Johns Hopkins 2022

[OCanada]

MDlax. You are omitting the institution in your calculation when it comes to recruitment etc

[MDlaxfan76]

MDlax. You are omitting the institution in your calculation when it comes to recruitment etc

Didn't intend to do so...are you saying that recruiting big, aggressive, fast defensemen is easier at Syracuse than Hopkins? Probably true regardless of position, but I'm not so sure there's something uniquely true about defenders with those qualities.

Or do I misunderstand?

I think Petro could have recruited the horses to come to Hopkins that are necessary, but ER made that really, really difficult.

[HopFan16]

You're attributing Hop defensemen timing their slides and recoveries much better this year than last to a few games at the end of the year in which they deployed an all-freshman second midfield?

Yes. Partially.

How many games did Hop look okay by halftime----only for the bottom to fall out when your crew got tired, and started making mistakes?

Examples? Tied at half against first game against Maryland. Ahead at the half first game against Rutgers. All ended in blowouts. I'm not crazy to suggest that they starters got shagged, and started making mistakes.

Then near the end of the season, Milliman starts playing an entire middie line that can actually score? No more 4th quarter blowouts....fewer D mistakes. It's not unreasonable to point at this truly unusual adjustment of starting an entire line of freshman so late in the year....and suggest that this had effects all over the field.

Let's say everything here is true (I don't think it is, but for the sake of argument, we'll go with it). The decision to create this midfield late in the season was still a *coaching* decision. Personnel management is part of the X's and O's. You're saying the defense played better because of an unusual adjustment the coaches made.

For the record, I don't think Petro has "forgotten" to coach defense, nor do I think he can't be successful somewhere again. I hope he is, though not at Syracuse. Our troubles on defense the past several years aren't entirely his fault. But, I will absolutely say this because I believe it—I think at this stage in their respective careers, based on what I've heard from those in the program but also on what I've seen with my own two eyes, that Jamo is a more effective teacher, developer, and communicator of defensive scheme and philosophy and culture than Petro. His work at UMBC with very minimal talent (compared to top 10 type teams) kinda speaks for itself. He probably owes a lot of that to the big guy. But would not be the first time the pupil went on to outperform the master.

[a fan]

Let's say everything here is true (I don't think it is....

Putting 3 freshman middies on the field ---that outscore your 1st line middies---in the Big Ten tourney isn't going to have an effect on the team's performance as a whole? Defense. Offense. Transition. Riding.

Yeah...agree to disagree here.

The decision to create this midfield late in the season was still a *coaching* decision.

So I argue that better players showed up at Homewood in 2021, and that's what helped the late season improvement....

And instead of conceding this simple point, you want to tell me that the improvement wasn't because of this new crop of talent----it was the coaches' decision to put in said talent that won the day? Not the freshman players themselves?

I think we're talking past each other again. It happens. Maybe pints and drams in Baltimore next year, or something?

[HopFan16]

Let's say everything here is true (I don't think it is....

Putting 3 freshman middies on the field ---that outscore your 1st line middies---in the Big Ten tourney isn't going to have an effect on the team's performance as a whole? Defense. Offense. Transition. Riding.

Yeah...agree to disagree here.

The decision to create this midfield late in the season was still a *coaching* decision.

So I argue that better players showed up at Homewood in 2021, and that's what helped the late season improvement....

And instead of conceding this simple point, you want to tell me that the improvement wasn't because of this new crop of talent----it was the coaches' decision to put in said talent that won the day? Not the freshman players themselves?

I think we're talking past each other again. It happens. Maybe pints and drams in Baltimore next year, or something?

You literally called it an unusual adjustment. Your words. Unusual suggests other coaches would not have made that same adjustment—otherwise it’d be usual, and expected.

We’ve been having versions of this same discussion for awhile now. I acknowledge talent plays a large role. Your position, every time this comes up, has been that coaching plays zero role. Zero. Taking this to its logical conclusion, you would appear to believe that coaches do not have an impact on the sport of lacrosse after the recruiting process. Once the players arrive on campus, they are put in a simulation, based on their talent level, and no other factors are capable of affecting results of games.

[jhu06]

IL postseason rant podcast is up
-another very strong whack from Foy and Quint at Hopkins diminished value of lacrosse from an administration and student body perspective.
-another passionate whack from Quint at the move to the big ten "it's not a level playing field with their rivals getting $50 million from the conference and having weaker academics". would a schedule with uva, navy, duke, army be better than psu, osu, michigan, rutgers next spring but no aq?

2 issues that indirectly relate to us
-a strong whack at bloated 60 man rosters and whether 45-60 on the roster get consistent reps.
-And finally it's hard to believe that anything doesn't get mentioned here but in discussing the downfall of desko number 2 is what they perceive as a weakening of syracuses local hs talent base it traditionally draws from. Of all the reasons cited for JHU's issues one that never made the list was maryland not producing the caliber of hs talent that it used to versus the rest of the country.

[CU77]

Of all the reasons cited for JHU's issues one that never made the list was maryland not producing the caliber of hs talent that it used to versus the rest of the country.

Maybe because then you have to explain why it didn't seem to hurt other area schools like Maryland and Loyola.

[HopFan16]

-another passionate whack from Quint at the move to the big ten "it's not a level playing field with their rivals getting $50 million from the conference and having weaker academics"

Hopkins has been in 4/6 Big Ten title games and won two of them. The two title losses have been by a combined 3 goals. We're a bounce here and there from winning two thirds of the conference's championships. OSU can have their big empty football stadium.

[jhu06]

-another passionate whack from Quint at the move to the big ten "it's not a level playing field with their rivals getting $50 million from the conference and having weaker academics"

Hopkins has been in 4/6 Big Ten title games and won two of them. The two title losses have been by a combined 3 goals. We're a bounce here and there from winning two thirds of the conference's championships. OSU can have their big empty football stadium.

his argument in other forums has been that the rest of the conference, particularly maryland and rutgers got massive financial windfalls from their additions all we got is a shot at an aq which frankly a Hopkins program should never need.

[a fan]

You literally called it an unusual adjustment. Your words. Unusual suggests other coaches would not have made that same adjustment—otherwise it’d be usual, and expected.

Unusual in the sense of: are the soph., junior, and senior middie so lacking in talent that Miilman could drop three freshman in, and they start scoring immediately?

The answer is plainly yes. Zinn, for example, didn't have a single goal down this same run.

Again: I thought for SURE that you cats would see the freshmen middies outscoring the other three classes' worth of middies and conclude---"boy, the cupboard really HAS been bare."

Nope. Instead, some double down and tell me about better coaching. For the life of me, I don't get why some of you guys won't admit that there was an obvious talent gap that that all the coaching in the world wouldn't fix.

We just disagree. I'm happy to let it go at that.

We’ve been having versions of this same discussion for awhile now. I acknowledge talent plays a large role. Your position, every time this comes up, has been that coaching plays zero role. Zero. Taking this to its logical conclusion, you would appear to believe that coaches do not have an impact on the sport of lacrosse after the recruiting process. Once the players arrive on campus, they are put in a simulation, based on their talent level, and no other factors are capable of affecting results of games.

I have to keep reminding you that I'm talking about program success over the long term. So 4-10 years. So yep, a good time out, or a wise 2nd half adjustment can pick up a goal, or even a win. And luck plays a role. But over time......talent trumps everything else for long term program success.

More specifically, what I believe is that the on-the-field abilities of the top 20 coaching staffs are the same, and given that, recruiting far outweighs their contributions. And if you give Tierney, Desko, Toomey, Nadelen, et al the 2021 rosters for UNC, Duke, UMd and UVa----they're going to make Final Fours routinely. Adjustments will pick up a goal or two. Or lose one. And yep, upsets happen. But over the long haul? Talent wins.

I don't look at kids like Peshko or Schellenberger and think "wow....what coaching!!!".

And I certainly don't look at coaches like Nadelen and think "boy, he's gotten worse at coaching", simply because he was 0-6, and 6-8 the last two years. I think a far more obvious explanation is that he's simply not getting top talent. Same goes for Pressler and his horrible NCAA record since he left Duke.


It's a simple game. That's what I think. You disagree.....I get it. That's cool. It's why we have forums, no?

[HopFan16]

More specifically, what I believe is that the on-the-field abilities of the top 20 coaching staffs are the same

Man oh man do I not agree with this.

Pretty clear neither of us are changing perspectives on this. Happy to move on.

Swinging it back to Hop 2022—I am hearing that Logan Callahan has won somewhere in the vicinity of 90% of his faceoffs for 12-1 Victor under the new rules this year. I haven't been keeping tabs on the other '21 recruits still playing, but looking at the '22s, Koleton Marquis broke the Don Bosco record for points in a season with 83 and is playing in the NJ state semi-final for the undefeated Ironmen tonight.

[a fan]

More specifically, what I believe is that the on-the-field abilities of the top 20 coaching staffs are the same

Man oh man do I not agree with this.

Pretty clear neither of us are changing perspectives on this. Happy to move on.

Yep. We're good.

Appreciate the conversation....

[DocBarrister]

More specifically, what I believe is that the on-the-field abilities of the top 20 coaching staffs are the same

Man oh man do I not agree with this.

Pretty clear neither of us are changing perspectives on this. Happy to move on.

Swinging it back to Hop 2022—I am hearing that Logan Callahan has won somewhere in the vicinity of 90% of his faceoffs for 12-1 Victor under the new rules this year. I haven't been keeping tabs on the other '21 recruits still playing, but looking at the '22s, Koleton Marquis broke the Don Bosco record for points in a season with 83 and is playing in the NJ state semi-final for the undefeated Ironmen tonight.

Well, a fan … I doubt there is a Division I coach or athletic director who would agree with you.

DocBarrister

[D2fan]

Swinging it back to Hop 2022—I am hearing that Logan Callahan has won somewhere in the vicinity of 90% of his faceoffs for 12-1 Victor under the new rules this year. I haven't been keeping tabs on the other '21 recruits still playing, but looking at the '22s, Koleton Marquis broke the Don Bosco record for points in a season with 83 and is playing in the NJ state semi-final for the undefeated Ironmen tonight.

You can see Callahans stats here. Rochester does an amazing job with their stats. Logan has been impressive.

http://blaxfive.net/19_players/players. ... yerid=7720

[DocBarrister]

Swinging it back to Hop 2022—I am hearing that Logan Callahan has won somewhere in the vicinity of 90% of his faceoffs for 12-1 Victor under the new rules this year. I haven't been keeping tabs on the other '21 recruits still playing, but looking at the '22s, Koleton Marquis broke the Don Bosco record for points in a season with 83 and is playing in the NJ state semi-final for the undefeated Ironmen tonight.

You can see Callahans stats here. Rochester does an amazing job with their stats. Logan has been impressive.

http://blaxfive.net/19_players/players. ... yerid=7720

Let me get this straight … 159 GBs in 12 games (over 13 a game) and an 86% FO win percentage?



And Callahan is arriving on campus this Fall?

I think Narewski/Dunn/Callahan have the potential to be a terrific FO crew, especially with Koesterer coaching them.

DocBarrister

[a fan]

More specifically, what I believe is that the on-the-field abilities of the top 20 coaching staffs are the same

Well, a fan … I doubt there is a Division I coach or athletic director who would agree with you.
DocBarrister

Again: look at the bolded. On the field coaching. Not recruiting, or anything else that takes place off the field.

Here's a list of the top 20 teams, according to IL.

1 Virginia (14 - 4) 320 (16) 5
2 Maryland (15 - 1) 304 2
3 North Carolina (13 - 3) 288 1
4 Notre Dame (8 - 4) 264 4
5 Duke (14 - 3) 258 3
6 Rutgers (9 - 4) 239 9
7 Georgetown (13 - 3) 222 6
8 Loyola (10 - 6) 216 12
9 Denver (12 - 5) 172 7
10 Lehigh (10 - 2) 157 8
11 Syracuse (7 - 6) 154 10
12 Drexel (10 - 3) 153 11
13 Army (7 - 4) 110 13
14 Bryant (9 - 4) 99 19
15 Vermont (9 - 5) 93 15
16 High Point (8 - 6) 82 16
17 Villanova (7 - 5) 64 14
18 Navy (6 - 3) 42 17
19 Delaware (10 - 3) 28 18
20 Johns Hopkins (4 - 9)


So go ahead and tell me. Which program can't coach D1 ball ON THE FIELD?

And btw, in case it's not obvious-----if you think any of the coaching staffs on this list are subpar....what does it say about the staffs at all the programs like OState, UMich, etc. that couldn't even manage to make it in the top 20? (Ivy's excluded this year, obviously)

[flalax22]

Roster purge / exodus continues with Cohen and Schrieber now in the portal.

[Hopfan]

Callahan has a pretty good off-season FO coach: TD Ierlan, also a Victor grad.
Could be Narewski’s successor as Dunn’s 36% (even with his 2 gs) doesn’t look like the answer, only slightly higher than Prouty’s 29%.

[jhu06]

Roster purge / exodus continues with Cohen and Schrieber now in the portal.

Not sure why cohen was ever on the roster aside from culver maybe tinney put in a word with Petro. Schreiber's bio says his dad played at Hopkins. Wonder with petro gone how many of those situations we'll see going forward.

[HopFan16]

Callahan has a pretty good off-season FO coach: TD Ierlan, also a Victor grad.
Could be Narewski’s successor as Dunn’s 36% (even with his 2 gs) doesn’t look like the answer, only slightly higher than Prouty’s 29%.

I don’t think Dunn’s 36% necessarily tells the whole story. He turned a lot of faceoffs into 50/50s but didn’t get much help from the wings especially in the second half of the season after Mabbett went down. He also won way more than 36% of clamps. I think it’s reasonable to expect a bit of a jump in % for him next season.

Callahan could help next year, and it’s hard to argue with 86% as a senior for Victor but I wonder how good the competition up there really is. I don’t know enough about it personally but people in the area have been saying central and western NY high school lacrosse isn’t what it used to be.

Schreiber left the roster months ago so his portal entry does not impact the total roster number we’ve been using. Cohen, however, does.