Coaching Carousel

[laxagainsthumanity]

There are also pros to hiring a young coach. KT may have a rocky first five years, but a great next 25+. Is that worth the investment? Personally I'd say yes.

[Bart]

It is a fair question to ask. From a quick look at the ACC it looks as if Levy, Meyers, AWW now KT all got gigs w/o HC experience. Kimmel started her career as Davidsons Head coach right out of the gate, did that for a year then moved to Duke. So it appears these hiring practices are nothing new.

I don't think Kimel, Levy, Myers really fit in with AWW and KT (Lindsey Munday also fits in with the latter group). Women's lacrosse was a VERY small world in the 1990s and an accomplished playing career was more meaningful then. I don't think that trend has necessarily really continued. AWW put in the work and rose quickly because she's a talented coach, not because she was a talented player. KT is the exception, not the rule, with her alma mater taking a chance on her after she's shown a LOT of potential as a coach in her own right. But look at kids like Apuzzo, Meg Taylor, McCool, etc. who all had phenomenal playing careers and are now putting in the work. Other big hires in recent years have been Kristen Skiera to VT, Scott Teeter to Louisville, Danielle Spencer to Stanford... all of whom had lengthy resumes at the time of their hires.

Fair point but Lets look at the last 4 hires in the ACC. Teeter, Skiera, KT and Emily Boissonneault. Two had head coaching experience, two did not. You could question putting the Pitt hire in there but it is an ACC team. It is a gamble for certain. Obviously it is a gamble that the Syracuse AD and staff thought would come out on their side. Only time will tell.

[wlaxphan20]

I am sure people will say I am attacking her character; I am not. I am sure some people will say I am being misogynistic. I am not.

How does an ACC school that just played in the national championship game justify hiring a 27 year old with no head coaching experience? Would this happen in football, men’s/women’s basketball, softball/baseball, etc.?

I don’t know KT. I am sure she is great and she may do a fantastic job. But, I don’t understand how these hires are made in the first place. The bottom of the release says pending board approval. Does anyone on the board read her resume and say “how old is she? She has never been a head coach? Would we tenure a professor that just finished graduate school?”

This type of job is a dream job in other sports. A top five program nationally in a Power 5 conference. Most assistants in other sports work their whole careers to get these gigs. How did this become an acceptable thing in women’s lax, but not elsewhere?

Excellent question.

You could ask BC who hired AWW at 28 or NW who hired KAH at 26 I believe. They would certainly give you a better answer than anyone on these boards.

Oh, I am aware there have been others hired at this age. That is the entire point of my post. How does that happen in this sport and not others? And I understand AWW and KAH have had success. How has it worked out for Shannon Smith at Hofstra?

I guess I have just always viewed sports as the ultimate meritocracy. A place where you have to earn it. Climb the ladder. Particularly college athletics. Maybe I am just the old man yelling get off my lawn. But, if I am a successful head coach in my 30s/40s/50s who applied for this position and didn't get it, I would have to be slightly bitter.

It has happened plenty in other sports. During the press conference the AD at Cuse addressed the concern about Treanor's age and cited 3 non-lax coaches who go their start extremely young as a head coach: Pat Summit (23, women's basketball), Tara VanDerveer (25, women's basketball), and Mike Krzyzewski (27, men's basketball).

Additionally Anson Dorrance got the head coaching job for the MEN'S soccer team at UNC when he was 25 and 3 years later started also coaching the women's team and began to coach them exclusively starting after the 1988 season. He was the head coach of both programs for 9 years starting when he was 28 years old. Anson might be the most decorated collegiate coach ever.

Loyola-Chicago just hired a 29 year old as the new HC of their men's basketball program.

[LaxPundit07]

To be fair, you referenced five examples from over 30+ year span. 4 of them from the 80s.

There are certainly exceptions to my theory that appear in other sports. But not even remotely close to the frequency we see in our sport.

Question: How many Big Ten, ACC, and Ivy coaches are under 40 in the men's game? (Four) How about under 30? (One) How many of them had NO head coaching experience at any level when they were hired? (Five)

Now: How may Big Ten, ACC, and Ivy coaches are under 40 in the women's game? (Eight) How about under 30? (Two) How many of them had NO head coaching experience at any level when they were hired? (Fourteen)

If you look at the data relevant to these questions, I think you will understand my point a little more clearly.

Men's game 18 total programs between the ACC, Ivy, and Big Ten :
4 under 40 (22%) , 1 under 30 (5%), 5 with no head coaching experience when hired (28%)

Women's game 24 total programs between the ACC, Ivy, and Big Ten:
8 under 40 (33%), 2 under 30 (5%), 13 with no head coaching experience when hired (55%)

In conclusion, athletic directors in the most prominent conferences in women's lacrosse are hiring head coaches that are younger and less experienced. Fun fact: these are the CURRENT ages of these coaches. If you actually went back to their age when they were hired, the data is even more skewed toward the women hiring younger. And if you included programs outside of these three conferences, the data is even MORE skewed toward the women hiring younger. Skewed in a staggering fashion.

[Cletus]

To be fair, you referenced five examples from over 30+ year span. 4 of them from the 80s.

There are certainly exceptions to my theory that appear in other sports. But not even remotely close to the frequency we see in our sport.

Question: How many Big Ten, ACC, and Ivy coaches are under 40 in the men's game? (Four) How about under 30? (One) How many of them had NO head coaching experience at any level when they were hired? (Five)

Now: How may Big Ten, ACC, and Ivy coaches are under 40 in the women's game? (Eight) How about under 30? (Two) How many of them had NO head coaching experience at any level when they were hired? (Fourteen)

If you look at the data relevant to these questions, I think you will understand my point a little more clearly.

Men's game 18 total programs between the ACC, Ivy, and Big Ten :
4 under 40 (22%) , 1 under 30 (5%), 5 with no head coaching experience when hired (28%)

Women's game 24 total programs between the ACC, Ivy, and Big Ten:
8 under 40 (33%), 2 under 30 (5%), 13 with no head coaching experience when hired (55%)

In conclusion, athletic directors in the most prominent conferences in women's lacrosse are hiring head coaches that are younger and less experienced. Fun fact: these are the CURRENT ages of these coaches. If you actually went back to their age when they were hired, the data is even more skewed toward the women hiring younger. And if you included programs outside of these three conferences, the data is even MORE skewed toward the women hiring younger. Skewed in a staggering fashion.

Nice bit of research. It follows because there are many more women’s lacrosse programs which creates a higher demand for coaches.

[LaxPundit07]

Wouldn’t it also create a larger potential applicant pool? More programs means more available head coaches to poach from other programs? More experienced assistants to poach?

[Cletus]

Wouldn’t it also create a larger potential applicant pool? More programs means more available head coaches to poach from other programs? More experienced assistants to poach?

Yes to all.

[Bart]

To be fair, you referenced five examples from over 30+ year span. 4 of them from the 80s.

There are certainly exceptions to my theory that appear in other sports. But not even remotely close to the frequency we see in our sport.

Question: How many Big Ten, ACC, and Ivy coaches are under 40 in the men's game? (Four) How about under 30? (One) How many of them had NO head coaching experience at any level when they were hired? (Five)

Now: How may Big Ten, ACC, and Ivy coaches are under 40 in the women's game? (Eight) How about under 30? (Two) How many of them had NO head coaching experience at any level when they were hired? (Fourteen)

If you look at the data relevant to these questions, I think you will understand my point a little more clearly.

Men's game 18 total programs between the ACC, Ivy, and Big Ten :
4 under 40 (22%) , 1 under 30 (5%), 5 with no head coaching experience when hired (28%)

Women's game 24 total programs between the ACC, Ivy, and Big Ten:
8 under 40 (33%), 2 under 30 (5%), 13 with no head coaching experience when hired (55%)

In conclusion, athletic directors in the most prominent conferences in women's lacrosse are hiring head coaches that are younger and less experienced. Fun fact: these are the CURRENT ages of these coaches. If you actually went back to their age when they were hired, the data is even more skewed toward the women hiring younger. And if you included programs outside of these three conferences, the data is even MORE skewed toward the women hiring younger. Skewed in a staggering fashion.

I can appreciate you point but I do not know how valid comparing the Men's and Women's game is here. I do not have data to back this up, I am sure the data is out there but I am to lazy to dredge it up, but I would imagine women leave the profession at a much higher rate than men and thus skew the entire group of potential hires in the downward fashion.

This is completely anecdotal but the Radford coach just left her position because her "husband was presented with a great job opportunity..........at this time, the best decision for our family is for me to resign from my position at Radford as we relocate for my husband's job" This is not the first time I've read this and I know a coach personally with a similar situation. I have yet to read about a men's coach resigning in this manner. I am certain there are cases but I would guess that this is much more prevalent on the women's side of the house. The result would be that younger assistants and thus younger head coaches. I may be completely off base on this so if I am please feel free to jump all over this.

I also think at this point it is difficult to compare women's lacrosse with women's basketball and softball. The sheer number of players in those two sports leads to a greater pool of potential coaches. If the attrition rate is similar for coaches in all sports it makes sense that the number of asst coaches left in BB and SB would be greater thus pushing the average coaching age up.

[LaxPundit07]

To be fair, you referenced five examples from over 30+ year span. 4 of them from the 80s.

There are certainly exceptions to my theory that appear in other sports. But not even remotely close to the frequency we see in our sport.

Question: How many Big Ten, ACC, and Ivy coaches are under 40 in the men's game? (Four) How about under 30? (One) How many of them had NO head coaching experience at any level when they were hired? (Five)

Now: How may Big Ten, ACC, and Ivy coaches are under 40 in the women's game? (Eight) How about under 30? (Two) How many of them had NO head coaching experience at any level when they were hired? (Fourteen)

If you look at the data relevant to these questions, I think you will understand my point a little more clearly.

Men's game 18 total programs between the ACC, Ivy, and Big Ten :
4 under 40 (22%) , 1 under 30 (5%), 5 with no head coaching experience when hired (28%)

Women's game 24 total programs between the ACC, Ivy, and Big Ten:
8 under 40 (33%), 2 under 30 (5%), 13 with no head coaching experience when hired (55%)

In conclusion, athletic directors in the most prominent conferences in women's lacrosse are hiring head coaches that are younger and less experienced. Fun fact: these are the CURRENT ages of these coaches. If you actually went back to their age when they were hired, the data is even more skewed toward the women hiring younger. And if you included programs outside of these three conferences, the data is even MORE skewed toward the women hiring younger. Skewed in a staggering fashion.

I can appreciate you point but I do not know how valid comparing the Men's and Women's game is here. I do not have data to back this up, I am sure the data is out there but I am to lazy to dredge it up, but I would imagine women leave the profession at a much higher rate than men and thus skew the entire group of potential hires in the downward fashion.

This is completely anecdotal but the Radford coach just left her position because her "husband was presented with a great job opportunity..........at this time, the best decision for our family is for me to resign from my position at Radford as we relocate for my husband's job" This is not the first time I've read this and I know a coach personally with a similar situation. I have yet to read about a men's coach resigning in this manner. I am certain there are cases but I would guess that this is much more prevalent on the women's side of the house. The result would be that younger assistants and thus younger head coaches. I may be completely off base on this so if I am please feel free to jump all over this.

I also think at this point it is difficult to compare women's lacrosse with women's basketball and softball. The sheer number of players in those two sports leads to a greater pool of potential coaches. If the attrition rate is similar for coaches in all sports it makes sense that the number of asst coaches left in BB and SB would be greater thus pushing the average coaching age up.

Bart:

I don’t think you are completely off base on this. I respect your take. I am coming from two perspectives: the data AND having spent a number of years coaching collegiately. I watched jobs go to younger, unproven assistants over proven head coaches. Often times that younger assistant had played at a top 5 program. Often times the proven head coach was at a smaller D1 and didn’t have that name recognition. As an aside, this never happened to me. So no sour grapes here. Just offering a perspective from the trenches. I remember the reaction in the coaching world when Shannon Smith got the Hofstra job. There was also a period of time when the trendy thing was to hire younger former Northwestern players. These are obviously anecdotal; which is why I compiled the data that I did earlier.

[Bart]

To be fair, you referenced five examples from over 30+ year span. 4 of them from the 80s.

There are certainly exceptions to my theory that appear in other sports. But not even remotely close to the frequency we see in our sport.

Question: How many Big Ten, ACC, and Ivy coaches are under 40 in the men's game? (Four) How about under 30? (One) How many of them had NO head coaching experience at any level when they were hired? (Five)

Now: How may Big Ten, ACC, and Ivy coaches are under 40 in the women's game? (Eight) How about under 30? (Two) How many of them had NO head coaching experience at any level when they were hired? (Fourteen)

If you look at the data relevant to these questions, I think you will understand my point a little more clearly.

Men's game 18 total programs between the ACC, Ivy, and Big Ten :
4 under 40 (22%) , 1 under 30 (5%), 5 with no head coaching experience when hired (28%)

Women's game 24 total programs between the ACC, Ivy, and Big Ten:
8 under 40 (33%), 2 under 30 (5%), 13 with no head coaching experience when hired (55%)

In conclusion, athletic directors in the most prominent conferences in women's lacrosse are hiring head coaches that are younger and less experienced. Fun fact: these are the CURRENT ages of these coaches. If you actually went back to their age when they were hired, the data is even more skewed toward the women hiring younger. And if you included programs outside of these three conferences, the data is even MORE skewed toward the women hiring younger. Skewed in a staggering fashion.

I can appreciate you point but I do not know how valid comparing the Men's and Women's game is here. I do not have data to back this up, I am sure the data is out there but I am to lazy to dredge it up, but I would imagine women leave the profession at a much higher rate than men and thus skew the entire group of potential hires in the downward fashion.

This is completely anecdotal but the Radford coach just left her position because her "husband was presented with a great job opportunity..........at this time, the best decision for our family is for me to resign from my position at Radford as we relocate for my husband's job" This is not the first time I've read this and I know a coach personally with a similar situation. I have yet to read about a men's coach resigning in this manner. I am certain there are cases but I would guess that this is much more prevalent on the women's side of the house. The result would be that younger assistants and thus younger head coaches. I may be completely off base on this so if I am please feel free to jump all over this.

I also think at this point it is difficult to compare women's lacrosse with women's basketball and softball. The sheer number of players in those two sports leads to a greater pool of potential coaches. If the attrition rate is similar for coaches in all sports it makes sense that the number of asst coaches left in BB and SB would be greater thus pushing the average coaching age up.

Bart:

I don’t think you are completely off base on this. I respect your take. I am coming from two perspectives: the data AND having spent a number of years coaching collegiately. I watched jobs go to younger, unproven assistants over proven head coaches. Often times that younger assistant had played at a top 5 program. Often times the proven head coach was at a smaller D1 and didn’t have that name recognition. As an aside, this never happened to me. So no sour grapes here. Just offering a perspective from the trenches. I remember the reaction in the coaching world when Shannon Smith got the Hofstra job. There was also a period of time when the trendy thing was to hire younger former Northwestern players. These are obviously anecdotal; which is why I compiled the data that I did earlier.

It’s an interesting, fair question. The context of your POV is appreciated, at least by me. I never made it out of the GA ranks so my take is far from the trenches.

[8meterPA]

Fascinating coaching hire at Villanova just announced

https://villanova.com/sports/womens-lacrosse

Drexel cannot be happy, to say the least.

It will be interesting to see how many kids transfer at both schools. I'm sure NJbill would have a lot to say!

[Bart]

Fascinating coaching hire at Villanova just announced

https://villanova.com/sports/womens-lacrosse

Drexel cannot be happy, to say the least.

It will be interesting to see how many kids transfer at both schools. I'm sure NJbill would have a lot to say!

Wow. That is a very interesting hire. Good luck to her. She did some great work at Drexel.

[8meterPA]

Fascinating coaching hire at Villanova just announced

https://villanova.com/sports/womens-lacrosse

Drexel cannot be happy, to say the least.

It will be interesting to see how many kids transfer at both schools. I'm sure NJbill would have a lot to say!

Wow. That is a very interesting hire. Good luck to her. She did some great work at Drexel.

She's a Syracuse grad and was a really good player for them, I'd be curious if she threw her hat in the ring for the Syr job...never would have thought she was available after the year Drexel had. The move from Drexel to Villanova is literally 10 miles - large city school to smaller suburban school and doesn't disrupt family life at all.

[cuseman4133]

Looks like Wagner needs a new head coach. Wonder what Michelle Tumolo is doing? https://ncaamarket.ncaa.org/jobs/150350 ... osse-coach

[8meterPA]

Looks like Wagner needs a new head coach. Wonder what Michelle Tumolo is doing? https://ncaamarket.ncaa.org/jobs/150350 ... osse-coach

Now that Syracuse, VT and Villanova are filled, what is the most attractive opening? Army? Drexel? Clemson?

I've lost track somewhat of all the openings...does someone have an updated list?

[seacoaster]

Looks like Wagner needs a new head coach. Wonder what Michelle Tumolo is doing? https://ncaamarket.ncaa.org/jobs/150350 ... osse-coach

OC at Syracuse?

[Dasher]

Be all you can be

[seacoaster]

Be all you can be

Really? That would make me say "Wow" about fifty times.

[cuseman4133]

There's HC openings at

Army
Canisius
Columbia (currently have an interim)
Drexel
Howard (interim)
VCU

Fairleigh Dickinson
Xavier
Clemson

[laxlaxlax]

Looks like Wagner needs a new head coach. Wonder what Michelle Tumolo is doing? https://ncaamarket.ncaa.org/jobs/150350 ... osse-coach

My guess is Columbia. Same city so no big change to life / no move required, but a better conference.