Can the tiger change his stripes?DocBarrister wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:22 amI suspect Coach Pietramala’s Syracuse defense is going to look very different than the Hopkins defenses we have seen in recent years. Doesn’t mean he will abandon everything he has taught the last 30 years, but I am thinking that Coach Gait will try and return the Orange to its old run-and-gun ways, and that calls for a more aggressive defense focused on causing turnovers and initiating transition.JeremyCuse wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:08 amThere is some talent there but a new defensive system is needed and so is an additional infusion of talent. The Yale transfer will help along with Kennedy returning but the D needs a complete overhaul. They have some youngsters with talent but another quality transfer at Close D (probably 2 at this point) would really help. Kennedy is likely to bump back down to close and be the #1 defender but he needs help.Henpecked wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:47 amThat is going to be one hell of a staff. I am not a Syracuse fan, but it's really hard not to root for Gary Gait. I will be interested to see how Petro does up there. They need a lot of help on the defensive side of the field. Wish them all the best.JeremyCuse wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:37 amPetro will be the DC, its only a formality at this point.LaxPundit07 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:16 pm Interesting that Syracuse identified Petro in their article as potentially joining Cuse staff. Gait also said in presser that he expects announcement in the next few days on staff members.
Or am I projecting here?
Dunno ….
DocBarrister
COACHING CAROUSEL 2021
Re: COACHING CAROUSEL 2021
Everyone wants to change the world but, no one wants to do the dishes.
Re: COACHING CAROUSEL 2021
I probably should wait until Syracuse makes its announcement of its new DC. BUT it seems unlikely to me that Gary Gait would name Pietramala as his new DC. Why would he? Gait doesn't swear at Refs from the sideline. Pietramala was chastised by the Hopkins Admin to curb his behavior on the sideline. Quite a difference in public coaching behavior. Gait wears a coat & tie on the sideline. Pietramala does not. (just a difference in attitude). Can you imagine the sideline at a game with both of them there! Who is in charge? They are the same age. There are lots of younger up & coming coaches. Why would you hire a guy who is trying to redeem himself (possibly at your(Gaits) expense). None of Pietramala's assistant coaches were hired away as Head Coaches, Why? Other programs may have thought they had better choices. Etc, etc, etc.
Re: COACHING CAROUSEL 2021
Jack RunkelRiver Donkey wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:49 amWho is out at LIU?River Donkey wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:48 amWhere did Poillon from Marquette go?lilax wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:49 amHave heard that Lattimore was promoted to the full time assistant at BU.InsiderRoll wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:04 am Anyways...
It seems there are assistant positions that are open at:
Boston U.
Holy Cross
LIU
Marquette
Syracuse (2)
Wagner
I’m sure there’s a handful of others as well.
https://twitter.com/liumlax/status/1403 ... 97441?s=21
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Re: COACHING CAROUSEL 2021
Thank youAreaLax wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:32 pmJack RunkelRiver Donkey wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:49 amWho is out at LIU?River Donkey wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:48 amWhere did Poillon from Marquette go?lilax wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:49 amHave heard that Lattimore was promoted to the full time assistant at BU.InsiderRoll wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:04 am Anyways...
It seems there are assistant positions that are open at:
Boston U.
Holy Cross
LIU
Marquette
Syracuse (2)
Wagner
I’m sure there’s a handful of others as well.
https://twitter.com/liumlax/status/1403 ... 97441?s=21
Re: COACHING CAROUSEL 2021
is this a serious post or sarcasm?Chitown wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:27 pm I probably should wait until Syracuse makes its announcement of its new DC. BUT it seems unlikely to me that Gary Gait would name Pietramala as his new DC. Why would he? Gait doesn't swear at Refs from the sideline. Pietramala was chastised by the Hopkins Admin to curb his behavior on the sideline. Quite a difference in public coaching behavior. Gait wears a coat & tie on the sideline. Pietramala does not. (just a difference in attitude). Can you imagine the sideline at a game with both of them there! Who is in charge? They are the same age. There are lots of younger up & coming coaches. Why would you hire a guy who is trying to redeem himself (possibly at your(Gaits) expense). None of Pietramala's assistant coaches were hired away as Head Coaches, Why? Other programs may have thought they had better choices. Etc, etc, etc.
Re: COACHING CAROUSEL 2021
No, I said it’s possible that coaching can IMPROVE play. I didn’t say it can completely “fix” it if there is no talent. That’s the most anodyne, obvious take in sports history and yet here we are and it’s somehow controversial. Coaching can have an impact. That’s it. That’s my entire take. What happens at Cuse next year will neither prove nor disprove that.
Re: COACHING CAROUSEL 2021
And what I said was: all the top 20 D1 programs have competent coaching staffs. There's no difference between the staffs that would make a material difference on the field. And I can point to a bunch of examples to make that case, since coaches move around, allowing for comparisons.HopFan16 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:24 pm No, I said it’s possible that coaching can IMPROVE play. I didn’t say it can completely “fix” it if there is no talent. That’s the most anodyne, obvious take in sports history and yet here we are and it’s somehow controversial. Coaching can have an impact. That’s it. That’s my entire take.
We're misunderstanding each other again, I think.
Re: COACHING CAROUSEL 2021
doc says if they'd play a more aggressive defense, they'd be better.a fan wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:30 pmAnd what I said was: all the top 20 D1 programs have competent coaching staffs. There's no difference between the staffs that would make a material difference on the field. And I can point to a bunch of examples to make that case, since coaches move around, allowing for comparisons.HopFan16 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:24 pm No, I said it’s possible that coaching can IMPROVE play. I didn’t say it can completely “fix” it if there is no talent. That’s the most anodyne, obvious take in sports history and yet here we are and it’s somehow controversial. Coaching can have an impact. That’s it. That’s my entire take.
We're misunderstanding each other again, I think.
Re: COACHING CAROUSEL 2021
I'd ask: what makes you think this? He was 95-56 at the only place he was at for a long time, Brown. Had a mess of .500 seasons.CU77 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:00 pm How much is (say) Lars Tiffany worth over (say) Matt Kerwick, in goals per game? That is, if one or the other were to coach exactly the same players on the same team at the same school, what would the score differences be? (Of course this experiment cannot be done in real life.)
I would say at least +2.
What do you say?
Then he gets elite talent in Molloy, Kemp, and goalie Kelly? Boom. Final Four, although barely.
I see nothing that tells me he's any different than any other D1 coach---assuming each coach is handed the same team.
And he's a great coach. But so are all the others, imho.
Re: COACHING CAROUSEL 2021
OK, thanks. I don't agree at all. I think Tiffany got a lot more out of his players (at both Brown and UVa) then Kerwick got out of his. IMO, there is definitely such a thing as coaching talent, just like there is such a thing as player talent.
Re: COACHING CAROUSEL 2021
FWIW, I completely agree with CU77 on this. Kerwick is perhaps a more extreme example. Enough said by me.
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Re: COACHING CAROUSEL 2021
Haus vs Breschi?
Dirrgyl vs Toomey?
Sowell vs Nagle?
Brecht vs Svec?
Cassesse vs Every prior Lehigh coach?
Seremet vs Wilson?
Murphy vs MVA?
Zim vs Moran?
Munro vs Tierney?
Tillman vs Cottle (or Wojick)?
Dano vs Seth Tierney?
Dirrgyl vs Toomey?
Sowell vs Nagle?
Brecht vs Svec?
Cassesse vs Every prior Lehigh coach?
Seremet vs Wilson?
Murphy vs MVA?
Zim vs Moran?
Munro vs Tierney?
Tillman vs Cottle (or Wojick)?
Dano vs Seth Tierney?
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Re: COACHING CAROUSEL 2021
wgdsr wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:37 pmdoc says if they'd play a more aggressive defense, they'd be better.a fan wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:30 pmAnd what I said was: all the top 20 D1 programs have competent coaching staffs. There's no difference between the staffs that would make a material difference on the field. And I can point to a bunch of examples to make that case, since coaches move around, allowing for comparisons.HopFan16 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:24 pm No, I said it’s possible that coaching can IMPROVE play. I didn’t say it can completely “fix” it if there is no talent. That’s the most anodyne, obvious take in sports history and yet here we are and it’s somehow controversial. Coaching can have an impact. That’s it. That’s my entire take.
We're misunderstanding each other again, I think.
Re: COACHING CAROUSEL 2021
Again, I'm not seeing it. Tiffany was meh at Brown until elite talent arrived in Molloy and Kelly. And even then, he squeaked by unseeded Navy by a single goal in a fantastic game.
And then UVa was flat line for Tiffany's first two years after inheriting a .500 team from Starsia. 1-7 in the ACC. Where was this great coaching?
Then the recruiting kicked in.
You say Tiffany is plus two per game? UVa only beat Bryant by two in the first round this year. If you say that he's a +2, that implies you think that Bryant UVa are even talent-wise, and Tiffanys' coaching is what gave them the +2 win.
I wouldn't agree with that.
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Re: COACHING CAROUSEL 2021
This year’s tournament pretty much proved that.wgdsr wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:37 pmdoc says if they'd play a more aggressive defense, they'd be better.a fan wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:30 pmAnd what I said was: all the top 20 D1 programs have competent coaching staffs. There's no difference between the staffs that would make a material difference on the field. And I can point to a bunch of examples to make that case, since coaches move around, allowing for comparisons.HopFan16 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:24 pm No, I said it’s possible that coaching can IMPROVE play. I didn’t say it can completely “fix” it if there is no talent. That’s the most anodyne, obvious take in sports history and yet here we are and it’s somehow controversial. Coaching can have an impact. That’s it. That’s my entire take.
We're misunderstanding each other again, I think.
DocBarrister
@DocBarrister
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Re: COACHING CAROUSEL 2021
You are just so wrong, a fan.a fan wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:50 pmAgain, I'm not seeing it. Tiffany was meh at Brown until elite talent arrived in Molloy and Kelly. And even then, he squeaked by unseeded Navy by a single goal in a fantastic game.
And then UVa was flat line for Tiffany's first two years after inheriting a .500 team from Starsia. 1-7 in the ACC. Where was this great coaching?
Then the recruiting kicked in.
You say Tiffany is plus two per game? UVa only beat Bryant by two in the first round this year. If you say that he's a +2, that implies you think that Bryant UVa are even talent-wise, and Tiffanys' coaching is what gave them the +2 win.
I wouldn't agree with that.
The analogy with players is a good one.
Yes, there are many, many good lacrosse players.
There aren’t many great ones.
The same is true with coaches.
DocBarrister
@DocBarrister
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Re: COACHING CAROUSEL 2021
a fana fan wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:50 pmAgain, I'm not seeing it. Tiffany was meh at Brown until elite talent arrived in Molloy and Kelly. And even then, he squeaked by unseeded Navy by a single goal in a fantastic game.
And then UVa was flat line for Tiffany's first two years after inheriting a .500 team from Starsia. 1-7 in the ACC. Where was this great coaching?
Then the recruiting kicked in.
You say Tiffany is plus two per game? UVa only beat Bryant by two in the first round this year. If you say that he's a +2, that implies you think that Bryant UVa are even talent-wise, and Tiffanys' coaching is what gave them the +2 win.
I wouldn't agree with that.
I'm not sure that your totally wrong with Tiffany, what I will say is it may not have been the addition of Molloy and Kelly on the field but the huge addition he made off the field. That same person came to Charlottesville with him.
Re: COACHING CAROUSEL 2021
“The recruiting kicked in”a fan wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:50 pmAgain, I'm not seeing it. Tiffany was meh at Brown until elite talent arrived in Molloy and Kelly. And even then, he squeaked by unseeded Navy by a single goal in a fantastic game.
And then UVa was flat line for Tiffany's first two years after inheriting a .500 team from Starsia. 1-7 in the ACC. Where was this great coaching?
Then the recruiting kicked in.
You say Tiffany is plus two per game? UVa only beat Bryant by two in the first round this year. If you say that he's a +2, that implies you think that Bryant UVa are even talent-wise, and Tiffanys' coaching is what gave them the +2 win.
I wouldn't agree with that.
All of Lars best players aside from Shellenberger are Starsia recruits
Moore has been there since 2018, Lars’ 2nd year. Laviano has been there since 2018. Dox has been there since 2017, his first year. Jared Conners has been there since 2018, his first year. Ryan Conrad was there his first two years. Rode since 2018. Even Cormier is a Starsia recruit. All these dudes Lars inherited and have been there since he first got there. How exactly did the recruiting “kick in”
It’s hilarious how literally everyone can agree that coaching matters in every sport and has a tangible outcome on games through development and strategy and then you apparently have discovered that literally all of these games are just automatons who can be subbed in and out and literally do not make any impact whatsoever
Re: COACHING CAROUSEL 2021
Except that guy doesn’t make any impact because there’s no such thing as coaching. You just get the players and then roll the ball out there and whoever has the better players wins. And the players are good wholly independent of the coaches and the coaches don’t develop the players at all. They’re all finished products when they arrive and whoever is best wins!shaadb-man wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:19 ama fana fan wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:50 pmAgain, I'm not seeing it. Tiffany was meh at Brown until elite talent arrived in Molloy and Kelly. And even then, he squeaked by unseeded Navy by a single goal in a fantastic game.
And then UVa was flat line for Tiffany's first two years after inheriting a .500 team from Starsia. 1-7 in the ACC. Where was this great coaching?
Then the recruiting kicked in.
You say Tiffany is plus two per game? UVa only beat Bryant by two in the first round this year. If you say that he's a +2, that implies you think that Bryant UVa are even talent-wise, and Tiffanys' coaching is what gave them the +2 win.
I wouldn't agree with that.
I'm not sure that your totally wrong with Tiffany, what I will say is it may not have been the addition of Molloy and Kelly on the field but the huge addition he made off the field. That same person came to Charlottesville with him.
Re: COACHING CAROUSEL 2021
No, what's hilarious is that you guys keep building a strawman, and aren't paying attention to what I'm saying.jrn19 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:39 am It’s hilarious how literally everyone can agree that coaching matters in every sport and has a tangible outcome on games through development and strategy and then you apparently have discovered that literally all of these games are just automatons who can be subbed in and out and literally do not make any impact whatsoever
I'm not saying these coaches don't affect their teams. Of course they do. You're acting like I'm saying the option is: Lars Tiffany and Co. on the sidelines, or: no one on the sidelines at all.
That's not what I'm saying, and you know it.
I'm saying: look at the top 20 for D1. Tell me which coaches are great, and which aren't.
I'm saying, if you have, say, the 2021 UVa roster? The odds are that Brecht, Desko, Tierney, Nadelen, Conry, Danowski, Milliman, etc. will all get them to the Final Four.
That's it. That's my point. So yep, I agree 1000% that Tiffany is a fine coach. But here's the thing you're missing: so are Brecht, Desko, Tierney, Nadelen, Conry, Danowski, Milliman, etc.
Heck, Tierney and Desko are already in the HoF. Twelve championships as Head Coaches between them. Both bounced in the 1st round. Why?
You all know why...but are playing dumb. The one thing I know is that it sure as *hit wasn't because they can't coach lacrosse.