard for me, but moments to reflect on the gap between the "Norman Rockwell" image promulgated by these displays and the reality of the history of our great nation. So, I will sit quietly and let others perform whatever rituals they wish without comment or interruption. I extend to others the same right and expectation of public comportment.

Whatever you do, don't sit in judgment of my patriotism. I'll express my opinions and beliefs whenever and wherever I so choose.


“A lady asked Dr. Franklin Well Doctor what have we got a republic or a monarchy. A republic replied the Doctor if you can keep it.”

You don't stand during the anthem? You just sit quietly?

I don't doubt your belief that you WOULD just sit there. Maybe have even done it once or twice. But my experience sporting events my whole life (including the past year) and the 100% participation rates tell me you participate, more than not.

As I don't doubt your belief that you think you know anything about me or my behavior. Believe whatever you want; doesn't alter facts.

PS Nothing is 100%, except "taxes, death and trouble." -- Marvin Gaye "Trouble Man"

[MDlaxfan76]

So blatantly disregarding the anthem/flag of a country during a sporting event does not express positive or negative thoughts of said country?

Hmmm. Seems a bit of a stretch.

Perhaps all athletes should use the Olympics and medal stand as a stage to protest.

Perhaps an American could act this way during the Chinese anthem? Or Russian?

It isn’t disrespect. It’s out of love!

Kram, as someone who gets annoyed when the anthem strikes up and see lots of guys leave their hats on, continue talking, drink their beer etc, I agree that it's disrespectful. It's not a protest, it's because they simply don't respect the moment, nor their fellow 'fans'.

But a purposeful protest is another matter altogether. Consciously saying to fellow Americans that we should live more fully up to our country's ideals and aspirations.

And BTW, I suspect a lot of those I see being disrespectful at sporting events are the same sorts who would be blowhards about an African American athlete protesting for racial justice.

My questions about blind obeisance started in elementary school when we all were instructed to stand, place our hands over our hearts and recite a sales promo authored by a flag salesman in the early 20th century. And great it is has been and could continue to be. However, their have been significant injustices and will continue to be if we do not acknowledge the past and confront the continued issues that flow from same.

Public occasions like this and the playing of the national anthem with its troubled history aren't moments of disregard for me, but moments to reflect on the gap between the "Norman Rockwell" image promulgated by these displays and the reality of the history of our great nation. So, I will sit quietly and let others perform whatever rituals they wish without comment or interruption. I extend to others the same right and expectation of public comportment.

Whatever you do, don't sit in judgment of my patriotism. I'll express my opinions and beliefs whenever and wherever I so choose.


“A lady asked Dr. Franklin Well Doctor what have we got a republic or a monarchy. A republic replied the Doctor if you can keep it.”

You don't stand during the anthem? You just sit quietly?

I don't doubt your belief that you WOULD just sit there. Maybe have even done it once or twice. But my experience sporting events my whole life (including the past year) and the 100% participation rates tell me you participate, more than not.

Kram, do you not notice what I do, that a lot of guys keep their hats on, continue to talk or mill about, drink their beer, eat their hotdog...maybe 'standing'? But far from respectful, heck not even paying attention to the moment other than an initial recognition...maybe I'm too critical...

[seacoaster]

I stand during the anthem, hat off, quiet and sometimes sing along. I don't burn the flag. But I do recognize that these sorts of actions represent a very good, exceptionally poignant way to express concern, displeasure or disappointment. The majoritarian need for uniformity of conduct, even among athletes wearing the USA uniform and traveling as part of a Team USA, diminishes us.

[kramerica.inc]

So blatantly disregarding the anthem/flag of a country during a sporting event does not express positive or negative thoughts of said country?

Hmmm. Seems a bit of a stretch.

Perhaps all athletes should use the Olympics and medal stand as a stage to protest.

Perhaps an American could act this way during the Chinese anthem? Or Russian?

It isn’t disrespect. It’s out of love!

Kram, as someone who gets annoyed when the anthem strikes up and see lots of guys leave their hats on, continue talking, drink their beer etc, I agree that it's disrespectful. It's not a protest, it's because they simply don't respect the moment, nor their fellow 'fans'.

But a purposeful protest is another matter altogether. Consciously saying to fellow Americans that we should live more fully up to our country's ideals and aspirations.

And BTW, I suspect a lot of those I see being disrespectful at sporting events are the same sorts who would be blowhards about an African American athlete protesting for racial justice.

My questions about blind obeisance started in elementary school when we all were instructed to stand, place our hands over our hearts and recite a sales promo authored by a flag salesman in the early 20th century. And great it is has been and could continue to be. However, their have been significant injustices and will continue to be if we do not acknowledge the past and confront the continued issues that flow from same.

Public occasions like this and the playing of the national anthem with its troubled history aren't moments of disregard for me, but moments to reflect on the gap between the "Norman Rockwell" image promulgated by these displays and the reality of the history of our great nation. So, I will sit quietly and let others perform whatever rituals they wish without comment or interruption. I extend to others the same right and expectation of public comportment.

Whatever you do, don't sit in judgment of my patriotism. I'll express my opinions and beliefs whenever and wherever I so choose.


“A lady asked Dr. Franklin Well Doctor what have we got a republic or a monarchy. A republic replied the Doctor if you can keep it.”

You don't stand during the anthem? You just sit quietly?

I don't doubt your belief that you WOULD just sit there. Maybe have even done it once or twice. But my experience sporting events my whole life (including the past year) and the 100% participation rates tell me you participate, more than not.

Kram, do you not notice what I do, that a lot of guys keep their hats on, continue to talk or mill about, drink their beer, eat their hotdog...maybe 'standing'? But far from respectful, heck not even paying attention to the moment other than an initial recognition...maybe I'm too critical...

I do notice it. And that's a lot different from what Pizza's talking about. And I also see what peer pressure does to a lot of people. So I question people's true resolve and self. The section I've frequented at Ravens games the past few times doesn't "allow" sitters. Seen it a few times. Human nature is such that my guess is people here, even those showing their dissonance, would get along to go along in real life.

[MDlaxfan76]

So blatantly disregarding the anthem/flag of a country during a sporting event does not express positive or negative thoughts of said country?

Hmmm. Seems a bit of a stretch.

Perhaps all athletes should use the Olympics and medal stand as a stage to protest.

Perhaps an American could act this way during the Chinese anthem? Or Russian?

It isn’t disrespect. It’s out of love!

Kram, as someone who gets annoyed when the anthem strikes up and see lots of guys leave their hats on, continue talking, drink their beer etc, I agree that it's disrespectful. It's not a protest, it's because they simply don't respect the moment, nor their fellow 'fans'.

But a purposeful protest is another matter altogether. Consciously saying to fellow Americans that we should live more fully up to our country's ideals and aspirations.

And BTW, I suspect a lot of those I see being disrespectful at sporting events are the same sorts who would be blowhards about an African American athlete protesting for racial justice.

My questions about blind obeisance started in elementary school when we all were instructed to stand, place our hands over our hearts and recite a sales promo authored by a flag salesman in the early 20th century. And great it is has been and could continue to be. However, their have been significant injustices and will continue to be if we do not acknowledge the past and confront the continued issues that flow from same.

Public occasions like this and the playing of the national anthem with its troubled history aren't moments of disregard for me, but moments to reflect on the gap between the "Norman Rockwell" image promulgated by these displays and the reality of the history of our great nation. So, I will sit quietly and let others perform whatever rituals they wish without comment or interruption. I extend to others the same right and expectation of public comportment.

Whatever you do, don't sit in judgment of my patriotism. I'll express my opinions and beliefs whenever and wherever I so choose.


“A lady asked Dr. Franklin Well Doctor what have we got a republic or a monarchy. A republic replied the Doctor if you can keep it.”

You don't stand during the anthem? You just sit quietly?

I don't doubt your belief that you WOULD just sit there. Maybe have even done it once or twice. But my experience sporting events my whole life (including the past year) and the 100% participation rates tell me you participate, more than not.

Kram, do you not notice what I do, that a lot of guys keep their hats on, continue to talk or mill about, drink their beer, eat their hotdog...maybe 'standing'? But far from respectful, heck not even paying attention to the moment other than an initial recognition...maybe I'm too critical...

I do notice it. And that's a lot different from what Pizza's talking about. And I also see what peer pressure does to a lot of people. So I question people's true resolve and self. The section I've frequented at Ravens games the past few times doesn't "allow" sitters. Seen it a few times. Human nature is such that my guess is people here, even those showing their dissonance, would get along to go along in real life.

Well, that's certainly true...we all tend to 'conform' to some extent to the expectations around us, often unconsciously. And yet, despite the expectations that we do more than simply stand, lots of people continue to talk and drink beer etc.

I'm simply saying that when an act is consciously taken to express oneself, especially a public figure who knows that many are watching, it's less likely to be an act of 'hate' or 'contempt' etc for country than a challenge to it to do better.

And if pizza is saying that he's conscious of what he does, realizing that others may notice, I take him at his word that it's not "disregard" much less 'disrespect', but rather a considered personal choice.

[cradleandshoot]

Go away, troll.

When your representing your COUNTRY your representing all Americans. If you can't put your personal biases against your country on the sidelines for 10 days. Then stay home and stand by your principles. IMO her coach should have had a heart to heart with her and put it in no uncertain terms. She could choose to make up her own mind. If she can't then the coach should find another athlete to take her place.

yup, that's you think...that it's based on a lie about the reasoning folks like this gal have ("they hate their country", they have "personal biases against their country") is of no matter to you. Ignore their reasoning, all that matters is your assumptions, wrong as they may be.

Got it.

In this instance I don't care about their reasoning. If your beliefs are so strong, stay home. They are going to embarrass their team mates and their country with a selfish protest against their country. Yes I believe it is a symbolic gesture showing hatred and contempt towards your country. I think her behavior was contemptible, you think she a modern day heroine. Got it Lima Charlie. In my world her coach tells her to pack her bags and go home. That would be mean spirited wouldn't it?

Well, in the real world, the coach gets sent home.
But hey, go ahead and move to China or NK if you want it the other way.

No, I don't think she's a heroine.
And I'd prefer that she had another way to express her views.

However, I respect the intent of such protests, and I fully accept that those who protest typically love our country's ideals and best aspirations. Doesn't mean that a protester couldn't 'hate' or have 'contempt' for the country, but I don't read any of that in these particular sorts of protests, certainly not automatically.

I do not respect the intent of her protest. She is not Colin Kaepernick, she is SUPPOSE to be representing the United States of America. She has to have to have the ability to put aside her political beliefs and animosity for as long as she has been given this honor and this opportunity that many thousands of athletes would give anything to achieve.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/3166837/ol ... y-us-flag/

This picture is worth a thousand words IMO. Her 2 team mates are standing on the podium with their hands on their hearts. She is standing there sulking. She even comments in the article she was pi**ed they had the audacity to play that anthem while she was standing up there. I hope here coach and or whoever is in charge of our olympic athletes kicks her sorry ass of the team. She does not deserve to represent America. She has the right to her opinion but not at the expense of humiliating and embarrassing the entire US team. Which is exactly what she did, at least in my eyes she did.

Apparently, the winner of the event was not 'embarrassed' but instead was proud of her.

But hey, you're free to have your opinion, for what it's worth.

I have my opinion. I wish they would do a poll of every athlete in the team. FTR, what do you think her team mate was suppose to say? Then she would have chuckle heads of your opinion raking her over the coals for her insensitivity. Better to follow popular opinion than to stray off of the reservation.

[MDlaxfan76]

Go away, troll.

When your representing your COUNTRY your representing all Americans. If you can't put your personal biases against your country on the sidelines for 10 days. Then stay home and stand by your principles. IMO her coach should have had a heart to heart with her and put it in no uncertain terms. She could choose to make up her own mind. If she can't then the coach should find another athlete to take her place.

yup, that's you think...that it's based on a lie about the reasoning folks like this gal have ("they hate their country", they have "personal biases against their country") is of no matter to you. Ignore their reasoning, all that matters is your assumptions, wrong as they may be.

Got it.

In this instance I don't care about their reasoning. If your beliefs are so strong, stay home. They are going to embarrass their team mates and their country with a selfish protest against their country. Yes I believe it is a symbolic gesture showing hatred and contempt towards your country. I think her behavior was contemptible, you think she a modern day heroine. Got it Lima Charlie. In my world her coach tells her to pack her bags and go home. That would be mean spirited wouldn't it?

Well, in the real world, the coach gets sent home.
But hey, go ahead and move to China or NK if you want it the other way.

No, I don't think she's a heroine.
And I'd prefer that she had another way to express her views.

However, I respect the intent of such protests, and I fully accept that those who protest typically love our country's ideals and best aspirations. Doesn't mean that a protester couldn't 'hate' or have 'contempt' for the country, but I don't read any of that in these particular sorts of protests, certainly not automatically.

I do not respect the intent of her protest. She is not Colin Kaepernick, she is SUPPOSE to be representing the United States of America. She has to have to have the ability to put aside her political beliefs and animosity for as long as she has been given this honor and this opportunity that many thousands of athletes would give anything to achieve.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/3166837/ol ... y-us-flag/

This picture is worth a thousand words IMO. Her 2 team mates are standing on the podium with their hands on their hearts. She is standing there sulking. She even comments in the article she was pi**ed they had the audacity to play that anthem while she was standing up there. I hope here coach and or whoever is in charge of our olympic athletes kicks her sorry ass of the team. She does not deserve to represent America. She has the right to her opinion but not at the expense of humiliating and embarrassing the entire US team. Which is exactly what she did, at least in my eyes she did.

Apparently, the winner of the event was not 'embarrassed' but instead was proud of her.

But hey, you're free to have your opinion, for what it's worth.

I have my opinion. I wish they would do a poll of every athlete in the team. FTR, what do you think her team mate was suppose to say? Then she would have chuckle heads of your opinion raking her over the coals for her insensitivity. Better to follow popular opinion than to stray off of the reservation.

Ahhh, so now the team mate is lying?
She was rather strong in her statement, could have simply said it was 'ok' by her. No one would have sweated her for that. But nope, "proud"...

Come on cradle...maybe these athletes actually support the cause of racial justice.

Probably not all, but given the age range and the general diversity of the athlete pool, it's quite likely that they are quite similar in their views to other young, diverse Americans. And that's pretty overwhelming in support.

[cradleandshoot]

Go away, troll.

When your representing your COUNTRY your representing all Americans. If you can't put your personal biases against your country on the sidelines for 10 days. Then stay home and stand by your principles. IMO her coach should have had a heart to heart with her and put it in no uncertain terms. She could choose to make up her own mind. If she can't then the coach should find another athlete to take her place.

yup, that's you think...that it's based on a lie about the reasoning folks like this gal have ("they hate their country", they have "personal biases against their country") is of no matter to you. Ignore their reasoning, all that matters is your assumptions, wrong as they may be.

Got it.

In this instance I don't care about their reasoning. If your beliefs are so strong, stay home. They are going to embarrass their team mates and their country with a selfish protest against their country. Yes I believe it is a symbolic gesture showing hatred and contempt towards your country. I think her behavior was contemptible, you think she a modern day heroine. Got it Lima Charlie. In my world her coach tells her to pack her bags and go home. That would be mean spirited wouldn't it?

Well, in the real world, the coach gets sent home.
But hey, go ahead and move to China or NK if you want it the other way.

No, I don't think she's a heroine.
And I'd prefer that she had another way to express her views.

However, I respect the intent of such protests, and I fully accept that those who protest typically love our country's ideals and best aspirations. Doesn't mean that a protester couldn't 'hate' or have 'contempt' for the country, but I don't read any of that in these particular sorts of protests, certainly not automatically.

I do not respect the intent of her protest. She is not Colin Kaepernick, she is SUPPOSE to be representing the United States of America. She has to have to have the ability to put aside her political beliefs and animosity for as long as she has been given this honor and this opportunity that many thousands of athletes would give anything to achieve.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/3166837/ol ... y-us-flag/

This picture is worth a thousand words IMO. Her 2 team mates are standing on the podium with their hands on their hearts. She is standing there sulking. She even comments in the article she was pi**ed they had the audacity to play that anthem while she was standing up there. I hope here coach and or whoever is in charge of our olympic athletes kicks her sorry ass of the team. She does not deserve to represent America. She has the right to her opinion but not at the expense of humiliating and embarrassing the entire US team. Which is exactly what she did, at least in my eyes she did.

Apparently, the winner of the event was not 'embarrassed' but instead was proud of her.

But hey, you're free to have your opinion, for what it's worth.

I have my opinion. I wish they would do a poll of every athlete in the team. FTR, what do you think her team mate was suppose to say? Then she would have chuckle heads of your opinion raking her over the coals for her insensitivity. Better to follow popular opinion than to stray off of the reservation.

Ahhh, so now the team mate is lying?
She was rather strong in her statement, could have simply said it was 'ok' by her. No one would have sweated her for that. But nope, "proud"...

Come on cradle...maybe these athletes actually support the cause of racial justice.

Probably not all, but given the age range and the general diversity of the athlete pool, it's quite likely that they are quite similar in their views to other young, diverse Americans. And that's pretty overwhelming in support.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fac ... 345416001/

Take your gripe to the IOC and the Japanese hosts. They don't want to see this type of chit during the games. So it ain't just me skippy. I will accept your humble apology at any time. You may decide to give the IOC and the Japanese hosts a piece of your mind as well...

[Peter Brown]

Go away, troll.

When your representing your COUNTRY your representing all Americans. If you can't put your personal biases against your country on the sidelines for 10 days. Then stay home and stand by your principles. IMO her coach should have had a heart to heart with her and put it in no uncertain terms. She could choose to make up her own mind. If she can't then the coach should find another athlete to take her place.

yup, that's you think...that it's based on a lie about the reasoning folks like this gal have ("they hate their country", they have "personal biases against their country") is of no matter to you. Ignore their reasoning, all that matters is your assumptions, wrong as they may be.

Got it.

In this instance I don't care about their reasoning. If your beliefs are so strong, stay home. They are going to embarrass their team mates and their country with a selfish protest against their country. Yes I believe it is a symbolic gesture showing hatred and contempt towards your country. I think her behavior was contemptible, you think she a modern day heroine. Got it Lima Charlie. In my world her coach tells her to pack her bags and go home. That would be mean spirited wouldn't it?

Well, in the real world, the coach gets sent home.
But hey, go ahead and move to China or NK if you want it the other way.

No, I don't think she's a heroine.
And I'd prefer that she had another way to express her views.

However, I respect the intent of such protests, and I fully accept that those who protest typically love our country's ideals and best aspirations. Doesn't mean that a protester couldn't 'hate' or have 'contempt' for the country, but I don't read any of that in these particular sorts of protests, certainly not automatically.

I do not respect the intent of her protest. She is not Colin Kaepernick, she is SUPPOSE to be representing the United States of America. She has to have to have the ability to put aside her political beliefs and animosity for as long as she has been given this honor and this opportunity that many thousands of athletes would give anything to achieve.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/3166837/ol ... y-us-flag/

This picture is worth a thousand words IMO. Her 2 team mates are standing on the podium with their hands on their hearts. She is standing there sulking. She even comments in the article she was pi**ed they had the audacity to play that anthem while she was standing up there. I hope here coach and or whoever is in charge of our olympic athletes kicks her sorry ass of the team. She does not deserve to represent America. She has the right to her opinion but not at the expense of humiliating and embarrassing the entire US team. Which is exactly what she did, at least in my eyes she did.

Apparently, the winner of the event was not 'embarrassed' but instead was proud of her.

But hey, you're free to have your opinion, for what it's worth.

I have my opinion. I wish they would do a poll of every athlete in the team. FTR, what do you think her team mate was suppose to say? Then she would have chuckle heads of your opinion raking her over the coals for her insensitivity. Better to follow popular opinion than to stray off of the reservation.

Ahhh, so now the team mate is lying?
She was rather strong in her statement, could have simply said it was 'ok' by her. No one would have sweated her for that. But nope, "proud"...

Come on cradle...maybe these athletes actually support the cause of racial justice.

Probably not all, but given the age range and the general diversity of the athlete pool, it's quite likely that they are quite similar in their views to other young, diverse Americans. And that's pretty overwhelming in support.

And here’s where MD can’t help himself.

Of course Cradle is correct. It’s a simple common sense observation. No rational human being would object. The teammate had zero option. If she said anything other than what she did, the Left would destroy her.

But MD has a need to double down on woke stupidity, mainly because he’s painted himself in a corner owing to the TDS. It’s all Orwellian doublespeak. War is peace. Antifa are peaceful. Hating America is loving America.

What clowns.

[MDlaxfan76]

Go away, troll.

When your representing your COUNTRY your representing all Americans. If you can't put your personal biases against your country on the sidelines for 10 days. Then stay home and stand by your principles. IMO her coach should have had a heart to heart with her and put it in no uncertain terms. She could choose to make up her own mind. If she can't then the coach should find another athlete to take her place.

yup, that's you think...that it's based on a lie about the reasoning folks like this gal have ("they hate their country", they have "personal biases against their country") is of no matter to you. Ignore their reasoning, all that matters is your assumptions, wrong as they may be.

Got it.

In this instance I don't care about their reasoning. If your beliefs are so strong, stay home. They are going to embarrass their team mates and their country with a selfish protest against their country. Yes I believe it is a symbolic gesture showing hatred and contempt towards your country. I think her behavior was contemptible, you think she a modern day heroine. Got it Lima Charlie. In my world her coach tells her to pack her bags and go home. That would be mean spirited wouldn't it?

Well, in the real world, the coach gets sent home.
But hey, go ahead and move to China or NK if you want it the other way.

No, I don't think she's a heroine.
And I'd prefer that she had another way to express her views.

However, I respect the intent of such protests, and I fully accept that those who protest typically love our country's ideals and best aspirations. Doesn't mean that a protester couldn't 'hate' or have 'contempt' for the country, but I don't read any of that in these particular sorts of protests, certainly not automatically.

I do not respect the intent of her protest. She is not Colin Kaepernick, she is SUPPOSE to be representing the United States of America. She has to have to have the ability to put aside her political beliefs and animosity for as long as she has been given this honor and this opportunity that many thousands of athletes would give anything to achieve.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/3166837/ol ... y-us-flag/

This picture is worth a thousand words IMO. Her 2 team mates are standing on the podium with their hands on their hearts. She is standing there sulking. She even comments in the article she was pi**ed they had the audacity to play that anthem while she was standing up there. I hope here coach and or whoever is in charge of our olympic athletes kicks her sorry ass of the team. She does not deserve to represent America. She has the right to her opinion but not at the expense of humiliating and embarrassing the entire US team. Which is exactly what she did, at least in my eyes she did.

Apparently, the winner of the event was not 'embarrassed' but instead was proud of her.

But hey, you're free to have your opinion, for what it's worth.

I have my opinion. I wish they would do a poll of every athlete in the team. FTR, what do you think her team mate was suppose to say? Then she would have chuckle heads of your opinion raking her over the coals for her insensitivity. Better to follow popular opinion than to stray off of the reservation.

Ahhh, so now the team mate is lying?
She was rather strong in her statement, could have simply said it was 'ok' by her. No one would have sweated her for that. But nope, "proud"...

Come on cradle...maybe these athletes actually support the cause of racial justice.

Probably not all, but given the age range and the general diversity of the athlete pool, it's quite likely that they are quite similar in their views to other young, diverse Americans. And that's pretty overwhelming in support.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fac ... 345416001/

Take your gripe to the IOC and the Japanese hosts. They don't want to see this type of chit during the games. So it ain't just me skippy. I will accept your humble apology at any time. You may decide to give the IOC and the Japanese hosts a piece of your mind as well...

I don't have a 'gripe' cradle, you're the one all twisted up in knots on this.

The United States Olympic Committee authorized protests for the Trials. It's not their call for the Games.
As I said, move to China or NK...heck, a huge part of the world punishes protestors for simply protesting their governments' policies.

Back in the good 'ole USA though,

The U.S. committee said it would allow demonstrations, including kneeling during the national anthem, at Team USA trials.

In December 2020 the U.S. committee said it would no longer punish Team USA athletes who peacefully demonstrate. That doesn't apply to the Tokyo Games overseen by the IOC, however.

The committee did not respond to a request for comment clarifying its position on athletes demonstrating at the Tokyo Games.

The IOC also has distinguished between "expressing views" and protests. Its guidelines say athletes can express opinions during press conferences and media interviews, at team meetings or on traditional and digital media.

[Farfromgeneva]

So blatantly disregarding the anthem/flag of a country during a sporting event does not express positive or negative thoughts of said country?

Hmmm. Seems a bit of a stretch.

Perhaps all athletes should use the Olympics and medal stand as a stage to protest.

Perhaps an American could act this way during the Chinese anthem? Or Russian?

It isn’t disrespect. It’s out of love!

Kram, as someone who gets annoyed when the anthem strikes up and see lots of guys leave their hats on, continue talking, drink their beer etc, I agree that it's disrespectful. It's not a protest, it's because they simply don't respect the moment, nor their fellow 'fans'.

But a purposeful protest is another matter altogether. Consciously saying to fellow Americans that we should live more fully up to our country's ideals and aspirations.

And BTW, I suspect a lot of those I see being disrespectful at sporting events are the same sorts who would be blowhards about an African American athlete protesting for racial justice.

My questions about blind obeisance started in elementary school when we all were instructed to stand, place our hands over our hearts and recite a sales promo authored by a flag salesman in the early 20th century. And great it is has been and could continue to be. However, their have been significant injustices and will continue to be if we do not acknowledge the past and confront the continued issues that flow from same.

Public occasions like this and the playing of the national anthem with its troubled history aren't moments of disregard for me, but moments to reflect on the gap between the "Norman Rockwell" image promulgated by these displays and the reality of the history of our great nation. So, I will sit quietly and let others perform whatever rituals they wish without comment or interruption. I extend to others the same right and expectation of public comportment.

Whatever you do, don't sit in judgment of my patriotism. I'll express my opinions and beliefs whenever and wherever I so choose.


“A lady asked Dr. Franklin Well Doctor what have we got a republic or a monarchy. A republic replied the Doctor if you can keep it.”

You don't stand during the anthem? You just sit quietly?

I don't doubt your belief that you WOULD just sit there. Maybe have even done it once or twice. But my experience sporting events my whole life (including the past year) and the 100% participation rates tell me you participate, more than not.

Kram, do you not notice what I do, that a lot of guys keep their hats on, continue to talk or mill about, drink their beer, eat their hotdog...maybe 'standing'? But far from respectful, heck not even paying attention to the moment other than an initial recognition...maybe I'm too critical...

I do notice it. And that's a lot different from what Pizza's talking about. And I also see what peer pressure does to a lot of people. So I question people's true resolve and self. The section I've frequented at Ravens games the past few times doesn't "allow" sitters. Seen it a few times. Human nature is such that my guess is people here, even those showing their dissonance, would get along to go along in real life.

Ever been to a hockey game? The players mostly bounce around with their legs and sway. See this often w football and
Basketball as well. Less w baseball, which maybe means our immigration policy should be skewed towards that part of the world more?

[SCLaxAttack]

So blatantly disregarding the anthem/flag of a country during a sporting event does not express positive or negative thoughts of said country?

Hmmm. Seems a bit of a stretch.

Perhaps all athletes should use the Olympics and medal stand as a stage to protest.

Perhaps an American could act this way during the Chinese anthem? Or Russian?

It isn’t disrespect. It’s out of love!

Kram, as someone who gets annoyed when the anthem strikes up and see lots of guys leave their hats on, continue talking, drink their beer etc, I agree that it's disrespectful. It's not a protest, it's because they simply don't respect the moment, nor their fellow 'fans'.

But a purposeful protest is another matter altogether. Consciously saying to fellow Americans that we should live more fully up to our country's ideals and aspirations.

And BTW, I suspect a lot of those I see being disrespectful at sporting events are the same sorts who would be blowhards about an African American athlete protesting for racial justice.

My questions about blind obeisance started in elementary school when we all were instructed to stand, place our hands over our hearts and recite a sales promo authored by a flag salesman in the early 20th century. And great it is has been and could continue to be. However, their have been significant injustices and will continue to be if we do not acknowledge the past and confront the continued issues that flow from same.

Public occasions like this and the playing of the national anthem with its troubled history aren't moments of disregard for me, but moments to reflect on the gap between the "Norman Rockwell" image promulgated by these displays and the reality of the history of our great nation. So, I will sit quietly and let others perform whatever rituals they wish without comment or interruption. I extend to others the same right and expectation of public comportment.

Whatever you do, don't sit in judgment of my patriotism. I'll express my opinions and beliefs whenever and wherever I so choose.


“A lady asked Dr. Franklin Well Doctor what have we got a republic or a monarchy. A republic replied the Doctor if you can keep it.”

You don't stand during the anthem? You just sit quietly?

I don't doubt your belief that you WOULD just sit there. Maybe have even done it once or twice. But my experience sporting events my whole life (including the past year) and the 100% participation rates tell me you participate, more than not.

Kram, do you not notice what I do, that a lot of guys keep their hats on, continue to talk or mill about, drink their beer, eat their hotdog...maybe 'standing'? But far from respectful, heck not even paying attention to the moment other than an initial recognition...maybe I'm too critical...

I do notice it. And that's a lot different from what Pizza's talking about. And I also see what peer pressure does to a lot of people. So I question people's true resolve and self. The section I've frequented at Ravens games the past few times doesn't "allow" sitters. Seen it a few times. Human nature is such that my guess is people here, even those showing their dissonance, would get along to go along in real life.

Ever been to a hockey game? The players mostly bounce around with their legs and sway. See this often w football and
Basketball as well. Less w baseball, which maybe means our immigration policy should be skewed towards that part of the world more?

Or maybe not play any anthems before sporting events. Been to plenty of NHL hockey games where the US and Canadian anthems are played. Out of respect I personally choose to stand silently, facing the respective flag, during both. But why just those flags? Plenty of Swedes, Russians, Czechs, etc. on each team, as I'm sure are fans in the arenas. Play a dozen anthems before each game, or none at all.