Israel and West Bank Settlements

[Matnum PI]

I can see it as offensive (which Einstein could be a times) and hurtful. Beyond that I don't know what to say

There's hurtful and then there's comparing actual victims of the holocaust to the Nazis. Einstein being a pacifist would not blind him to the ridiculousness and inappropriateness of comparing Israel to Nazi German. Nazi German industrialized murder. On their worst day, this is not what Israel was doing. And to compare the actual victims of the Nazis to the Nazis?! It's a lot...

[jhu72]

I can see it as offensive (which Einstein could be a times) and hurtful. Beyond that I don't know what to say

There's hurtful and then there's comparing actual victims of the holocaust to the Nazis. Einstein being a pacifist would not blind him to the ridiculousness and inappropriateness of comparing Israel to Nazi German. Nazi German industrialized murder. On their worst day, this is not what Israel was doing. And to compare the actual victims of the Nazis to the Nazis?! It's a lot...

I agree Einstein would likely not make that comparison, he was not prone to hyperbole.

[MDlaxfan76]

And the quote we're discussing is nowhere to be found in the letter to the editor you posted below it. Made up, anti-Israel propaganda. Via Honest Reporting Canada: "There’s no evidence to confirm the veracity that Einstein ever made this statement that was wrongly attributed to him. As we told the Journal Pioneer, unless Mr. Deaton can substantiate with verifiable evidence/sourcing that Einstein made this statement, a retraction should be published. Additionally, Mr. Deaton’s bringing up this alleged quote is tantamount to antisemitism as according to the Ottawa Protocol and U.S. State Department, when you draw comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis, you are making an antisemitic statement."

It's a fake, Brooklyn. and horribly inappropriate. (I'm being kind with my language.)

This sort of thing is quite insidious, and is has been practiced by anti-semites for centuries. Making it up from whole cloth, wrapping it in supposedly biblical justifications, and/or claiming the imprimatur of someone otherwise respected and presumed to be fair...but worse than BS.

Of course, none of that means that the actions of a specific government in Israel are always justified or wise. In some cases, they can be quite horrible on their own terms.

This likening of Israeli actions to the Nazis is a particularly gross mischaracterization of reality. But it's really not surprising that so many would 'go there'...that's the exact intent, to insult and upset in the starkest sort of way.

[Matnum PI]

This likening of Israeli actions to the Nazis is a particularly gross mischaracterization of reality. But it's really not surprising that so many would 'go there'...that's the exact intent, to insult and upset in the starkest sort of way.

It's a good example of how i feel about bigotry. That a bigot says something bigoted has little to no effect on me. What do you expect from a bigot? What runs up my spine are the multitudes of, lack of a better word, less-bigoted people who hear the bigoted statement and nod their heads while saying, Hmmm. That they have little to no idea how bigoted, how horribly insensitive a given statement, that's where i lose faith in humanity.

[MDlaxfan76]

This likening of Israeli actions to the Nazis is a particularly gross mischaracterization of reality. But it's really not surprising that so many would 'go there'...that's the exact intent, to insult and upset in the starkest sort of way.

It's a good example of how i feel about bigotry. That a bigot says something bigoted has little to no effect on me. What do you expect from a bigot? What runs up my spine are the multitudes of, lack of a better word, less-bigoted people who hear the bigoted statement and nod their heads while saying, Hmmm. That they have little to no idea how bigoted, how horribly insensitive a given statement, that's where i lose faith in humanity.

Well...do have a "faith"...maybe that's the whole point, the struggle to listen to our better angels, "tryin real hard to be the shepherd".


I can never figure out how to post youtube...

[Peter Brown]

Ummmm, don’t many liberals regularly call Republicans ‘Nazis’ with no associated liberal sturm und drang’?! In fact they are the ones saying it.

Interesting.

[Matnum PI]

I can never figure out how to post youtube...

Same as you did but you remove the https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=.

[Matnum PI]

Ummmm, don’t many liberals regularly call Republicans ‘Nazis’ with no associated liberal sturm und drang’?!

Liberals and... Most everyone. We have grammar Nazis, soup Nazis, Whatever Nazis. it's as if there are people who want to drain the word of any real meaning.

This is a semi-rhetorical question but, Peter, does everything, literally most everything you post need to be Liberals=Bad?

[Matnum PI]

Well...do have a "faith"...maybe that's the whole point, the struggle to listen to our better angels, "tryin real hard to be the shepherd".

I very much believe this. Living amongst so many wolves, it's tempting to show one's teeth or, worse, to become a wolf as well. And that's the test. In our literature, in our art, in our biographies, etc., we see this reoccurring theme over and over again. Watching good things happen to bad people, bad things happen to good people, and still strive to be good.

[Typical Lax Dad]

This likening of Israeli actions to the Nazis is a particularly gross mischaracterization of reality. But it's really not surprising that so many would 'go there'...that's the exact intent, to insult and upset in the starkest sort of way.

It's a good example of how i feel about bigotry. That a bigot says something bigoted has little to no effect on me. What do you expect from a bigot? What runs up my spine are the multitudes of, lack of a better word, less-bigoted people who hear the bigoted statement and nod their heads while saying, Hmmm. That they have little to no idea how bigoted, how horribly insensitive a given statement, that's where i lose faith in humanity.

Well...do have a "faith"...maybe that's the whole point, the struggle to listen to our better angels, "tryin real hard to be the shepherd".


I can never figure out how to post youtube...

After not seeing this film in years, I recently saw it again. I really liked this scene.

[PizzaSnake]

[old salt]

Logically, what is the more likely impetus to the reported increase in antisemitic attacks in the US ?

(a) Marjorie Taylor Greene's remarks comparing Pelosi's mask mandate to the Holocaust.

(b) Israel's bombing of Gaza.

If you get your news from MSNBC, it's due solely to (a) & unrelated to (b).

Greene's idiotic remarks are terribly insensitive. They trivialize the vilest event in human history. How do they incite antisemitic violence ?

... bullsh*t.

Agreed, he obviously doesn't watch MSNBC...it's quite clear there and on CNN that the conflict has prompted this surge, at this moment. There's no avoidance of the connection...the difference is that it's simply an excuse for anti-semitic hate to come out from under its rock.

And it's also clear that the rhetoric of politicians emboldens the haters.

So, here in this post above, we have yet one more example of blaming Jews for anti-semitic hate. Not the haters. Not those who encourage them. Old story.

Watch yesterday's Nicole Wallace show, the segment with Donnie Deutsch (@ 24:30). They blend outraged discussion of Greene with a rise in antisemitism, with no mention of the Gaza attacks.

How is this blaming Jews ? It's pointing out political hacks mixing the two & exploiting both. By exploiting the issue, they trivialize the Holocaust as much as Greene does.

[Brooklyn]

This likening of Israeli actions to the Nazis is a particularly gross mischaracterization of reality. But it's really not surprising that so many would 'go there'...that's the exact intent, to insult and upset in the starkest sort of way.

Einstein and his fellow Jews who signed that letter in 1948 will readily disagree. In fact nobody does that more often than do progressive Jews and True Torah Jews. Next time they hold anti-Zionist rallies step up to them and tell them to their faces that you harbor such thoughts. I'm sure many would appreciate you sharing your views.

There's another irony in that right wingers often equate liberals with Nazis because of their recognition of reproductive rights because the delusional right feels abortion constitutes genocide. Right wingers say that about American liberals but won't say the same things about the Israeli government which provides abortion for free to its citizens while American taxpayers finance their health care.

So let's hear it right wingers:
* You say Biden is a socialist and you hate him for it.
* You say abortion is genocide.
* Ironically, Israel is socialist.
* It has socialized health care that YOU pay for.
* It practices virtually unrestricted abortion rights.
* That while you hate Biden, you love socialist, abortionist, "genocidal" Israel [here, I'm using your terms].



You keep avoiding the matter of Israel being of socialist origin and practice. You say abortion is genocidal, you say health care is socialist. You hate it all here but love it all there. No surprise given your long history of double standards and political Pharisaism.

Your eagerness to condemn one while applauding the other clearly proves you have no principles or moral integrity to boast of.

[Brooklyn]

Ummmm, don’t many liberals regularly call Republicans ‘Nazis’ with no associated liberal sturm und drang’?! In fact they are the ones saying it.

Interesting.

Actually it's the opposite with many right wing delusionals calling patriots Nazis. Of course, we all know this is nothing more than self projections.

[MDlaxfan76]

Logically, what is the more likely impetus to the reported increase in antisemitic attacks in the US ?

(a) Marjorie Taylor Greene's remarks comparing Pelosi's mask mandate to the Holocaust.

(b) Israel's bombing of Gaza.

If you get your news from MSNBC, it's due solely to (a) & unrelated to (b).

Greene's idiotic remarks are terribly insensitive. They trivialize the vilest event in human history. How do they incite antisemitic violence ?

... bullsh*t.

Agreed, he obviously doesn't watch MSNBC...it's quite clear there and on CNN that the conflict has prompted this surge, at this moment. There's no avoidance of the connection...the difference is that it's simply an excuse for anti-semitic hate to come out from under its rock.

And it's also clear that the rhetoric of politicians emboldens the haters.

So, here in this post above, we have yet one more example of blaming Jews for anti-semitic hate. Not the haters. Not those who encourage them. Old story.

Watch yesterday's Nicole Wallace show, the segment with Donnie Deutsch (@ 24:30). They blend outraged discussion of Greene with a rise in antisemitism, with no mention of the Gaza attacks.

How is this blaming Jews ? It's pointing out political hacks mixing the two & exploiting both. By exploiting the issue, they trivialize the Holocaust as much as Greene does.

yup, you want to blame Israel for the anti-semitism in the US...and not people like Greene. So, if they spotlight Greene and her repulsive behavior without also talking, in the same segment, about Israel and Gaza in a segment about Greene not Israel, that means that MSNBC isn't covering Israel and Gaza...

Yup, let's blame anti-semitic hate crimes on Jews...

[MDlaxfan76]

This likening of Israeli actions to the Nazis is a particularly gross mischaracterization of reality. But it's really not surprising that so many would 'go there'...that's the exact intent, to insult and upset in the starkest sort of way.

Einstein and his fellow Jews who signed that letter in 1948 will readily disagree. In fact nobody does that more often than do progressive Jews and True Torah Jews. Next time they hold anti-Zionist rallies step up to them and tell them to their faces that you harbor such thoughts. I'm sure many would appreciate you sharing your views.

There's another irony in that right wingers often equate liberals with Nazis because of their recognition of reproductive rights because the delusional right feels abortion constitutes genocide. Right wingers say that about American liberals but won't say the same things about the Israeli government which provides abortion for free to its citizens while American taxpayers finance their health care.

So let's hear it right wingers:
* You say Biden is a socialist and you hate him for it.
* You say abortion is genocide.
* Ironically, Israel is socialist.
* It has socialized health care that YOU pay for.
* It practices virtually unrestricted abortion rights.
* That while you hate Biden, you love socialist, abortionist, "genocidal" Israel [here, I'm using your terms].



You keep avoiding the matter of Israel being of socialist origin and practice. You say abortion is genocidal, you say health care is socialist. You hate it all here but love it all there. No surprise given your long history of double standards and political Pharisaism.

Your eagerness to condemn one while applauding the other clearly proves you have no principles or moral integrity to boast of.

Just to be clear Brooklyn, since you quoted me, do you think I'm a "right winger"??

[Brooklyn]

Let's just set aside the matter of labels and do me a favor by addressing what I wrote. Let's have all those people who uphold Israel but who condemn any and every aspect of American political dissent from the delusionalism of Republicanism explain their hypocrisy and double standards.

[old salt]

Logically, what is the more likely impetus to the reported increase in antisemitic attacks in the US ?

(a) Marjorie Taylor Greene's remarks comparing Pelosi's mask mandate to the Holocaust.

(b) Israel's bombing of Gaza.

If you get your news from MSNBC, it's due solely to (a) & unrelated to (b).

Greene's idiotic remarks are terribly insensitive. They trivialize the vilest event in human history. How do they incite antisemitic violence ?

... bullsh*t.

Agreed, he obviously doesn't watch MSNBC...it's quite clear there and on CNN that the conflict has prompted this surge, at this moment. There's no avoidance of the connection...the difference is that it's simply an excuse for anti-semitic hate to come out from under its rock.

And it's also clear that the rhetoric of politicians emboldens the haters.

So, here in this post above, we have yet one more example of blaming Jews for anti-semitic hate. Not the haters. Not those who encourage them. Old story.

Watch yesterday's Nicole Wallace show, the segment with Donnie Deutsch (@ 24:30). They blend outraged discussion of Greene with a rise in antisemitism, with no mention of the Gaza attacks.

How is this blaming Jews ? It's pointing out political hacks mixing the two & exploiting both. By exploiting the issue, they trivialize the Holocaust as much as Greene does.

yup, you want to blame Israel for the anti-semitism in the US...and not people like Greene. So, if they spotlight Greene and her repulsive behavior without also talking, in the same segment, about Israel and Gaza in a segment about Greene not Israel, that means that MSNBC isn't covering Israel and Gaza...

Yup, let's blame anti-semitic hate crimes on Jews...

...that's nuts ! I'm blaming anti-semitism on the anti-semites. Israel has the right of selfdefense.

That may be your most disingenuous, blame shifting, accusatory deflection yet.

In their entire rant, Wallace & Deutsch get all worked up about Greene & link her to anti-semitic incidents in the US, without one word about the fighting in Gaza.

Wallace references her interview last Fri with Jonathan Greenblatt of the ADL. They did a lengthy segment on the rise of anti-semitism, referencing the fighting in Gaza, with no reference to Greene. See for yourself.* Apparently the root cause changed over the weekend.

* https://www.mediaite.com/tv/its-like-a- ... c-attacks/

[MDlaxfan76]

Logically, what is the more likely impetus to the reported increase in antisemitic attacks in the US ?

(a) Marjorie Taylor Greene's remarks comparing Pelosi's mask mandate to the Holocaust.

(b) Israel's bombing of Gaza.

If you get your news from MSNBC, it's due solely to (a) & unrelated to (b).

Greene's idiotic remarks are terribly insensitive. They trivialize the vilest event in human history. How do they incite antisemitic violence ?

... bullsh*t.

Agreed, he obviously doesn't watch MSNBC...it's quite clear there and on CNN that the conflict has prompted this surge, at this moment. There's no avoidance of the connection...the difference is that it's simply an excuse for anti-semitic hate to come out from under its rock.

And it's also clear that the rhetoric of politicians emboldens the haters.

So, here in this post above, we have yet one more example of blaming Jews for anti-semitic hate. Not the haters. Not those who encourage them. Old story.

Watch yesterday's Nicole Wallace show, the segment with Donnie Deutsch (@ 24:30). They blend outraged discussion of Greene with a rise in antisemitism, with no mention of the Gaza attacks.

How is this blaming Jews ? It's pointing out political hacks mixing the two & exploiting both. By exploiting the issue, they trivialize the Holocaust as much as Greene does.

yup, you want to blame Israel for the anti-semitism in the US...and not people like Greene. So, if they spotlight Greene and her repulsive behavior without also talking, in the same segment, about Israel and Gaza in a segment about Greene not Israel, that means that MSNBC isn't covering Israel and Gaza...

Yup, let's blame anti-semitic hate crimes on Jews...

...that's nuts ! I'm blaming anti-semitism on the anti-semites. Israel has the right of selfdefense.

That may be your most disingenuous, blame shifting, accusatory deflection yet.

In their entire rant, Wallace & Deutsch get all worked up about Greene & link her to anti-semitic incidents in the US, without one word about the fighting in Gaza.

Wallace references her interview last Fri with Jonathan Greenblatt of the ADL. They did a lengthy segment on the rise of anti-semitism, referencing the fighting in Gaza, with no reference to Greene. See for yourself.* Apparently the root cause changed over the weekend.

* https://www.mediaite.com/tv/its-like-a- ... c-attacks/

No, it did not change.

You made a comment about how if you watched MSNBC, you'd think it was entirely unrelated to what's happening in Israel/Gaza...I simply said that IF you watch MSNBC (and CNN as well), you'll hear lots of references to what's happening there and its connection to anti-semitic violence here. You just pointed out a long exposition on MSNBC confirming that.

Your initial post was untrue and hyperbolic.

However, when someone who represents a large following on social media, someone actually elected to a position of influence, says something bigoted and hateful, that does contribute to antisemitic violence as well. Of course it does.

As I said above, "the rhetoric of politicians emboldens the haters."

But your logic is that it must solely be because of what Israel is doing in Gaza...yup, blame the Jews.
Absolutely no contribution from right wing politicians whipping up hate.

Maybe you're just falling into the old trap unwittingly, but in your eagerness to attack media talking heads that's what you did.

[MDlaxfan76]

Let's just set aside the matter of labels and do me a favor by addressing what I wrote. Let's have all those people who uphold Israel but who condemn any and every aspect of American political dissent from the delusionalism of Republicanism explain their hypocrisy and double standards.

I have no issue with your challenging those you describe.

However, I was puzzled as to whether you were applying that "label", or that description above, to me.

Doesn't fit, right?

So, it wouldn't be for me to address your ripping of "right wingers" and their "hypocrisy"...that's on them.

If you're really asking me to address it, though, I'd say that I don't 'hate socialism' (I do abhor authoritarianism in various forms), nor do I critique much less hate Biden for his "socialism" (I think he's entirely within the American version of progressive social compact...doesn't mean I agree with every policy, though), I'm pro-Choice, though would prefer fewer abortions (so no hypocrisy on that one), and I don't think Israel is a "socialist" country either (at least the way far right types conflate authoritarian socialism with "socialism"), though I agree that it has strong roots in socialism, and experimented in various ways with degrees of communism, with kibbutz etc. (I don't find that abhorrent, by and large those experiments were the closest to actually trying it out in the real world...but most Israelis are quite definitely not "communist" at this point, strong capitalistic streak.) That said, my support of Israel has nothing to do with how capitalist or socialist a system they choose for themselves.

But hey, yes, I'm still a Republican.
I'm still distinguishing between that "label" and the delusional state so many of that party are now in.